Stadia: How Stadia Pro Users Were SHOCKED with CRAZY stealth drop!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stadia: How Stadia Pro Users Were SHOCKED with CRAZY stealth drop!

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Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

hostile apostle posted:

As I said before, stream services don't have to replace traditional PC gaming to be successful but they can make gaming more accessible and open to a broader audience. Stadia being a success is going to take away your precious autochess or whatever other games you want to play.

No they dont, and can't. Streamed gaming is at the mercy of your internet infrastructure, and that "broader audience" is not gonna be in the small margin that actually has proper fibre internet. That doesn't even cover metered internet plans.

Stadia would've been a much stronger concept if Google hadn't dropped Google Fibre like a hot potato. Instead, you're stuck at the whims of the likes of Comcast.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 07:56

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 04:21

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

track day bro! posted:

I wonder if google will invest in the hardware as time goes by, as surely that would be an advantage with cloud stuff. If this is still going in two years time the current hardware is pretty much just a mid range gaming pc from 2017, so will be lagging behind the ps5 or whatever. Will they put the money in to upgrade everything?

"Investing in the hardware" doesn't mean poo poo for streamed gaming. What's actually crucial is what's between you and Google. Which A; Google almost certainly doesn't own or have influence over outside of the abandoned project that was Google Fibre, and B; can be literally anything from a satellite connection, dodgy decades-old copper, all the way to full Fibre to the Premises/Home (Or a crippling mix of the above). If it's not Fibre to the Home, then you're hosed and Google can do literally nothing about it short of driving their own fibre to your home.

Which they don't do anymore.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 14:15

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Lambert posted:

With a new Xbox (with a new controller) coming next year, I'd simply wait it out. The Elite 2 controller has horrendous build quality problems. But if I had to, I'd buy the regular Xbox One gamepad again. I have the Windows version that comes with a little USB dongle, but it also works over Bluetooth (but my PC doesn't have that).

There's actually two models of the regular XBox controllers and only the latter works with Bluetooth. The old model should be well and truly cleared out by now, but it's worth making sure of what you're getting if you see a bargain. If the plastic around the XBox button is NOT a separate piece from the rest of the faceplate, you're good.

Glenn Quebec posted:

I'm in the market for a new controller and was eyeing the elite. What's the better alternative if I don't like DS4s?

The Nintendo Switch Pro controller is a good solid gamepad and natively recognized by Steam if you connect it via USB cable or sync via a Bluetooth adapter.

Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Nov 27, 2019

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 15:06

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

hostile apostle posted:

Apples and oranges, you can still play your ten year old PC games on your brand new PC with new graphics card without the developer patching the game can't you?

Because it's not obfuscated through Stadia's system, which is a couple extra layers to contend with that CAN break compatibility.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 16:45

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

univbee posted:

Gave Stadia another shake from work via Destiny 2 and it looks like it might be working better now, more like Geforce Now's lag. Interesting. Will have to try again with my home setup and controller since that's where the lag was at its worst.

Your work internet is probably a dedicated fibre line. What do you have at home?

# ¿ Nov 27, 2019 17:46

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

BONESAWWWWWW posted:

If anything all this Stadia talk makes me think I should invest in an Xbox. What I hear so far of xCloud sounds like the smarter way to do this kind of thing (I guess that's a low bar though)

PS4's a better go; Far more games and (if streamed gaming is THAT important) PSNow lets you download titles if they're PS4-compatible. Sony already learned the hard way not everyone has fibre internet.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2019 01:35

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Vegetable posted:

They should make it Netfix-style. Pay a massive fee to license games from studios and make every game available and free to all subscribers. It�d be a huge amount of money but it�d also be least painful.

Lol, no. Being offered that much money by Google would just make the publishers see blood in the water and tack on their own lovely streamed services.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2019 07:56

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

limaCAT posted:

You haven't seen star citizen fans.

Are they still "there's probably gonna be actual suicides when the game tanks and their hopes are crushed :ohdear:

" bad or have they mellowed since?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2019 08:14

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cardiovorax posted:

I mean, this isn't wrong. It's fundamentally the same reason why Youtube is a video streaming site instead of a video download site, which it could also have been. Being able to start watching/playing something right away without a lengthy waiting period appeals to a lot of people. It doesn't make Stadia less of a lovely implementation, but there's a legitimate niche there.

"Streamed video" like YouTube actually isn't. It's sneakily downloading to your PC as a temporary file and then erasing itself with the rest of the cache. Your connection can be pretty crap, but so long as you've got just enough bandwidth to download (and re-download errored/dropped packets) fast enough it'll look perfectly fine to you. Try the same with a game and you have no buffering between you and the quality of your connection.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2019 14:48

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

leftist heap posted:

lmfao at wondering if google is somehow negotiating with ISPs to get their dumb bullshit exempted

To be fair, some services like Spotify and Netflix will do that.

Google Stadia will probably be long dead before they even consider talking to the likes of ComCast.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 02:04

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Lambert posted:

It's called zero-rating and it's bad because it means established services will have an easier time competing against new services. And, to ISPs, it's holding their customers hostage for more revenue.

As a customer, I don't want my ISP to dictate what services I should use because they are zero-rated.

As a customer you don't have a choice about being stuck on an outdated concept like limited monthly downloads, which is your actual problem.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 02:16

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

...! posted:

Huh. I was under the impression that ISPs (especially Comcast) hate streaming, which is a huge part of why they're pushing back so hard against net neutrality: they want to be allowed to throttle the gently caress out of Netflix traffic.

If that's not true, that's pretty drat interesting...

I just used Comcast as a general US ISP example, rather than something they actually do or do not do tbh. More specifically; in Australia there are phone plans that have free Spotify and Netflix usage.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 02:23

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

leftist heap posted:

true enough, but lol at the idea that google planned Stadia well enough to do that

I have nothing to say one way or another, but I wonder if Stadia was originally slated as part of, or in parallel, with Google Fibre but it just kept on going when Google Fibre got axed.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 03:38

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cardiovorax posted:

I just found out that with the new Steam Link software, I can use any and all of my Android devices in combination with my new Steam controller to play my entire installed library anywhere in my home whenever the hell I feel like it. Stadia can go suck it with its wide range of five entire supported devices.

Why would you willingly subject yourself to a trackpad over a thumbstick? :ohdear:

# ¿ Dec 3, 2019 02:48

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cardiovorax posted:

It was literally five dollars on a clearance sale because Valve is ceasing production of the things.

But yeah, it's a bit weird to get used to. Not sure I really think it's all that great.

There's a reason they're $5 and Valve aren't making them anymore :v:

# ¿ Dec 3, 2019 08:35

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

univbee posted:

Correct. There are two main technical barriers specific to game streaming (that you don't have when just streaming audio or video passively like with Netflix/YouTube/Podcasts etc. even for live events), both of which have the same core problem.

Due to the interactive nature of the medium (i.e. you press a button and that manipulates something on the remote end, the "outcome" isn't pre-determined), this means the following sequence has to happen with as little turnaround time as possible:

- User (you) presses a button, let's say a jump button.
- Signal is transmitted to the remote server. This costs ping time. The action is performed on this server (your character jumps).
- The audio/video signal has to be compressed as quickly as possible (uncompressed data rates are insane and completely unworkable for this purpose, so this is a necessary step), which means using very quick compression algorithms that can't take advantage of the efficiencies you get from an encode for something pre-recorded.
- Said AV signal has to be sent back to you the player's device, so you see what happens.

Assuming the server technology is very good, you need the fastest ping time possible to the server, the faster the better. All the upload/download speed in the world won't help you if your ping times are through the roof.

You can sometimes work around/mitigate these issues if the game is the type where a precise set of known-in-advance inputs are the only correct win sequence, and deviation is counted as a loss. Think the old LaserDisc games like Dragon's Lair, or Dance Dance Revolution.

Now with video streaming like YouTube/Netflix, ping time largely doesn't matter, and you can also take advantage of these services caching several seconds of video so connection hiccups don't make the video stutter. You know how if you lose your internet while you're watching a video it'll keep playing for several seconds until it actually stops playing? This is why. However with games you can't precache what's going to happen in the next 10 seconds as that entirely depends on what buttons you push. You're also at the mercy of your ping times. Even a good ping can be miserable to play on if it's not consistent. Like you know how in Punch-Out!! there's counterattacks that have to be done with precise timing, and you get into a timing rhythm where you're like "OK, Super Macho Man just started spinning, I have to start a dodge in 0.5 seconds." Now on a local console, that timing is consistent. On a streaming connection it probably won't be, because even with a stable connection the exact amount of time the signal takes to go client->server->client can vary pretty significantly for no reason whatsoever, and a lot of what can create a tiny delay could be poo poo in between you and the server you have no control over at all. Mind you, we know Thumper is a game with similar reaction requirements and it appears Stadia's version is more forgiving timing-wise because of this.

The thing with network infrastructure especially for consumers is that low ping times, especially the extremely low ping times demanded by gamers, don't matter for most users, especially on a cell phone, so low and steady ping times weren't exactly a priority with most cell technology, because is anyone really going to notice if their text or email arrived 2 or 3 seconds later than it could have with a lower ping? Twitch streams are usually like 45 seconds late from the events actually transpiring, but most of the time people don't notice (but it can make for amusing incidents if someone calls in, for example).

The more important factor is that your streaming game service cannot actually do anything to fix network problems. They're built around what's functionally the old "spherical egg in a vacuum" mode for ideal network conditions, and the actual network between your device and their servers is both anything but and owned by a third party who gives zero fucks about optimal network infrastructure design because it's expensive.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2019 03:30

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

hostile apostle posted:

So your response to my question is just to spout nonsense. They seem perfectly playable to me and others in this thread who have actually used the service

You didn't answer my question about how you define convenience.

Person A is not Person B. The people who it works for have better internet connections than the ones who it doesn't work for. As it is not consistently viable for users based on using Stadia alone vs purchasing a console or PC, it is less convenient for gameplay.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2019 08:03

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

hostile apostle posted:

Forbes reviewer, who skewered Stadia on release, is a believer now:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2019/12/04/third-times-the-charm-how-google-and-i-finally-fixed-stadia-on-chromecast/#235d0aa154fe

If anyone wants to genuinely try out Stadia - PM me and I'll send you a buddy pass. EDIT: gone

quote:

I am paying for 500 Mbps internet

This is the key factor of why it worked for him. It's not surprising that hardwiring it right into a fibre internet connection made it work.

quote:

they told me my Chromecast was only getting ~15-20 Mbps.

This is what most people are gonna be working with. If they're lucky. That's not even getting into latency.

edit:

Canine Blues Arooo posted:

This is wired on a 300/30 connection.

Just out of curiosity, did you get Fibre to the Premises/Home, or Fibre to the Node?

Neddy Seagoon fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Dec 5, 2019

# ¿ Dec 5, 2019 05:02

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

well why not posted:

perhaps all of life is a store and we are the products.

That's Facebook's MO, not Google's.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2019 07:54

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

The last comment reads like someone in an Amazon uniform is pointing a gun at their loved ones while they furiously type that into Reddit.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2019 09:27

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

uvar posted:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%203-m&geo=US&q=google%20stadia

The launch is over and the interest is gone, I bet there's some managers in Google who are looking for a new department before it's too late

I reckon someone's getting a lateral promotion into a "sit-here-until-you-quit" job for this, if not an outright firing. Going from zero to hype right back to zero in a week is about as bad as you can get.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2019 02:37

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

okay but don't you want to live in a future where you can buy a $3000 virtual spaceship in a game that doesn't quite exist on a platform where you have to pay for monthly access?

A game that doesn't exist is perfect for a platform that soon won't exist.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2019 01:23

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

doingitwrong posted:

Xbox promised the partial downloads for this generation and what we got was a few games that let you play a first level and A LOT of games these said “READY TO START” but all that meant was looking at a title screen.

If they can manage to xCloud into reasonable transition into play the game I could see it working well. You start playing right away at lower specs and when you stop playing for the night it keeps downloading and when you wake up the next day it’s all good. Eliminates the small pain of waiting a few hours for the GBs to come down. I imagine it’s like how PS4 and Xbox instituted hardware pauses for this generation, so even unskippable cutscenes could be paused by going to the dashboard. We’ll get console mandated partial downloads instead of relying on game makers.

I wouldn't think the math would be in its favour, surely? It'd need bandwidth for streaming AND downloading simultaneously at a decent rate.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2019 17:01

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

...! posted:

Wow, the general mood in the Stadia subreddit after the awards show turned to despair almost frighteningly quickly. They're starting to ask each other if Stadia is DOA.

Are Google still astro-turfing the subreddit with positive posts?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2019 15:21

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Gobbeldygook posted:

Doesn't Australia have near-universal strict bandwidth caps?

No, we have plans available with unlimited bandwidth with most providers.

What fucks up things like streamed gaming is the NBN having been a cheap shitshow and loving over a lot of areas with Fibre to the Node. With the Node in question being far enough away that the copper between there and your home being a bottleneck. Thankfully they've started using a newer method for newer rollouts (Fibre to the Curb) that's just running fibre all the way to the streets outside homes, and copper from there (which is far more reasonable).

That doesn't help regional areas getting satellite or wireless internet though.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2019 03:36

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Zaodai posted:

Courtesy of mrEkli on Discord, give the gift that keeps on giving you additional, "clearly white" footnotes:

^¹ Provided the Service lasts three months
^² We probably cheaped out on the plastic, so it's about as white as it can get for the price.
^³ Because it burned out the one you already owned while trying the beta.
^⁴ "Up to 4K" technically includes the 720p it actually streams at, so it's not wrong.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2019 15:16

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Anyone else read that in Steve Buscemi's voice?

"How do you do, fellow 20-something parents?"

# ¿ Dec 16, 2019 06:22

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

"I'm not owned! I'm not owned!" I scream as I close my stuttering streamed game's browser window, accidentally catching a brief sinful glimpse of a lag-free console's radiance in the next already-opened tab, retreating to the safety of the bathroom to play on my ideal platform; sitting on the toilet with a tiny phone screen.

No, here it is I that has truly won the day over those playing on consoles with 30+ screens and no latency.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2019 01:56

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cemetry Gator posted:

You know, I've never once in my life have ever been on the toilet and thought to myself "I should get some gaming in."

I don't get toilet readers or phone users.

And I disrespect toilet conversationalists.

Some managers and workplaces expect you to be eyes-forward working at 110% for the entire time you're at work. Mental breaks? Socializing with coworkers? The company isn't PAYING you for that. Work your eight hours straight through, peasant! :toughguy:

# ¿ Dec 17, 2019 02:07

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

...! posted:

quote:

1. People with crap Internet
2. People with good Internet who don't know how to set things properly.
3. People with data caps. Why would you live somewhere that caps your data? I won't. I refuse. It's inhumane.
4. Microsoft and Sony pay people to pan it.
5. People who are nostalgic and hate the idea that they don't "own" any games. I'm a player, not a collector, so it really doesn't bother me. I'll fire up my C=64 emulator any time I want that experience.

I like how they get so close to grasping the problem and still it flies over their head.

# ¿ Dec 17, 2019 14:05

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

...! posted:

You know, I would imagine just from the way Stadia works that it's actually not possible for two people to play on the same screen for any game. You'd have to pay for two Stadia accounts, two copies of the game and have two screens and use two simultaneous Stadia streams.

If that's correct, local co-op will be prohibitively expensive for all games.

For a game that actually has local co-op/multiplayer it should work fine. Well as "Fine" as Stadia can, anyway. The only thing extra it needs to do is compress multiple player inputs into one data stream and unpack them at the far end.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 05:20

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cemetry Gator posted:

Also, at some point, diminishing returns come in. I have good eyesight, and 4k is just a tad bit sharper than 1080p for me. The real selling point is the HDR color. But your average person at their average viewing distance, they won't get much out of 4k. And there's next to nothing that is available in 8k. It's only been recently that filmmakers started doing their work at 4k for movies on the digital side for the most part. For film, 4k just about maxes out the resolution for 35mm. It's only stuff shot on large formats, like 2001 that would benefit from 8k.

Also 95% of the devices that Stadia is gonna be used on (phone, basic desktop monitors, cheap TV's) can't actually do a 4K resolution.

If Stadia's a cheap option for the average person, why would anyone reasonably expect them to have an expensive investment like a 4/8K television and not a current-gen console if they have an interest in videogames?

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 16:48

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Cardiovorax posted:

https://curiosity.com/topics/how-many-megapixels-is-the-human-eye-curiosity/

It's not really a question that makes sense, because the eye is neither a camera nor a computer screen - but in as far as it does, there really is an absolute upper limit to how fine a detail our eyes are capable of usefully perceiving and we're pretty much about to reach it.

Going past it might not be that bad a thing (not by a LOT, but a bit still). Wouldn't it ensure you're seeing the best image quality, because it's consistently dumping out a video image that your eyes can consistently see to the best of their ability?

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 16:58

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

hostile apostle posted:

And yes, you can each stream on separate TVs/PCs and play together, if you feel so inclined lol

Double your bandwidth usage and double the fun for half the time till you hit your data cap! :v:

# ¿ Dec 18, 2019 17:25

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

limaCAT posted:

My phone just exploded after entering that code and I cracked the toilet on which I was going to test 4k 60hz gaming. Thank you rear end in a top hat,

You're supposed to test it on fibre internet, not a fiber diet.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2019 08:33

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

univbee posted:

https://twitter.com/verge/status/1207316414836740096?s=20

I like how they completely gloss over the fact that they had the best internet connection possible, still had stuttering, and most people won't have ideal connections to begin with.

But clearly the lack of games is the biggest concern.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2019 15:24

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Out of curiosity, have any in the subreddit started calling for VR games yet?

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 02:13

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Look, it worked in their test lab on direct fibre connections AND at test sites hooked up to Google Fibre. It'll clearly work anywhere, it's fine, push it to customers!

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 06:55

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Barudak posted:

Man I cant wait to see who Facebook buys to counter this move for their streaming platform

They're currently busy buying up VR game companies and wanting to harvest sweet, sweet, biometric metadata and AI-processed opinions in realtime with Facebook Horizon.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 08:13

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 04:21

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Should've asked him how the net is there at the airport, and if he's playing Destiny 2 or Borderlands 3.

# ¿ Dec 20, 2019 17:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stadia: How Stadia Pro Users Were SHOCKED with CRAZY stealth drop!

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