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Disappointing Pie
Feb 7, 2006
Words cannot describe what a disaster the pie was.

They just need to give VI the IV Complete Collection treatment. For VI being literally one of the most acclaimed games they have ever made I can't believe they've almost completely ignored it.

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Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

IXR would also be kind of awesome.

WarpDogs
Apr 30, 2009

That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about stars to dispute it.


College Slice

JagerNinja posted:

Something I never put together before: Noctis leaves Insomnia to go to Altissia to meet with Lunafreya. Ok, that makes sense. But after the attack on Insomnia, you see that Lunafreya was actually in Insomnia all along? That does track, she arrived with the Imperials for the treaty signing (I think?) but it just seems kind of silly that they missed each other by minutes.

This type of problem is by far my biggest complaint with FFXV's storytelling. It's like the game is constantly losing track of its own characters, and that's a really big problem when like half the story beats are centered around a character being in a certain place

The worst one for me was (light-ish spoilers, around chapter 7) is when the empire "finds you" and it's treated as this major thing. I mean... were we really trying to hide? We're in crownsguard uniforms driving around in the king's car and making no effort to conceal our identity. We've interacted with the empire multiple times. Why does it suddenly matter?

So you spend an entire chapter escorting a character from Point A to Point B because Point A is no longer safe. Then just 2 chapters later you have to go back to Point A and she shows up!! She says a few lines and then ends with "ok, well, see you back at Point B!!" argh

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Bregor posted:

There's a while where the Lion War / political intrigue is still intertwined with the Zodiac Stones. But by late game that's all background noise to Lucavi Ghostbusters. Delita's story is much more interesting and I wish we got a branching gameplay option to see that half of the plot.

It'd just be a bunch of scenes of arrogant nobles thinking that the commoner they've rapidly raised through the ranks is a faithful puppet because the church's watchdog assigned to him hasn't said otherwise. Well, more than we already got to see from the game.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Rand Brittain posted:

IXR would also be kind of awesome.

I feel like IX is pretty much the game its creators wanted it to be and made it to be. It doesn't feel incomplete or compromised by the limitations of budget and technology - the simple, cartoony art-style, for instance, works very well with the level of graphical fidelity it was made for. There are other Final Fantasies that could gain far more from a remake, I think.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

Wanna punch an evil tree wizard in 4k

Veib
Dec 10, 2007




Grimey Drawer

Reremake III and make it good this time

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




HD DAD posted:

Wanna punch an evil tree wizard in 4k

Play the Omega raids in FFXIV as a monk, then. Exdeath Savage is super cool, with a killer transition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqldJkGuuIY

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Ziggy Hero!
Ziggy! Save! Everyone!



Veib posted:

Reremake III and make it good this time

So just port ff5s gba remake then?

Violet_Sky
Dec 5, 2011



Fun Shoe

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

So just port ff5s gba remake then?

Better than the mobile ports.

JagerNinja
Sep 13, 2011

Late for my I-llama-nati meeting.


WarpDogs posted:

This type of problem is by far my biggest complaint with FFXV's storytelling. It's like the game is constantly losing track of its own characters, and that's a really big problem when like half the story beats are centered around a character being in a certain place

The worst one for me was (light-ish spoilers, around chapter 7) is when the empire "finds you" and it's treated as this major thing. I mean... were we really trying to hide? We're in crownsguard uniforms driving around in the king's car and making no effort to conceal our identity. We've interacted with the empire multiple times. Why does it suddenly matter?

So you spend an entire chapter escorting a character from Point A to Point B because Point A is no longer safe. Then just 2 chapters later you have to go back to Point A and she shows up!! She says a few lines and then ends with "ok, well, see you back at Point B!!" argh


My biggest complaint is that basically nothing set up in the first 3/4 of the game resolves in a satisfying way during the last 1/4. I had always held that the early game is mostly coherent, but I'm prepared to have that opinion shaken on a second playthrough.

As for the spoilered section... Idk man, my Noctis runs around in jeans and a t-shirt, so we're going incognito.

Veib posted:

Reremake III and make it good this time

Bravely Default?

Mysticblade
Oct 22, 2012



Rather than another FF3 remake, just give us a FF3 prequel covering the Warriors of Darkness. That part always sounded way cooler than the rest of FF3.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Give me Final Fantasy Dimensions 2 but not the one we got, an actual sequel to FF Dimensions 1

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


Disappointing Pie posted:

They just need to give VI the IV Complete Collection treatment. For VI being literally one of the most acclaimed games they have ever made I can't believe they've almost completely ignored it.

From what I recall VI is actually not one of their big ones in Japan; I've always heard that you can switch V and VI's positions in popular consciousness between America and Japan and get most of the way there, VI is more in 'cult hit' territory. It's why the image from that they seem most willing to call back to is the most superficial one, of Terra in the mech. So VI sorta fell though the remake gaps because of it, it just isn't a high priority there, and its hope for a IIIDS/IVDS style remake were dashed when the V remake mutated into Four Warriors of Light/Bravely Default.

Honestly, I'd also say that VI, like IX, doesn't actually need a Big Deal Remake; there's nothing wrong with its current presentation (putting aside the Smartphone Graphics of the current port), it tells exactly the story it wants and needs to. All you'd get from a VI remake is a bigger VI, and I don't think that's needed when Remake Juice could instead go to a game that could actually use it--like, say, giving VIII a chance to fix its weird-rear end storytelling.

Cleretic fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Oct 17, 2020

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.


Evil Fluffy posted:

It'd just be a bunch of scenes of arrogant nobles thinking that the commoner they've rapidly raised through the ranks is a faithful puppet because the church's watchdog assigned to him hasn't said otherwise. Well, more than we already got to see from the game.

Would be a nice change of pace. Like a Mafia minigame in the middle of an SRPG. If ActRaiser can combine a platformer with city building...

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread but to remake VI for modern sensibilities would require more than gameplay and graphics but a significant rewrite of the story, like 7R made significant additions and nuances but even then the majority of the basis for that was in the original.

Looking at 6 again in 2020, its huge ensemble cast is barely sketched out with like one stereotypical character trait each save for like the core 4 or 5, the story is pushed forward with the flimsiest of justifications, the world is barely developed and makes less sense than 7, etc

Like I still have huge nostalgia for it but it's definitely caught in between the older games that are all premise/tropes and the later ones where they worked to build a cohesive story

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread but to remake VI for modern sensibilities would require more than gameplay and graphics but a significant rewrite of the story, like 7R made significant additions and nuances but even then the majority of the basis for that was in the original.

Looking at 6 again in 2020, its huge ensemble cast is barely sketched out with like one stereotypical character trait each save for like the core 4 or 5, the story is pushed forward with the flimsiest of justifications, the world is barely developed and makes less sense than 7, etc

Like I still have huge nostalgia for it but it's definitely caught in between the older games that are all premise/tropes and the later ones where they worked to build a cohesive story

And honestly, given how much I hate the actual story changes in VII (not just fleshing-outs, I mean the actual changes), I think I actively don't want them to do a VI remake on that level. I'm actually genuinely upset that they lessened the severity of Avalanche's crimes in the VII remake to such a degree that they basically don't commit any, I don't want to see how hard they'd soften VI in the same way.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Cleretic posted:

And honestly, given how much I hate the actual story changes in VII (not just fleshing-outs, I mean the actual changes), I think I actively don't want them to do a VI remake on that level. I'm actually genuinely upset that they lessened the severity of Avalanche's crimes in the VII remake to such a degree that they basically don't commit any, I don't want to see how hard they'd soften VI in the same way.

I mean, the Returners didn't really do anything bad that I can recall. AVALANCHE were terrorists, even if they were terrorists with a pretty objectively right cause. Maybe this goes back to the topic from a page or so ago, ambition and daring has been lost in a lot of video games in the contemporary age. Heroes who blow up innocent people just can't be done anymore. Maybe?

But my point is, FFVI is a pretty black-and-white conflict. No greys at all. They can keep Gestahl being a shithead or Kefka ending the world, shouldn't be anything wrong about that. And the misfits determined to bring justice and peace back to the land can be exactly that all over again.

There was more moral ambiguity in FFIV of all games now I think on it. Cecil did some awful poo poo for the Baron Empire, to say nothing of Kain, while the only traitor in VI was Celes and I don't think she is said to have done anything bad in her stint as general.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Oct 17, 2020

Mustached Demon
Nov 12, 2016



Grimey Drawer

Finished up FFXII after waltzing up to ultima and rolled over it. The ending was quite satisfying really. Wrapped up everything nicely and had a neat boss sequence at the end. I was incredibly overpowered for it but I knew that was coming after getting all the espers. Knight with excalibur and white robe is a mean, mean knight (except vs holy immune). Really happy we didn't have to beat up the floating coffin guy. He was there and turned Vayne into steampunk bahamut but whatever it was still Vayne the whole time. Coffin guy was just... there.

XIIs theme felt pretty different from other FFs. Like the cast didn't stumble upon some great evil rising or set out as heroes. There wasn't a really a grand reveal like I expected. The casts motivations stayed basically the same the whole time. Their growth was dealing with seeking justice vs vengeance. I think the scale of the world overtook the story a lot. Too much to build upon so areas often felt plot deprived. Then at certain points you get a plot dump and a whole crap load happens. Was tough to follow at times and really the whole story didn't make sense until the last dungeon. Maybe that was the grand reveal I don't know.

Combat was really fun though. I liked switching up gambits in the moment and learning some of the more difficult fights. Except darkja that was dumb. I still have some hunts, hell wyrm, trial mode, and omega left. Maybe I'll do it maybe I'll move on. Not sure which I should do next: finish IV steam version (done original) or do a 1-3. 7R is up once it's on pc. Might get a new pc too.

JagerNinja
Sep 13, 2011

Late for my I-llama-nati meeting.


Mustached Demon posted:

Finished up FFXII after waltzing up to ultima and rolled over it. The ending was quite satisfying really. Wrapped up everything nicely and had a neat boss sequence at the end. I was incredibly overpowered for it but I knew that was coming after getting all the espers. Knight with excalibur and white robe is a mean, mean knight (except vs holy immune). Really happy we didn't have to beat up the floating coffin guy. He was there and turned Vayne into steampunk bahamut but whatever it was still Vayne the whole time. Coffin guy was just... there.

XIIs theme felt pretty different from other FFs. Like the cast didn't stumble upon some great evil rising or set out as heroes. There wasn't a really a grand reveal like I expected. The casts motivations stayed basically the same the whole time. Their growth was dealing with seeking justice vs vengeance. I think the scale of the world overtook the story a lot. Too much to build upon so areas often felt plot deprived. Then at certain points you get a plot dump and a whole crap load happens. Was tough to follow at times and really the whole story didn't make sense until the last dungeon. Maybe that was the grand reveal I don't know.

Combat was really fun though. I liked switching up gambits in the moment and learning some of the more difficult fights. Except darkja that was dumb. I still have some hunts, hell wyrm, trial mode, and omega left. Maybe I'll do it maybe I'll move on. Not sure which I should do next: finish IV steam version (done original) or do a 1-3. 7R is up once it's on pc. Might get a new pc too.

I picked this up on Switch recently and I'm looking forward to it. I always respected XII for having more straightforward characters and plot motivations; it's weirdly refreshing in the JRPG genre?

Unrelated: anyone know have any tips for the first battle in FFT? Maybe it's just a sign that I'm not cut out for the game, but I can't find a way to do it that feels like anything other than a pyrrhic victory.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.


JagerNinja posted:

I picked this up on Switch recently and I'm looking forward to it. I always respected XII for having more straightforward characters and plot motivations; it's weirdly refreshing in the JRPG genre?

Unrelated: anyone know have any tips for the first battle in FFT? Maybe it's just a sign that I'm not cut out for the game, but I can't find a way to do it that feels like anything other than a pyrrhic victory.

Like the very first one? You can deploy more than just Ramza

JagerNinja
Sep 13, 2011

Late for my I-llama-nati meeting.


Bregor posted:

Like the very first one? You can deploy more than just Ramza

Yeah, I realized that (on my second attempt), but still get my poo poo pushed in. I'm bad at chess and most things that involve moving pieces on a board, so maybe I just need to git gud.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.


JagerNinja posted:

Yeah, I realized that (on my second attempt), but still get my poo poo pushed in. I'm bad at chess and most things that involve moving pieces on a board, so maybe I just need to git gud.

Early tips: Bring Chemists and use potions liberally. Donít spread out attacks, focus fire on one enemy until theyíre down. Pay attention to who acts next. Donít worry about keeping the guest character(s) up, their actions are unreliable and if they get knocked out they donít have a death countdown timer.

After the first two battles you can get random encounters in the plains and unlock more useful Jobs.

Cattail Prophet
Apr 12, 2014



NikkolasKing posted:

I mean, the Returners didn't really do anything bad that I can recall. AVALANCHE were terrorists, even if they were terrorists with a pretty objectively right cause. Maybe this goes back to the topic from a page or so ago, ambition and daring has been lost in a lot of video games in the contemporary age. Heroes who blow up innocent people just can't be done anymore. Maybe?

But my point is, FFVI is a pretty black-and-white conflict. No greys at all. They can keep Gestahl being a shithead or Kefka ending the world, shouldn't be anything wrong about that. And the misfits determined to bring justice and peace back to the land can be exactly that all over again.

There was more moral ambiguity in FFIV of all games now I think on it. Cecil did some awful poo poo for the Baron Empire, to say nothing of Kain, while the only traitor in VI was Celes and I don't think she is said to have done anything bad in her stint as general.

There is that whole thing where Banon acknowledges that the Returners are doing basically the same thing as the Empire re: using Terra for their own ends, but it doesn't really go anywhere past the scenario split. And it's not intentional, but the party does bear some level of responsibility for Vector getting sacked by the espers.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Veib posted:

Reremake III and make it good this time

The closest we're going to get to a non-trash FF3 is the content in FFXIV.

Barudak posted:

Give me Final Fantasy Dimensions 2 but not the one we got, an actual sequel to FF Dimensions 1

Also use different writers because FFD's writing is TAY or FFBE season 3 levels of bad.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




If you want a fresh take on FF3 thatís actually good play FFV, Fiesta FFV, or play bravely games. Just do not play FF3.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007


None of those games have Eternal Wind though

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





CharlieFoxtrot posted:

None of those games have Eternal Wind though

Also has one of my favorite normal boss themes in the series
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMAGtTmmx0s

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


Mustached Demon posted:

Finished up FFXII after waltzing up to ultima and rolled over it. The ending was quite satisfying really. Wrapped up everything nicely and had a neat boss sequence at the end. I was incredibly overpowered for it but I knew that was coming after getting all the espers. Knight with excalibur and white robe is a mean, mean knight (except vs holy immune). Really happy we didn't have to beat up the floating coffin guy. He was there and turned Vayne into steampunk bahamut but whatever it was still Vayne the whole time. Coffin guy was just... there.

XIIs theme felt pretty different from other FFs. Like the cast didn't stumble upon some great evil rising or set out as heroes. There wasn't a really a grand reveal like I expected. The casts motivations stayed basically the same the whole time. Their growth was dealing with seeking justice vs vengeance. I think the scale of the world overtook the story a lot. Too much to build upon so areas often felt plot deprived. Then at certain points you get a plot dump and a whole crap load happens. Was tough to follow at times and really the whole story didn't make sense until the last dungeon. Maybe that was the grand reveal I don't know.

Combat was really fun though. I liked switching up gambits in the moment and learning some of the more difficult fights. Except darkja that was dumb. I still have some hunts, hell wyrm, trial mode, and omega left. Maybe I'll do it maybe I'll move on. Not sure which I should do next: finish IV steam version (done original) or do a 1-3. 7R is up once it's on pc. Might get a new pc too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4P2N5fyqbo
<Config>ulations.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Evil Fluffy posted:

Also use different writers because FFD's writing is TAY or FFBE season 3 levels of bad.

Look, we launch alba into the sun and a good 15% of the games dialog is better right there.

Vikar Jerome
Nov 26, 2013

I believe Emmanuelle is shit, though Emmanuelle 2, Emmanuelle '77 and Goodbye, Emmanuelle may be very good movies.

Snow Cone Capone posted:

o hey neat, I guess:




IX too, at least on switch but probably also ps4.



i liked the VIII ps4 boxart but lol at IX.

Help Im Alive
Nov 8, 2009



I didn't know until just now that FF boxarts being white backgrounds with the cool amano logos was only a Europe/Japan thing

Barudak
May 7, 2007



If the US had unique boxart it is always the worst version

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

According to market research americans are dumb.

(Not implying americans are dumb)

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




The Amano box arts are just so dope.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





Get Lightning off my FFXIII-2 cover and logo. She's in 1% of the game.

And I thought it was bad when Seifer ended up being a bit player in FVIII despite being so prominent on the FFVIII US cover.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




NikkolasKing posted:

Get Lightning off my FFXIII-2 cover and logo. She's in 1% of the game.

And I thought it was bad when Seifer ended up being a bit player in FVIII despite being so prominent on the FFVIII US cover.

The way that the director or whatever felt about Lightning reminds me of that.. trend? Or whatever? In the 2000s of people who full on deluded themselves into thinking Sephiroth or Cloud or whoever lived in their head.

Lightning was fine. I hated how stupid-thin they made her model, but her character overall was fine. It sucks that they made her into a smoldering Cloud wannabe when Cloud is actually something of an idiot goofball.

Every FF protagonist should be Bartz/Butz.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


jokes posted:

Every FF protagonist should be Bartz/Butz.

The last time we had a Butz we all swapped him out for Balthier, though.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.



Toilet Rascal

Zidane and Tidus were kinda in the Butz mold.

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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Yeah but Vaan didnít have a shirt on and didnít have a job until the game started, making him more of a Florida Butz.

Zidane, Tidus, Locke, arguably Cloud kinda, Zell, all solid Butz iterations.

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