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Keen to keep up with this LP. Although you'll probably see me complaining about stuff in the game a lot, most of that comes out of the fact that I really enjoyed the game despite all its problems, which made the problems irk me all the more. It's the alpha build of a spectacular game that never got made.
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Mar 18, 2019 10:07
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This is the only Ultima game I played. I don't remember exactly at what point I quit (I certainly put a lot of hours into it) and I'd be interested in seeing how it all actually works out. Watching the ending cinematic (a quicktime file on the CD) certainly didn't answer a lot of questions.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:49
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Soul Reaver posted:Keen to keep up with this LP. That's pretty much how I see it, too. I think it could have been my favourite in the series with some changes.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:00
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Oh, nice. I got a lot out of Ultima 8 when I played it, but I only played it once in the mid-90s so I'm looking forward to seeing it again via the LP. It is telling that I only played it once, though. This is in comparison to Ultima 7 (parts 1 and 2), a game where I lost track of how many times I played it even back in the 90s. It was my absolute favourite game until Morrowind came along. Morrowind healed the wounds left by Ultima 9. Thanks to Morrowind, I learned to love (games) again. With U8, I appreciate what they did with the story and themes (or at least my teenage self did; we'll see how well it holds up), but man it was rough to play. I've still got the CD version sitting on my shelf next to The Complete Ultima 7 (and Ultima 9...  ), and it must be un-patched, because I certainly remember the misery of the jumping puzzles involving moving platforms.Coolguye posted:for the smilie thing, here's what i recommend you do instead of breaking up your posts: I was going to say the same thing, and add that it might be cool to use character portraits instead of emoticons. Obviously U8 doesn't really have convenient character portraits like U7, but you could crop down a shot of the Avatar's face from the inventory paper-doll, and use cropped shots of the other characters as they appear in the game world. I like that sort of thing in screenshot LPs; it does a better job of tying the dialogue back to the characters, I think. Kind of on that topic, I remember being disappointed at the lack of character portraits when I started the game - especially after the great portraits in U7. Later on I felt like it kind of aided the atmosphere of alienation and isolation in the game... but I'd be pretty surprised if that was intentional, and not a case of "Electronic Arts has their boot on our necks; we need to cut stuff to release the game by their deadline". Edit: Oh, forgot to say that I'm especially interested in learning about all the cut content. I've never looked into any of that.
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Mar 19, 2019 01:48
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for the Avatar)
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I don't know why everyone is ragging on Ultima 9 so much. It was a perfectly good late 90s 3D adventure RPG. I quite enjoyed it. I mean it wasn't a very good ULTIMA game, I freely admit that. But it was pretty okay for the time.
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Mar 19, 2019 02:48
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Albu-quirky Guy posted:I don't know why everyone is ragging on Ultima 9 so much. It was a perfectly good late 90s 3D adventure RPG. I quite enjoyed it. I haven't played it, but from what I gather, it's because the dialogue is incredibly, incredibly dumb. Which indeed is heavily because it claims to be an Ultima game and it claims that the main character is the Avatar. There's no way that the Avatar would be saying the stuff he does unless he suffered serious brain damage (indeed, one theory goes that his memory loss comes from the sheer number of times he falls over and bangs his head in Ultima 8) so this is very much a case of the game being made worse by it being a sequel. "What's a paladin?"
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Mar 19, 2019 04:51
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What really endeared me to Ultima 7 and 8 is the worldbuilding. Ignoring all the gameplay issues and the terrible plot, the Britannia of Ultima IX just felt so incredible sterile.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:23
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I remember disliking 9's combat and the platforming, don't really remember the dialogue.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:30
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Computer Status: Looks like 2019 is the Year of the Linux Desktop...at least for me. I had to fiddle with the dosbox settings a bit, but I'm able to run Ultima 8 in Ubuntu. I want to play around with the audio settings a little, since I'm not hearing the digitized voices (like the Guardian taunting you), but that's not necessary. When I played the game as a kid, we didn't even have a sound card or speakers, so it was a silent game for me. All of the screenshots, video, and writeups have been restored to my hard disk and are working just fine. We can proceed with the updates as usual tomorrow. Thank you for your patience.
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Mar 19, 2019 10:38
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I've done some searching around online and there are utilities that can (somewhat) decode the usecode for Ultima 8. The usecode contains hidden flags (such as where you are in the plot and who is angry with you), and all of the text in the game. I'm going to study this a bit tonight.+
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Mar 19, 2019 20:27
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I played this as a kid, and what with no internet, progressing this game was impossible for me for one reason. i never knew how to climb up ledges. So i could explored the hell out of Tenebrae, but was convinced the version i had was bugged  . coupled with the stepping stone jumping in the unpatched version and the game was just impossible to play for young me.I've since played it through to about 2/3 completion but it never really grabbed me in the way that the Guardian saga promised through U7 and Underworld 2. ultima 8 and 9 just fell apart and while they might have succeeded as standalone games at the time, they really failed on completing on a compelling 'trilogy', and 9 was just bizarre and wrong. Good luck with the LP and the virii OP!
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Mar 20, 2019 04:30
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More East Tenebrae, Necromancy We just finished talking to Aramina. Let’s head South to visit Salkind’s home.    There’s some treasure locked behind some intense security.  Let’s investigate the bedroom. There’s a dresser along the East wall that contains an invulnerability potion.  We find a key under the towel on this table.  The other end of the home has nothing interesting. Let’s move on to the middle room.  Salkind is home, but that won’t stop us from what we’re here to do. He has books littered all over the house. There are a few interesting ones that we’ll note.  The Book of Punishments tells us why people were executed. Also, on the top left page, Salkind can’t spell “seneschal.”  Given what we know, the page on Toran seems excessive. Salkind has been trumping up charges against people he wants to get rid of.  In the desk, under a sheet of paper, is Salkind’s Enemies List. It’s got half the town on it! I am surprised to notice that Bentic isn’t on there.  Moving the vase in the corner here, we spot another key.  Salkind keeps this book by itself on a table. I bet it’s got something interesting to tell us.  Trixter? gently caress.  drat you, Salkind! Why would you keep something like this lying around in your living room?  This switch in the bedroom will open the metal wall to Salkind’s chest.  Of course it’s loving trapped. We die from the explosion and need to reload. We should rest before opening chests, if our health is not topped off.  This time, we survive. There are three bags, each with 100 obsidians each. There are also four scrolls: healing, restoration, invisibility, and restore to sight. Yoink.   One last home in East Tenebrae for now: Beren’s house. There’s a switch on the wall as soon as we walk into his home; let’s hit that immediately so we can loot his basement after we chat with him. Beren is the Town Sorcerer, meaning he casts fire magic. He is a branch of law enforcement in Tenebrae; if a crime is reported, Beren will arrive and blow you up. Let’s see what he has to say.   Greetings, stranger. I am called Beren, and you? My name is TerraGoetia. Well met, TerraGoetia. And what do you seek of me? What do you do here? I am a mage. How are you? I am fine. Now that you have asked your questions, it is my turn to ask you mine. Why are you here? I have been banished here. Oh really? Who has banished you here? A big red guy called the Guardian. If the Guardian has sent you here, then you are not banished, but blessed. The Guardian will protect you as he has protected us. What do you mean by protected? I am not a historian, so I suggest you seek out Bentic, as he is very knowledgeable. Go to the library and search out the knowledge in the books there. I’m sure Bentic would just -love- to discuss the past with you. That’s what scares me. What did you say? Do you think he cares about me? Of course. The Guardian is the provider of all good things. It is he who protected us in our time of need. If there is aught else you would discuss? Farewell.Beren has revealed to us that the people of this land revere the Guardian. Given our shoddy treatment by Big Red so far, that seems like misplaced worship. Perhaps we’ll run into Beren more when we discover more about his branch of magic? For now, it’s time to steal. Here is one thing to note: If we directly move an item from Beren’s home into our backpack, he will blow us up. Beren does not seem to mind if we eat his food.       We can MOVE items in Beren’s home a limited number of times before he blows us up.  Taking what we know about Beren’s behavior, let’s go to the basement. Note the pentagram on the floor; this is used in performing Sorcery rituals. We can use Beren’s pentagram later, but we’ll find others as well.  The box on the pedestal has 32 obsidian coins. We know if we take the money directly, Beren will kill us. So how do we get it?  First, we place a bag on the floor.  Then we put the money in the bag. This will cause Beren to warn us once.  Then, we take the bag. Beren does not own the bag itself, so this does not trigger any behavior from him. And that’s how you rob a Sorcerer. So now that we’ve (mostly) explored East Tenebrae, let’s move on to the Cemetery. Note that I forgot to explore the boathouse while recording for this update. We will loot it later.  For now, we take the Cemetery Road,  being sure to follow the path here once we transition to the Cemetery map. The cemetery contains ghosts, which we are currently unable to harm. It is very important that we not try to square off with one yet.  We pass through this gateway.  Here we find a man wandering outside the Necromancer’s tomb. Ah, a stranger. Have you come to the tomb to learn? What Tomb? What Tomb? Why -the- Tomb. The Tomb of Moriens. Tomb of Moriens? Yes! Moriens, the Great One, was interred here, within these very walls! What do you mean by interred? Buried, then given over to Lithos, the Mountain King. Long has it been since Moriens joined Lithos. Who is Lithos? What a jest you play, my friend! As if any one could not know of the Mountain King. How could a person live and not know of the Earth Titan? You have a sharp wit, friend. How long has it been? Oh, generations ago, too many to count. Moriens is the ancient father of all Necromancers. Learn about what? Learn the way of the Necromancer. Learn our traditions and mysteries! Traditions. Our lives are very structured. We must perform our rites very precisely lest they be not accepted. Yet sometimes such presicion can create problems. What problems? As I said, in our rituals, everything must be done at the right time with the right tools. Unfortunately, we are missing a most important tool. Missing a tool? Yes, our ceremonial dagger. It was taken from us by that power mad witch, Mordea. Mordea took the dagger? Yes! Never before have we had to worry about such things. People have always feared the cemetery and respected our work. But not long ago, Mordea came here with an armed force and took the dagger. Why is this dagger special? It was given to Moriens by the Mountain King Himself. We can not perform our ceremonies with any other dagger. People respected your work? Oh yes, we were respected and feared. The Necromancers have always been held in just regard as one of the great powers of the world. It has taken one so obsessed with power as Mordea to lessen the people’s regard for us. People’s regard has lessened? Yes, I am sad to say. We shall win them back, however. Lithos will lead us out of these dark times and show us all His power and majesty. Power and majesty? You must understand that we do not seek to rule all, such as Mordea does. We simply wish to respect and revere Lithos. Your order is a great power? What greater power could there be than the power of the land itself? We who follow the Mountain King are peaceful, but when we are pressed we can wield our power well. What about Mordea? It would do more harm than good for the Necromancer to wage war with Mordea. Even though Mordea is power mad. More harm than good? Think of the destruction that would occur if two Titanic forces were to lock themselves in combat. The destruction would be terrible. Power mad? I don’t care who hears me say it! Mordea is evil and power hungry! Long has she been a tyrant but now she has gone too far! Now that she has the dagger, we can not perform our rites without her approval. You need her approval? Yes! Without her approval, we can not perform our rituals. We can not work under such conditions! We need to get the dagger back soon or there will be great danger. What kind of danger? I truly can not tell you. The Mountain King’s temper is, well, titanic. He may rip the land apart should we anger him. Anger him? Yes. If I am not able to perform the appropriate ceremony upon Lothian, I will greatly disappoint, and anger, my Lord. Rip the land apart? Oh yes, earthquakes, fissures, landslides, the power of the Earth Titan is very great. I have never seen the power of His wrath before, but I have heard terrible stories. What stories? In the days before Moriens agreed to serve the Mountain King, our lord did often rend the land as was His pleasure. Why did he do this? Please, I do not have time to talk of this. I need to get the dagger back before Lothian dies. Get the dagger back. How? Lothian is very ill and I must stay by her side. Besides, neither of us are trained warriors to challenge Mordea’s guards. How could we possibly retrieve the dagger? Stay by her side. It is as I have said, our ceremonies must occur at the correct time. I can tell you no more than that except to say that I must be present with Lothian dies. I’ll get the dagger. Will you truly? Yes. Thank you! I have heard that Mordea keeps the dagger in her chambers. You will know the dagger by its golden hilt and serpentine blade. Please hurry, for soon we shall need the dagger! Farewell. Farewell, friend.I like Vividos. He’s a genuine guy who is proud of the traditions he serves. Of course, he serves Lithos, a gigantic rear end in a top hat, but if no one did, Lithos would not honor the pact and would be free to destroy the world. Vividos is also not the Necromancer; he is Lothian’s apprentice. Let’s explore the Tomb of Moriens and see what we can learn about them.  On the ground floor are greeted by an altar. Maybe this is where the Necromancers perform their rites to Lithos?  In the East corner of the ground floor is a bedroom. I would assume this is Vividos’s room, and that Lothian resides upstairs.  There is an ancient stone chair behind this fencing. I have no idea what use it has.  Upstairs, we enter a study. There are necromantic reagents on the tables, and some books. We certainly take the reagents. We’ve read some of these before, notable new books include an autobiography by Moriens and a book of introductory necromantic spells. Morien’s autobiography reveals that the reason Lithos shook the earth was that he longed to taste human flesh; his victims fell into the earth and he devoured them. This makes maintaining the pact even more critical. The necromantic spells we can learn from the introductory book are Open Ground and Death Speak. We’ll be using these later.  Note our int has raised by 1 from reading books.  This is Lothian’s bedroom. She is unresponsive.  In the chest in the corner is Lothian’s final contribution to the necromantic arts: the spell Earthquake.   Remember to kill the Ghouls when traveling through the Cemetery Road. Now that we’ve seen what we can here, let’s try to get the ritual dagger back. There are three people who probably know its location: Mordea, Salkind, and Aramina. Aramina seems like the most helpful of the three, so let’s talk to her.   Good morrow to you. I’m looking for a dagger. A dagger? I know nothing of daggers. I am just a servant to the Lady. I need help. I am not surprised by that, m’lord. Many people are in need of help these days. Others are in need of help? Not due to Lady Mordea, mind you. I-I’m certain that anyone out there who suffers or is hungry is in such a state due to their own laziness. Are you certain? Yes, mmm… Look, I do not want to get into any trouble, m’lord. Please, do not ask me to do anything that might cause me to anger the Lady. You won’t get into trouble. Ohh, I do not know why, but I am going to trust you. Mordea keeps a very special dagger in a locked chest. You will find the chest in a small closet near her bed. It’s in a chest? Yes and I have the key. I will give you the key, but you must promise not to tell -anyone- where you got it. I promise. Very well, here it is. Do what you will with it, but remember: You did not get that key from me. bye. Thank you, sir.Okay, we have the key, and we know where the dagger is. All that remains is to go get it.   We travel back to Central Tenebrae, and into the Palace. The key to Mordea’s bedroom was under the pillow on the table in her throne room. We collected it in Update 2.  Mordea is currently asleep, which is good. If she were in the throne room, she would kill us for entering her bedroom. We sneak over to the closet, and open it up. Inside the chest we find a scroll of Invisibility and a scroll of Restore to Sight. We also find a box…  which contains the dagger! What happens if we wake up Mordea?      Let’s not do that. Heading back to the Cemetery, remember to kill ghouls along the road. They’re free experience at this point.  We made it back to the Tomb of Moriens.  I bet you can see where this is going. Hello again, my friend. How are you today, Vividos? Not well, I fear. Our problem still exists and Lothian nears her end. Have you managed to get the dagger away from Mordea? I have the dagger. Truly?! You have the dagger? Bless you, my friend, bless you! Your timing is perfect for I need the dagger immediately! May I please have the dagger?The Ceremony of Eternity                            Stay tuned. TerraGoetia fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 06:08
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That's one way to move on up in the world.
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Mar 20, 2019 08:20
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Moon Slayer posted:Oh man, this game. When my family got our first computer in 1995, this game was on a disk (or a CD? I don't remember) that came with it, along with Syndicate, Wing Commander II (I think?), and one other game I don't remember. I spent hours messing around in town and being too scared to journey into the wilderness. I think there's a graveyard north of town that was the only other safe place in the game that I knew about and I would just loving sprint down the road between Tenebrae and there, terrified of running into monsters. Somehow I managed to advance a few plot things, like the change of leadership, but mostly I just ran around town and talked to people before finding an amusing way to kill myself, like lighting a bunch of bombs in my backpack and showering the horrified tavern patrons in my limbs. I had that same disc! It came with a Creative Sound Blaster sound board. The last game was Strike commander. I played (read died) quite a bit of Ultima 8 at the time before just quitting, since I was like 10 yo at time and had 0 interest in RPGs. Great to see a LP of the game.
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Mar 20, 2019 13:37
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Oh goodie, it's Pagan!  I'm another goon for whom it was the first Ultima and I still have a soft spot for it even if I never finished it. I love the music, the mood of the isolated island we're on, all the little things you can do with the items (the inventory system and the hack mover blew me away when I first saw them). I can see how I might be pissed off if I started this with expecting "Ultima 7 + SI but even better", but it's a fine game on its own and one I'll happily replay. I think I'll play along with the LP. And the existence of a jump patch would explain a lot, I remember having lots of trouble with them when I first played it and not understanding wtf was so hard after I came back to it a decade ago. So yeah, it does seem to make a big difference. TerraGoetia posted:
 quote:quote:Note our int has raised by 1 from reading books.  And speaking of, do you actually have to have an opponent, or can you grind stats just by stabbing a tree over and over? (also, do the training dummies the town guard has help with that?) quote:(We did have the execution scene, but that behavior's pretty much expected from evil tyrants. Now stabbing a defenseless old woman who's perfectly OK with getting killed this way does drive home that yes, you are in fact dealing with an actual death cult.) (this is still the saddest scene though) Oh, and BTW,  is a thing that exists.
Pierzak fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 00:10
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I went a little trigger happy with my screenshotting.... I have over 550 screenshots for update 5. I ideally want about 50 normal screenshots plus another batch for the next storyline cutscene, so I will have to sift through these and see what I want to keep. Please keep your comments coming. I should have time to respond tomorrow.
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Mar 21, 2019 02:28
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Pierzak posted:And speaking of, do you actually have to have an opponent, or can you grind stats just by stabbing a tree over and over? From memory, any weapon swinging will do the trick, so probably yes? That said, Devon, the friendly fisherman who saves your life at the start of the game makes for an excellent training dummy. His head is made of Invulnerabilium, allowing you to attack him repeatedly and at your hearts content until all your stats are safely maxed out. He must have annoyed Berem because the town Sorcerer/cop does not swoop in to blow you up if you do this. And Devon is apparently a pacifist because all he does when getting repeatedly smacked in the head is get upset and follow you around. I'm not sure if that still applies past the opening area of the game though. Soul Reaver fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 03:21
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I couldn't sleep tonight, so instead I played some Ultima. We now have footage of the Slayer Dungeon and the main plot until past the Necromancers in the Catacombs. This will provide much fodder for updates.Pierzak posted:This is now the official Potential Friends and Co-Conspirators List and I demand that you find every single living person on that list and talk to them. And keep this screenshot or even the book so you can cross them off the list. We will definitely talk to everyone on this list. Pierzak posted:Motherfucker! I never knew that, I thought it was from doing magic! You raise int from reading books and casting spells. Luckily, your int does not go down from talking to Salkind. Pierzak posted:And speaking of, do you actually have to have an opponent, or can you grind stats just by stabbing a tree over and over? I can't confirm this. I did some testing, and swung at the air for a bit. No gains. However, when fighting a monster, I did get stat gains from missed attacks. Soul Reaver posted:That said, Devon, the friendly fisherman who saves your life at the start of the game makes for an excellent training dummy. His head is made of Invulnerabilium, allowing you to attack him repeatedly and at your hearts content until all your stats are safely maxed out. This is the hassle-free way to raise your str and dex at the start of the game. I'm not sure how Devon will react to attacks in later scenes. I can certainly hit him a few times and find out later. Pierzak posted:Oh, and BTW, I knew about this from Nakar's LPs, which are amazing. Nakar often added dialog between Steve the Avatar and other characters to make the reading more fun. I decided that since I was going to play the dialog straight, I didn't want to use that smiley. Maybe that's a weird decision, but I really love Nakar's LPs and I felt I had to respect them. Synthbuttrange posted:That's one way to move on up in the world. Lothian's not the only leader of a magical order who's going to die in this game. This usually leads to a Sudden Promotion.
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Mar 21, 2019 11:13
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I really enjoy this game. It's a shame the scope seems so small, but it really is effective in setting the mood and driving home that this really isn't Britannia and plays by a very different set of rules.
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Mar 21, 2019 13:56
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I hope those restore sight scrolls are written in braille, or you might have issues with them.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:17
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Soul Reaver posted:He must have annoyed Berem because the town Sorcerer/cop does not swoop in to blow you up if you do this.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:45
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The triggers for calling Beren are a bit wonky. Monsters DO NOT attack neutral NPCs, so you can get weird situations like trolls walking right alongside peasants. This means the programmers didn't think to check for damage sources that aren't the player. When doing my exploratory playthrough, I was standing near a peasant, when a ghost threw an explosive skull at me. The blast hit the peasant, and he called Beren. Beren blew me up. Beren can get into fights with monsters, though. I attacked a peasant near a troll. The peasant called Beren, who blew me up. The explosion seemed to have aggro'd the troll, who started beating on Beren. Beren started fighting the troll using magic. I have some footage of this, but the best parts are blocked by my loving tombstone. When I get to hackmover and the debug menu, I want to see if non-creature damage sources cause the people to call Beren. I want to create a campfire and drop a peasant on it to see what he does. Beren can also be a bit weird about what property belongs to him. When I was recording the segment on stealing his coins, I got him to blow me up for moving my own coins in my own backpack. It IS possible to kill Beren. It involves messing with his pathing (using blocking objects like pieces of wood) to force him to drown himself in his own pond. Beren is a required NPC for some cutscenes later in the game, so we'll have to hold off on any plans to murder him. Orcs and Ostriches posted:I hope those restore sight scrolls are written in braille, or you might have issues with them. Pierzak posted:I suspect the city's attitude to Devon is "if you have to kill him, we won't mind, but do it discreetly so the guard doesn't have to get involved" Jason Sextro posted:I really enjoy this game. It's a shame the scope seems so small, but it really is effective in setting the mood and driving home that this really isn't Britannia and plays by a very different set of rules.
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Mar 21, 2019 23:29
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You can also disarm Beren by bugging out his attempt to execute you. http://www.it-he.org/u8_hang.php
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Mar 22, 2019 01:27
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If I can do it right, we'll be bugging out our death during the Devastation spell when we talk about that.
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Mar 22, 2019 01:50
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RichardA posted:You can also disarm Beren by bugging out his attempt to execute you. http://www.it-he.org/u8_hang.php 
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Mar 22, 2019 02:40
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 I've gotten a basic understanding of the usecode for Ultima 8. It would be possible, with a better understanding of the format, to rewrite entire dialog trees and even add new entities to the game. Edit: I don't want to flood the thread with posts, so: I have the writeup done for the next update. Expect it to be posted sometime tomorrow. TerraGoetia fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 03:29
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The Necromancer’s Apprentice The Ceremony of Eternity has just ended, and we rise to our feet before Vividos, the Necromancer. You may now greet the Necromancer, my friend, for I am he. You are the Necromancer? I am now. With Lothian’s passage, I step forward and take her place. As Lothian’s Scion, I was next in the Necromantic line of succession. What is a Scion? A Scion is the Necromancer’s chosen successor. It is normal for the Necromancer’s first apprentice to be the Scion. It is sad to say, but I was Lothian’s only apprentice. Now, I am in need of an apprentice. Why were you the only apprentice? It is as I have said: many people fear us, and many more can not live so demanding and structured life as is necessary of one who serves the Mountain King. Why do people fear you? Many people are ignorant and do not understand what we do. They think that we live with corpses and that we are diseased. All of this is foolishness. You need an apprentice? Yes, I do. While we are on this subject, it occurs to me that you are a man of exceptional qualities, both physical and spiritual. Would you wish to become my apprentice? Yes, I am honored. Good, then it is so done. As my apprentice, I would have you begin your studies immediately. Much must be learned before one can wield the magic of a Necromancer. I’ll learn magic? Indeed you will, my apprentice. By the time that you have completed your studies, you will be capable of more than you ever dreamed possible. What must I do? First you must gather some reagents for me. Return them to me and I will teach you of their magical properties. There will be other tasks to follow. If you accomplish all of them correctly, then I shall make you my apprentice, and most likely, the Scion. After that, you shall make a pilgrimage. A pilgrimage? Do not concern yourself with that now. There is much that must be done before you may even think about your holy pilgrimage. What reagents do you need? I need for you to bring me a sample of Executioner’s Hood from a place of danger and fallen sticks from a place where spirits roam. Where spirits roam? Yes, that is very important. Go to Western Tenebrae. There you will find the sticks, better known as ‘deadman’s elbows,’ that I need. What does Executioner’s Hood look like? It is a black, leafy plant. It grows nearby, between the Graveyard and Tenebrae. Look for the hood under a large tree. It is a rare plant, so look closely. These items are -magical-? Each taken individually, the item’s magical properties are inert. However, when blended together under the proper conditions and intonements, their magical qualities are unlocked. All of this you will learn in time. There is much to learn. Indeed there is, apprentice. That is why you must consult the library freely and often. There you will learn much of our order, our history, and our magic. Where is the library? It is located just upstairs. Feel free to use it at any time. I expect to see you there quite often. Will you help me learn? Yes, of course, my student. It is part of my responsibility to teach you all that I know. Farewell. Farewell, apprentice.We’ve got our foot in the door of the necromantic order now. Death and Earth magics are typically my favorite schools of magic in games that allow them. As cool as it would be to have the Avatar don the grey robes and commune with the spirits, we can’t forget that the Guardian is currently attacking our friends in Britannia. We must learn the power of necromancy so we can find a way off this world and back home.   Vividos’s task is not so hard. In fact, we already know where the the Executioner’s Hoods are. We found them in Update 3 in the Cemetery Road map. Let’s pick them up on the way back. For now, we head down the Cemetery Road, intent on visiting West Tenebrae.  We are stopped by the guards along the way. Hold, stranger! What is the problem? That is what I wish to ask you! What do you know about Bentic the Scholar? We have spoken. Then know this: for conducting forbidden research, Bentic’s head rests deep within the realm of the Lurker upon the command of the Lady Mordea. Know also that as his confidant all of your actions are under observation. Now answer this: what do you know of the fisherman named Devon? I have met him. Then let me also inform you that he has been placed under arrest and imprisoned. For your association with him you are also under suspicion. Be very careful whom you choose as friends from now on. Why was Devon arrested? I do not have such answers. Ask him yourself! May I go now? Yes, I have no more questions. Be off with you, and stay clear of trouble! We need to make a detour from Vividos’s task and figure out what’s going on with our friends. Mordea and Salkind will probably know what’s happening, but approaching them directly might arouse suspicion. We do know that Salkind has a Book of Punishments at his home. Let’s read it and see if anything has been added about Bentic.  Aside from Salkind’s usual trumped up charges, we lean that Bentic’s research is being held as evidence. Let’s visit the Palace and see if we can find out more.   We head through the barracks and into the basement.  We can see that Bentic’s journal has been placed in that room with no obvious entrance. Search all you like, there is no switch to lower these walls. Perhaps there is a magical solution that will allow us to reach the journal.  We find Devon in the jail. Note that I forgot to kill the skellot on screen.  If you take damage during a conversation, or take too long to respond to someone, they can become agitated. Here’s what Devon has to say, with the interruptions edited out: Hello there, TerraGoetia. What is going on? I am not sure, my friend, though I must admit I am pleased to see you. My good friend, Bentic, has been… executed. And I, myself, jailed. Yet no one will tell me why. Why, TerraGoetia. Why are these needless deaths happening? Please, TerraGoetia, you must find this out for me. I beg your assistance. What was Bentic doing that warranted death? Certainly Salkind has some explanation. He will not speak to me here, but perhaps you will find him in kind enough spirits to answer a few questions. I will help. At the moment, I can offer you only my eternal gratitude. But I hope one day to repay you for the kindness and courage you are sharing. Good luck, my friend. Goodbye. Farewell, friend TerraGoetia, and good luck.We’re not going to talk to Salkind. We already know Bentic was killed for forbidden research, and that the research is down here in the palace basement. We just need to find a way to get it, so we can figure out how to help Devon. We need magic to solve this problem. We know from the Tomb of Moriens that the introductory Necromancy spells are Open Earth and Death Speak. Maybe we can use Open Earth to open the wall? That sounds like a good bet. Let’s finish up Vividos’s task and then return here.  We make our way to West Tenebrae. Note that I am not going to cover this map in detail yet. I want to wait until we are ready to cover the Ghost Armor quest to fully explore West Tenebrae.   From the southern entrance, we head North, gradually bearing West until we discover a dirt road.  Here we find a ruined home. A ghost appears as we approach. Ghosts are serious enemies for a few reasons: -They have a ranged attack. -They can not be hurt by ordinary weapons. -When they appear, they often call up to three ghouls to support them. -They have roughly double the health of a skeleton.  With all of that in mind, we are not going to fight this ghost. We’re going to grab a dead man’s elbow and get the gently caress out of here. We only need one. Deadman’s elbows are a necromantic reagent, as Vividos says, but they’re not actually used for any spells we get access to in this game. Why they’re not used is an unanswered question. There is speculation that there was supposed to be an upper tier of necromancy spells that we would learn. It’s possible then that deadman’s elbows were a reagent for cut spells. It’s also possible that the designers decided that there were enough necromantic reagents, and blood and bone were more interesting than sticks.  Backtracking to the Cemetery Road, we head to the changeling pit we found earlier.  Changelings are no challenge to us at this point.  We grab all of the executioner’s hoods. These are actually used for spells we will learn.  When we get back to Vividos, put all of the executioner’s hoods EXCEPT ONE on the ground. Vividos is programmed to take all of the deadman’s elbows and executioner’s hoods we have, and we wanna keep those hoods for ourselves. Hello again, my friend. I have brought you the reagents, Necromancer. Give them to me. You have done well, my apprentice. For your efforts and your obvious learning, I have something for you. This is the Key of the Caretaker. It will allow you entry into the Upper Catacombs. There you must go to learn more of our art. What is the Key of the Caretaker? The Key is an item of power which will allow you to case the spells which you will learn in the Catacombs. In order to cast spells, you must place the proper reagents in a bag, close the bag, and then invoke the power of the key on the closed bag. When you open the bag, you will find a magic talisman within. When you invoke the magic of the talisman, you cast the spell. Where are the upper catacombs? You will find the entrance to the catacombs through the very rock itself. You will need the Open Earth spell, which you can find in the library, and the Key of the Caretaker. Go you then just north of here. There you will find a small hall. Cast the Open Earth spell upon the rock face and you shall gain entrance to the catacombs. The spell is in the library? Yes, there you will find much that will help you. For in order that you may speak to the Necromancers, there is another spell which you must learn. What other spell? As the Necromancers are, to be certain, dead, you must cast Death Speak upon their sacred corpses. Only then shall you hear the voices of wisdom from their lifeless mouths. This spell you shall also find in the library. What is there that will help me? In the library, there are books of knowledge. Not only spells that you must learn, but also the history of our Necromantic order. In the library you will also find many reagents which you may use when learning to cast spells. What is in the Catacombs? There you will find the ancient Necromancers. Those who traveled the path of the Necromancer long before you or I. My ancient ancestors will teach you what you need to know of our magic. Can you not teach me magic? I can, and in years to come I will. However, the first level of spells you must learn from the ancient Necromancers. Those who first created the spells that you will learn will teach them to you. If you pass their tests, you will learn their magic. Then you must come back to me. How am I to find them? With good faith and a strong heart. Do not worry, apprentice. The Ancient Necromancers will make themselves known to you. Farewell. Farewell, apprentice.We have our next task, and more importantly, the ability to cast Necromantic spells. We don’t want to visit the ancient Necromancers right away—going into the Catacombs unprepared is practically suicide. What Vividos doesn’t tell you is that you already know all of the spells the ancient Necromancers are going to teach you, anyway. All of the Necromantic spells you will learn in the course of Pagan are in the Chronicle of Pagan, a booklet which shipped with the game. If you got a later release, such as the Ultima Collection, it was included as a PDF on the CD. It’s available as an added download if you got the GoG version. I’ve heard people say “The game won’t let you cast the spells until you learn them from the ancient Necromancers!” This is baloney. In my testing I made a Summon Dead spell totem minutes after talking to Vividos. I’m going to list the spells of Necromancy here by name, and give the reagents you would need to cast them. However, we won’t be casting them in this LP until the Avatar properly learns them. I think it keeps more to the spirit of the game. The Spells of Necromancy
I’ll provide commentary on each spell as we learn it and cast it. For now, we know Open Earth/Ground, Death Speak, and Call Quake. Open Earth is used at specific times in the plot and nowhere else. The lore mentions its use in shaping graves, but this only applies in exactly one case later on. I tried casting the spell in the Cemetery in front of various, unimportant graves, and the spell does nothing. Death Speak is solely used to speak to some of the ancient Necromancers. I say “some” because, due to a bug in the dialog, there are a few you can speak with without even casting this spell. Call Quake is just godawful. It shakes the whole screen, causing everyone to randomly fall over. This includes the Avatar, so you can hardly take advantage of the spell. It doesn’t even do any damage. I ran into the bar in West Tenebrae and cast Call Quake in front of the counter. No one even bothered to call Beren. It DOES shift people and things around, so it can be a fun diversion to cause the palace guards to flop all over the floor. These spells just speak to the wasted potential of Necromancy in this game. Compare Death Speak to the Conjure Spirit spell from the Necromantic Black school in the game Arcanum. In that game, you could kill an NPC, and then cast Conjure Spirit to raise their ghost. In an evil run, you could even kill plot essential NPCs and extract critical information from their ghosts, progressing the story. It would have been nice to be able to do something similar with Death Speak, to call up the ghosts of the dead and forgotten to enrich the story and make progress. Why doesn’t Open Earth also open graves or help uncover buried treasure? Many RPGs, like Fallout 2, included graveyards the player could choose to dig up. I’m playing Divinity: Original Sin with someone, and we found a shovel to be an essential companion in that game. In Pagan, you’ll only need about five castings of Open Earth to beat the game. Why does Call Quake suck so much? It does nothing to give you an advantage over your enemies, and it costs four reagents. Add a drop of blood to the same bag and you can create a loving golem that hits harder than a daemon, is immune to fire, and can be as resilient as a troll. It’s a waste of reagents to even consider Call Quake when you can have a dump truck full of death rise up and rip your enemies in half. Okay. Okay. Calm. Breathe. Do not go on a three page rant about what Necromancy should have been.   We’ve got the power of Necromancy at our fingertips. Maybe we can use some of this magic to save Devon. We create an Open Ground talisman and head back to the Palace. Note that mana is not consumed when we create the token; it's used up when we double click the token to cast the spell.  We stand before the sealed evidence chamber and double click our Open Ground talisman…  and nothing happens. Necromancy isn’t going to save Devon. There is an alternative. Bentic mentioned Mythran, the mysterious mage of the Plateau. Maybe he has some resources for us. Next time, we explore the valley, cross through the Plateau Cave, and find Mythran.
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Mar 22, 2019 12:32
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Every time you go through Salkind's Book of Punishments all I can think of is that HENRY offenses gif.
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Mar 22, 2019 12:58
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TerraGoetia posted:Okay. Okay. Calm. Breathe. Do not go on a three page rant about what Necromancy should have been. Nah, 
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Mar 22, 2019 18:40
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Yea it is too bad that a bunch of the necro spells are poo poo. The fake death spell is actually extremely useful when you're just playing the game casually, because if you wander into something dangerous and haven't been obsessively saving it can be pretty painful. I can't recall if it breaks if you use items or not, fake death and a bunch of explody gem could be potentially hilarious. The functional way the magic works is pretty solid I always thought: take an emergent mechanic from the ultima games (piles of bags inside your backpack) and have a slower more complicated system result in something you can also use quickly for combat. They also managed to avoid the biggest potential exploit by having the mana cost apply when you use the totem instead of create it. The whole thing just has so much atmosphere around it that I really liked it even with stuff like earthquake being worthless.
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Mar 22, 2019 18:49
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I was very impressed in the day that every one of the dozens of tombstones in the graveyard has a unique and often clever epitaph.
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Mar 22, 2019 22:17
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...I just found my third keyring, did the patch put more of them in or something?
Pierzak fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 22:46
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I'll hold off commenting on Necromancy until we've seen TerraGoetia do some Necromancing.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:01
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Hobologist posted:I was very impressed in the day that every one of the dozens of tombstones in the graveyard has a unique and often clever epitaph. I actually have a hard time reading the tombstones in this game due to the lack of contrast between the engraved letters and the stone itself. It kinda hurts my eyes. That's a 'me' problem, and not a game problem. If there is an interest in the thread for reading these tombstones, I can probably extract them from the usecode so I don't go blind.
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Mar 22, 2019 23:35
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Pagan was my first and (only) direct impact with the Ultima saga, after reading and hearing wonders about it. Obviously I failed to feel the appeal, but it was a nice game. Only after quite time I'd have discovered the REAL causes of this game shortcomings... Hobologist posted:I was very impressed in the day that every one of the dozens of tombstones in the graveyard has a unique and often clever epitaph. Guy Fawkes fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 23, 2019 |
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Mar 23, 2019 00:35
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I've added a link to Pagan The Beautiful in the OP. This (admittedly old) site has large, full-color maps of the game areas. I figured this would be an aid to readers who want to track the Avatar's movements in this LP... and it saves me the effort of having to create maps myself! If you have any links you might feel to be vital to the reader, let me know, and I'll possibly add them to the OP. Stats and game information are helpful. Walkthroughs and bug/glitch reports are not, since I'll likely be covering all of that in actual updates. And as always, if there is anything you think should be shown in an upcoming update, or if you have any mechanics experiments I should perform, please let me know so I can work on it. I've got the screenshots I want for the next update. I just need to do the writeup. I am hoping to plow through it Sunday night. As a note: the next storyline cutscene is kinda long. Capturing the key frames and the dialog amounts to about 80 screenshots. As such, I think the best move is for it to be its own update with no writeup for it. Expect: Sunday (Update including the Valley, Plateau Cave, Mythran, and Bentic's Journal). Sunday - Monday (Storyline Cutscene Update) Possibly Friday? (The Lost Vale Cut Content Discussion) We have a lot of ground to cover in the coming week. I need to do some additional reading of the Lost Vale Documents and Lord British interviews in my downtime. TerraGoetia fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Mar 23, 2019 |
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Mar 23, 2019 07:17
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TerraGoetia posted:I've added a link to Pagan The Beautiful in the OP. This (admittedly old) site has large, full-color maps of the game areas OTOH, the maps do lose a lot in higher resolution, they are simpler and way more regular than it seems in the game. TerraGoetia posted:If there is an interest in the thread for reading these tombstones, I can probably extract them from the usecode so I don't go blind. ...I mean, in the code.
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Mar 23, 2019 17:46
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Pierzak posted:Yes there is. Get digging. No, no, TerraGoetia is a certified Necromancer now. Digging up the cemetery is part of the training.
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Mar 23, 2019 18:28
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Just posting to note that I’ve been following the SSLP and am enjoying it. Pagan was the first Ultima game I ever played (and never beat - I’m bad at platforming) and it is nice stroll back in time.
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Mar 23, 2019 20:33
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Pierzak posted:Oh gently caress yes. I'm getting lost enough as it is. I was actually about to ask for composite maps. I can tell you that it's hard not to get lost, even if you have the maps. Ultima VIII is sometimes a bewildering game
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Mar 23, 2019 21:54
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