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kloa
Feb 14, 2007




Was hoping for dedicated servers finally :saddowns:

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skull mask mcgee
Nov 14, 2016




:piss:

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR


kloa posted:

Was hoping for dedicated servers finally :saddowns:

There's so much left to implement. I'll be surprised if they get to 1.0 by 2023.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


If dedicated servers happen in U5 they'll be announced with zero warning in the reveal stream / trailer, same way they did lights for U4.

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread



I love Coffee Stain so much.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011



When are they making coal trains a thing?

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


Demiurge4 posted:

When are they making coal trains a thing?

I've been thinking this same thing since I saw the railing video. I mean, I'm glad that they finally worked it out, but seriously give me T2 narrow-gauge rail coffee stain

SPACE HOMOS
Jan 12, 2005



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ25Omg31OA

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


S T O P putting out more cosmetic pieces until we have a way to assemble them which isn't part by part, please

Feliday Melody
May 8, 2021



Does this game have nuclear weapons to fight boss monsters with yet?

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR


Feliday Melody posted:

Does this game have nuclear weapons to fight boss monsters with yet?

nvm, probably get banned. But no, it doesn't.

Mayveena fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 27, 2021

Nukelear v.2
Jun 25, 2004
My optional title text

Feliday Melody posted:

Does this game have nuclear weapons to fight boss monsters with yet?

If they ever do add boss monsters, we would just pave over them

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."


Nukelear v.2 posted:

If they ever do add boss monsters, we would just pave over them

They've said in dev updates that they still have plans to add the big crab monster as a boss at some point, I just don't see how they can really make it fun. To the extent that combat exists in the game it's mostly something to get out of the way so there won't be hogs running around your iron nodes while you're trying to build. More of an annoyance than an engaging mechanic unless they put a lot of effort into revamping things before 1.0

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


LonsomeSon posted:

S T O P putting out more cosmetic pieces until we have a way to assemble them which isn't part by part, please

One thing I noticed in the trailer is that they didn’t just add new stuff but replaced things too. Like the stairs blend into the foundation better or wall conveyor belt allows for proper spacing for mergers/splitters, but yeah, I wish they’d take a que or two from the modding community implement stuff like the SMART builder or the procedurally generated builder based on player habits.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ


They've previously said they're working on making the building system better and I will be genuinely surprised if the next update just adds more pieces to be built in the current way. To build everything shown using the current system would require a ridiculous number of new buildables.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



Also, once again, modeling and designing new art assets is an entirely different part of a development team from designing and implementing a new building system.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ


I need help: I keep stalling out when I get to tier 4 and onwards.
My base produces the following and dumps them in storages: biofuel, iron plates, reinforced plates, rods, screws, rotors, cable, wire, modular frames, copper sheets, concrete, steel pipe and steel beams.
Once I need resources that aren't local to my starting base (iron, copper, limestone) I sort of flounder until I give up. I never know what kind of rates to shoot for, either.

Do you produce everything centrally, or what kind of remote/satellite facilities do you make?

I feel like I need some kind of example of what works so I can try it out and find a style that works for me.

Edit: for example in Factorio I can set myself the goal of X of each science pack per second, but I have no idea what rate I should be making stuff in Satisfactory

Edit 2: I really enjoy the experience of designing and building a factory once I know what I need to make and how much of it, I just have no loving idea how to work out that target in the first place

GotLag fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Aug 30, 2021

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES




Exciting Lemon

Satisfactory is really bad at making you want to do good ratios when they’re not really important. No resource pressure, no time pressure, only elegance pressure.

Just set up one or two of simple assembly and belt/truck/train it back to where you need it for the next tier. Revisit it a few hours later when you’ve got all the better buildings and belts to make your clean ratiod design. Eg you'll spend hours of time building a beautiful quartz oscillator factory or something that will provide 240/min and realize that for the next six hours you’d have been good with 20/min. You can set up lots of little basic factories quick do I recommend focusing on that in the early and mid game.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Obviously there's no one right answer, but for me generally, once I start getting into this stage I build factory blocks dedicated to producing a particular end product. So I'll start from the building producing the actual final recipe for an elevator component or what have you, then build enough of the previous buildings along the line to satisfy it, and so on back until the whole block is just taking in raw materials (usually bars that I smelt at the miners, but that gets more complicated with later-game materials). I have separate production streams for space elevator components to the ones supplying my construction materials, so I don't have to worry about them eating into each other.

In tier four I'll probably have these blocks all being in or near my initial central factory, but once trains are unlocked and I have the capacity to easily go all over the map, I prefer to find sites reasonably close to all the resources needed to product something and just send the final product all the way back to my storage hub or space elevator.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Just repeating what I keep saying: Start from a goal, and build backwards from it.
E.g. build two manufacturers making Heavy Modular Frame. Then build all the assemblers needed to make the inputs for those manufacturers. Then supply those assemblers, and so on, until you get to raw materials.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


GotLag posted:

Once I need resources that aren't local to my starting base (iron, copper, limestone) I sort of flounder until I give up. I never know what kind of rates to shoot for, either.

Do you produce everything centrally, or what kind of remote/satellite facilities do you make?

Edit 2: I really enjoy the experience of designing and building a factory once I know what I need to make and how much of it, I just have no loving idea how to work out that target in the first place

Since you really enjoy building factories I would say try the distributed factory style, which I also like to do. When you want to build Thing, explore the map and try to find a good place for a Thing-factory. (Or probably a factory producing 2 or more closely-related Things that have big overlap in resources.)

For tiers 4-6, a "good location" is one where you have the resources locally and isn't too far away from your home base. Tier 7+ that changes because stuff needs resources that aren't found in the same location, the game becomes more about logistics & transport.

Early on you don't care too much about rates, because you aren't using those items for more stuff yet. They are components to build machines, or stuff you shove in the Hub for unlocks. Do 1-2 manufacturers, 2 assemblers, or 4 constructors for each end product if you have no other data. You can always scale up later. The nice thing about building independent satellite factories is that it's much easier to revamp them, or even delete the whole thing and repurpose the location, because they're more self-contained. Redoing 100% of a factory is easier than redoing 50% of a factory.


So a concrete example: one of the first products that's at all "hard" is computers. You need to set up oil for plastic, and it needs at minimum iron & copper (plus caterium and/or quartz if you have alt recipes). There are only a few places where those resources are at all "close". the east and west ends of the canyon are good

When I built my first computer factory, I picked a location that also had caterium because I was using Caterium Circuit Boards, and also produced HS Connectors. It was super-wasteful on oil because I didn't have good oil alt recipes yet, but that's another thing: don't be afraid to be wasteful early. Be efficient when you have bigger goals. I had coke steel though, so I used some waste coke for steel to supply my rail-building activities.


Additional notes:
1. Use the production calculator. The best thing about distributed smaller factories is that each one fits in a comprehensible production diagram.
2. As you scale up, you will need multiple levels of satellites feeding the high-tier factories.
3. Hope you line building trains, because this style means going into trains pretty quickly.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



GotLag posted:

Once I need resources that aren't local to my starting base (iron, copper, limestone) I sort of flounder until I give up. I never know what kind of rates to shoot for, either.

This is exactly why it is an astoundingly bad design decision to make trains such a late game technology and make them so resource intensive.

There is no elegant way to get distant resources to your base early on. It's the goofy truck or belt spaghetti until 3/4 through the game.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


Even if they didn’t want to do a second set of train assets to give me the T2 steam train, for which watering stations (or an extra fluid wagon of water) would be needed on longer hauls, they could just give us a set of on-Foundation-buildable tracks which replace the freeform autopilot-path-drawing function on vehicle self-driving, so we could integrate tractor shipments of intermediate goods with our factory floors without just having to leave raceways of arbitrary size and hope for the best (meaning, never do this and instead add to your conveyor stacks).

I get that it’s a non-trivial programming task to hack the existing vehicle-self-drive and train path finding systems together, but it seems like some way to lock wheeled vehicles onto built paths without needing to build a giant Foundation no-go box around the truck terminal and then painstakingly record the turn-around procedure could fill the pre-train bulk logistics need we keep tripping over here, make vehicles cool (or non-garbage anyway) again (for the first time?), and provide opportunity for some pretty dope cosmetic stuff, with delivery vehicles driving through glassed-in tubes or whatnot, through production floors. Surely someone at Coffee Stain is smart enough to have thought of this, if I have!

I hope that doesn’t mean they looked into it and something about the systems made it unworkable.

SuddenlyAri
Feb 24, 2019

Tinfoil Hat Society
Nyx Destroyer


I'm weirdly addicted to this game.

Spent countless hours redesigning my poo poo layout.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


LonsomeSon posted:

I get that it’s a non-trivial programming task to hack the existing vehicle-self-drive and train path finding systems together, but it seems like some way to lock wheeled vehicles onto built paths without needing to build a giant Foundation no-go box around the truck terminal and then painstakingly record the turn-around procedure could fill the pre-train bulk logistics need we keep tripping over here, make vehicles cool (or non-garbage anyway) again (for the first time?),

Hmmmm. Building road for vehicles isn't a great replacement IMO, even if it came with automatic vehicle guidance. Building a KM of foundation road is just as much work as building a KM of conveyor.

What they need is a better set of tools to manage the existing vehicle paths. Only delete node and change wait time is butt. The micromanage mod can move the path nodes around, they're really a normal object with no hitbox. If the path nodes were directly place-able or had a special tool for adding and manipulating them, it would be vastly easier to make paths.

Also it would be great if you could set a second vehicle to use a path, or copy a path onto another vehicle so you could use a section of it without having to re-record stuff.


However I really like the idea of doing automatic control for the truck stations in particular. You're on to something talking about boxing in the truck stations, because TBQH it's the terminals that are the biggest pain in the rear end. Driving from A to B is pretty easy as long as you drive the route once to scout it first.

So my proposal would be that truck stations come with an integrated foundation base, and have 4 "ports" that you can set for in and out. When the truck's autopilot hits the location for "in", it drives an automatic docking maneuver and loads or unloads. Then goes to the "out" location and goes back to normal pathfinding. That way you could have pre-made patterns for tight u-turns or 3-point turns that the truck would always drive perfectly. (Also it would look much cooler because the truck would actually stop at the right location for the crane to hit it.)

quote:

integrate tractor shipments of intermediate goods with our factory floors without just having to leave raceways of arbitrary size

and provide opportunity for some pretty dope cosmetic stuff, with delivery vehicles driving through glassed-in tubes or whatnot, through production floors. Surely someone at Coffee Stain is smart enough to have thought of this, if I have!

And this bit I'd handle by making a mini-depot that was sized for the factory cart. Put it in the ticket shop with the cart, make carts useful.

GotLag
Jul 17, 2005

食べちゃダメだよ


Manager Hoyden posted:

This is exactly why it is an astoundingly bad design decision to make trains such a late game technology and make them so resource intensive.

There is no elegant way to get distant resources to your base early on. It's the goofy truck or belt spaghetti until 3/4 through the game.

Good news, this can be fixed!

I've put together some recipe patches for ContentLib, just download these files and put them in FactoryGame/Configs/RecipePatches in your install folder (you'll need to create the RecipePatches folder yourself).

These unlock the locomotive, track and station with Advanced Steel Production at tier 4, and the platforms and freight wagon with Logistics Mk.3, also at tier 4. The recipes are the same except all the computers have been replaced with AI limiters so you don't need plastics to build them.

I would have preferred to patch the monorail milestone to move it to tier 4 but the documentation for ContentLib sucks rear end.

Nukelear v.2
Jun 25, 2004
My optional title text

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

They've said in dev updates that they still have plans to add the big crab monster as a boss at some point, I just don't see how they can really make it fun. To the extent that combat exists in the game it's mostly something to get out of the way so there won't be hogs running around your iron nodes while you're trying to build. More of an annoyance than an engaging mechanic unless they put a lot of effort into revamping things before 1.0

Didn't know they were actually planning that, I dig it, I like having goals. If they follow their usual pattern of having mobs guard resource, having a boss sit on a motherload of rich concentrated resources would be an awesome but not mandatory reward. Probably just need to build some sort of depleted uranium ammo from the nuclear line to kill it so it feels suitably end game.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!


DU spike ammo, for the rebar gun

SkunkDuster
Jul 15, 2005






Might seem a little on the cheating side, but I use the Teleporter and Teleport Items mods. I'm more interested in building factories than running conveyor belts all over the map and shooting around in hypertubes, so these mods let me avoid the stuff I consider tedious and get right to building factories.

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




I feel like the odd person out here, because i loving love conveyor spaghetti, and kinda specifically try to only build my production on natural terrain (fuel generators excluded because otherwise i'd never have enough area).



The one thing I want though is a conveyor upgrade to mk6 or something that could handle a fully overclocked mk3 miner on a pure node output.

SkunkDuster
Jul 15, 2005






I'd like to see larger foundations if it would cut down on RAM and CPU usage. Like 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, 128x128 on up to 1024x1024.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


SkunkDuster posted:

I'd like to see larger foundations if it would cut down on RAM and CPU usage. Like 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, 128x128 on up to 1024x1024.

A static object like a foundation or wall does almost nothing to the CPU & memory. In some ways having more variations of foundation would be worse: it's faster for the game engine to populate the world with 100 of the same thing than 10 different things.

And you can do a whole lot of foundations for the CPU cost of one belt, where the game has to keep track of what items are on it and exchange data with the stuff it connects to. Plus a foundation is effectively zero cost when you're far away, while the game still has to chew on all the active objects in the entire world.


I've thrown out larger-size foundations as a way to make building them faster, but really a basic version of Smart in the stock game would be better in every way.

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVVmTAZCHJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0gWGnm2bM

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003



I'm trying to like trains but I'm finding them weirdly unreliable. I have a bunch of resource delivery lines all terminating in a single in-line row of stations, with a locomotive on each end of the trains. Each train will work just fine and dandy for a while (could be hours, could be 15 minutes) but then it'll decide to stop somewhere on the track with an "unable to reach next stop" error. I have to turn autopilot off, run along the track to the train, manually drive it to the end station, and turn autopilot back on to get it running again, after which it'll work for another random amount of time. Any idea what my problem could be here?

Edit: Okay wait I may have fixed it. After looking at it a bit, I think what's happening is the train AI sometimes has a brain fart and turns onto the wrong track when leaving the main station, and there's no path from that section of track to the branch that it actually wants to go to so it just gives up. I added a loop at the end of the main station's track, so now a train can path from any branch to any other branch by passing through that station. Kind of wonky but at least it takes care of itself now.

Edit2: Ah gently caress I see what was happening. When two trains are using their magic ghost powers to phase through each other, and they happen to go through a switch in the track at the same time, both trains will end up going the same way even if they intended to take separate branches.

Edit3: Aaaagg gently caress the loop causes trains to flip around whenever they go through it, the pain never ends

Triarii fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 2, 2021

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Triarii posted:

I'm trying to like trains but I'm finding them weirdly unreliable. I have a bunch of resource delivery lines all terminating in a single in-line row of stations, with a locomotive on each end of the trains. Each train will work just fine and dandy for a while (could be hours, could be 15 minutes) but then it'll decide to stop somewhere on the track with an "unable to reach next stop" error. I have to turn autopilot off, run along the track to the train, manually drive it to the end station, and turn autopilot back on to get it running again, after which it'll work for another random amount of time. Any idea what my problem could be here?

#1: Do you, anywhere in your world, have a back-to-back junction? IE a junction where the rail splits in two on both sides with no segment between, making an 'X'? The game doesn't stop you from building that junction, and it works fine for player trains. But it gives the AI pathfinding fits, for dumb but hard to fix reasons. Avoid them at all costs.

Also, there are ways to gently caress up your network with mistakes that are more clearly errors, but can be hard to spot without a lot of close examination (or looking with the online map). I figured out a problem for a guy on reddit who'd built rail overlapping the built-in rail of a station and it was giving his train fits.


#2: Are you building additional rail elsewhere in the world when this happens? The rail system has pathfinding which I believe keeps a path cached on each AI train. And it isn't always perfect at updating that cache as the rail network changes.

When I'm building fiddly bits of rail like tight turns and complicated junctions, which will probably require lots of place-delete-place-delete to try to get the poo poo lined up, I try to build it separately from everything else. That might involve cutting the rail a fair distance on either side of where I'm planning to rebuild. And connecting it up at the end still might make trains go braindead... but you only have to fix them once.


When you have a train that gets the unable to reach next stop message, IMO it's usually best to dismantle all the locomotives on that train. You can leave the cargo cars. That effectively deletes the "train" unit, its pathfinding cache, and everything else that might be hosed up. Then replace the locos and it'll be good.


edit

Triarii posted:

Edit2: Ah gently caress I see what was happening. When two trains are using their magic ghost powers to phase through each other, and they happen to go through a switch in the track at the same time, both trains will end up going the same way even if they intended to take separate branches.

Edit3: Aaaagg gently caress the loop causes trains to flip around whenever they go through it, the pain never ends

Oh yep that'll do it too. If you have a busy station you need to space out the junctions, and it's best to have one-way flow to reduce the overlaps.

Klyith fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Sep 2, 2021

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003



I'm not seeing how to completely avoid the issue unless you have literally no junctions, and just make every track a straight point-to-point. Otherwise it's just a matter of time until two trains happen to hit a junction at the same time and one ends up on the wrong track. The only solution I can think of is to make every train single-headed and ensure that there are no dead ends anywhere in the track network, either by connecting all your stations together in big loops or adding a small end loop at each end station.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Triarii posted:

I'm not seeing how to completely avoid the issue unless you have literally no junctions, and just make every track a straight point-to-point. Otherwise it's just a matter of time until two trains happen to hit a junction at the same time and one ends up on the wrong track. The only solution I can think of is to make every train single-headed and ensure that there are no dead ends anywhere in the track network, either by connecting all your stations together in big loops or adding a small end loop at each end station.

I'm not sure exactly when the bug happens, but it's a lot more restricted circumstances than just 2 trains using the junction at the same time. Maybe just the 2 lead engines of the train. So if you run half as many trains with more cargo cars, you more than double the time between overlaps. One-way tracks also make trains occupying the same space much less frequent. So that can make the "matter of time" into a pretty long wait.


But the main solution is that trains will eventually have collision, or otherwise not pass through each other. So it's an early access type bug where they're not bothering to fix it because future design will remove it from a different direction.

necrotic
Aug 1, 2005
I owe my brother big time for this!

Rail signals are supposed to arrive in the next update, I imagine trains will collide with that change. Or maybe they never will and signals will just be for fixing the switch issues.

Triarii
Jun 14, 2003



Yeah, signals would solve the issue. And I imagine they'd need to add signals anyway if they're going to do collision or it would just be mayhem.

Anyway, I made all my trains one-directional and added loops to the end of each station's track and things seem to be working out. I'll just enjoy how much the rail network is simplified by ghost trains for now.

https://i.imgur.com/Acrkl5D.mp4

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Voxx
Jul 28, 2009

I'll give 'em a hold
and a break to breathe
And if they can't play nice
I won't play with 'em at all


New devlog about building changes in update 5. notably includes a new feature that lets you mass build up to 10 of foundations, ramps, walls, roofs, fences/railings,pillars and beams in a line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZGq-W7r2sk

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