|
Okay, one thing that no one has explained whats the significance of the coincidences? something that's dropped seemingly after first act.
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 13:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 15:20 |
|
|
Bad writing
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 13:50
|
|
|
I'm not sure if I think this was better than Get Out, but I firmly believe it's more interesting and reaches for higher heights. I loving love all the small touches. Like, earlier, a new study bible! posted:I just realized that the main family represents.... Or like the VHS tapes by the TV at the very opening - you've got The Man with Two Brains, about someone being mentally locked to another brain, you've got The Goonies, about exploring underground tunnels and horrifying children that just want an adventure, and you've got CHUD, which duh, this movie's got chuds aplenty - but the fourth one was a bootleg copy of The Right Stuff, which is arguably about the hubris of America trying to go too far, too fast. Even just making it a regular VHS of The Right Stuff would have been good, but a bootleg?  Or even the rabbits - one of the arguments alt-right shitlord magas throw around is that whites have 'declining birthrates' and using rabbits as the food source is wonderful, on account of y'know - rabbits breed like rabbits. I don't think he nailed the landing of any one thing in this, but the sheer volume of symbolism Peele attempted is like... gently caress yeah, man, reach. I'd rather a thousand more movies that try this hard against even one more safe bet peer-reviewed analytics-approved simple mark.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 13:54
|
|
|
I think you might be reaching with the bad guys' uniforms. White people wore them too. I thought it was more based on her scary Thriller shirt from the beginning, MJ's red suit and one glove which is also an homage to Freddie Kreuger.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:00
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:I think you might be reaching with the bad guys' uniforms. White people wore them too. I thought it was more based on her scary Thriller shirt from the beginning, MJ's red suit and one glove which is also an homage to Freddie Kreuger. That said, gently caress it man, this movie sets me up to be able to reach with analysis and that's one of the funnest things about movies that really try imo. e: I mean, I'm kinda reaching with the rabbits thing too - it's pretty clearly on a more blunt level, a reference to Alice in Wonderland Wungus fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Mar 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:04
|
|
|
I think that's a huge problem with film, it feels like Peele started with these great images/themes/homages, then cobbled a story around them and said "gently caress it" when things don't make sense or are flat out impossible, instead of having a cohesive story first
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:11
|
|
|
Whalley posted:e: I mean, I'm kinda reaching with the rabbits thing too - it's pretty clearly on a more blunt level, a reference to Alice in Wonderland it's funny in that same bad video i mentioned earlier he said the rabbits were the first clones (they weren't) and that's why they were included. it was pretty obviously what you said and rabbits are often used in experiments, set up in caged walls like in the movie. from the opening scene it put in your head that the copies must be some kind of government experiment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:12
|
|
|
Thundercracker posted:Okay, one thing that no one has explained whats the significance of the coincidences? something that's dropped seemingly after first act. 1) The film plays with the idea of freewill. We are not actually free people, but merely reflections of each other. This is literally true of the tethered, but also true of Gabe and Josh. The coincidences exist to foreshadow this notion that the world is not chaotic, there is this weird plan at play, be it God or some weird government conspiracy. 2) It acts just as a coming storm, hinting that something wrong and unnatural is coming. 3) The coincidences are reflections in of themselves. The spider underneath the spider sculpture and the frisbee falling exactly on the circle patten are I imprecise parallels of one another converging.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:29
|
|
|
The thing that I found interesting about the jumpsuit and the glove is that there's the obvious connection to Michael Jackson, but the first shot of the glove is covered in blood. Aside from MJ, OJ Simpson is also directly mentioned by name. Obviously, OJ has a connection to single, bloody gloves, but it's also interesting that OJ and MJ are both transracial monsters who elevated themselves above any boundaries of demographic trappings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:38
|
|
|
a new study bible! posted:The thing that I found interesting about the jumpsuit and the glove is that there's the obvious connection to Michael Jackson, but the first shot of the glove is covered in blood. Aside from MJ, OJ Simpson is also directly mentioned by name. Obviously, OJ has a connection to single, bloody gloves, but it's also interesting that OJ and MJ are both transracial monsters who elevated themselves above any boundaries of demographic trappings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 14:41
|
|
|
Whalley posted:gently caress this movie just dripped with symbolism/references. I missed that, because I was too caught up in my head thinking about other poo poo. Us ain't a perfect movie but god drat was it intriguing. I would also say that they are both the most iconic American figures of their respective decades, but that's probably a stretch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 15:01
|
|
|
So I’ve been meditating on this film quite a bit, and as I’ve thought more and more about it, my initial qualms with the third act have more or less faded away. A lot of people have been saying that the writing is “bad” or “sloppy.” It’s not. It’s emotional writing, not factual writing. See, I initially had an issue with the mechanics of the Tethered’s origins, and how they came to be. But then I realized that is a stupid thing to get caught up on because it is largely irrelevant. The movie never overexplains itself, and jumps back-and-forth between the Tethered being either something born or science or the paranormal, but never really settles in either camp. Sure, you have the facility, but then you also have the magical realism of the coincidences and a lot of talk of souls. Jordan Peele doesn’t write “hard” sci-fi or horror; like the mechanics of the brain swapping from Get Out, the how doesn’t matter as much as the why. It’s a vector to deliver a bigger story, a tool. It’s not the focus and was never meant to be. Us is about a lot of things, but it’s not about where the Tethered came from. It’s about how their arrival impacts the family at the center of the story, and how their arrival effects the world on a larger scale.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 15:39
|
|
|
Whalley posted:gently caress this movie just dripped with symbolism/references. For me, this was what ruined what could have been a masterpiece. In the process of cramming in all the double meanings and references and commentary on racial stereotypes and politics, the pacing took a huge hit and dragged down the movie. I want a good cinematic experience, not a master class on symbolism. I loved the first two acts, but by the third act, when the clones literally build a wall , I was rolling my eyes so hard they almost fell out of my eye sockets. Did Peele have total creative control or is this another case where the inevitable director's cut will become the definitive version? I feel like a proper edit would do this movie some justice. I can respect any film maker who takes chances, but this one just didn't do it for me. On the bright side, the cinematography was outstanding and the adult cast members did an excellent job.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
Fart City posted:Us is about a lot of things, but it’s not about where the Tethered came from. It’s about how their arrival impacts the family at the center of the story, and how their arrival effects the world on a larger scale. If this is true, why is so much screen time devoted to exposition about where the Tethered came from, and why is the impact that it turns into a fairly standard albeit technically well-made slasher/zombie movie?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
Fart City posted:Us is about a lot of things, but it’s not about where the Tethered came from. It’s about how their arrival impacts the family at the center of the story, and how their arrival effects the world on a larger scale. The problem with this is that the movie slows its climax to a crawl to offer a lengthy explanation of where the Tethered came from. Like, the flaw isn’t a lack of explanation, it’s an explanation that actively hurts the movie. Cut the blackboard monologue and just let the movie follow dream logic, and it’s 100x stronger. Timeless Appeal posted:I think you're not thinking through what the character would go through. It's not spelled out in the movie, but when she wakes up, presumably her tethered parents would find her and then reenact everything going on above ground. So, Adelaide would have people who look identical to her parents but are monsters pushing her around and forcing her to act out weird mimed therapy sessions. I think it's reasonable for a six year old who has no idea what is happening and has no reason to not think these are her parents to just quietly comply. I could buy this in a version where she was, say, knocked over the head from behind and woke up there. But six year olds aren’t dumb, and it’s not a hard leap from “I saw a creepy copy of myself” to “maybe these are copies of my parents”. And again, like.... the exit is *right there*. No one is guarding it. I just cannot buy that a terrified little girl wouldn’t even try.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
Z. Autobahn posted:The problem with this is that the movie slows its climax to a crawl to offer a lengthy explanation of where the Tethered came from. Like, the flaw isn’t a lack of explanation, it’s an explanation that actively hurts the movie. Cut the blackboard monologue and just let the movie follow dream logic, and it’s 100x stronger. Didn't she literally get knocked out dragged underground to be handcuffed to a bed?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:44
|
|
|
Bioshuffle posted:For me, this was what ruined what could have been a masterpiece. In the process of cramming in all the double meanings and references and commentary on racial stereotypes and politics, the pacing took a huge hit and dragged down the movie. I want a good cinematic experience, not a master class on symbolism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
Fart City posted:So I’ve been meditating on this film quite a bit, and as I’ve thought more and more about it, my initial qualms with the third act have more or less faded away. A lot of people have been saying that the writing is “bad” or “sloppy.” It sounds like you really like the film, and that's good! It also sounds like you don't want to like a film that's badly written so you're inventing reasons why it's actually not. Just like the movie in spite of its flaws. I mean "emotional writing" ? What's that? Dream logic? David Lynch? Even Twin Peaks S3 didn't raise any questions like this movie. If everyone wrote "emotionally" with no regards to facts or how something is possible or makes sense, every movie would be The Room. And I can't live in that universe. When people watching your movie are asking "what... how is that possible?" you've made a big mistake
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
Paragon8 posted:Didn't she literally get knocked out dragged underground to be handcuffed to a bed? Yes, by a six year old girl... a long way too... totally possible. Don't think about it!
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:I mean "emotional writing" ? What's that? Dream logic? In any case - the chunks of exposition definitely slowed things down by straddling but not quite fully leaning into either pure emotional dream logic or harder science.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
Paragon8 posted:Didn't she literally get knocked out dragged underground to be handcuffed to a bed? The operative words were ”from behind”, as in, she has no idea doubles exist, she just woke up there.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:53
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:Yes, by a six year old girl... a long way too... totally possible. Don't think about it! you're watching a film about murderous clones and you're confused about how a girl can knock someone out and lock them in an underground lair? like come on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 16:58
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:It sounds like you really like the film, and that's good! It also sounds like you don't want to like a film that's badly written so you're inventing reasons why it's actually not. Just like the movie in spite of its flaws. I’m not inventing poo poo, my dude. Whalley got exactly what I meant (though I agree there is a fair argument if it is pulled off successfully in Us). And it sounds to me like you’re just not onboard with Peele’s writing style, which is fine. But Us operates in the same style of Get Out where a combination of hypnosis and brain swapping science is presented entirely as to be accepted without the need for explanation because the explanation doesn’t matter. Like your read of “cool scenes desperately strung together” makes it sound like Us is some bizarre outlier when we already have a clear example of this being how Peele approaches his storytelling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:02
|
|
|
Well, Get Out made sense. Us doesn't. Was Get Out "emotionally written" or was it character driven and logical? Also hypnosis and organ transplants are things and clones are not
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:08
|
|
|
Fart City posted:I’m not inventing poo poo, my dude. Whalley got exactly what I meant (though I agree there is a fair argument if it is pulled off successfully in Us). And it sounds to me like you’re just not onboard with Peele’s writing style, which is fine. But Us operates in the same style of Get Out where a combination of hypnosis and brain swapping science is presented entirely as to be accepted without the need for explanation because the explanation doesn’t matter. Like your read of “cool scenes desperately strung together” makes it sound like Us is some bizarre outlier when we already have a clear example of this being how Peele approaches his storytelling. They’re not really comparable. Get Out uses a fundamentally sci-fi premise, sure, but once you accept “brain-swapping” as plausible, everything else in the movie is 100% coherent and makes sense. It’s a classic sci-fi structure, there’s no dream logic involved. The problem with Us is that even if you accept the sci-fi premise, significant chunks of the plot and character motivations don’t make sense. Which, again, I’d have no problem with in a more Twin Peaks-y, overtly unexplained movie, but Us *also* goes out of its way to try to explain it. Like... you can have a dream logic inexplicable movie (Twin Peaks, Heriditary) or you can have an explained scifi conceit (Get Out), but you can’t really have it both ways.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:09
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:i just watched a video about this movie with ~400k views (was on t he front page cuz i listened to the remix) and it's hilarious how people can make a career making poo poo up or missing stuff in a movie to make an ENDING EXPLAINED video. one example: the guy thinks that adelaide knows she was switched from the beginning. he also has a theory jason was switched out because he swears and his parents don't know where he picked it up and couldn't remember how to get his spark trick to work and builds a tunnel instead of a sand castle...kids build pits/tunnels all the time at the beach. not sure how he explains away pluto sounding and moving around like an animal. I was in the same situation. Listened to the remix, got suggested the video, watched it. While I agree with you that it is a crock of poo poo, it did make me think about Jason's tuxedo tshirt. I found it interesting that the tuxedo shirt was a white tuxedo. Using an inversion of normal colors is interesting, and could suggest something is up with him, but that's a reach IMO. I think the tux probably relates more to how he has a beast/ape mask that he wears alongside it, suggesting the duality of man and all that jazz. I think there's also something interesting about the toy ambulance. The fact that the ambulance traps both Jason and Pluto in the game closet is interesting. It might be a commentary on how health care relates to the haves and the have-nots. Both are susceptible, to a tricky system, but the haves learn how to navigate it while the have-nots are only trapped by it. Hence the family escaping in the end in an ambulance. Similarly, it's interesting how the tethered are all killed by the things that identify their counterparts: Pluto- Playing with fire Umbra- Hit by a car while running Abraham/Evil Tim- Killed by their boats (consistent need to one up each other) Evil Kitty- Her vanity (this is probably the weakest, but her foray into slicing her face open in a replica facelift does provide the opening for the children to get in and save their mom)
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:16
|
|
|
With regards to the main "plot hole" you guys are so torn up on: if I woke up in an unmarked maze of dimly little hell tunnels that spanned the entire continental U.S. and I had to find my way to a secret escalator that I didn't even know existed because I was unconscious during the journey through those tunnels, I'd probably be in those tunnels for the rest of my life. And I'm 28 years old, not a 6-year old with a possible head injury going through a traumatic experience surrounded by people that look exactly like my family. The other thing I people are fixated on is what effect (if any) the tunnels have on forcing the mimickry of the Tethered to the Above Grounders, and I think there are plenty of reasonable interpretations. My personal interpretation is the link between each person and their double is a very weak two-way signal, but because the tunnels are so (deliberately) unstimulating the Tethered more strongly feel that connection and end up mimicking the Above Grounders. It's like how people hallucinate in sensory deprivation environments; in the absence of any other stimulation your brain amplifies whatever little signal it's getting. It's only once Adelaide starts plotting the revolution that the Tethered can more easily break free because they finally have something to *do*.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:16
|
|
|
Tired Moritz posted:you're watching a film about murderous clones and you're confused about how a girl can knock someone out and lock them in an underground lair? like come on. I think the objection has more to do with the quality of the metaphor itself. If the idea is that the underground lab represents something like the world of the impoverished, oppressed, and disavowed, what does it mean for these little girls to have been “switched at birth?” Part of the metaphor is clearly that there are no guards or direct oppression—so what keeps her there? For the others it seems to be a total inability to conceptialize anything else. And the fact that she can is what leads to the uprising, but why didn’t she just leave seems like a legitimate question
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
So did Adelaide manage to convince all the tethered in the underground to go kill the above world people? That's the unity America needs right now. "We're Americans" - Adelaide 2020
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:Yes, by a six year old girl... a long way too... totally possible. Don't think about it! Wasn't it implied that the clones basically have retard strength ? I thought that was the implication with the girl being able to outrun the real life counter part and the husband clone easily being able to beat up the real one.. Speaking of which, does the husband clone have bad eye sight as well? I was a bit confused by the part with the glasses
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:26
|
|
|
Z. Autobahn posted:The problem with this is that the movie slows its climax to a crawl to offer a lengthy explanation of where the Tethered came from. Like, the flaw isn’t a lack of explanation, it’s an explanation that actively hurts the movie. Cut the blackboard monologue and just let the movie follow dream logic, and it’s 100x stronger. I initially couldn’t square the purpose of the monologue, and I left the theater being kind of frustrated by its inclusion. However, upon thinking on it for a bit, I don’t think it was meant to provide an explanation for the Tethered, so much as it is used to flesh out Red’s motivations and deepen the extent of the connection between her and Adelaide. At no point does Red make an attenpt to say “this is where it all started.” The other Tethered are presented as just always having been in existence to her, with no need to comment. The real revelation of the monologue is Red’s awakening through dance, not the backstory of the doppelgängers. Edit: Red wouldn’t even know what the original were anyway, considering the ending twist Tart Kitty fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:28
|
|
|
mancalamania posted:With regards to the main "plot hole" you guys are so torn up on: if I woke up in an unmarked maze of dimly little hell tunnels that spanned the entire continental U.S. and I had to find my way to a secret escalator that I didn't even know existed because I was unconscious during the journey through those tunnels, I'd probably be in those tunnels for the rest of my life. And I'm 28 years old, not a 6-year old with a possible head injury going through a traumatic experience surrounded by people that look exactly like my family. Except the movie doesn’t present it as a dimly lit maze. It’s shown to be a single long hallway with a bunch of single rooms branching off and an exit escalator at the end. It’s a deliberately simple structure. Fart City posted:I initially couldn’t square the purpose of the monologue, and I left the theater being kind of frustrated by its inclusion. However, upon thinking on it for a bit, I don’t think it was meant to provide an explanation for the Tethered, so much as it is used to flesh out Red’s motivations and deepen the extent of the connection between her and Adelaide. At no point does Red make an attenpt to say “this is where it all started.” The other Tethered are presented as just always having been in existence to her, with no need to comment. The real revelation of the monologue is Red’s awakening through dance, not the backstory of the doppelgängers. She literally says it started with a government experiment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:41
|
|
|
My favorite hidden 11:11 was the Black Flag shirt that the twin was wearing. I bet there are a bunch of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
Z. Autobahn posted:Except the movie doesn’t present it as a dimly lit maze. It’s shown to be a single long hallway with a bunch of single rooms branching off and an exit escalator at the end. It’s a deliberately simple structure. considering it would've had to hold millions of people i'm guessing we only saw a small part of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 17:58
|
|
|
Like... just cut the blackboard monologue, and make it a literal supernatural underworld where our shadow selves reside, and everything works 1000 times better. You even get some neat Persephonr stuff where being down there makes you forget the above-world and vice versa. Everything tracks better if it’s a magic place and not a failed experiment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:00
|
|
|
It's probably also important to keep in mind the text that the movie opens on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:01
|
|
|
a new study bible! posted:My favorite hidden 11:11 was the Black Flag shirt that the twin was wearing. I bet there are a bunch of them. if we talking shirts, the green shirt the daughter is wearing through most/all of the film says "rabbit" on it in Vietnamese (Thỏ). Whether this means anything beyond just being another instance of rabbits in the film or is just a fun easter egg,  .
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:05
|
|
|
a new study bible! posted:My favorite hidden 11:11 was the Black Flag shirt that the twin was wearing. I bet there are a bunch of them. they played rachel's daughter on friends.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:07
|
|
|
To the people trying to nitpick the logic of the clone sewers you really can't, it doesn't fully work as a purely 'government did a sci-fi' because of all the magical elements to the plot. I kinda like the messiness of that, though.Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:My favorite moment of the whole movie was when Kitty, near death, is crawling across the floor and reaches up toward Mirror Josh, who extends his hand and then does the fake handshake move super slowly Hell, same
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 15:20 |
|
|
I don't know if any of the POVs in this film are reliable. Nothing that Red says seems particularly concrete. I don't know that there's a solid reason to believe that the facility is a secret government thing. The facility could literally be hell for all we know, and Red just interprets it as a government thing because that's an easier explanation than a literal underworld. IDK why anything that she does in the film would lead us to trust her authority in an exposition dump. Bold Robot posted:if we talking shirts, the green shirt the daughter is wearing through most/all of the film says "rabbit" on it in Vietnamese (Thỏ). Whether this means anything or is just a fun easter egg, This is super interesting. I was specifically wondering about her shirt. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 18:13
|
|