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Captain Oblivious posted:Doesn’t seem weird at all to me. Based on the tastes they’ve expressed they probably wouldn’t like FF7R. It's something you see with a lot of Big Deal Games, honestly, people really not getting 'I have a lot of reference points to say I won't like this game' and the response being some form of 'you're wrong, play it'. The most blatant I saw was when someone in PYF said that they weren't interested in Disco Elysium because they weren't interested in playing a story about a male cop, and... a LOT of people getting really indignant that they'd dismiss the game for something like that, despite their big hold-up literally being the entire focus of the game. I'm honestly really disappointed they did this with the VII remake, because I like VII quite a lot (not even nostalgically, I first played it in 2016) and I think that it's an interesting direction to take a remake. Unfortunately they decided it should be a type of game that has a 0% hit rate with me, that I will literally never have the capacity to really enjoy. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 10:53
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Nobody is expecting you to play a game that doesn't interest you, but at the same time nobody is going to take your critiques about the game's combat mechanics very seriously, either.
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Sep 18, 2020 10:56
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NikkolasKing posted:You don't like Final Fantasy X? That's a rare opinion. I know I loved it. Fun story about ffx: for like 15 years i thought i hated it until i replayed it and realized i just hated the very unsubtle "this character kills this monster type, also there are like 20 pallette swaps so you dont get confused" combat. The story was actually good! I love smt but its not like you are really playing for the combat. Idk about you but i like it cause i like mythology and learning about it and i really like the fusion of historical dieties with modern aesthetics. Granted i do think the combat in 4A is my favorite for a turn based game but thats niether here nor there
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Sep 18, 2020 11:51
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It's sad there's no enemy type only kimahri can deal with
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Sep 18, 2020 12:06
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I prefer turn-based and all, but FF has clearly went towards action RPG for years now, and that's fine because the series does whatever from game to game anyway, and there's still plenty of alternatives. Hell, I play FF9 for it's story and FF5 for it's gameplay. I don't ever replay FF8 or 13 and that's fine, others love those games and replay them constantly and that's fine. If FF16 doesn't appeal to me, so be it, I love this series but can live with not liking every game in it, especially with so many other games out there to enjoy.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:11
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Just kidding, my favorites are the best and your favorites are actually trash.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:11
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mandatory lesbian posted:Granted i do think the combat in 4A is my favorite for a turn based game but thats niether here nor there If you enjoyed 4's combat, I seriously recommend The After Years, as they mostly keep it the same with a few gimmicks but throw a ton of bosses in the late game as well as a ton of characters to mess around with.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:13
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Help Im Alive posted:It's sad there's no enemy type only kimahri can deal with Kimahri is only effective against Kimahri.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:16
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Mega64 posted:If you enjoyed 4's combat, I seriously recommend The After Years, as they mostly keep it the same with a few gimmicks but throw a ton of bosses in the late game as well as a ton of characters to mess around with. This is probably the first time in history anyone has recced the after years to anyone lol
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Sep 18, 2020 12:28
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Mega64 posted:If you enjoyed 4's combat, I seriously recommend The After Years, as they mostly keep it the same with a few gimmicks but throw a ton of bosses in the late game as well as a ton of characters to mess around with. I uh, think they meant SMT4 Apocalypse, chief.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:31
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also yeah i meant apocalypse, 4 is similar but 4a has a bit more refinement and the ally system is muuuuuch better then 4's (which honestly barely feels like it exists)
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Sep 18, 2020 12:35
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mandatory lesbian posted:Fun story about ffx: for like 15 years i thought i hated it until i replayed it and realized i just hated the very unsubtle "this character kills this monster type, also there are like 20 pallette swaps so you dont get confused" combat. The story was actually good! I think the big reason I like SMT (and Persona) is that it's essentially high-stakes rock-paper-scissors, but that's a system that only works when it also has an element of compromise. The notion that you'll always have a weakness, and that something could come along that'll gently caress you right up, so your goal is to keep track of and reduce your weaknesses, while struggling with the fact that you'll always have them. I love the aesthetics and story to bits, but there is a core to that gameplay that works wonderfully; it's not complicated, but it is unforgiving of mistakes. The only one that didn't really stick that landing in my book is SMTIV. SMT struggled with the realization the widely-available internet brought on that people will happily take a more tedious route than a harder one, and so people were just making invincible superdemons by resetting the fusion menu for hours rather than deal with having a weakness to electricity or a lack of a multitarget fire spell; SMTIV tried to solve that, but accidentally ended up making it too easy to make invincible superdemons, which just meant that nobody had difficulty with it. They didn't take too long to find a proper balance again, which Persona 5 can attest to (and I think SMTIVA, but I didn't play it), but it does just mean that one game feels weirdly limp. The Press Turn system is probably my favorite straight turn-based system, but since I include ATB as 'turn-based' I think Chrono Trigger probably has the strongest approach to turn-based overall, giving a lot of outright meaning and synergy to all the individual parts of it rather than the 'a bunch of unrelated mechanics happening at the same time' feel you can get sometimes. EDIT: Honorable mention to the Bravely games' system, as well as Octopath Traveler's mostly-identical system. That's probably my second favorite straight turn-based, but the fact that it's extremely breakable is admittedly a double-edged sword that relies heavily on the rest of the game's design. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Sep 18, 2020 |
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Sep 18, 2020 12:41
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exquisite tea posted:Nobody is expecting you to play a game that doesn't interest you, but at the same time nobody is going to take your critiques about the game's combat mechanics very seriously, either. Yeah it's a world of difference between "I don't like this style of combat" and "The combat in this game I've never played sucks rear end and is the worst" and you picked the dumber option Cleretic. Help Im Alive posted:It's sad there's no enemy type only kimahri can deal with Ronsos.
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Sep 18, 2020 12:45
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Cleretic posted:I mean I also hate the combat of the VII remake, as much as someone who doesn't own a PS4 is apparently legally allowed to. If I asked you to name the number of Turn-based RPGs with Final Fantasy levels of money, you wouldn't be able to name any except for just recently Like a Dragon, a series trying something new from its action RPG roots. Every single game you continuously compare FF to has, comparatively a tiny rear end budget which they are clearly not interested in having for FF which is their flagship 'cinematic' game. In general, it's a bad idea from a portfolio standard to have Dragon Quest AND FF both be Turn-based RPGs anyway, since Dragon Quest then becomes "Final Fantasy, but with less money" Rather than the niche it enjoys now as a traditional turn-based RPG. So turn-based RPGs aren't dead, but big-budget ones sure as gently caress are, and if Pokemon, the one company who could push forward WITH a big budget turn based RPG, wont, because it wouldn't be financially viable, why should FF?
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Sep 18, 2020 13:27
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Even though I adore turn-based JRPGs, I'm pretty comfortable with the mainline Final Fantasy series being action games from here onward. The series has been trending in this direction for decades, with a brief detour for a fully turn-based FFX. It really never even entered my head that it would be possible for a Final Fantasy game not to be an action game after FFXV finally just went there, and FFVIIR made it actually fun. The big thing that sticks out for me is just how much XVI is fuckin' Capcom action, though, from the looks of it (which makes sense, given who the combat director appears to be). This is Ifrit May Cry, the RPG. Bahamut's Dogma. I'm pretty stoked for it, really.
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Sep 18, 2020 13:43
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Ronsos. But Kimahri is small Ronso! No horn!
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Sep 18, 2020 13:45
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I just hope they bring back something like the Gambit system from XII for the party members you don't control. For once I'd like an ARPG where the party members you don't control directly aren't borderline useless dipshits half the time.
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Sep 18, 2020 13:59
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Idkbutlike2 posted:I just hope they bring back something like the Gambit system from XII for the party members you don't control. For once I'd like an ARPG where the party members you don't control directly aren't borderline useless dipshits half the time. An ARPG where you can pseudo program your allies sounds rad
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Sep 18, 2020 14:09
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Every Final Fantasy in the new millennia has inspired arguments about the awful opportunity cost of the new Final Fantasy not being turn based. The argument will be old enough to vote by the time 16 is out. FF10 and 10-2 were great send offs of the classic turnbased and American Football based jRPG combats. FF is the marquee franchise though, meant to demonstrate new designs. So as soon as it goes back to chasing the highs of 1997 you shouldn't be excited even as a TB fan because it means the FF spirit is bankrupt.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:17
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Can't wait to give my party 20 potions to make them use AoEs on large crowds and also tell me how to fight wolves and skeletons 50 times a day
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Sep 18, 2020 14:20
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Onmi posted:If I asked you to name the number of Turn-based RPGs with Final Fantasy levels of money, you wouldn't be able to name any except for just recently Like a Dragon, a series trying something new from its action RPG roots. Every single game you continuously compare FF to has, comparatively a tiny rear end budget which they are clearly not interested in having for FF which is their flagship 'cinematic' game. In general, it's a bad idea from a portfolio standard to have Dragon Quest AND FF both be Turn-based RPGs anyway, since Dragon Quest then becomes "Final Fantasy, but with less money" Rather than the niche it enjoys now as a traditional turn-based RPG. I think that's less of a problem with JRPGs, and more a problem with Final Fantasy, which has consistently had eyes bigger than its stomach since like, 2003, and keeps trying to justify that. It's hard to put a number to a Final Fantasy's budgets since then not because they're so big, but because they're so mismanaged. The most digestible number I can find in terms of budget there is $65 million for FFXIII, but there's no telling where and when that money happened given how nuts that development was. I can't find any numbers for Persona 5, but they literally stunted on the competition with what was definitely much less money. And the reason Pokemon doesn't 'push forward with a big-budget turn-based RPG' isn't because they can't, it's because they don't need to. They've got Pokemon down to a science, they know exactly how big it should be, which is a self-awareness that's eluded Final Fantasy since somewhere around The Spirits Within. I feel like Final Fantasy has gotten so ridiculously high-budget that it thinks previous strategies, or strategies used by smaller games in the same genre, just can't work. But that's not actually proven; the times they've tried just 'making a real good turn-based JRPG with a lot of money' they mismanaged it super hard and blew the budget sky-high, first with XII and then with XIII. And they had the exact same problems when they then tried to instead make it an action game. And then as far as I can tell they did it again, but not much has come out about the specifics of the 7 remake's development. I feel like Final Fantasy has learned many, many wrong lessons over the last too-many-years. And I really wish they didn't, because god damnit I just want some pretty, insane, largely optimistic high fantasy JRPG. But they have apparently instead decided that their only option is Diabolos May Cry.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:21
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multijoe posted:Can't wait to give my party 20 potions to make them use AoEs on large crowds and also tell me how to fight wolves and skeletons 50 times a day I demand 8 different versions of the tree conversation
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Sep 18, 2020 14:27
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Cleretic posted:I feel like Final Fantasy has gotten so ridiculously high-budget that it thinks previous strategies, or strategies used by smaller games in the same genre, just can't work. If nothing else, it looks like the budget/development time ballooning stuff might not be happening this time. Early reports suggest FFXVI might actually have a pretty normal dev cycle, and not "Final Fantasy" normal but just, like, functional studio normal. If that's the case then it makes sense, given it's Yoshida's division. He's not directing, sure, but I can't imagine that, after being so hands-on in rescuing one of Square Enix's most high-profile debacles, he'd let things get out of hand on his watch. All of that remains to be seen, of course, but it would also explain why the graphics in the trailer aren't completely insane, too. It looked good, but realistic, like they're not shooting for the moon this time--they just want to make a good game and release it without burning piles of money for a decade. At the same time, I also don't think that Final Fantasy becoming an action game is necessarily because they think it can't work otherwise. The series has tried to be more and more real-time and pseudo-action for a very long time. Is it all that crazy they'd eventually just start making it a full-on action RPG? Like I think it's an action game because they want to make an action game.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:27
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Diabolos May Cry sounds pretty rad, NGL.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:29
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stev posted:Fwiw I completely agree that the game needs proper female representation. That was the main worry I took from the trailer.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:31
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Because what I expect from the very first trailer is to see the entire cast.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:34
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Even FFXV's trailer I'm pretty sure included the party in the game play, not just a solo dude doing some multihit combo.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:44
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I hope you only play as one guy so we can see how bad this thread can really get
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Sep 18, 2020 14:49
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grieving for Gandalf posted:I hope you only play as one guy so we can see how bad this thread can really get Even if it's a DMC-like, I'd expect a couple of other characters you can play as with their own movesets. I wouldn't be at all surprised by no party though.
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Sep 18, 2020 14:52
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Honestly, after thinking about it, I feel like FFXIII was about the level of things that I'd want, and over time I've gone from laughing at how horribly it was mismanaged to just sorta lamenting it. They ended XIII with a pretty decent idea for how to recoup a big budget, with a bulk of the things they made intended to be reused in spinoffs and direct sequels, and gameplay that pretends well enough to be 'action' while basically still being turn-based, or at least menu-based. It's just a shame it took them so much fumbling to get to that point. ...and then hosed it up on basically every spinoff and sequel, too.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:06
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It eventually gave us Lighting Returns, so a worthy sacrifice all things considered.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:07
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I'm not sure if I am the only one but I don't give even the slightest gently caress about the combat system in a Final Fantasy. I liked combat in all of them well enough. It's the setting, themes, plot, characters and character build systems (Job, Materia, Sphere Grid, etc) that make or break the game for me. I certainly have my preferences but every combat system has been at least fine. I am a little disappointed the game appears to be a single character ARPG as I really liked swapping characters in VII-R but it is certainly possible there will be more characters and they haven't shown any of that yet.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:17
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I like Lightning Returns a lot, I just wish the quality and perception of the XIII series wasn't so far into the toilet that it sounds like a joke to people when I say that.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:17
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Cleretic posted:because god damnit I just want some pretty, insane, largely optimistic high fantasy JRPG. But they have apparently instead decided that their only option is Diabolos May Cry.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:21
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Why do people always compare ARPGs to Diablo? Diablo is a very specific kind of ARPG and doesn't really compare to any Square games.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:28
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Cleretic posted:I like Lightning Returns a lot, I just wish the quality and perception of the XIII series wasn't so far into the toilet that it sounds like a joke to people when I say that. Lightning Returns is legitimately great
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Sep 18, 2020 15:29
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Action RPGs are good. Turn-based RPGs are also good. I bet FFXVI will be fine. That's just my opinion though.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:34
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Lightning Returns is the best Final Fantasy this decade.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:34
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stev posted:Why do people always compare ARPGs to Diablo? Diablo is a very specific kind of ARPG and doesn't really compare to any Square games. I think the Diabolos Must Cry was a clever joke on Devil May Cry and the FF summon Diabolos
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Sep 18, 2020 15:35
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thetoughestbean posted:I think the Diabolos Must Cry was a clever joke on Devil May Cry and the FF summon Diabolos Oh I see, very witty.
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Sep 18, 2020 15:37
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