|
What Thotmx needs right now is to switch gears to research on every planet that isn't making warships right now, and beeline Gravitic Fields -> Magneto Gravitics for the shield3/planetshield/dissapator (inertial stabilizer and better miniaturization is nothing to sneeze at either), change stockpiled production to models that include these advances in their design in order to have a working fleet,. Then, follow up with computer and force field techs to get their respective spy bonuses. You are very much in this mess because of espionage, and you need those boosts ASAP. Having even more spies in addition to this once your fleet is up wouldn't be bad, either. Finally, grab the sociology tech. The relations bonus to other empires will help avoid getting dogpiled, and the assimilation building will help you when you go on the offensive. I also suggest sending the cheapest ship you have to the nearest Mrrshan system and wait for them to attack you there to see what their ships are like. Also: Goddamn, those Sakkra are what I was talking about when I said they can get ridiculous. You are really lucky they were boxed in by those black holes.
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 16:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 08:56 |
|
|
I'd guess the Silicoid spying is probably the Darlok framing the Silicoid, unless the Darlok already had Tritanium Armor.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 17:52
|
|
|
Martian posted:I'd guess the Silicoid spying is probably the Darlok framing the Silicoid, unless the Darlok already had Tritanium Armor. The Darlock already stole Tritanium Armor shortly after first contact, so it was most likely the Silicoids.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
They look like rocks Their cover is perfect
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 21:54
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:They look like rocks The pet rock fad was a Silicoid black op.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2019 15:52
|
|
|
War Is Upon UsOlesh posted:push out the cruisers you're already building and cap out command points, fortify any place that the Mrrshans can actually reach (rush buying Missile Bases as needed), and do a hard research push up to Class III shields and maybe another computer upgrade. This serves to both provide some credible level of durability to the ships you're fielding as well as miniaturizing Mass Drivers to provide extra punch (via the Auto Fire upgrade). Regular (non-PD) Mass Drivers can shoot down missiles and fighters, so bringing a mix of Heavy Mount and regular Mass Drivers is recommended. Once you have the upgrades you want, having existing ships you can refit is much faster than building completely new designs from scratch, and your existing ships will probably be higher level. mydad posted:switch gears to research on every planet that isn't making warships right now, and beeline Gravitic Fields -> Magneto Gravitics for the shield3/planetshield/dissapator (inertial stabilizer and better miniaturization is nothing to sneeze at either), change stockpiled production to models that include these advances in their design in order to have a working fleet,. Then, follow up with computer and force field techs to get their respective spy bonuses. You are very much in this mess because of espionage, and you need those boosts ASAP. Having even more spies in addition to this once your fleet is up wouldn't be bad, either. Finally, grab the sociology tech. The relations bonus to other empires will help avoid getting dogpiled, and the assimilation building will help you when you go on the offensive. These similar but not identical statements pretty well sum up the advice of the thread. I'm going to take the risky step of delaying following the advice of more experienced readers in this case though. I think there's something more important to do.  We have increased research significantly, and to get more I want to produce the recently-acquired Holo Simulators and Planetary Supercomputers on as many planets as possible. Once our economy gets that boost, we can see to the business of teching up much more efficiently, and also deal with whatever needs the war demands. The High Council Convenes Everyone abstains. Noncommittal fools. We play the game by voting Sauron, even though I don't think it has as much effect in this game.  What's this? Friendship??  Lol. We're not handing over the treasury to the weakest race in the galaxy. "You will pay for that decision, foolish TechnoGeeks dog!" I ... do not think so. You'd think this means a declaration of war - but it was idle bluster, at least for now. Relations remain Amiable. Hostilities Commence So basically the Mrrshan have no problems shooting down our missiles, and the Antarans destroyed Irra as expected. I think the felines will smash our small planets in Lerion, but I hope and expect to stop them from coming much further  We grab the artifacts planet on the other end of things.  Next turn, I focused fire on the Mrrshan frigates and that worked a little better. We lost two more of our Raiders, but also took down two of theirs. This did not stop us from losing a planet though, as several transports came in.  This came in as well. I think it looks rather like a bomb, but there's no good reason not to add it to our cruiser designs. The resulting design has less firepower - 2 standard mass drivers along with two heavies, instead of 4 heavies from before. But it should be harder for the Mrrshan to hit - they're deploying more beams than missiles it seems, so it appears worth it to me.  Going for the better shielding as suggested. Most of our Holo-Sims and research computers are up, so it's time to get those cruisers out there and show the felines we won't be pushed around this easily. I authorize the treasury to release more funds than usual to get that done more quickly. SD 3518.2 - Lerion III is taken. My remaining five Raiders focus fire on their destroyer, but it is a disaster. Their big ships shoot down all but one of our missiles.  This, on the other hand, is quite welcome news. Our last colony ship for the time being - and for quite a while I imagine. The Meklar sent an escorted colony ship to Thesbia, so we lose that one. It wasn't nearly as good anyway. We still have other rich systems to nab, but we are otherwhise occupied. The Meklar also warn us to 'Beware'. If they expand, it'll be either through us or the Alkari. Both races steadfastly refuse any diplomatic agreements. Research has ballooned to twice what it was a few turns ago at nearly 400 RP per. We have only three planets building cruisers right now, with the homeworld working on upgrading to a battlestation. But the next cycle, two more planets in Bogina begin laying down warships, and the first Interdictor is completed. SD 3518.4 I think it took five whole turns for our last research project, so we turn to Ion Fission for the shield capacitors. Meanwhile, any new cruisers to come out now will have improved Class III Shielding, which is what the Mrrshan ships had. The latest version for now costs 2.7% more, but has a third heavy mass driver and auto-fire modifications on the two standard ones.  SD 3518.6 Guh. Since they are repulsive, we can do nothing about this. However, GNN reports that they were also 'first on the scene to bring you this headline':  The Mrrshan might disagree, but cool. I assume by 'first on the scene' they mean 'only one on the scene' as they culled this vital data from the loud pronouncements every race makes whenever they add a system. But I'll still take the endorsement.  The Sakkra relations bar hasn't moved an inch from what I can tell.   Going mostly just for the cheap one here. Took a whopping three years to get those shield capacitors in, and this should come at least as fast.  Made some significant changes here. Down to 2 & 2 on the weapons again, and I exchanged the ECM Jammer for the Shield Capacitors. I just can't fit everything on and have any significant amount of weaponry on a cruiser hull. I don't think we're at the point where I can afford to go up to the battleship level yet - they take too long to construct. So the idea is that if they go MIRV their missiles won't do much against our shields, and if they don't they hopefully won't have enough ordnance to make a big difference. This is the design I want to try to counterattack with.  This is the first time I've ever seen the Refit screen. It brings up all your ships in orbit. We've got one Interdictor in position and another en route that will need the treatment. The Raiders will get scrapped as soon as we need to command points.  Selecting the cruiser, this comes up. Apparently you can only refit to the same size hull. What a silly limitation :P. Then it is added to the planetary build queue once I select the right design. I'm told it will require 62 industry to make the adjustments. That's about one-ninth of a new ship. I think it's a little cheap, but I'm not complaining. Not only have the Mrrshan not pressed their attacks, but feline ships have been spotted heading upwards towards Umm. It's not that I'm unsure, they are literally going to the Umm system, which is Silicoid. And the Antarans just vanished after smacking Irra out of existence. So it's been quiet for us while we go about the business of preparing retributions. ** Don't Be Dumb Like Me Tip: When redesigning like this, be sure to replace all the old designs in the planetary build queue. I almost didn't notice that the several systems now working on them were all building 'old' Interdictors, which would then have needed to be refit once finished. SD 3518.9 - Silicoid spy steals Troop Pods. Ok, I think I need better espionage tech next.  Starting to get into new technologies that we haven't seen before. ** Cyber-Security Link - +10% to all spy rolls. That's why I'm getting it, to boost our agents some more. ** Emissions Guidance System - For a hefty price (4x cost and size), missiles that penetrate the shields can bypass armor and apply all their damage to the engines of a target. ** Rangemaster Unit - Range is thirded for the chance to hit calculations only. Makes using heavy beam weapons more viable I would think, but since we're using mass drivers it's kind of irrelevant. This is a bit expensive, but we're cranking out enough RP that it won't be much of a delay.  Ok, now I'm pissed. They also killed one of our spies to get it done.  The Alkari asked for a tribute again. And gave us the same pointless bluster when we refused. Then this.  This is annoying. I rush-jobbed an Interdictor here, but then the Star Base was blown up so I can't build it. Got replaced automatically with Trade Goods by the game, and now I can't make that money go to anything else. I'd much prefer it just auto-cancelled the purchase. Arghzorz. Then I get the 'trade goods is above an item, do you want to delete before exiting', I say yes, and it does so. So I can't change it after I purchase it, but I can change it? I'm confused, game.  Didn't do anything, but still - jerks. We are now at war with two races. More protected on the Mrrshan side, but I think they are still the most dangerous and want to focus there. And the same turn, a freighter transport arrived at Xiphias. The citizen was killed - but the freighters weren't blown up. So ... how exactly did the blockade kill them again? Why not just make me lose the freighters??  We'll end on this note - a nice promotion for one of my most important leaders. Within the next year I think we'll be ready to start throwing our weight around. Also: am I screwing up by having a full roster of domestic leaders? It's been a long time since a military one even became available - do I need to keep an open spot for each??
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 02:07
|
|
|
In a game like this, whenever a non-Darlok spy does anything, just assume it's the Darloks framing someone else. Silicoids steal troop pods? Darloks. Meklar destroy star base? DARLOKS! Darloks bomb Xiphias? Oh you'd better believe that's the work of a Darlok. When I play I usually leave the last leader slot open for both types until a really good fourth comes along, though I admit I have no idea if that's the best play or not.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 02:46
|
|
|
Glassing Darlok planets never goes out of fashion.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 02:47
|
|
|
quote:But it should be harder for the Mrrshan to hit - they're deploying more beams than missiles it seems, so it appears worth it to me. Let's not forget that Inertial Stabilizer also gives you +25 missile evasion. It's helpful! As a general rule, remember, the ideal goal for protection against beams is for (their Beam Attack - your Beam Defense) to equal -50 or less. The net effect is more significant when you're pushing someone from 0 to -50 (50% to 10% hit chance) than you do from +50 to 0 (90% to 50%). You get more mileage out of your ships when you tailor them to your enemies. Heavy Mount weapons don't just have greater range, they also have much more favorable drop-off. You generally start combat at around maximum range for normal weapons, which do 35% of their listed maximum damage at that range (21-23 squares). Obviously this isn't an issue for Mass Drivers or other weapons with no range dissipation, but at that same range Heavy Mount weapons are running with a 1.2x multiplier, down from their point blank 1.5x. If you were using regular, dissipating beams, your Heavy Mounts would be doing 3-4x the damage per cannon at max normal range compared to the normal mount versions, and this is all before shields come into play. Ship design is a weird balancing act where the correct decision is, ultimately, "whatever works". As long as you aren't deliberately shooting yourself in the foot by building a design which is outright ineffectual against your enemies (for example, relying on heavily miniaturized laser cannons vs anyone with Class III Shields or better), it's not hard to come up with a design more efficient than what the AI fields. That being said, my general ship design at this point would be something along the lines of: quote:Class III Shields, best Computer available I like bombs instead of missiles to compensate for ground installations. Beam damage against planets is halved before shields, so heavy Mass Drivers do 9 damage, divided by 2 (and rounded down) to 4. Ground installations are protected both by any planetary shields present and the best shield technology available (so no planetary shields and Class III researched means that even heavy mount Mass Drivers only do 1 damage to a planet). Missiles and bombs do full damage, but I've run out of missiles before clearing defenders/planetary installations plenty of times. Putting a bomb or two on every ship just ensures that you won't have to spend a turn retreating and restocking missiles to actually break through, say, a missile base under a planetary shield. Additional notes on Rangemaster Unit - this system only affects the hit chance reduction based on distance. It has no effect on damage drop-off due to distance. It's hard to say exactly how much benefit this system actually provides, except that Battle Scanners are superior in every way - a flat +50 at all ranges is better than a 2/3rd reduction in range penalties, even at max range with Heavy Mount weapons.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 03:46
|
|
|
Getting a decent leader is totally random. If you feel you have one that is completely useless and not contributing anything, definitely go for it. But if all are moderately useful then no real reason to - leaders are completely random, and you may or may not get someone useful for the rest of the game. You may get someone quick - particularly if you have a leader that has a bonus of gettign other ones to show up. Or you may not get one for 200 turns.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 03:46
|
|
|
You had some really bad luck with the neighbors this time. I don't remember if it was early in this thread or the other one, but I made a comment about how the Mrrshan despite their lack of economic prowess were one of the only races I'm scared of in MOO2, and this is why. Relatedly, one reason why AIs tend to be lower than you on Buildings is that they build ships way over their command point allotment (especially transports), and so are designed to not build as much infrastructure to keep their maintenance down. You can see if you capture planets intact that they basically only put down farms and auto-production/research buildings until later in the game. The Darloks helping themselves to your tech was rough too. It reminds me of a MOO2 stream one of the Loading Ready Run guys did a few years ago; he went all-in on research and got everything stolen, and then chain-DoWed after refusing some demands. At least with a big galaxy you have room to work with (plus you're a more-balanced and better race) so I think you're going to be fine this time.  Thotimx posted:Also: am I screwing up by having a full roster of domestic leaders? It's been a long time since a military one even became available - do I need to keep an open spot for each?? Yes, leaders won't offer their services if you don't have a blank spot open. The reason is that the leader needs to be able to be waiting for you for 30 turns, and if all 4 slots are taken they can't. I don't know if you've triggered it before, but there's a leader you can get guaranteed in-game, but if you have all 4 captain slots full you'll get an alternate message and don't get a chance to recruit them. Edit: Whoops, it's late and I almost forgot: I usually don't go ham on ship specials until they're miniaturized a bit. I think it's better to stick with one field for a tier or two beyond the tech you want (especially now that you're pulling in so many RPs) so the cost and space go down. Bonus points if the special is in the same field as your guns: you should be able to fit a lot more Mass Drivers on a ship as well if you stick with it beyond Inertial Stabilizer. Wayne fucked around with this message at 06:40 on May 18, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 06:38
|
|
|
Thotimx posted:Also: am I screwing up by having a full roster of domestic leaders? It's been a long time since a military one even became available - do I need to keep an open spot for each?? Depends, do you have leaders with only 1 or 2 bonuses? The late game has a bunch of leaders with 5 (or other absurd things that they bring with them), and I'm going to go against the grain here and say you're more or less bound to get one or two of these as things progress.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2019 10:15
|
|
|
CounterAttack The galaxy is getting frisky. Here's the left side, where five different empires come together. A single Darlok frigate continues to ineffectually bomb Xiphias II.  On the right, dueling invasions with the cats and rocks. That's a Silicoid battleship with several transports headed to Tais, while more Mrrshan ships continue dripping towards Umm. We don't have the scanner range to see exactly what's going on, but those two are decidedly not getting along.  Our population is still growing, but more slowly. Labor Divison ** Total: 119M (+19M) ** Farming: 28M - 23.5% ** Industry: 52M - 43.7% ** Research: 39M - 32.8% The need for farmers has continued to decline with the Holo-Simulators making everyone all happy and productive. Industry is still the largest field, but the bigger worlds are spending as much effort in Research as they are in the factories, feeding our technological push.  That's working well, as we appear to have decisively left the squabbling malcontents to our galactic right behind when it comes to cool toys.  That fight has decimated their militaries for the moment, leaving the Sakkra as the current power in the galaxy. Will these use that strength? And against whom? Meanwhile we are all of a sudden a credible second here. In Buildings and the overall comparison, we are the runaway leaders with nobody above about half of our power. That's a very strong long-term indicator. Now it's time to turn that potential strength into practical benefit, and teach the galaxy that the TechnoGeeks will not be stopped. Our profit margin is down to just a third, but it is enough. I haven't been quite careful enough on limiting construction with smaller planets, and it's starting to catch up to me a bit.  It's tempting to turn and face the Darloks with the Mrrshan otherwhise occupied. But I don't think it's the wise play in the long run. They can have our outlying system for the moment. Let's not make the traditional military mistake of fighting on two fronts at once - and losing them both.  They will pay for that. Eventually. Our next task is Genetic Engineering. It's as cheap as anything right now for us. Microbiotics is a 25% population growth boost across the board, while Telepathic Training gives 5% bonus to our spies. A couple of good benefits there. SD 3519.6 - Darloks and Sakkra are now at war again. Good news as far as I'm concerned. Next turn, the Darloks move closer, taking Yarrow.  Terraforming is super-tempting, but our profitability continues to shrink these days. The Planetary Stock Exchange is the next step after the Spaceport, doubling revenues everywhere we have one. For a cost of course. With the military buildup wrapping up for the moment, it's a good time to snag them and level up our income. SD 3519.9 - Peace between Darlok and Sakkra. Grrr. I'm also told that '1 settler arrived at Yarrow Prime'. Even though we don't control it anymore. I hope the Darloks were kind enough to kill them quickly. Next turn, I'm ready to go on the attack ... but I didn't notice that Lerion is actually out of range for us. Grrr. So an Outpost Ship is worked up. Meanwhile the Antarans are back, but not for us.  Pretty cool looking building.  We're reaching the point where I pretty much want everything. In every field. But I've gotta go Terraforming next. Step by step, we can eventually transform any non-toxic world into a terran one now. If they start barren, it will take several processes, each one requiring 250 industry. So it's fairly cost-intensive, but the overall potential of the empire will skyrocket. Setting up an outpost in nearby Qatar, the fleet heads to Lerion. Now I need a few transports to reclaim that territory. I've been building barracks here and there the past several turns; previously I only had the one on Mentar II.  Just before this, the Council met again. 60 total votes, Sakkra and us are still tied with 13 each. The Alkari cast their 3 in our favor, but everyone else still abstained. Nobody wants to elect a High Master. Battle of Lerion WARNING: This is almost 10 minutes long. The Mrrshan have fortified both planets in Lerion, though there are no fleet ships about. This should be fun. Cut it off partway through, because it was already getting real boring. That whole thing about it being hard to attack planets with beam weapons is proving itself.  I approve this model terraformer.  Molecular Compression gives me multiple valuable things. Range boosts to help with offensive operations, better missiles for our defenses, and the atmospheric renewer will reduce pollution more.  It's finally time to settle the long-ignored Unuk system. I don't think anyone else can reach it. We'll eventually find out if I'm wrong. Lerion II Invasion Superior technology at work. We had a slight numerical advantadge going in, with the Mrrshan on the defense. Pretty even in that respect, but we took only a quarter of their casualties.  Time to cleanup a couple remaining inexpensive advances. I'd like ADC for repairing our attacking fleets.  We also colonize the Wolf system, where we discover that we've invented so much crap that the font has to be miniaturized to fit all the options in.  It'll be a pleasure to genocide you, BugFace.  Stick it where the sun don't shine, pal. And the Antarans are back, with interest - a destroyer and four frigates. They are headed to Vela, where our fleet will meet them. We don't have any defenses up there - we've gotten close a few times, but always moved the stockpiled industry into some other task. And it's Poor, which is my other excuse.  That's everybody. The Klackons aren't as big as us, but believe it or not they have better technology and rank as by far our top rival.  All the better to adorn our trophy room with. They have: ** Unification ** Uncreative ** Large/Rich HW ** +1 Food Production ** +2 Industrial Production They will make some excellent drones ... We've lost some territory, but the bleeding appears to have been stopped on all fronts. Mostly because nobody dares assault our fortified positions, save the Antarans. With the Mrrshan and Silicoid still locked in their destructive conflict that is going nowhere and gettin' there fast, it seems the thing to do is to continue pushing into their territory until we are stopped or we take everything we want.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2019 20:53
|
|
|
Wayne posted:You had some really bad luck with the neighbors this time. Heh, not as bad as the first one! Thanks for the tip about AI buildings - makes sense and I need to put less stock in that from now on. Wayne posted:, leaders won't offer their services if you don't have a blank spot open. The reason is that the leader needs to be able to be waiting for you for 30 turns, and if all 4 slots are taken they can't. I don't know if you've triggered it before, but there's a leader you can get guaranteed in-game, but if you have all 4 captain slots full you'll get an alternate message and don't get a chance to recruit them. That I get, but what I don't understand is why I don't get any military leaders offered (I only have one) when all the domestic slots are taken. There's plenty of openings still on the ship officers side. Olesh posted:Ground installations are protected both by any planetary shields present and the best shield technology available (so no planetary shields and Class III researched means that even heavy mount Mass Drivers only do 1 damage to a planet). Another great post, but the battle video may interest you. It looked to me like it wasn't rounding down, since damage was 1-2 in this exact instance. Still not much of course! GuavaMoment posted:whenever a non-Darlok spy does anything, just assume it's the Darloks framing someone else. Silicoids steal troop pods? Darloks. Meklar destroy star base? DARLOKS! Darloks bomb Xiphias? Oh you'd better believe that's the work of a Darlok. Lol. Also, counterpoint; the near-vertical spike of Silicoid technology suggests they really are doing some of the espionage themselves.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2019 20:59
|
|
|
Thotimx posted:That I get, but what I don't understand is why I don't get any military leaders offered (I only have one) when all the domestic slots are taken. There's plenty of openings still on the ship officers side. I can speculate, but take this with a grain of salt - military leaders seem to be less prevalent as the game goes on - you don't get offers from leaders that are dead or already hired, and the AI takes no special precautions to preserve their own military leaders. Also even though you can't hire any more domestic leaders doesn't mean those domestic chances aren't being rolled. As far as the battle video goes... Something that you overlooked is that you're equipped with 2 Heavy Mount mass drivers, and you never did more than 2 damage a volley. Work backwards with me from that - Since you did at most 2 damage per volley, it fits that each mass driver only does 1 damage. Planets are treated as immobile ships, meaning that their beam defense is a -20, but that doesn't mean you can't miss - especially firing at very long ranges. Had you advanced up close, I suspect you would have seen your 1-damage shots disappear more or less entirely. Which brings me to my other point... You fought your battle from an almost entirely stationary position - while that makes sense to a degree when the station was up, to reduce/eliminate the effectiveness of its own beam weapons, you can also be more effective at eliminating incoming missiles by moving your ships to aggressively combat incoming missiles. If a ship isn't being targeted, you can turn it/move it closer to incoming missile fire when taking your shots, letting you leverage shorter ranges and a greater number of ships (and therefore guns) to shoot down incoming missile fire (and fighters). Also, if you had bombs on your ships, you'd have to advance closer to the planet to use them anyways, but you didn't have any this battle. As previously indicated (and you may have solved this since), you don't really have a fast option for planetary installations. Star bases will shoot down incoming missiles, so you might want to actually hold off on firing missiles (relying on your other ships to defend them) for a few turns while you've got your current loadout. If you destroy the station/other ships before launching, you'll need to spend less time plinking down the planet at 1 damage per Heavy Mount Mass Driver, which may be helpful for your sanity.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2019 21:34
|
|
|
Just having one big fat armored "all the bombs in the universe" ship with as many speed boosts as possible goes a long way towards making planets be less of a pain with beam fleets. You make sure you screen it until it's ready to go in for the kill.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2019 21:59
|
|
|
Olesh posted:you're equipped with 2 Heavy Mount mass drivers, and you never did more than 2 damage a volley. Yep. Didn't think about the fact that I was shooting two of them at a time, that's the error. I'm definitely planning on doing something in terms of attacking planets better - the current group was really just supposed to make sure any Mrrshan advance stopped. Silicoids took care of that for me, so hopefully I can take things to the next level with a better bombardment ship, more transports eventually, and so on.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 04:35
|
|
|
Mrrshan Squeeze Here's our new cruiser aimed at planetary assaults, the Invader. I didn't give it extra armoring, just made it tougher to hit. Idea is that I'll use the other ships in the fleet for point defense, and it still has the shields (but no capacitors). We'll see how that works out. I don't know if having the bombs split up is useful, but the idea is to tailor the damage to the target. Right now I'll just go with one of these. Perhaps more will be built later.  After some pondering, I terminated the services of Magistrate Crassis. He helps with industry, but in a far-flung empire he only helps so much. Rash-lki does that better plus a lot more, Grogg is more valuable overall, and Yota helps bring new leaders in. I decide it's best to try to open up that slot. We'll see if that gets any more military types to apply, but whether it does or not hopefully we'll have a shot at more high-level governors. Crassis served us well, and there is no ill will. At least from my end. SD 3521.1 - We have the cash burning a hole in our pockets, so I decide to fund a rush job on a Battlestation in Vela. Just to make sure the Antarans are well and truly defeated.  Next turn. This is what the ship repair do-hickey looks like.  I know we're behind in physics, and it's cheap. The scanner detects enemy ships five parsecs away, and reduces enemy missile evasion. Not that we're focused on those anymore, but still a good thing to have. The blaster is actually just lethal radiation, specializing in damaging shields and killing marines on board. I'm not as interested in that for our present purposes.  SD 3521.3 Our first Radiation Shield is up, on Lerion II. As soon as the Stock Exchange is built, we'll get to work terraforming it. It used to look a lot like it's sister planet, which the Mrrshans still hold. Now it's already better, though only Barren, with the radiation kept out. It'll be a long process, but eventually this will be a decent planet. In much less positive news for us, the Silicoids and Mrrshan have signed a peace deal. Which means we'll get their full attention again. But first things first ...  We manage to strike profitable - well, eventually profitable - deals with the cybernetics. This means we will destroy them slightly later than we were already planning to. Antarans Attack Vela Prime So basically the Antarans laid waste to most of Vela Prime. Their particle beams were a lot more effective than our Mass Drivers, to put it mildly. I kept scanning the ships because I didn't understand why we were doing so little damage. They have high defensive capabilities, meaning we were missing a lot - +95 beam attack against about +110-120 beam defense on their end. But most important is the Damper Field, which apparently reduces all damage a ship takes by 75%. Egads. It's an 'exotic' tech which cannot be researched by standard means. They are worse than I remember them. And I remember them being bad. Only the Pulson missiles were able to do any significant damage. Antarans are also immune to the Battlestation's Ion Pulse Cannons, which didn't do me any favors either. Bottom line; we aren't capable of taking on the Antaran raids yet, and it's a waste of my time and resources to try until we tech-up. It's good that they are a worthy opponent, but we're just going to have to deal with a certain amount of their destruction for the time being it seems. The Klackon-Mrrshan war, on the other hand, is most welcome.  Here's what is left. One citizen, and Elder Sensei Yota. I should have relocated him, and am very fortunate he's still around. Vela Prime was producing a significant amount of our food - the Natives are all dead now  - and something on the order of 20% of our imperial research. So this is a significant blow.  I do not think it a coincidence that this came in so soon after firing Crassis. Until I find someone better, I'll hire Captain Nile. Aaaaand ... Alkari-Sakkra war. ** Tip: This is the second time this has happened that I recall this game. Research missed on a 94% chance to finish (boo!) so I didn't need all the scientists to get it to 100% the next turn. I pulled a bunch of them out and into production so it was barely guaranteed - but the catch is you have to remember to move them back the next turn.  Looks ... well, it looks like you might expect a scanner to look. We'll stick in the same field for Artificial Gravity. ** Graviton Beam we've already seen - I think it's what the Mrrshan were using. 3-15 damage that wreaks havoc on a ship's structure, but shields are a good defense against it thankfully. ** Planetary Gravity Generator removes negative gravity effects on a planet once built. Some good space-magic to eliminate one economic problem. ** Tractor Beam slows down ships, or stops them completely if you have enough (1 beam per class size of ship). Appears to be nearly a requirement for boarding actions. The gravity generator is what I'm most interested in here. Battle of Lerion III Got a little tedious once I got closer to the planet, but the Invader managed to deal with the missile base quite effectively. Now we just wait to see if we can handle a Mrrshan Battleship, which is incoming. If so, we'll press the attack further into their territory. SD 3521.9 - Several planets now have nothing useful to build, and we can't expand the fleet any more. There is no need for more Colony Ships. So, the only thing left to do is invest even more in research.  The gravity generator looks quite generic.  Chosen from among multiple worthy considerations. Subterranean Farms is the successor to Hydroponics (+4 additional food anywhere), while Weather Control System is an upgrade on Soil Enrichment, boosting farming to +2.  The empire-wide terraforming work is mostly done. Here is Sagan, which is now up to 27M max population, tops among our current systems. In general this has resulted in less food being shipped around. The big planets have all done soil enrichment and started producing enough to feed themselves, unless they are mineral rich. Atmospheric renewers allow for a LOT of production before any pollution accumulates. This kind of thing is happening on a somewhat smaller scale elsewhere; Bogina has three terran planets and one that is nearly-so. Rich planets are going all-in on production whenever we need it, poor ones focusing mostly on research. So while the Antarans may laugh at our ships, the economic engine of the TechnoGeek Empire is doing very well, thank you. SD 3522.1 - I'll spare you the intercept of the Mrrshan Panther III Battleship, led by Caern. They have neutron blasters, graviton beams, some missiles ... not very impressive defensive capabilities but they do have shields. And they ran away. Looked like it was going to go a lot like fighting one of their starbases - it would take a while, but our mass drivers would wear them down.  That's a rather ... disquieting image. Battle of Tah II Combat against a Fighter Garrison is seen here. By the by, the Panther Battleship was headed to Tah as well ... but we were faster so it couldn't assist the defense. So engines matter and stuff. Anyway, the weakness of fighters I think is seen here. If they can't overwhelm your PD, then they are sort of stuck. And that lovely missile that stayed on the map when they were all killed '0 missiles targeting Interceptor blah blah blah' was a fun bug as well.  This is the structure that outwits such minor nuisances as ozone depletion, global warming, and the like.  I can no longer ignore the rewards of Astro University. +1 to all farmers, workers, and scientists! I think I might be able to find a use for such a structure. Clearly this represents advanced educational infrastructure on a global scale.  We didn't have the option to exterminate this time, because Democracy. These Mrrshan workers need assimilation of course; the Alien Control Center we are building will make that happen faster, make them more productive while we wait, and make them less likely to revolt. Don't remember when we picked that up. At any rate, they are better farmers than we are, but not really because of the Aquatic bonus. The only thing their people do better is breed faster and pay more in taxes. I'm not particulary interested in spreading them around.  Most of the work was not done by us. The Silicoids took some territory, and we just grabbed one system - Caern's Battleship honorably chose to face us in hopeless battle rather than surrender - but mostly it was the Klackons.  Being the insufferable genocidal nitwits that they are, the Klackons simply destroyed every planet they found. Including the Fieras, the homeworld. We want the nice planet in Anchat - they just recolonized Carcosa, so they can have that - and are sending ships in the other directions to see what's what. If the bugs are dumb enough to let us grab any of this territory we will certainly do so. And if the peace holds - questionable, but K'kalak has agreed to a trade deal so who knows - we will turn our attentions elsewhere. I do very much like the fact that Mrrshans gotta Mrrshan. And there is nothing more Mrrshan than being in constant wars, biting off more than you can chew, and exiting stage left before anyone else. They have TechnoGeek mercy to thank for the fact they did not all go violently into that good galactic night ... a few of them were suffered to survive as our servants.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 20:32
|
|
|
I remember the only reasonable anti-antaran tactic as driving close and boarding them.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
Antarians and space monsters are immune to ion cannons.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 21:45
|
|
|
VictualSquid posted:I remember the only reasonable anti-antaran tactic as driving close and boarding them. Once you have better lasers/missiles in the mid-game it's not too hard for a battlestation and planet to repel a smaller fleet. Fighters also work ok but since every Antaran ship blows up on destruction you can only take down one or two with fighters before they're used up. But yeah early on they're pretty tough and if you haven't kept up on tech and fleet building their late-game fleets will overwhelm your static defenses.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 21:47
|
|
|
Antarans have Xentronium armor, which is better than any armor tech you can research. Particle beams are pretty powerful weapons with inbuilt shield piercing, and dampener fields are great defensive tools, even though you can't use shields with them. If you board and then scrap their ships, you can get these unresearchable techs, too. Just be prepared for many boarding actions to result in the Anraran ships to explode, since they have a kind of self destruct system that blows the ship up in something like 75% of successful boarding attempts,
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 21:52
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Antarans have Xentronium armor, which is better than any armor tech you can research. Particle beams are pretty powerful weapons with inbuilt shield piercing, and dampener fields are great defensive tools, even though you can't use shields with them. If you board and then scrap their ships, you can get these unresearchable techs, too. Just be prepared for many boarding actions to result in the Anraran ships to explode, since they have a kind of self destruct system that blows the ship up in something like 75% of successful boarding attempts, In all the times I played MOO2 back in the day, the number of times I actually captured an Antaran ship could be counted on one hand, and you didn't need all the fingers. Truly awesome when you pulled it off, but debatable on whether it's actually worth trying...
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
Lerion III battle: You didn't really grok the initiative issues you were having. With Augmented Engines, your Invader beats out all the rest of your ships on initiative. You used Wait on it so that your other ships could run in and shoot down the incoming missiles, which is good and correct, but once those were shot down you dumped the rest of your ships' turns. In short, initiative was happening like such: Turn start: Invader -> Wait Interdictors: -> Shoot missiles Remaining Interdictors -> Shoot planet fruitlessly Enemy Missile Base: Launch missiles Delayed Invader Turn -> Uh there's missiles here, wait... oh wait we're the last remaining ship. Uh, creep forward one tile and end turn? New Turn start: Invader -> Oh it's our turn again and we still have missiles in our face, let's repeat the last turn... (repeat the last turn) Had you used Wait on the rest of your ships so that they would act after the Missile base fired (but before a new turn started), you could have shot down the missiles then waltzed in and bombed the planet much quicker, avoiding the tedium you mentioned. You also mention at one point... Thotimx posted:SD 3521.9 - Several planets now have nothing useful to build, and we can't expand the fleet any more. There is no need for more Colony Ships. So, the only thing left to do is invest even more in research. In the early and mid game, Antarans can feel impossible to defend against, but they aren't unstoppable. As you've seen, missiles are effective against them (provided you can field enough). Fighter Garrisons also help more than you might think. Star Bases and their upgrades are also useful, in that they launch more missiles and also draw fire (giving your planet time to launch missiles). However, in the early/mid game it is highly unlikely that any beam weapons are going to contribute much of anything - even Mass Drivers, the best early-game beam weapon, does piddling damage through the Damper Field, and since all Antaran ships have the fastest engines, it's unlikely that you can reliably hit them. Treating them as something of a natural disaster is fine, but advancement in Chemistry (for better missiles*) is the easiest way to improve your defenses against Antaran attack. Later on, improvements in Computers (for, well, better computers) and Physics (for better beam weapons**) are key to leveraging the advantages *** you get over Antarans, but it's something of a race, as the longer the game goes on, the bigger the raiding fleets, and eventually your planetary defenses will simply not be sufficient to the task without fleet help. * There are only four missile types in the game: Nuclear, Merculite, Pulson, and Zeon. Thotimx already has Pulson missiles, and the early game missile spam fleets don't tend to work that well against Antarans - I can go into more detail if desired. Here are the stats on each type of missile: Nuclear - 8 damage, 4 HP/missile Merculite - 14 damage, 8 HP Pulson - 20 damage, 12 HP Zeon - 30 damage, 16 HP. All missiles have the same mods - with 1 level of miniaturization, you get Armored and Fast missile options, and with 2 levels, the MIRV option unlocks (each missile does 4x damage at the cost of 2x space, but no increase in missile HP). However, Chemistry doesn't have very many tech levels - Thotimx's next Chemistry researches are: Nano Technology (2000 RP) Molecular Manipulation (4500 RP; Zeon Missiles are here) Molecular Control (10,000 RP, last techs in the tree) and then Hyper-advanced Chemistry (starts at 25,000 RP, provides no new techs but continues to provide miniaturization for existing technology). This is part of why missiles tend to fall off hard after the early game - MIRV nuclear missiles are disproportionately effective, but their hitpoints don't improve and if you switch to more damaging and durable missiles (say, to deal with late-game shields against which Nuclear missiles are mostly ineffective), your damage per space efficiency goes into the toilet. ** Unlike Chemistry, which only has 7 techs to research before hitting Hyper-advanced Chemistry, Physics has more intermediate techs - 10 total. While this means that capping out all Physics research requires more total RP, Physics tech miniaturizes faster, which is part of the reason why beam weapons so rapidly pull ahead of missiles past the early game. Physics is definitely the tree that is most fleshed out for non-Creatives, giving you a variety of standard choices to upgrade depending on your needs: Beam weapons Rifle upgrades (ground units) Scanners (detection range) Communications (redirecting fleets and command points) The specific beam weapon upgrades more or less are chosen at-need; there's no need for a non-Creative to take a beam weapon upgrade until they need to overcome a higher class of shields, although there are uses for specific upgrades and you don't want to rely on Laser Cannons or Fusion Beams for long, since Class III shields come relatively early in the tech tree. In addition, Physics holds a variety of one-off upgrades, some of which are very valuable. Creative races are absolutely flooded with an overabundance of useful technology here. An interesting note is that there are relatively few Point Defense options in the game. The full list of beams that can be made Point Defense (and are thus valid options for mounting on Interceptors) are: Laser Cannons (worst option) Fusion Beams (Can be good upgrading with enveloping for 4x damage, but is basically useless outside of point blank range) Mass Drivers (generally better than the other early-game alternatives, as it doesn't suffer the huge problem with damage fall-off PD weapons has) Phasors Particle Beams (exotic, can't be obtained through research) Phasors are an extremely valuable research for anyone with Fighter Garrisons or mounting Interceptors/Heavy Fighters, as it doesn't get any better than this***. Intentionally mounting PD weapons on your ships is mostly a trap; you're almost always better off using the space for regular non-PD versions of the weapon and manually shooting down missiles/fighters. However, PD Auto Fire Mass Drivers are perfectly fine so long as you don't expect them to be useful against anything other than missiles and fighters. *** Exotic Technology Is Kind Of Crap Unlike the technologies that the player researches, Antarans use "Exotic" technologies, which can't be researched by the player and don't benefit from miniaturization. Those Particle Beams on the Antaran raiders? Yeah, they may be 30 damage weapons with inherent shield piercing, but they're not all that good. Most beam weapons have a base Size of 10 units, which then goes down with miniaturization. Particle Beams have a base size of 15 units, and never get any smaller. In the long run, miniaturization is what kills Antarans. Their weapons never get any better, while researching anything in the same tech tree lets you mount more or your existing stuff or newer, better stuff, for the same or reduced cost. While the Damper Field seems like a great technology (and it kind of is, multiplying their already impressive HP effectively by 4), it also means that even Laser Cannons and Fusion Beams can take them down, if you have the accuracy to hit them and you throw enough volume of fire their way. However, there's one notable niche exception - Particle Beams are the "best" available PD weapons, meaning that if you have access to Particle Beams, Interceptors (and Heavy Fighters, if you have them) suddenly get a huge boost to their effectiveness, since they don't modify or care about the miniaturization levels of their weapons. Olesh fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2019 23:14
|
|
|
Olesh posted:You didn't really grok the initiative issues you were having. There were other issues you were having too. With your tech, the best strategy against star bases is to rush to point blank and board them. I'm in camp of 'build one of the biggest ships available and keep it alive' not just because I think it's the best play, but because it doesn't result in 10 minute battles. With your damage control, it's an ever more powerful option now.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2019 01:56
|
|
|
My preferred tactic against Antarans is basically ships with Transporters and mass sending marines over. You lose a lot o fships and rarely capture (Antarn Marines are beasts) but every now and then you manage to seize one and they have some great tech. So if you can get one it can be a nice boost up - particularly for fixed defenses. You might never use them on ships but on battlestations with xenotronium armor are hard to crack. But most of the time with them you just pray and try and minimize losses. Massed boarding teams are a possible counter - if you can't kill the engines, use assault shuttles.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2019 04:45
|
|
|
Yeah boarding is a good counter for antarans. Most of the antaran techs are kinda blah, as noted. What is awesome though is Xentronium Armor, which is the best armour in the game. OTOH the AI can steal that tech from you which would be Bad.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2019 12:11
|
|
|
Antaran ships have a 50% chance to self-destruct if you manage to take one by boarding. Jerks.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2019 22:44
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:Antaran ships have a 50% chance to self-destruct if you manage to take one by boarding. Jerks. Not to mention the damping fields turning half? your marines into paste before combat even starts. Loving the let's play, and remember kill Darlocks 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 00:02
|
|
|
GuavaMoment posted:With your tech, the best strategy against star bases is to rush to point blank and board them. How is that better than killing them from range with virtually no risk to the fleet? GuavaMoment posted:I'm in camp of 'build one of the biggest ships available and keep it alive' not just because I think it's the best play, but because it doesn't result in 10 minute battles. It doesn't? I had battles lasting that long even with a high-tech Doom Star. And longer - the 'special' battle that will hopefully end this game lasted over 20 minutes on Auto. Olesh posted:Unlike the technologies that the player researches, Antarans use "Exotic" technologies, which can't be researched by the player and don't benefit from miniaturization. I really like this part about the Antarans - the fact that they are basically a 'static' enemy in terms of tech advance that you can eventually overcome. Olesh posted:Invader -> Wait LOL! Thanks for pointing out the solution as well to my … *ahem* … 'tactics'. Olesh posted:having those Colony Ships on hand is immediately useful because the Mrrshan empire got bombed to oblivion. True, but I had two reasons at the time: ** It's looking like the AIs don't invade nearly as much as I thought they would. I didn't expect this many systems to 'come open'. ** I didn't think I had extra command points to spare. Finances are now good enough that I can afford to have a couple of extra colony ships built, and I'll probably do that going forward, but at the same time the Klackons are sending about 3-battleship task forces and the like so my main concern was fielding enough combat ships to not be a pushover, with all other considerations being secondary to that. Torranor posted:If you board and then scrap their ships, you can get these unresearchable techs, too. Just be prepared for many boarding actions to result in the Anraran ships to explode, since they have a kind of self destruct system that blows the ship up in something like 75% of successful boarding attempts, Since this general sentiment was echoed by like half a dozen people, it looks like I'm going to change my plan and see if I can make boarding work. I"ve never once tried it, so this could be … an adventure.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 01:15
|
|
|
So near as I can tell, the AI will invade if they have transport ships available, and bomb if they don't. The AI doesn't do partial bombardments - when they bomb, they bomb with everything they have. What makes them decide to build or bring transports, I don't know - possibly the AI calculates the likelihood of winning the ground engagement based on Ground Attack scores. I don't think I've ever seen the AI fail to bring enough transports to successfully invade. Guava is generally correct about boarding star bases; being inherently immobile they can be boarded by any ship that gets close enough, and raids are highly effective at damaging components. Frequently after one or two raids you'll destroy the shields or computers, at which point the star base is highly vulnerable to incoming fire and/or its own outgoing beam fire becomes ineffective, on top of any weapons that you destroy. As far as boarding Antaran ships goes, uh, prepare for frustration. Every Antaran ship is equipped with a Quantum Detonator, which among its normal effect of multiplying the power of drive explosions, also has a 50% chance of triggering the self-destruct if the ship is successfully captured. Antarans have the best marines in the game, hands down, so the chances of capturing any given ship in a fair fight are usually hilariously low. The most reliable way to actually capture their ships, I've found in the past, is to outnumber the crap out of them. There's a relatively easy way to do this - create a couple dedicated capture ships, as big as you can afford, fitted with as many Assault Shuttles as you can. The important thing is to concentrate the shuttles onto fewer ships to increase your chance of success, since spreading your attacks out is less likely to work. Ideally, you want multiple ships to make as many attempts per raid as you can, because you'll lose all your assault shuttles every time a capture attempt triggers the self-destruct so you need to be able to stagger your launches. Assault shuttles will group themselves into a combined launch so long as they're fired as the same time from the same ship. Launching 10 assault shuttles at once will perform a boarding action with 40 marines (minus however many shuttles get shot down on the way). Launching 10 assault shuttles in two groups of 5 (from two different ships, say) will perform two boarding actions with 20 marines each, which in my experience is less likely to succeed than a single boarding action with twice the marines. Even successfully managing to capture a ship, you still need to win the combat while keeping your prize intact, which may be easier said than done. Edit: I gave the apparently contradictory advice of "make as many attempts per raid as you can" and "concentrate the shuttles onto fewer ships", so just to clarify: Your Assault Shuttle carriers should be the largest class you can field, and carry as many assault shuttles as you can manage. Some miniaturization helps here. You want to maximize the size of your "capture" punch as much as possible, and be prepared to take as many of those maximum-size capture swings at an incoming Antaran fleet as you can manage. Olesh fucked around with this message at 02:40 on May 29, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 02:37
|
|
|
I always mass boarded Antarans once I got transporters. Just stayed at range and kept on swarming them with maximum marines from all ships. Wasn't particularly effective but I was generally able to capture enough over a game to scrap them and get a few weapons techs which was worth it unless was able to beat the Orion guardian. Sure, it'd take like 50 times the complement of troops a random Antarn ship had, but it was POSSIBLE. Also fun at the point you realize you're basically burying them in corpses to take thes hip deck by deck. Also helpful - do it with more experienced ships, I believe that they get higher bonsues when attacking/boarding. And I'm fairly sure some military leaders also give bonuses to assault operations. It's most often not worth the effort to do so - by the time you can send out fleets to intercept the Antarans that can realistically board and seize them in combat and survive you don't need to board htem to get techs. It's fun though. I never had issues when I would capture one in combat (and it didn't self destruct mind) and then having it destroyedin combat - but I nearly always would play telepathic races (never bother with transports again) and would just insta warp out once captured. Probably my favorite ever moment in MOO 2 was when I was able to *somehow* via stupidity and luck seize the star fortress around Antares and then use ti to start bombarding the planet. So, so cathartic
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 05:31
|
|
|
Olesh posted:Even successfully managing to capture a ship, you still need to win the combat while keeping your prize intact, which may be easier said than done. Ahh, I figured I would just retreat the captured ship. This changes things - there's not much point in giving it a go until I can be more credible opposition to their attack groups.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 10:53
|
|
|
I can't give a real effortpost about the mechanics of boarding, raid vs capture, or any of that fun stuff, because I don't have any source beyond my gut feels from playing the game. Here's what my experience tells me, though: Boarding: Normally can only be done to an immobile target - either a star base or a ship whose engines have been damaged to the point of immobility. Transporters allow you to board a target that is still mobile, but are blocked if the enemy's shields are up (only caring about the shield facing between the two ships). Hard Shields make a ship completely immune to Transporters, however. Tractor beams allow you to immobilize an otherwise mobile target, thus allowing you to board a ship normally with intact engines. Assault Shuttles function like other types of fighters, but a shuttle group will board the enemy ship in lieu of firing weapons. The enemy ship does not need to be immobilized nor have its shields down. Each individual shuttle carries one marine. Assault Shuttles launch in sets of 4 per "weapon". Raiding vs Capturing: Raiding attempts to damage ship systems. The ground combat ratings and number of marines for each ship are compared to determine success or failure. Marines on both side have a chance to be killed in the process (which is probably a series of checks), although having an advantage in ground combat/numbers makes it more likely that enemy marines will die and less likely that your own marines will die. Conversely, if you're attacking at a disadvantage, you are more likely to lose marines without accomplishing anything. Depending on the level of success of the raid, one or more ship systems may be damaged/destroyed. If the engines are destroyed in this fashion, it's possible for the ship to overload and explode. Weapons are damaged individually; if an enemy ship has 10 laser cannons, each laser cannon gets targeted and damaged separately (you don't take out all 10 at once). Most ship special systems can disabled through raiding, although some (such as Reinforced Hull) cannot. Additionally, a ship's shields, engines, and targeting computers can be hit during a raid. If a ship's shields are damaged, it loses both the temporary HP provided as well as the flat damage reduction on incoming attacks. Even at a disadvantage, raids have a good chance of damaging something. Capturing, on the other hand, attempts to take control of the enemy ship. Much like raiding, the ground combat ratings and number of marines on each side are compared to determine success or failure. Unlike raiding, however, capture attempts are all-or-nothing - the "marine" battle will always continue until one side runs out of marines. If all the attackers are killed, the capture attempt fails. If all the defenders are killed, the capture attempt succeeds and the attacker claims the enemy ship. However, the captured ship cannot be operated or controlled in the current battle* - it can, however, be fired upon by its former owners and destroyed, or possibly even boarded and recaptured. *Telepathic races can immediately operate a captured ship. While the AI isn't smart enough to capture ships except opportunistically, player Telepathic races can be very dangerous in space combat given strong ground combat ratings and some means of reliably boarding ships at will. Things that make capturing easier: Neutron Blasters and one other weapon have an effect whereby damage dealt to a ship will kill marines - for every 5 points of damage not stopped by shields, one marine on the target ship is killed (Assault Shuttles are unaffected). Raiding an enemy ship first can be an effective way to chip away at both defending marines while also reducing the enemy ship's ability to do damage. Scrapping captured ships: When you scrap a captured ship at one of your own systems, you gain a fraction of the cost used to construct it. In addition, if the ship you're scrapping utilizes any technology you don't currently own, you can learn that technology. (I don't actually know if this is a 100% chance). This is one of two ways to gain access to so-called "exotic" technologies possessed by the Antareans that can't otherwise be researched. Antarans are dicks: Antareans have nearly the highest possible ground combat rating in the game, making their ships' marines incredibly difficult to dislodge. Quantum Detonators nix 50% of all capture attempts by blowing up the ship on a successful capture. Damper Fields negate the effect of troop killing weapons - Neutron Blasters (and the other one) do not kill marines when used on a ship equipped with a Damper Field. While Transporters can always be used against a ship with a Damper Field (as shields and Damper Fields are mutually exclusive), Damper Fields have a 50% chance to kill any marine sent via transporter. Immobilized Antaran ships will frequently self-destruct at the first available opportunity, meaning traditional boarding methods can rarely ever be used. Typically, by the time you can actually capture Antaran raiding ships, you've already won the game and are in the mop-up phase. Edit: Fixed a broken tag.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 11:40
|
|
|
Would a Raid attack against an Antaran ship have a chance of damaging their Quantum Detonator? 
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 11:49
|
|
|
PurpleXVI posted:Would a Raid attack against an Antaran ship have a chance of damaging their Quantum Detonator? I knew someone was going to ask that. It's a good question, but one I don't have the answer to. Presumably yes, but for all I know the consequences of damaging the Quantum Detonator is "ship detonates". Vague, half-remembered memories indicate it's possible that's actually what happens, but it's been a while since I bothered trying to steal Antaran ships. Next time I feel like firing up the game, I'll have to go with a capture gimmick again and do some more testing.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:05
|
|
|
I am slowly remembering my strategies from long time ago. When my empire was remotely at peace I built large ships full of Assault Shuttles or Tractor Beams (don't remember what was better) In order to capture some Antarans. The plan is just to throw wave after wave of men at them until their kill counters overflow. Actually, doesn't the damper field not work against teleporters? I might be remembering wrong. It is probably more expensive then abandoning the colony and rebuilding it. At least until the late-game. Step 3 is getting the Antaran tech stolen by your enemies. Though it isn't really as strong as it sounds. I do remember liking Damper Field + Advanced Auto Repair ships.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 13:42
|
|
|
Just out of curiosity, but are you always "locked" into he highest level of beam weapon you have unlocked? And if not, does the AI consider miniaturization when it considers what beam weapons to put onto ships? If they just go for the highest number weapons, could you "bait" them by getting the antarian beam weapons tech, then sharing it to everyone else?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:09
|
|
|
Auto-designed stuff like starbases are locked to the highest level, otherwise you can design your ships however you want.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 14:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 08:56 |
|
|
It's pretty funny how the Antaran techs are worth more or less in different stages of the game. When individual weapons have low damage, you're better served with shields. When each side fields death stars with weapons that have a high minimal damage, you fare better with Damper Fields. And when nobody has Hard Shields, and your beam miniaturization is low, Particle Beams can be quite powerful. But later on, once you've researched enough techs to get good miniaturization, you get more damage per (star ship) space with "normal" weapons. Xentronium Armor is always good though. It also has the special feature of being immune to being armor penetrated.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2019 16:23
|
|