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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


IllegallySober posted:

That doesn't answer the question I asked.


This is correct.

Your question is a flight of fantasy designed to confuse d2 when I flip town and possibly skew who is lunched after me.

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Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Toalpaz posted:

IF Bif isn't lying, it HAS to be Sal despite how much credit he's bought with that vig.

All I'm saying is there's a good chance night actions aren't as straight forward as we think IF you aren't lying. Like I said, I would have forced you to bodyguard me. Why couldn't scum also have similar re-directing powers.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Toalpaz posted:

Your question is a flight of fantasy designed to confuse d2 when I flip town and possibly skew who is lunched after me.

sorry not d2 whatever day is after this one.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Focus on the math here. 4 town claim actions that mean they didn't do the NK. Bif was attacked at night. Sal has an unverified action. The answer is staring us in our faces.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 3

Toalpaz (2): Bifauxnen, Bifauxnen, IllegallySober, Bifauxnen
Bifauxnen (1): Toalpaz, Toalpaz, Toalpaz
SalTheBard (1): Toalpaz, Toalpaz, Toalpaz, Toalpaz, Anonymous
Anomalous Amalgam (0): Mr. Humalong, Mr. Humalong

Not Voting (3): Anomalous Amalgam, Mr. Humalong, SalTheBard

With 6 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. There is currently no deadline set.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

AND Nep, who we now know is town and probably pretty forthright about their claims suggested that scum probably had OUT OF THREAD button abilities. It's a stretch, but I don't doubt it given my own abilities, and my current 1x.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Toalpaz posted:

Focus on the math here. 4 town claim actions that mean they didn't do the NK. Bif was attacked at night. Sal has an unverified action. The answer is staring us in our faces.

I'm just saying, we probably don't see the full scope of what's going on Night Action wise.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

AND Nep, who we now know is town and probably pretty forthright about their claims suggested that scum probably had OUT OF THREAD button abilities. It's a stretch, but I don't doubt it given my own abilities, and my current 1x.

given my own previous ability

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Sal seems so unlikely for scum, like the lowest percentile of players remaining assuming you are innocent.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I think bif and IS are setting town up to kill sal tomorrow is likely.

That or Sal has a partner and isnt worried about being hammered. It doesn't really make sense that Sal is comfortable with a vote on him ##vote sal

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


6 left alive, we know Bif is lying or Sal did the kill.

If Humalong is in a scum team with IS he could have faked a track and tried to kill Bif though.

##unvote

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Sal seems so unlikely for scum, like the lowest percentile of players remaining assuming you are innocent.

Night action bingo, may implicate him only because he has something unverifiable, but that's not the smoking gun! I don't know. I feel pretty strongly that you have to one of probably two final scum, but like I said... I could see this being a hard switch from IS/Hum.

Buttons Pushes are alignment null, Hum killed a town player in thread. they could have hammered, but killing that player and securing a misslynch today would be more favorable to scum, no?

All I'm saying is what I'm suggesting isn't that farfetched.

I wouldn't be opposed to a NL.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


It makes more sense because Hum would have claimed to have tracked me to the kill.

RBing me doesn't make a lot of sense because I was giving Sal guns.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

IllegallySober posted:

Sal: “I don’t want my second vote to be used as a weapon against me.”

Also Sal: Literally uses his second vote as a weapon against himself

The way I look at it it's probably Bif or Toal tonight so I feel safe putting one vote on myself.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


##vote bif

probably the best vote.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Toalpaz you are confusing the poo poo out of me with your posts. I'm honestly starting to feel like this "Sal is scum" narrative you are pushing is either flailing scum or super naive town. I think you are a very good player (as I've said multiple times in this game and in others) so this is not something I would expect from you.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Night action bingo, may implicate him only because he has something unverifiable, but that's not the smoking gun!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


\/0\/ it's important to me, if it isn't to you idk.

It should be suspicious to you that IS: who thinks Bif is my scum buddy and Bif: who thinks I'm scum. Have no reasons for thinking I'm scum beyond the fact that I have a lot of theories and opinions. I don't know who Bif thinks tried to kill her, but IS thinks Bif is lying in order to save my life and also voting and bussing me. Yet they're working together just fine and not talking about how their theories contradict each other tomorrow regardless of what alignment I flip.

Bif doesn't have any opinions on what IS is saying, and it looks like IS is going to drop the subject tomorrow to push you if you're town.

What they're doing doesn't make sense. They have no Toalpaz is scum reasons. Me seriously considering the possibility of you (sal) being scum is just town not knowing anything.

I didn't Turbo nep, no one hammered nep and I just put two votes on them. Nep was vigged 24 hours or so into the day, after intense discussion.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


##push button

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Toalpaz posted:

Your question is a flight of fantasy designed to confuse d2 when I flip town and possibly skew who is lunched after me.

No, it's a question that should be considered when we decide the dunk today.

We believe the following:

I roleblocked Toal (successful, although I'm assuming I was not somehow redirected- I have no real reason to believe such since Toal claimed to be roleblocked and Hum received part of a track that Toalpaz was visited)
Toal went nowhere (verified by Hum's partial track)
AA visited my target (per my result in Discord)

I believe the above to be 99% confirmed.

AA claims his attempted action on Toal to be a 1x elite bodyguard (side note- did AA claim the flavor name of this?)

Toal also claims his actions were loud, just like AA's. (Vignetted- which presumably made them both loud, but wasn't where the elite bodyguard came from?)

We know Nep flipped town and didn't have a kill when they flipped.

I'm accounted for by provable actions. So is Nep-Nep, Hum, and AA. That leaves Sal, Toal, and Bif. Unless you believe one of the previously-confirmed actions to have been taken by scum, that leaves two scum among those three.

If Toal isn't scum, that means Bif and Sal are.
If Bif isn't scum, that means Toal and Sal are.
If Sal isn't scum, that means Toal and Bif are.

I think given the context of the game, the third scenario is far more likely than the other two.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


So kill bif considering how I couldn't have been the killer in any scenario? It has the most chance of success assuming there are two scum left.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


If there are 2 scum left.

Bif, 2 chances of being scum.

Sal, 2 chances of being scum.

Toalpaz, 1 chance of being scum.

Bif hasn't done anything to deserve valuing lunching me over her. I don't get the push back on this.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

IllegallySober posted:


If Toal isn't scum, that means Bif and Sal are.
If Bif isn't scum, that means Toal and Sal are.
If Sal isn't scum, that means Toal and Bif are.

I think given the context of the game, the third scenario is far more likely than the other two.

3rd makes no sense since I can't see why Bif and Toal would be going at each other this hard if they were both on the same team.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

SalTheBard posted:

3rd makes no sense since I can't see why Bif and Toal would be going at each other this hard if they were both on the same team.

MAFIA EDIT: Since I know my alignment (town) the 3rd is the only one that is possible, and to me, that one doesn't seem possible since Bif and Toal are going hard in the mother loving paint against each other.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Then, if you kill Bif and she's town. You know she wasn't lying about being the target of the night kill. And because I RB'd I didn't do it! Pretty handy! A lot of info!

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


IS if you're town start on Bif. You're killing a townie here with next to no evidence when killing Bif should give you all the info town needs to win this game.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



SalTheBard posted:

MAFIA EDIT: Since I know my alignment (town) the 3rd is the only one that is possible, and to me, that one doesn't seem possible since Bif and Toal are going hard in the mother loving paint against each other.

Apart from one post made by Bif I don’t see where she’s “going hard in the mother loving paint” against anyone, Sal.

Bifauxnen posted:

Thinking Sal would hard bus that early is pretty out there. Even if the vig was unreliable, I don't think that's his style of play.

I think Toal's running out of good cases to make.

##vote Toal

btw one reason I hate relying too much on night action bingo is you can get led astray by wrong data from scum, but Toal's been playing real overconfidently about how to narrow it down to only a couple possibilities. Since scum were already trying to kill me, I expected someone to put up a fight saying my claim was just bogus. But Toal hardly considered that possibility at all even when people pointed it out, and thinks it just makes sense that I had a kill attempt on me last night. I figure Toal knows all too well that my claim is true, and didn't want to contradict it when there's a solid pair of people to point to as the "only possible" ones who could've done it.

Just like how DB and Yami got set right up and knocked down before.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Toalpaz posted:

Focus on the math here. 4 town claim actions that mean they didn't do the NK. Bif was attacked at night. Sal has an unverified action. The answer is staring us in our faces.

and you know who these townies are?

Toal, I really don't appreciate you saying I've given no reasons you're scum. You're still representing people's cases in the worst possible light at all times, just like you were when I was first casting you. I think your whole "it HAS to be Sal or Nep so vote NOW NOW NOW" push is scummy, and it reminds me a lot of how the thread followed your lead to get DB and Yami, who were both town. And now you led us to Nep, who was town. And you want to lunch either me, who is town, or Sal, who is really drat likely gonna flip town.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



I’ll leave it up to the rest of the group.

My top vote choice today is Toal.

I would switch to Bif if there isn’t enough agreement to dunk Toal.

I probably will not vote for anyone else today absent significant new info.

Taking a break from this for a few hours.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Bif playing overconfidently isn't what I was doing,

We've narrowed the people down who could have taken a killing action against you down to 2 people. You or Sal, where before it was you, Sal, or Nep Nep.

You can understand why I pushed Nep Nep once you claimed to have been the target. Sal looks townie. If you weren't lying Nep Nep is the only one who could have performed the kill on you.

Now the only person who could have performed the kill on you is Sal. And the fact that you don't seem cognizant of that point is frightening, and I think it indicates that you have another agenda beyond 'finding scum'.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


I just don't trust that the night actions are as straightforward as you want to think in this grab-bag game.

Like when people were doing up the lists of who got what power, and thinking they had poo poo accounted for? Mine was incomplete. My D2 power "Vigours" gave me a PR (which I'd completely forgotten about actually, back in the good old days of the British Empire I probably would've made a spreadsheet all about everybody's results and never forgotten anything!), but the PR wasn't the power.

The actual power was the ability to use an action twice. Which wasn't too helpful when I only had a passive, but it sure got me wondering what else could be out there.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


One action a night is a pretty big rule and it isn't speculation, if you're town the only person who had the opportunity to kill you is Sal. I don't think that there are any 'visit someone and kill someone' actions.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Toalpaz posted:

Now the only person who could have performed the kill on you is Sal. And the fact that you don't seem cognizant of that point is frightening, and I think it indicates that you have another agenda beyond 'finding scum'.

This is ignoring everything else. I'm going to make some assumptions with this post. I'm going to assume that most of you think I'm town. I think killing Onset is probably a good indication of that along with not hammering Nep. Accusing Bif of being scum because she won't entertain the thought that I tried to NK her (which again to be clear I did not) is really absurd. I had a night action that can't be verified but that is not taking the totality of the game into account.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

I think Toal is floundering now. I think if Toal is town, that it is honestly more likely that IS/Hum are scum, but right now I'm inclined to believe Toal is scum and maybe Hum is scum.

##vote Toal

Bif could be lying, but would have no incentive to do so.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Shooting Onset is one thing, but not dying n2 or n3 after that is another. If you really are as town as you say you are why wouldn't scum interact with you at all at night? Instead choosing to kill CPig and Bif the second towniest person apparently?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


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Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Toalpaz posted:

One action a night is a pretty big rule and it isn't speculation,

even in role madness?!

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


nice fakeout, that almost got me actually haha

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Excuse me!

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Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


but does that count as faking a day action!

fake edit: guess it doesn't matter

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