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Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Booky posted:

Final Fantasy 2 gba is, good. :colbert:

It isn't. Which brings us to the Official tier list.

S: 4, 5, 6, 7
A: 9, 10-2, 13: LR, Tactics
B: 3, 10, 12, 13, 13-2, 14
C: 1, 8, 15, CC
D: 11, MQ
F: 2

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Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
The 3 remake is weird because I "get" why they did most of what they did, and they're similar to what I would've done if I were remaking 3: rebalance the jobs, make the boss fights tougher/more complex/more interesting.

They just did all of it badly.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

sponges posted:

The Thief is so awful in 1 but I don’t want to restart

He'll be a Ninja one day, please have faith in him

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Re: Kuja, does anybody have a good take on why that design is the way it is? Because using it as a counterexample is kinda weird, given that people have been making fun of it for being goofy for a very long time. It stands out even more to me because FF9 actually has a lot of cool, intricate costume and design work while FF15... doesn't (it's like everyone shops at the same black leather boutique).

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
I'm gonna go ahead and split the difference here and say yes, their costumes are more realistic/naturalistic than any other Final Fantasy or most videogames in general, but they would also still stand out in a lot of places (their clothes look expensive and feature a disproportionate amount of leather, even aside the colormatching; they all have a "character" - Ignis is sharp and professional, Prompto's punk - but they're super coordinated in a way that's also odd).

Which honestly makes sense. They're aristocrats and elite soldiers slumming it. I just think that palette being shared by the entire major cast - other than Cindy they basically never deviate from black, white, and shades of dull red - is boring.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

W.T. Fits posted:

It's supposed to be Sephiros.

ding dong, hercules, chewing gum, rotten teeth
ding dong, killer bees, total war, baby geese
sephiros
sephiros

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Whalley posted:

I hope they add a bonus mode where you can be ultra-fish Cloud for the whole game

I suspect it's gonna take a lot from FF15, including hopefully costumes integrated into the equipment menu

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

kirbysuperstar posted:

Yeah, that's gone swimmingly, what with Terra Battle 2 being utterly shitcanned everywhere and Terra Wars stuck in dev hell.

rofl:

quote:

Mega-budget as it may be, Final Fantasy 15 has always been content to walk its own road, so it’s not that weird that its latest cross-promo update is with a game that doesn’t exist yet. In a big patch released today, Prince Noctis can stumble into a new adventure with Sarah, protagonist of upcoming mobile RPG Terra Wars. It’s being developed by Mistwalker, a team of ex-Square Enix folks. Those playing FF15’s online multiplayer can now also dress up in Lara Croft’s iconic tomb-delving gear, and listen to some Tomb Raider tracks on the radio in-game. Nifty.

FF15 is an ad platform instead of a game, it's the wildest poo poo ever

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
like it's not a surprising turn for the industry, but drat

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

DrNutt posted:

They're not even the good Tomb Raider tracks, that's what's so CRAZY about this, I keep insisting.

just patching a quest into our singleplayer JRPG that came out two and a half years ago to advertise a different developer's mobile game that might never come out

Bruceski posted:

Wait, the game let's you put Noctis in Lara's hotpants and haltertop?

nah, it's for female characters in the multiplayer add-on

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Infinity Gaia posted:

The key difference is ATB allows for variable turn speeds depending on character stats. You can do this in other ways, of course, but that's the idea behind it.

It also affects enemies, in that it can create situations where inputting commands too quickly or too slowly can set you back by having the enemy phase while you're menuing; the most obvious example of this in practice are the various "ATB works this way" bosses at the beginning of every FF from 4-7, who have the exact same gimmick of hitting you with a brutal counter attack if you hit them in the middle of their defensive phase (which they can switch into or out of between you selecting a command and its execution, for example)

In practice that ends up mattering way less than it should, but they do use it for some bosses (the FF4 fiends, you can knock Neo XD in FF5 out of his supermove by inflicting damage after he begins charging, various barrier shift bosses, etc)

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

NikkolasKing posted:

So what's stopping you in the Standard Sphere Grid from diverting course and sending whoever onto another path?

I think I remember reading ESG has everybody start in a middle area or something so it makes it easier to go wherever and do whatever but if you really wanted to, is there anything keeping characters confined to their normal routes in the SSG?

Key spheres. Most of your opportunities to jump from one character's corner of the grid to another's are gated by them.

But it also sorta begs a "what's the point?" Stuff like grabbing black magic on Yuna right at the beginning is handy, but ultimately you want someone who can cover everything (because the game's enemies and bosses are designed to call for specific characters and their spells/abilities/stat distro) so you're mostly just shuffling paths between characters or gimping yourself and making some encounters unduly hard by messing with it, in the normal game anyway.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Re: the linearity thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with people "getting drunk on" the World of Ruin or the optional content density in FF7. FF5 is also super thick with optional, nonlinear content - the last third of the game is basically the prototype for the WoR - it's just that not many Americans played it until recently.

There's a reason 5, 6, and 7 are all popular answers to "what's your favorite Final Fantasy game?" among those who've played most of them. People like sidequests and poo poo. Content and choice are good, who knew?

Baku fucked around with this message at 22:02 on May 14, 2019

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

NikkolasKing posted:

Clearly X-2 and XIII-2 should be the most beloved since they are about 70% sidequest.

But I agree. I think the important part is balance. Too many or too few sidequests can really throw off the pacing.

Honestly, I think X-2 would've been a popular game if it had different themes/wasn't a sequel and didn't get tarred with the "girly game" label, and XIII would be much more popular with longtime fans if it had XIII-2's leveling mechanics (just with a party of 6 instead of monster catching) and less linear structure.

But overall I agree with that. JRPGs hit their sweet spot somewhere between totally linear, cinematic experiences and the freedom-to-be-bored of open-world western games, and most of the best Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy titles are what they are in part bc they live in that sweet spot.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Zodiac Age is also very much a "definitive edition" of the game, which helps. Most people agree the job system makes it better, and they made a lot of other mechanical and aesthetic improvements to polish it up.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Even the class system in SD3 has the glaring flaw that you only reach the final tier of classes with less than 10% of the game to go, so you barely get to interact with the most interesting aspect of the game.

This is an enormous problem, imo. A lot of the classes aren't interesting/have no depth until that final transformation, and it's entirely plausible for someone to beat the game without getting them.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
X and XII are so dramatically different that I think saying which is "better" for me is impossible. Turn-based VS real-time combat, totally different overall game structure, one of the most cinematic and narrative FF experiences VS one of the least (post-NES). They have pretty much nothing in common besides some common franchise language and small aesthetic stuff.

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

antiquated NES-era concepts such as turn-based battles

I don't think turn-based battles make something antiquated, or that having real-time ones make something modern. There have been action RPGs at least since the NES days, and there are great new turn-based games like Persona 5 and DQ11. It's a conscious developer choice about how much they want timing and reflexes to influence the outcome of combat.

Baku fucked around with this message at 11:58 on May 20, 2019

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Barudak posted:

the zodiac age system doesnt change that and if anything makes it easier

I'm 99% sure the balance of Zodiac Age is identical to the original IZJS version that never came out in the US, except that every character now gets two jobs instead of one; there's no way that wouldn't make the game significantly easier

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Open Marriage Night posted:

What’s the best Final Fantasy things that most people don’t see? Like the Yuffie or Barret dates, or Excalibur 2 in FF9.

Limit breaks in FF6; I beat that game multiple times as a kid without seeing one so when someone told me about them it sounded like "my uncle who works at Nintendo" poo poo

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Open Marriage Night posted:

I’ve played it twice, and never seen it. Sounds like a lucky 7’s situation.

You have to be in critical HP (kneeling) status, a certain amount of time has to have elapsed since the beginning of battle, and then if you select the normal Fight command there's a 1/16 chance you'll get one. Given how almost everybody has something better to do than use normal attacks in FF6 for most of the game, it's no wonder people never see them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt7c5-4kOBQ

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Mega64 posted:

The gameplay is a pretty solid improvement if you liked FF4's gameplay. The plot is bonkers and actually has some legit cool moments mixed in with all the terrible writing.

It's a dumb game with a terrible plot but honestly it's not as bad as its reputation seems (which is weird to say because I'm probably most responsible for its bad reputation).

Fanservice is fanservice, but some of it is genuinely cool (like playable Golbez or Edge wearing Rubicant's cloak like a trophy)

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

DrNutt posted:

Not a boss fight per se but Kefka's Tower stopped me from beating FF6 in childhood because I never had the patience to grind enough levels to not just get loving wrecked every time I stepped foot in the tower.

The people who do it with like three or four characters on their first playthrough are total psychos

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

HD DAD posted:

I always felt a lot of VII’s style choices, while definitely cyberpunk, also drew a lot from 40s-50s Americana as well. Turtlenecks, leather jackets, motorcycles, car designs, some of the hairstyles. Not to mention it also has an immediate post-WWII vibe, with the war with Wutai in recent memory, a budding space program...It’s a really neat aesthetic.

I always thought of it as the product of Nomura being into j-rock/punk/etc fashion, which is all informed by Americana anyway because it all goes back to rock music and the culture that popularized it

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

Calaveron posted:

I mean, Cloud, Barret, Cid and Aeris have pretty normal clothes that look like they would be comfortable for the job they're supposed to be doing

Tifa and Yuffie too, really. Tifa's emphasizing her body, but her day job is tending bar (where sex appeal = tips) and her outfit isn't like, unreasonable for a martial artist. Yuffie's dressed like a pretty typical teenage girl - sneakers, midriff top - aside from a couple of touches that allude to her being a ninja and are probably traditional Wutai clothing in the setting (fishnet sleeves/leggings, headband).

FF7 really kind of flies in the face of the trope about FF fashion.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
We'll get one cool 50-hour Midgar game and then the latter two-thirds of the game will be five 2-hour DLCs

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Yeah maybe those are just normal enemies being introduced, tbh

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
I actually don't hate FF12's story/writing. Some of the characters are pretty likable, it has a sense of medium scope that I appreciate, and it doesn't go for the most rote and predictable storytelling; in a way, it has the opposite tack on religion from most Japanese fantasy games, with the villains being the ones who want to "liberate" humanity from magic and superstition.

I think if anything that the story suffers necessarily for that freedom of exploration, because it's sometimes a dozen hours between story beats while you run around giant tomb dungeons and roam the world map looting chests and picking fights with new things. You kinda lose the thread over and over, and the middle chapters aren't very exciting to begin with.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

TheChirurgeon posted:

Then again, whenever I see polls about anything FF done in Japan, the results are always pants-on-head insane so it wouldn't shock me if Vaan and Penelo were fan favorites and putting Balthier or Basch front and center would have caused it to tank in Japanese estimation

As far as I can tell from Googling and glancing, nobody in Japan likes FFXII. Balthier's an incredibly popular character in the US, doing well on polls of Final Fantasy characters overall, but if that's also true in Japan I'm startled that he's so terrible or underutilized in every single FF spinoff/mobile game except his guest spot in WotL.

I'm fine with Vaan and Penelo, though I still think the game would benefit from squashing them into a single character - probably a female one with Vaan's backstory and Penelo's high school crush on Balthier - and then having a male demihuman join the party (Ba'gamnan could've worked and been interesting, giving us insight into the Bangaa and a more cynical perspective than is otherwise present in this party).

Baku fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jun 16, 2019

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
I always just read Zone's thing as him being sort of nervous and cowardly, in contrast to the idea of a debonair revolutionary or whatever. Like it was just a way of conveying why the party needs to help the Timber Owls, but also to underline that if any of them isn't a hapless failson it's Rinoa.

The feelings for Rinoa bit is an interesting take, though I think the ultimate conclusion is the same. Zone doesn't measure up to Squall, and it makes him uncomfortable.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy
Agrias and Mustadio both have really good unique movesets, and are cool dudes.

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Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

precision posted:

I would much rather have them use games like 4 and 6 as the inspiration for 16

I think they're overdue for a sort of "return to roots" game after how absolutely buck wild 13/15 are in terms of gameplay and tone, but I doubt that'll happen bc nostalgia-bux is what the FF7R project is about and that'd be double-dippin'

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