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Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Why are people calling a bunch of Japanese characters "white dudes"

listen if we're going to code these characters as Asian because they were made by Asian developers then we cannot also in the same breath deride them for "not having people of colour"

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Mywhatacleanturtle
Jul 23, 2006



CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Would have been infinitely more interested in an Aranea-centered FF15

Aranea was literally the only ffxv character I liked. I guess I kinda liked Ardyn too.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Hmm!

Weird flex but okay.

The seeming lack of any kind of party system is unfortunately really glaring and will probably end up determining whether I get this or not.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013


BrianWilly posted:

The seeming lack of any kind of party system is unfortunately really glaring and will probably end up determining whether I get this or not.

there is some kind of extremely basic human character AI happening in this gif and he doesn't look like he's positioned as an enemy would be so there are at the very least NPC combatants

https://twitter.com/Dreamboum/statu...340211962544128

but given no release date i wouldn't be shocked if partner AI is just not a thing yet and so not included

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




someone said bring back the Gambit system and I just want to the gently caress out of that

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Should've just plopped in Donald as a placeholder.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


Bleck posted:

listen if we're going to code these characters as Asian because they were made by Asian developers then we cannot also in the same breath deride them for "not having people of colour"

I think it's totally fair to critique representations of, say, indigenous peoples and black people in FF games. But while FFXV is relying on dominant racial identities for its cast, they aren't "white"

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

someone said bring back the Gambit system and I just want to the gently caress out of that

Hell yeah

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I think it's totally fair to critique representations of, say, indigenous peoples and black people in FF games.

agree

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

But while FFXV is relying on dominant racial identities for its cast, they aren't "white"

there is uncomfortable conversation to be had about the perception of whiteness and asianness among fantasy video game characters and this is perhaps not the time or the place

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


SyntheticPolygon posted:

XVI looks to be chasing an aesthetic i'm a bit bored of at this point, but I like XIV and it occasionally goes after similar vibes so perhaps it will surprise me.

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




Tae posted:

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

Yeah it was p great.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

Old school? New school?
Shit, I didn't go to school



going back to it and literally putting my flag down that you Junction eidolons or eikons or whatever they want to call them this go around and it affects your moveset or what abilities you have

they revisited FF7, maybe they were thinking about what they'd do for FF8 and decided to use elements of that for FF16

Sinten
Apr 12, 2008


Tae posted:

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

Can't wait for this

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013



Tae posted:

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

Yeah and I think it's a boring aesthetic?

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

At this point the aesthetic could be interchangable stick figures and I'd still be excited for the game because Ryota Suzuki is a combat design wizard

Mega64
May 23, 2008

~ it's our ~

~ final fantasy ~


(just don't ask them about "the after years")



Grimey Drawer

I hope you can stab people on Chocobos like in that one cutscene.

This game already seems more violent than the other games, which usually are able to keep violent actions absract enough. Our first look of the game and a guy bites it so hard a nearby kid gets coated in blood.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Tae posted:

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

FF has literally never had that aesthetic.

It's not even the same aesthetic as the old-school medieval fantasy ones.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


if they must make a final fantasy that isn't 7r-2 it should have a job system

Bleck
Jan 7, 2014




Clarste posted:

FF has literally never had that aesthetic.

It's not even the same aesthetic as the old-school medieval fantasy ones.

ohhhhh my goddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I mean you can disagree over whether that's a good or bad thing, but Final Fantasy has literally never gone for the grimy and bloody aesthetic. Even FFT, which is probably the closest, still had knights with brightly colored capes showing their allegiances, etc. Just in terms of costume design and whatnot this one is clearly going for subdued.

Like I cannot understand people who look at this trailer and think we're getting another FF4 or FF9 or whatever. Seems to me like it's doing its own new thing.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

This conversation reminded me of something I thought of a while back.



technically not true for another 10 months

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012




Fister Roboto posted:

This conversation reminded me of something I thought of a while back.



technically not true for another 10 months

oh

oh my god

gently caress

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

The one thing I don't get is people calling the faces photorealistic

They're about as realistic as XV and 7-R which is to say not very.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007




I think the 7r faces are astonishing

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012




Blockhouse posted:

The one thing I don't get is people calling the faces photorealistic

They're about as realistic as XV and 7-R which is to say not very.

I could tell it was a Final Fantasy game as soon as they showed the protagonist's face at the start of the trailer. The faces just have that Final Fantasy look.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


Fister Roboto posted:

This conversation reminded me of something I thought of a while back.



technically not true for another 10 months

climbing into a coffin r/n

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

victrix posted:

I think the 7r faces are astonishing

They're really good yeah but they also don't look like real people. They look like Final Fantasy people.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Blockhouse posted:

They're really good yeah but they also don't look like real people. They look like Final Fantasy people.

In a final fantasy?! Guards, seize them!

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Clarste posted:

Final Fantasy has literally never gone for the grimy and bloody aesthetic. Even FFT, which is probably the closest, still had knights with brightly colored capes showing their allegiances, etc.

The overarching plot of Tactics is "demons manipulating 2 countries into savage bloodshed in a literal More Blood For The Blood God scenario, to ressurect their false god; also the demons run the church and the false god is their Jesus"

One of Ramza's brothers is corrupted by a demon, and turns his other brother into a zombie, then makes Ramza fight the zombie brother, who spends the entire fight begging for death

The game literally ends with 2 main characters riding off into exile, and the other 2 main characters stabbing each other in the gut and dying

It is an incredibly grimy and bloody game. The second fight in the game has you brawling to the death with a bunch of thieves in back alleyways of a slum in the pouring rain.

e: not to mention the whole framing device of the game is "everyone who knew the truth was burned at the stake by the church, we have uncovered suppressed documents telling the true story"

Clarste posted:

Like I cannot understand people who look at this trailer and think we're getting another FF4 or FF9 or whatever. Seems to me like it's doing its own new thing.

Has anybody ITT compared this to either of those?

Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 17, 2020

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

jokes posted:

In a final fantasy?! Guards, seize them!

This is not a complaint just an observation noooo not the dungeon

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Many Final Fantasys include rooms with smears of blood and corpses everywhere, and a large snake animal impaled on a tree presumably to intimidate Cloud, et al. They've had a lot of grime and blood over the years.

As far as brutality goes, in FF4 you burn down a village and massacre civilians in the first 10 minutes.

The White Dragon
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!


Harrow posted:

I could tell it was a Final Fantasy game as soon as they showed the protagonist's face at the start of the trailer. The faces just have that Final Fantasy look.

they look like they're made of porcelain. final fantasy characters are the dollfies of pc video game characters

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Snow Cone Capone posted:

The overarching plot of Tactics is "demons manipulating 2 countries into savage bloodshed in a literal More Blood For The Blood God scenario, to ressurect their false god; also the demons run the church and the false god is their Jesus"

One of Ramza's brothers is corrupted by a demon, and turns his other brother into a zombie, then makes Ramza fight the zombie brother, who spends the entire fight begging for death

The game literally ends with 2 main characters riding off into exile, and the other 2 main characters stabbing each other in the gut and dying

It is an incredibly grimy and bloody game. The second fight in the game has you brawling to the death with a bunch of thieves in back alleyways of a slum in the pouring rain.


Has anybody ITT compared this to either of those?

I'm not sure you understand what the word "aesthetic" means.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Please enlighten me then.

e: please also elaborate on where you got that people are expecting another FF4/9.

AlphaKeny1
Feb 17, 2006



Fister Roboto posted:

This conversation reminded me of something I thought of a while back.



technically not true for another 10 months

gently caress im SO OLD

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Snow Cone Capone posted:

Please enlighten me then.

It's what things look like visually, not what happens in the plot. Describing plot events makes it sound like you don't know what it means.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

e: please also elaborate on where you got that people are expecting another FF4/9.

Tae posted:

It's chasing an aesthetic that mainline FF non-mmo games haven't had in like nearly 20 years

Maybe 4 or 9 specifically was just an assumption, but people are acting like we're aesthetically returning to the old days when I don't see it that way at all.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Sep 17, 2020

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Clarste posted:

It's what things look like visually, not what happens in the plot. Describing plot events makes it sound like you don't know what it means.









This is, in my opinion, a grimy, bloody aesthetic. Just because the mages are bright colors and the countries have their respective colors/crest doesn't mean the whole game doesn't have a visual tone that trends toward darker colors, browns and beiges, because the aesthetic is reflecting literally every other aspect of the game, which is grimy and bloody.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Snow Cone Capone posted:









This is, in my opinion, a grimy, bloody aesthetic. Just because the mages are bright colors and the countries have their respective colors/crest doesn't mean the whole game doesn't have a visual tone that trends toward darker colors, browns and beiges, because the aesthetic is reflecting literally every other aspect of the game, which is grimy and bloody.

A) There are way bloodier scenes in FFT. Like, there's a part where a demon sticks his hand through the chest of a dude, and there's a big hole in his chest with blood and stuff.

B) Just because you don't think the brightly colored clothes and scenery don't matter doesn't mean I agree. Like, I would actually say that the brightly colored "pure white" knights marching into the grimy slums to slaughter the underclass is kind of the thematic point of the game? Whereas nothing in the FFXVI trailer approaches that level of colorfulness.

C) I did say FFT was the closest though, didn't I?

Clarste fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 17, 2020

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Clarste posted:

A) There are way bloodier scenes in FFT. Like, there's a part where a demon sticks his hand through the chest of a dude, and there's a big hole in his chest with blood and stuff.

B) Just because you don't think the brightly colored clothes and scenery don't matter doesn't mean I agree. Like, I would actually say that the brightly colored "pure white" knights marching into the grimy slums to slaughter the underclass is kind of the thematic point of the game?

Yeah, I posted the specific scenes I mentioned earlier, for emphasis.

And yeah, the rich loving over the poor is one of the many overarching themes. But I didn't say brightly colored clothes and scenery don't matter - I said they don't change the fact that, IMO, the aesthetic of FFT is pretty drat dark. It's hard to tell a story with a half-dozen themes, all of which involve some form of "life just really sucks for everyone," without having the overall design reflect that.

e: anyway this is turning into a real dumb slapfight so I'm bowing out with my opinion of "Final Fantasy games have absolutely done dark and brutal visuals before" unchanged, I just really don't feel like arguing with you about what constitutes "a dark and grimy aesthetic" anymore

Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Sep 17, 2020

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


victrix posted:

Gonna post again just to emphasize how incredibly loving good Heavensward and Shadowbringers are, god drat

So good

And half of Stormblood, though people are split on which half.

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