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Phylodox posted:Again, the Skrulls show no interest in staying. Hmmm, the refugees in an implicitly anti-refugee narrative submissively allow for exile instead of resisting, therefore throwing out refugees isn't bad what a profound insight
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Mar 11, 2019 00:15
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teagone posted:Wouldn't the responsible thing to have done is take the Skrulls in anyways? Even if Earth is a shithole, having a shithole home is better than not having a home. keep in mind, Carol Danvers leaves to help the Krull find a new home and will come back afterwards. She doesn't come back for twenty years. An entire species was living on a lifeboat adrift in space for decades but its ok because earth is a "bad" planet Hell, she probably just left the skrull high and dry in space to go see what Fury wants in the creidts
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Mar 11, 2019 00:16
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Do they? Like, if they had FTL travel there would be no reason to use a portal in Avengers 1 None of the events of either GotG movie or Thor: Ragnarok or Avengers: Infinity War makes sense if they don't have FTL. I mean, unless every planet or system visited in the GotG movies is in the same star system, which doesn't seem like the case. In T:R at the end, the assumption is that the ship they are on in the end is headed to earth, and while they don't make it, they seem to think they will get there soon, not in 1000000 years.And in A:IW, Spider-Man, Iron Man and Dr Strange hitch a ride on that ship of Thano's lackey on earth and end up on Titan. I'm pretty sure neither Asgard nor Titan are in our solar system. So yeah, they have FTL. And technically us earthlings have it too, if you count Dr Strange and the other wizards portal spell thing.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:20
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Mel Mudkiper posted:keep in mind, Carol Danvers leaves to help the Krull find a new home and will come back afterwards. She doesn't come back for twenty years. Or they're numbered in the thousands on a technologically and culturally advanced planet and Carol's still looking for more with a select group of Skrulls on the ship and they're having fun space adventures along the way.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:26
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They flew too far and got stuck up their own rear end. Sadly they will never escape this peril.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:28
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Hmmm, the refugees in an implicitly anti-refugee narrative submissively allow for exile instead of resisting, therefore throwing out refugees isn't bad
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Mar 11, 2019 00:30
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Or they're numbered in the thousands on a technologically and culturally advanced planet and Carol's still looking for more with a select group of Skrulls on the ship and they're having fun space adventures along the way. Maybe these refugees on a makeshift raft are having adventures lol
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Mar 11, 2019 00:30
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:This is exactly what I mean. It is not an anti-refugee film, and it's loving bullshit to say it is. "Refugees should get out" is an interesting kind of pro refugee argument
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Mar 11, 2019 00:31
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Or they're numbered in the thousands on a technologically and culturally advanced planet and Carol's still looking for more with a select group of Skrulls on the ship and they're having fun space adventures along the way. I was under the impression that all the other Skrulls were on the run as well. Where are you getting that they are situated on a technologically/culturally advanced planet? Is that just an assumption?
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Mar 11, 2019 00:32
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Maybe these refugees on a makeshift raft are having adventures Hey, one African asylum seeker had a livestream where they talked about selling their organs in Serbia to finance their journey through Europe there's plenty of adventure out there for refugees
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Mar 11, 2019 00:33
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Mel Mudkiper posted:"Refugees should get out" is an interesting kind of pro refugee argument "Refugees should be protected and are portrayed by dominant powers as the aggressors in unjust genocidal wars" is the obvious message of the film.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:33
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:"Refugees should be protected and are portrayed by dominant powers as the aggressors in unjust genocidal wars" is the obvious message of the film. Refugees should be protected as long as we dont have to protect them here
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Mar 11, 2019 00:35
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teagone posted:I was under the impression that all the other Skrulls were on the run as well. Where are you getting that they are situated on a technologically/culturally advanced planet? Is that just an assumption? I'm guessing that Carol sought a bunch out, found a planet for them when she had found enough that they could no longer be comfortable on the ship, and then continued seeking them out since the Kree are trying to exterminate them. It was not exactly a giant logical leap.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:36
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Hey, one African asylum seeker had a livestream where they talked about selling their organs in Serbia to finance their journey through Europe Hey, what's wrong with an internment camp, camping is fun!
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Mar 11, 2019 00:36
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Hey, what's wrong with an internment camp, camping is fun! This is guilt tripping
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Mar 11, 2019 00:37
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:There's a difference between discussing the Unfortunate Implications of a movie that uses any sort of Sci-Fi/Fantasy allegory, and willfully interpreting those implications as the intent of that allegory. Captain Marvel is pretty clearly a film about "GIRL POWER!" So you could say that it literally sets the cause of feminism back by 25 years.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:37
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CelticPredator posted:This is guilt tripping Well it's certainly a trip!
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Mar 11, 2019 00:38
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Generally when a film ends with a ship flying off into the distance as triumphant music plays you can assume that they are off to have adventures. If you're upset that Captain Marvel had a narrative about refugees that ended on an optimistic, triumphant note, it's you who doesn't want politics in movies.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:39
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Generally when a film ends with a ship flying off into the distance as triumphant music plays you can assume that they are off to have adventures. If you're upset that Captain Marvel had a narrative about refugees that ended on an optimistic, triumphant note, it's you who doesn't want politics in movies. The happy note of them leaving forever and us never having to see them again
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Mar 11, 2019 00:41
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Generally when a film ends with a ship flying off into the distance as triumphant music plays you can assume that they are off to have adventures. If you're upset that Captain Marvel had a narrative about refugees that ended on an optimistic, triumphant note, it's you who doesn't want politics in movies. Seems like false optimism.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:41
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the whole 'anyone who doesn't like marvel is a chud' thing is easily the best marketing move disney has ever pulled
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Mar 11, 2019 00:42
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The things is that the ending doesn't make sense even from in-universe perspective - Skrulls want to go to place where they wont be subjected to genocide. Earth is one of such places and they are right there. Also their only other hideout shown on screen was a devastated arid planet covered in permanent sandstorm where their squatted over literal campfire in ruins. And Earth is supposed to be so terrible that they won't even contemplate to stay? - Skrulls are shapeshifters that can seamlessly blend into any society, which completely sidesteps the whole "need for First Contact" and "human xenophobia" deals. Sure it sucks that they can't walk around in their true forms but it sure is better than being adrift in space or being genocided. - Carol would sure love to stay on earth and catch up to her loved ones and her family instead of going into exile for literally decades. - Nick Fury would sure love to have an enclave of friendly shapesifters around that have knowledge to (among other things) jury-rig human airplane into space-faring vessels in an afternoon. - Earth would be a lot safer if it would be protected by the strongest superhero in case Kree won't believe that all Skrulls are just gone from Earth, or don't really care and just want retribution for humiliation they suffered on Earth. Or if some other random alien race decided to invade Earth for some other unrelated reason. Every hanging plot thread at the end points to Skrull seeking refugee on Earth being the most logical outcome of the story. Except they cant stay on earth. I mean, yeah helping refugees is good and heroic, but they can't stay here after we help them. Why? They just can't, sorry. It's simply not possible. Actually they don't even want to stay here! See, they are leaving already, escorted by our military personnel. I bet they didn't like this place anyway. That's not exactly subtle.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:46
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Here is Spiderhyphenman's Happy Triumphant Ending http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/5c85a1d2b63ba-here-is-spiderhyphenman-s-happy-ending.php
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Mar 11, 2019 00:47
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I'm guessing that Carol sought a bunch out, found a planet for them when she had found enough that they could no longer be comfortable on the ship, and then continued seeking them out since the Kree are trying to exterminate them. It was not exactly a giant logical leap. I suppose, but again, I don't see any logical reason why they couldn't just stay on Earth anyways, even if the planet is technologically/culturally not as advanced. The Skrulls that were on Earth all seemed perfectly fine on the planet. If it were too dangerous for Earth to have the Skrulls cohabit with the human race because they're being hunted by Kree, I can't believe that reasoning since the film presented and explicitly stated that Carol is straight up a one-woman security force.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The happy note of them leaving forever and us never having to see them again
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Mar 11, 2019 00:49
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Mel Mudkiper you must be fun at parties
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Mar 11, 2019 00:51
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:So even if they have no interest in staying here, even if there are hundreds of better places they could go, we should still feel lovely when they leave because that means we don't get to be inclusive? Helping disadvantaged people is not about you feeling good inside, it is about them and they want and need. What you're advocating for is basically the same mentality of a rich idiot white kid going to a developing country and posting an instagram story about how much good they're doing. imagine being such a marvel fanboy that this is the level of mental and moral gymnastics you are willing to through to make "sending refugees into space" not problematic
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Mar 11, 2019 00:52
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So Earth giving up its greatest fighter and galactic defense asset to help collect a scattered people find a desired, distinct home is anti refugee because ??? None of the adults involved want war on their doorstep especially when they have the means and opportunity to go get what they want elsewhere while simultaneously keeping the Kree off their trail. BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Mel Mudkiper you must be fun at parties He's a Steelers fan; of course he isn't
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Mar 11, 2019 00:54
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Adlai Stevenson posted:None of the adults involved want war on their doorstep This is literally saying "don't take in refugees because it makes things more dangerous for us"
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Mar 11, 2019 00:55
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Mel Mudkiper posted:imagine being such a marvel fanboy that this is the level of mental and moral gymnastics you are willing to through to make "sending refugees into space" not problematic Imagine being so pedantic that you accuse people of being anti-refugee for having a differing view of events in a film.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:56
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Refugees welcome (on other planets)
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Mar 11, 2019 00:56
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trash person posted:Imagine being so pedantic that you accuse people of being anti-refugee for having a differing view of events in a film. I've never accused anyone of being anti-refugee, I accused the film of it If you are unable to separate criticism of a product from a personal criticism that speaks to a much deeper level of intellectual poisoning
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Mar 11, 2019 00:57
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Lt. Lizard posted:- Skrulls are shapeshifters that can seamlessly blend into any society, which completely sidesteps the whole "need for First Contact" and "human xenophobia" deals. Sure it sucks that they can't walk around in their true forms but it sure is better than being adrift in space or being genocided. Skrulls do not shapeshift because it's cool. They copy the DNA of someone they see and pass themselves off as them. It is a parasitic defense mechanism that at first makes them appear to be inherently nefarious but we later learn is necessary to their survival. At no point in the film do they do it for a quick joke. Not being able to stay in their natural forms is, absolutely a deal breaker.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:58
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:So even if they have no interest in staying here, even if there are hundreds of better places they could go, we should still feel lovely when they leave because that means we don't get to be inclusive? Where exactly did you get that there are hundreds better places they could go? If there are so many better places around, why did Skrull need a FTL engine stated to be able to travel to different galaxies to find someplace safe? If there are so many better places around, why did it take decades for Captain Marvel to return to Earth and even that was a response to Universe-wide crisis and not "Ok, Skrulls are safe, better go home"? You extrapolate quite a lot from a single sassy remark from a character that was specifically characterized as arrogant and unlikable rear end in a top hat. AAAND EDIT: SpiderHyphenMan posted:Skrulls do not shapeshift because it's cool. They copy the DNA of someone they see and pass themselves off as them. It is a parasitic defense mechanism that at first makes them appear to be inherently nefarious but we later learn is necessary to their survival. At no point in the film do they do it for a quick joke. Not being able to stay in their natural forms is, absolutely a deal breaker. ....They changed forms even more casually than human change clothes. Talos was specifically proud about his ability to be able to pass as other people and considered it a talent. He even jokingly offers to become Fury's boss again. Those are not action of someone that considers changing his shape to be some sort of necessary suffering. There is absolutely nothing in the movie that supports your theory that not being able to stay in their natural forms is a deal breaker. Lt. Lizard fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 11, 2019 |
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Mar 11, 2019 01:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I've never accused anyone of being anti-refugee, I accused the film of it 
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Mar 11, 2019 01:02
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Why didn't Fury page Carol when the Chitauri invaded?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:03
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teagone posted:Why didn't Fury page Carol when the Chitauri invaded? I always assumed that because it takes her months to get back in time for Avengers Endgame he knew she couldn't get there in time to help
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Mar 11, 2019 01:06
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Lt. Lizard posted:Where exactly did you get that there are hundreds better places they could go? If there are so many better places around, why did Skrull need a FTL engine stated to be able to travel to different galaxies to find someplace safe? If there are so many better places around, why did it take decades for Captain Marvel to return to Earth and even that was a response to Universe-wide crisis and not "Ok, Skrulls are safe, better go home"? You extrapolate quite a lot from a single sassy remark from a character that was specifically characterized as arrogant and unlikable rear end in a top hat. Not true, I also extrapolated from the scene where Carol immediately assumes the Blockbuster security guard is familiar with Star Force, and her slightly astounded reaction when she realizes she's on a planet that hasn't established first contact. Also her reaction to the 90s tech, but, well, that doesn't really count now, does it?
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Mar 11, 2019 01:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I always assumed that because it takes her months to get back in time for Avengers Endgame he knew she couldn't get there in time to help That's a good point.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:This is literally saying "don't take in refugees because it makes things more dangerous for us" Does it matter to you that it's the Skrulls who really want to bounce? And that the danger is a civilization bent on eradication that, bar one woman, is vastly superior than everything the planet has? Does the scifi framework of the film that distinguishes our planet as insignificant and weak change any of the allegorical angles for you on this matter? Because personally I see the Kree as war hungry imperialists/Simply America with their soldier worship and the Skrulls as those fleeing in their wake/Affected Peoples with Earth being, say, galactic Sri Lanka. I wonder how the Air Force felt about all that promo time for a movie that fiercely dislikes self mythologizing especially in an army and government context
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Mar 11, 2019 01:09
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