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TheHoosier
Dec 30, 2004

The fuck, Graham?!



Elephant Ambush posted:

I love that he's not some super magical demon villain or warlord. Just a normal dude but BOY IS HE A DICKHOLE.

In a weird roundabout way he is the reason any of that poo poo happens. YOU DIDNT HAVE TO DO THAT, YOU stinkyhole

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Saint Freak
Apr 15, 2007



I died on fleek, and so am cursed to roam the Earth forever, eternally on fleek...



Buglord

S: Lightning in Lightning Returns
A: Lightning in XIII-2
B: Lightning in XIII
C: Lightning in Dissidia
D: Lightning in XIV
F: Lightning in World of Final Fantasy

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?



Nap Ghost

TheHoosier posted:

In a weird roundabout way he is the reason any of that poo poo happens. YOU DIDNT HAVE TO DO THAT, YOU stinkyhole

The worst part of him is that he's a genuine True Believer. He honestly believes that the gods chose him to be better than everyone else and he wishes he were in an even higher station because it would mean higher divine favor and more people to look down on. If he were in House Beoulve he would be exactly like Ramza's brothers if not somehow worse.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.




Finished up my replay of the PSP FF2.

In short, I'm still kinda mad at Squares laziness with its remakes/ports. Look if you're going to reconstruct all the assets from scratch there isn't any reason you should be sticking with the weird script you have where half the time the protagonists are silent and the other half of the time they talk. Levelling is still horribly paced, and every party member who joins past Minwu is awful, Leon is the worst of it, a scattershot of weapon levels and stats, with only 1k HP and 5 MP. gently caress even the game itself acknowledges he shouldn't be this weak in SOC where they loving show him with 3k HP and CURE loving 16.

So Grinding should be fine, but even that's whack. You can't level a spell more than 1 level at a time. And the progression for spells is stupid. This game should not have been left the way it was. There is no reason, the spirit of the game should not be misery.

But gently caress you game



Doing the Arcane Labyrinth kicked Leon to max HP anyway. Speaking of... it's okay as a concept, I like a lot of the floors, I actually dig a system of "input keyword to get Dungeon floor." But some of these floors are just the worst and they don't have the excuse of "We made this on the NES"

I dunno, I feel square doesn't do enough for its remakes. Hilariously as much as everyone's like "FF7RE should just be HD FF7" I disagree, having seen a lot of Square Remakes, and taking note of RE2:RE that just released, a game keeping the spirit of the original is better than "Just the original but prettier."

But like Mega says the story is so bonkers! I love it! I just wish there was more to it, I wish that they gave half a toss with all these remakes.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


Onmi posted:

I dunno, I feel square doesn't do enough for its remakes. Hilariously as much as everyone's like "FF7RE should just be HD FF7" I disagree, having seen a lot of Square Remakes, and taking note of RE2:RE that just released, a game keeping the spirit of the original is better than "Just the original but prettier."

I disagree on this one, in large part for reasons of game preservation, but also because of personal preference.

Either way, the problem with this approach in gaming is that a lot of the time, the 'big, fancy reimagining with the spirit of the original' supercedes the original or more faithful remasters further down the line. You see some shifting around on that depending on the company (Nintendo seems to prioritize the originals over the few remakes they've actually done when re-releasing), but that's absolutely true with S-E with the exception of external deals like the NES Classic. FFIV's a really good example of that; there was a really pretty and entirely faithful pixel art version of it released on the PSP, but that's not the version that gets re-released for new platforms, you only get the 3DS remake.

When the FFVII remake comes out sometime in the 22nd century, all history of S-E releases says that it becomes the only FFVII version released from then on. You'd better like all of its changes, because going forward, they're what gets released. And if that's the approach of a company, I really want them to stick to faithful and restrained remasters, because otherwise we start to lose the original.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Mar 22, 2019

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Elephant Ambush posted:

The worst part of him is that he's a genuine True Believer. He honestly believes that the gods chose him to be better than everyone else and he wishes he were in an even higher station because it would mean higher divine favor and more people to look down on. If he were in House Beoulve he would be exactly like Ramza's brothers if not somehow worse.
More like he is over-compensating because he was nobility and is trying to reclaim his family honor, by any means necessary.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Cleretic posted:

I disagree on this one, in large part for reasons of game preservation, but also because of personal preference.

Either way, the problem with this approach in gaming is that a lot of the time, the 'big, fancy reimagining with the spirit of the original' supercedes the original or more faithful remasters further down the line. You see some shifting around on that depending on the company (Nintendo seems to prioritize the originals over the few remakes they've actually done when re-releasing), but that's absolutely true with S-E with the exception of external deals like the NES Classic. FFIV's a really good example of that; there was a really pretty and entirely faithful pixel art version of it released on the PSP, but that's not the version that gets re-released for new platforms, you only get the 3DS remake.

When the FFVII remake comes out sometime in the 22nd century, all history of S-E releases says that it becomes the only FFVII version released from then on. You'd better like all of its changes, because going forward, they're what gets released. And if that's the approach of a company, I really want them to stick to faithful and restrained remasters, because otherwise we start to lose the original.

Okay, I agree with game preservation and the originals being preserved, like... there should be a version of FF7 that is "This is the game" and the fact that we are so callous with our history is really weird. But I also think that there's a middle ground.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3


Algus is a good villain because his type actually exists in the real world, you know that there are Algus' out there right now.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



a ffvii remake has nothing to do with game preservation what the heck?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


It sounds more like Final Fantasy corporate revisionism they are worried about. The collectors will always have the original, it's not them to worry about. It's the consumer who can only buy what's compatible with their latest and greatest platform.

FF7 port is coming to toasters so I'm not very worried about access to the original even though they already broken it by fixing this guy are sick.

Veib
Dec 10, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Yeah game preservation or lack thereof is an important thing to discuss and companies should definitely pay more attention to it, but Final Fantasy VII, a game they're rereleasing on current consoles literally next week, is maybe not the best example to use.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010


They'll never see it coming...


Have any of the remakes of FF 2 ever bothered to fix the bugged Ultima spell?

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?



Nap Ghost

Scalding Coffee posted:

More like he is over-compensating because he was nobility and is trying to reclaim his family honor, by any means necessary.

He's also doing that. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

His worst fear is that Mileuda was right (she is) but being raised by nobility brainwashed him so hard he'll never accept it because nobles are scum with the most fragile egos imaginable.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


W.T. Fits posted:

Have any of the remakes of FF 2 ever bothered to fix the bugged Ultima spell?

all of them, it doesn't make Ultima good.

Like... Ultima can do loving tonnes of damage, in my latest playthrough I grinded a near full level 16 Spell list for Firion and gave him Ultima, and at level 16 it was doing 6k damage.

At level 1 it was doing around 400.

Sure, it does a tonne of damage if you grind for it, but this isn't a game that needs grinding.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Saint Freak posted:

S: Lightning in Lightning Returns
A: Lightning in XIII-2
B: Lightning in XIII
C: Lightning in Dissidia
D: Lightning in XIV
F: Lightning in World of Final Fantasy

Lightning punching snow only happens in one and three as far as i know so they are both s tier imo

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


W.T. Fits posted:

Have any of the remakes of FF 2 ever bothered to fix the bugged Ultima spell?

I think it's not bugged, I distinctly remember some dev saying they wanted Ultima to be real weak since it was an old magic spell and magic had advanced since then

It fits with the theme of ff2 being that everything is miserable and everyone dies for nothing

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


Isn't Ultima from FF2 where they noticed it was bugged but then the director was like "no actually that's perfect."

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


mandatory lesbian posted:

I think it's not bugged, I distinctly remember some dev saying they wanted Ultima to be real weak since it was an old magic spell and magic had advanced since then

It fits with the theme of ff2 being that everything is miserable and everyone dies for nothing


zedprime posted:

Isn't Ultima from FF2 where they noticed it was bugged but then the director was like "no actually that's perfect."

No, so the spell was bugged, but the dude who programmed it, basically tried to pass off his gently caress up with "Well... old stuff isn't better than modern stuff, so it works." And Sakaguchi looks at him and goes "You're fired, I'm gonna go fix it."

But the dude ciphered his code, so Sakaguchi was like "gently caress it, whatever."

It works exactly how it's supposed to work in all later releases, it's just that "How it's supposed to work" is still poo poo.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012




i like the idea that it was a deliberate design decision way better

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Looper posted:

i like the idea that it was a deliberate design decision way better

I dunno, I like it being way more genuine that someone hosed up and he was like... desperate to not get fired for loving up, and he liked his gently caress up, because again, he ciphered his code so it couldn't be fixed. So instead of just going "Sorry, I'll fix it." He went "This is deliberate because it makes sense."

I applaud the man with the balls to basically try to defend his bug.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3


I hope Looper is never in charge of a video game that I might play.

rujasu
Dec 18, 2013



Saint Freak posted:

S: Lightning in Lightning Returns
A: Lightning in XIII-2
B: Lightning in XIII
C: Lightning in Dissidia
D: Lightning in XIV
F: Lightning in World of Final Fantasy

No, F is Dodging Lightning in FFX

Saint Freak
Apr 15, 2007



I died on fleek, and so am cursed to roam the Earth forever, eternally on fleek...



Buglord

rujasu posted:

No, F is Dodging Lightning in FFX

drat I've been undone.

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


One of the reason I restarted the thread is because I been in a huge Final Fantasy kick lately since replaying FF9 on the Switch. After having beat V and VI last year as part of the Fiesta and nearly finishing XIII at the time, I wanted to play some more. I ended up beating finally after abanadoning Final Fantasy XIII, III (J), and VIII.

I have come to appreciate them, through III is very flaw even with the remake, and it took a dash of cheat engine and the menu mod with a optional half required XP for leveling to make it feel actually passable. Shame, the remake has some good ideas and I did like the redesigns on the four generic onion knights, but why was it a good idea just randomly go "well we can't have eight enemies on screen like the original...let just triple the stats of all enemies, even if you only fight only a single one in the original".

Looper
Mar 1, 2012




Gologle posted:

I hope Looper is never in charge of a video game that I might play.

hey you're the one playing ff2

No. 1 Apartheid Fan
Aug 20, 2005



The 3 remake is weird because I "get" why they did most of what they did, and they're similar to what I would've done if I were remaking 3: rebalance the jobs, make the boss fights tougher/more complex/more interesting.

They just did all of it badly.

Rich Uncle Chet
Jan 20, 2005

The Law? Law is a Human Institution.

Steiner and Vivi are the broest of bros and the best thing about any FF ever.

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:

The 3 remake is weird because I "get" why they did most of what they did, and they're similar to what I would've done if I were remaking 3: rebalance the jobs, make the boss fights tougher/more complex/more interesting.

They just did all of it badly.

Yeah. One of the things I did to make the jobs more bearable with the option in cheat engine to raise the job level up, so whenever I switch jobs I made the job level be very close to what I had previously. I actually kept Knight around at the end of the game because they were actually getting pretty good at that point, just being a tank who also has a nice selection of late game weapons.

I did cheat twice and use the infinite HP prompt on both the many head dog lady you fight for I think Raganaok, as she just really cheap high level multi hit spells that nearly wipe your character even when your easily on stat level with the enemies and other bosses in the area. And on the final boss because some reason the great idea to make Dark Cloud more interesting is give her four attacks per turn, with two of them be multi-hit spells when your party speed is random and might heal everyone at the start of the turn when your still full HP and not after Dark Cloud acts and leaves everyone near death, and next turn acts after Dark Cloud.

Rirse fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Mar 22, 2019

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



The Thief is so awful in 1 but I donít want to restart

No. 1 Apartheid Fan
Aug 20, 2005



sponges posted:

The Thief is so awful in 1 but I donít want to restart

He'll be a Ninja one day, please have faith in him

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?



Nap Ghost

sponges posted:

The Thief is so awful in 1 but I don’t want to restart

He makes up for it with the rad ninja sprite.

ExcessBLarg!
Aug 31, 2001


I haven't played a "modern" mainline FF, by which I mean anything past FFVI in part due to only owning Nintendo consoles. With VI, IX, X, X-2, and XII coming (or already) out for the Switch I'm trying to get caught up.

So, here's an odd question: Does English vs. Japanese voice acting for X/X-2 matter much, given English subtitles? Like, is either of the VAs generally preferred? I don't speak Japanese, but I'm fine reading text assuming the subs are complete.
Honestly, I'm not really used to talkie RPGs in the first place.

Reason for this is that I preordered the X/X-2 Remaster from Amazon Japan as it has better box art and both games come on cartridge, while the NA version requires a hefty download. The Japanese version is confirmed to support English text, but it's also known that they are distinct releases (a bunch of Square Enix Switch games are world-wide releases so they're completely identical across regions) and it's not clear what the actual differences are yet. The current rumor is that the Japanese version has Japanese VA only and the other releases have English, although the eShop file sizes are the same?

Anyways, I could cancel the preorder and get the "Asian-English" version from Play Asia, but I much prefer ordering from Amazon Japan.

YoshiOfYellow
Aug 21, 2015

Voted #1 Babysitter in Mushroom Kingdom


The English dub of X-2 is pretty great but I've never been one to prefer anything over English when it's available.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010


They'll never see it coming...


rujasu posted:

No, F is Dodging Lightning in FFX

Why did you have to remind me that was a thing.

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



Iím finding one really grindy. Iím in the elf village and everything costs a kings ransom and every drat enemy is poisoning me which of course persists outside of battle

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


Along with FFXV, I been replaying the original Final Fantasy on the Vita with the Origins version, usually during slow shifts at work. I picked Thief like everyone, and yeah he sucked for a good while until I started picking up the specificity weapons that him and fighter can use, and then he actually starts able to hurt things regularly. Also do find it hilarious in Origins they didn't fix the spot in the map with the high level monsters.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?



Nap Ghost

sponges posted:

I’m finding one really grindy. I’m in the elf village and everything costs a kings ransom and every drat enemy is poisoning me which of course persists outside of battle

Which version are you playing? The original NES version is grindy as heck in terms of money but the PSP remake is way more generous.

sponges
Sep 14, 2011



Elephant Ambush posted:

Which version are you playing? The original NES version is grindy as heck in terms of money but the PSP remake is way more generous.

PS1

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We shoulde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?



Nap Ghost


If that's too grindy for you then don't ever go back to the NES version.

You also don't need everything in the elf village.

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Mega64
May 23, 2008

~ it's our ~

~ final fantasy ~


(just don't ask them about "the after years")



Grimey Drawer

Donít grind for cash, grab what you can afford and attempt the Marsh Cave. If itís too much, leave and restock, and try again. FF1 plays different from the rest of the series, at least early on dungeons may require a couple attempts and the focus is less on fighting bosses and more actually surviving the dungeon, at least until you get to Lich.

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