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The White Dragon posted:well fartz and bartz are just one letter apart so why isnt his job class flatulent npc How do you know he doesn't sing with his rear end?
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Oct 19, 2020 00:16
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Bruceski posted:I'm so glad FF14 embraced that. The lead-in quests to one of the FFT raids included fighting 2 red chocobos and was quite deadly (apparently even worse when first released, and not made easier when you got aggroed by the ones everyone else spawned doing the quest) and the new relic weapon zone has more of them including a boss encounter. I really appreciate how sassy the cast animation looks in FFT and will need to pay closer attention to see what they do for that in FF14 lol
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Oct 19, 2020 02:06
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Bregor posted:There's a while where the Lion War / political intrigue is still intertwined with the Zodiac Stones. But by late game that's all background noise to Lucavi Ghostbusters. Delita's story is much more interesting and I wish we got a branching gameplay option to see that half of the plot. You mean tactics ogre?
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Oct 19, 2020 02:39
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FFT is definitely Tactics Ogre for the first part and then Concentrated Final Fantasy. Tactics Ogre is just such a solid game/setting I'm surprised it's abandoned.
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Oct 19, 2020 02:51
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jokes posted:FFT is definitely Tactics Ogre for the first part and then Concentrated Final Fantasy. Well, I've long been turned off by the name, having assumed it was some variant on the Orcs vs. Men storyline a la Warcraft. But having just checked Wikipedia, that's apparently not the case and the game was named after a song by Queen? I mean, that's on me for judging a book by its cover (or title, in this case) but c'mon, how was I supposed to know the game called Tactics Ogre had very little to do with actual ogres? JagerNinja fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 03:02
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JagerNinja posted:Well, I've long been turned off by the name, having assumed it was some variant on the Orcs vs. Men storyline a la Warcraft. But having just checked Wikipedia, that's apparently not the case and the game was named after a song by Queen? There are ogres in Ogrebattle 64-- they're a big part of the plot! Tactics Ogres, though, are almost entirely fighting humans.
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Oct 19, 2020 03:11
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lobster22221 posted:You mean tactics ogre? Exactly!  Seriously, if we ever got a proper console remake of TO, building on the PSP version, fixing crafting, fixing class leveling (or at the very least letting you reset class levels to 1 when you restart via WORLD) I think it would instantly become my favorite game of all time.
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Oct 19, 2020 03:14
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JagerNinja posted:Well, I've long been turned off by the name, having assumed it was some variant on the Orcs vs. Men storyline a la Warcraft. But having just checked Wikipedia, that's apparently not the case and the game was named after a song by Queen? Tactics Ogre is based on Matsuno's reaction to the post-Yugoslav Wars https://twitter.com/Dreamboum/status/1264029012055265282 
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Oct 19, 2020 03:31
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It’s one of the best RPGs, and supposedly is one of the reasons Yoshida joined SE so basically Final Fantasy owes its existence to Tactics Ogre. He also liked FF3, though, but he probably was a bit more hardcore than most.
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Oct 19, 2020 03:43
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JagerNinja posted:Well, I've long been turned off by the name, having assumed it was some variant on the Orcs vs. Men storyline a la Warcraft. But having just checked Wikipedia, that's apparently not the case and the game was named after a song by Queen? Yeah, Ogre Battle, March of the Black Queen, and Let Us Cling Together are all Queen songs. Person of Lordly Caliber sounds like it could be a Queen song but I don't think it is.
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Oct 19, 2020 03:44
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Ogre Battle 64 is so friggin' good and knowing it's on Wii U but not Switch really bugs me.
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Oct 19, 2020 04:30
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Similar to how all the floors in Deep Dungeon in FFT had names: NOGIAS (SAIGON) TERMINATE DELTA VALKYRIES MLAPAN (NAPALM) TIGER BRIDGE VOYAGE HORROR END which is a basic outline of the film Apocalypse Now
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Oct 19, 2020 04:38
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I'm watching a guy speedrun Chrono Cross and remembering how lazy some of the narrative decisions are why are there two different subplots about how evil the Masamune has become and its corrupting sway on two different sets of Dragoons? why is it even the Masamune, how'd it get to this peninsula?
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Oct 19, 2020 04:56
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I'm watching a guy speedrun Chrono Cross and remembering how lazy some of the narrative decisions are Well the story is about two parallel universes that split off from each other at a certain point, I don't see a problem with it depicting the same super plot important artifact in both worlds. Same for the Dragoons - they're pivotal figures in the region so their actions in both worlds have to be addressed. I was more wondering at the fact Another Riddel's Dario is super dead but she's more than happy to shack up with Home Dario. Lotta existential questions there. As for why the Masamune is there...that I can't say.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:09
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jokes posted:FFT is definitely Tactics Ogre for the first part and then Concentrated Final Fantasy. Tactics Ogre has always been the best of those games. The PSX one had its issues but I'd sooner take its leveling system over the clusterfuck grindhell that the PSP remake uses. At least on the PSX version if I want levels I can just let two clerics punch each other in the face for an hour while I do something else. JagerNinja posted:Well, I've long been turned off by the name, having assumed it was some variant on the Orcs vs. Men storyline a la Warcraft. But having just checked Wikipedia, that's apparently not the case and the game was named after a song by Queen? wizardofloneliness posted:Yeah, Ogre Battle, March of the Black Queen, and Let Us Cling Together are all Queen songs. Person of Lordly Caliber sounds like it could be a Queen song but I don't think it is. It's not. Matsuno wasn't involved in OB64 or Knight of Lodis (also not a Queen song).
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Oct 19, 2020 05:11
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jokes posted:FFT is definitely Tactics Ogre for the first part and then Concentrated Final Fantasy. It's died the same death a thousand Japanese franchises did- crushed under the dual weights of companies struggling to cope with how to handle HD-era development and the mobile boom sucking away all their effort to assemble smaller teams. Also see and the dead corpses of franchises from Capcom, Sega, Namco, Temco Koei, Konami (kinda, Konami is it's own ball of gently caress's sake there,) Irem, etc., etc.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:11
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A new Ogre Battle or Tactics Ogre would almost certainly be a 3D modeled game and lose some of its charm. I'd still rather see more games in that series than FFXVI but at least YoshiP is leading that so I have higher hopes of it being good.
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Oct 19, 2020 05:14
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Tactics Ogre: Fat Bottom Girls, coming Summer 2022
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Oct 19, 2020 05:20
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wizardofloneliness posted:Yeah, Ogre Battle, March of the Black Queen, and Let Us Cling Together are all Queen songs. Person of Lordly Caliber sounds like it could be a Queen song but I don't think it is. I have significant problems with Tactics Ogre but I will forever respect Matsuno for just straight up naming his TRPG series after a Queen song and shoving as many references as he could in there (iirc one of the locations in TO was called the Seven Seas of Rhye but renamed to Rhime or some poo poo.)
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Oct 19, 2020 06:20
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Well, y'all have convinced me. What's the best place to start with the Ogre series? Is Tactics Ogre the preferred game or should I try to find Ogre Battle?
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Oct 19, 2020 06:42
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JagerNinja posted:Well, y'all have convinced me. What's the best place to start with the Ogre series? Is Tactics Ogre the preferred game or should I try to find Ogre Battle? Tactics Ogre is a very different game from OB/OB64- TO is a TRPG while Ogre Battle is a kind of a fusion between RTS and RPG elements. All three are really good, although the original Ogre Battle can be kinda rough for a first playthrough without at least some kind of basic mechanics guide because OB is not a fan of explaining a goddamn thing and there's a LOT going on in that game mechanically. The only wrong answer is Knights of Lodis, which is both a prequel to Tactis Ogre that expects you know know TO and is not very good. Well, ok, the only wrong answer is Knights of Lodis or a pre-LUCT version of Tactics Ogre unless you like grinding your face against Training Battles between most story matches. TO has a lot of good elements, but it kinda takes the rerelease to be 'playable' in the modern sense.
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Oct 19, 2020 06:51
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lobster22221 posted:You mean tactics ogre? It's always been my (unlikely) pet theory that FF:T was supposed to have a branching narrative only for Square to nix it before active development began. Matsuno then recycled those plot points into the Delita plotline.
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Oct 19, 2020 09:15
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JagerNinja posted:Well, y'all have convinced me. What's the best place to start with the Ogre series? Is Tactics Ogre the preferred game or should I try to find Ogre Battle? The order doesn't really matter, but you should play Let Us Cling Together (PSP) first and, arguably, only. They're all good games but some are more tedious/nail bitingly frustrating/need a strategy guide to not gently caress up. Let Us Cling Together is the best/most approachable. The other ones are all technically connected but not in any apparent way. Like, the biggest connection is that a handful of characters might overlap between two games. The main character from March of the Black Queen becomes a side character you CAN recruit in OB64 but doesn't appear in any other iterations. OB64 is the "last" in chronological order, I think. The Knights of Lodis is a direct tie-in to Let Us Cling Together via a post-game cinematic revealing the origin of one of the bad guys from Let Us Cling Together. Ogre Battle and Ogre Battle 64 are also completely different game genres than Let Us Cling Together and Knights of Lodis, which are more standard SRPGs. You should play Let Us Cling Together. Everyone should play Let Us Cling Together. Things to know before playing it: 1) use the time travel mechanic thing liberally 2) the red hair dude with wings you get at the beginning is one of the strongest characters, but not like "TG Cid breaks the game" strong 3) let the AI control a lot of your characters because it gets tedious controlling 12 dudes in a fight 4) save often 5) there is no completely right or wrong decision. Once you beat the game, you get an in-game mechanic to go back and do things differently to see what happens. It rules. jokes fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 09:42
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JagerNinja posted:Well, y'all have convinced me. What's the best place to start with the Ogre series? Is Tactics Ogre the preferred game or should I try to find Ogre Battle? Ogre Battle 64 is excellent, but much more focused on large-scale strategy - every map, you deploy 40+ characters in teams and battles are fought automatically. So it's closer to a typical war-game with RPG elements than a FFT-style "squad of a few people fighting another squad". Ditto for Ogre Battle: March of Black Queen, which also adds some SNES-era obscure mechanics jank. Mr. Locke posted:It's died the same death a thousand Japanese franchises did- crushed under the dual weights of companies struggling to cope with how to handle HD-era development and the mobile boom sucking away all their effort to assemble smaller teams. Also see and the dead corpses of franchises from Capcom, Sega, Namco, Temco Koei, Konami (kinda, Konami is it's own ball of gently caress's sake there,) Irem, etc., etc. Anybody have recommendations for a good Ogre Battle 64 style game? I've looked (albeit not very hard) and haven't really found anything with that same war-game/RPG mix. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 13:14
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JagerNinja posted:Well, y'all have convinced me. What's the best place to start with the Ogre series? Is Tactics Ogre the preferred game or should I try to find Ogre Battle? If you care about the sequence of the Ogre Battle Saga, then play SNES OB, OB64, PSP TO If not, then start with PSP TO, because it's the best one. It still frustrates me that the three games are "Ogre Battle Saga: Episodes V, VI, and VII" respectively. We should have at least four games in the story before this.  Knight of Lodis isn't canon or a proper "Episode". It's inferior to TO in pretty much every way but still has some interesting story points.
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Oct 19, 2020 14:26
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Fister Roboto posted:which is a basic outline of the film Apocalypse Now
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Oct 19, 2020 15:23
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If you can stomach retro games at all, just start with the OG Ogre Battle for SNES. Maybe you won't finish it, but you'll probably get a good 10 chapters in or so and will experience the bulk of what the game can offer. If you're the kind of player that needs to do things optimally, you'll have a strict checklist of things to do. If not, just make some cool units and march them around the map fighting things. It doesn't matter unless you're going the long haul. From there look at OB64, and you can see where they simplified things, and where they added more complexity. Either of the Tactics Ogre releases (SNES w/ patch/PSX or PSP) are fine, although the levelling in PSP is so tedious I find it hard to recommend it to someone not already willing to suffer. The translation is gold though. Knight of Lodis GBA is a fine title, for a GBA strategy game. It may be the weakest of the series released in the west, but it's still a good enough game. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Oct 19, 2020 |
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Oct 19, 2020 16:24
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^^^ Person of Lordly Caliber was the OB64 sub title, GBA is Knight of Lodis.
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Oct 19, 2020 16:29
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Oops. Fixed it.
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Oct 19, 2020 16:38
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Mr. Locke posted:The only wrong answer is Knights of Lodis, which is both a prequel to Tactis Ogre that expects you know know TO and is not very good. Well, ok, the only wrong answer is Knights of Lodis or a pre-LUCT version of Tactics Ogre unless you like grinding your face against Training Battles between most story matches. TO has a lot of good elements, but it kinda takes the rerelease to be 'playable' in the modern sense. Just lol if you're ever manually grinding in the PSX Tactics Ogre. As soon as you get Presence (and his 2nd copy of cure) you just have him and your starter cleric spar each other for a few levels, then send them in to a training fight with your other party members to level off of. It's dumb but still less awful than the LUCT leveling system. Knight of Lodis is fine. It's not as good as LUCT but it's still better than FFTA or FFTA2 which are build on the bones of Tactics Ogre and lovely law systems.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:02
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I didn’t have problems with the LUCT leveling system. The only issue came up with “unique” jobs and even then they just take a backseat for a handful of battles. Is the problem that you have to finish battles for exp?
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Oct 19, 2020 18:05
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I was fine with PSP LUCT levelling until chapter 4 when I got a half dozen characters with unique classes that were basically useless because they were 21 levels below everyone else. Being unique, they didn't have any good ways to power level them either.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:09
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IIRC it scales XP so that the jobs with the lowest XP get more than other jobs so it shouldn’t take long to power level them (just keep them out of the fight?).
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Oct 19, 2020 18:18
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jokes posted:IIRC it scales XP so that the jobs with the lowest XP get more than other jobs so it shouldn’t take long to power level them (just keep them out of the fight?). It does but if you only have one unit that can use a certain class, a la Knight Commander, Wicce, etc., leveling them up takes more that just a couple fights and it gets very tedious. Especially so if you're playing the game on another path via WORLD and your units are quite high level, or if the jobs are only available in the CODA. You can also change them to a class that's properly leveled, but then you lose their unique abilities, so what's the point? Or you can get some SP with a basic class and then switch them back to their unique class for leveling on easy battles, but that requires a classmark which is often a rare drop from some obscure battle somewhere and they're consumable. Basically, it's way more tedious and difficult than it has any right to be, which is kind of the mantra for a lot of mechanics in PSP TO.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:37
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I guess I didn't gently caress with enough of TO because I only had to re-level, like, two new jobs. Wicce requires some grind-a-thon poo poo to get, right? Diamond pumpkin or whatever? I missed out on Ozma because, frankly, she seemed rude. But yeah there was a lot of tedium. Thankfully, if you plan ahead, you can make a really capable group win battles for you without any input with AI commands. I only ever controlled the Denam by the end.
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Oct 19, 2020 19:30
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jokes posted:I guess I didn't gently caress with enough of TO because I only had to re-level, like, two new jobs. Wicce requires some grind-a-thon poo poo to get, right? Diamond pumpkin or whatever? I missed out on Ozma because, frankly, she seemed rude. Yeah you need to farm 30 Glass Pumpkins, which are non-100% drops in the Palace of the Dead, then sell them to Deneb before you begin the quest to recruit her. It's not fun! Honestly with enough 2H Bows and Crossbows and some competent magic users the main storyline is pretty easy. Part of the tedium of the game is getting rare weapons, recruiting every character, crafting, the 100+ floor endgame dungeon, etc. which are entirely optional but enough players get bogged down with so much content that it clouds the perception of the game IMO.
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Oct 19, 2020 19:39
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Yeah it was honestly fine until I decided to use the special characters in chapter 4. Off the top of my head, I had: Deneb, Ozma, Azelstan, Vyce, Catiua. One of the White Knights and Lindl, too. It didn't really matter since Canopus, Arycelle, and Sara dismantled most fights, but I wanted to use the special squad.
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Oct 19, 2020 20:07
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I still do not understand how Arycelle was so powerful. Her stats weren't THAT much more than a typical archer but she fuckin' BUSTED dudes. Canopus ended up being a melee dude for me somehow.
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Oct 19, 2020 20:27
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Arycelle is a railgun cleverly disguised as a woman with a bow.
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Oct 19, 2020 21:07
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Captain Oblivious posted:Arycelle is a railgun cleverly disguised as a woman with a bow. Alignment:
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Oct 19, 2020 21:11
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