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Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


the resolution to fickle garfield is a little wack but w/e I get that its a personality conflict more than anything and subs found the right way to manage it.

I also didn't get the translation of those lil gals taunting subs too wrt garfield's lover... but whatever. This is kind of dragging, on but despite all the unanswered questions I hope this is the solution life. (It probably will have a climax and a twist and another climax but...)

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Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


"Echidna is more dateable than you" is the coldest burn I've seen yet here on Re:Zero. :dunkedon:

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Grouchio posted:

"Echidna is more dateable than you" is the coldest burn I've seen yet here on Re:Zero. :dunkedon:

Echidna is incredibly dateable so it loses some of it's sting that way.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


Toalpaz posted:

the resolution to fickle garfield is a little wack but w/e I get that its a personality conflict more than anything and subs found the right way to manage it.

I also didn't get the translation of those lil gals taunting subs too wrt garfield's lover... but whatever. This is kind of dragging, on but despite all the unanswered questions I hope this is the solution life. (It probably will have a climax and a twist and another climax but...)

i took that dialogue to mean that ryuzu was speaking the cover story that subaru was having a rendezvous with ram and that she wouldn't tell garf because it would upset him.

Grouchio posted:

"Echidna is more dateable than you" is the coldest burn I've seen yet here on Re:Zero. :dunkedon:

it's also the insult that actually provoked satella into consuming him.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


A big flaming stink posted:

i took that dialogue to mean that ryuzu was speaking the cover story that subaru was having a rendezvous with ram and that she wouldn't tell garf because it would upset him.

Ahhh this makes sense. Sorry the conversation shifted gears and couldn't pin down what the lover was.

Brutal Garcon
Nov 2, 2014



So could Subaru give elf-clone girl the order "Do not feel obliged to follow any orders, past or future, from Echidna or her representatives"? Because I would have at least tried that.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

The Subaru gets consumed by Satella scene is interesting to me because shouldn't Satella know that Subaru can RBD? She seems surprised at Subaru's actions, was it confirmed this ep if it was Emilia who was taken over? My assumption then is its Emilia who was overcome by like, the Witch's Will or something but wasn't for whatever reason actually privvy to what Satella did to Subaru?

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Dzhay posted:

So could Subaru give elf-clone girl the order "Do not feel obliged to follow any orders, past or future, from Echidna or her representatives"? Because I would have at least tried that.

Subaru is obviously trying to get as much information on the base state of things this time around (witness his conversation with Garf at the end), and trying to do something that major would obviously throw a huge, completely unpredictable variable into the equation, and that's exactly what Subaru doesn't want at the moment. Assuming it worked at all, which is also totally unknowable from his perspective.

I'm also kind of surprised we didn't see Roswaal this episode (or did we see some of his memories and don't know it yet?) but then again this show has never hesitated to leave plot threads hanging for a few episodes after a major revelation.

Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Sep 9, 2020

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

Raenir Salazar posted:

The Subaru gets consumed by Satella scene is interesting to me because shouldn't Satella know that Subaru can RBD? She seems surprised at Subaru's actions, was it confirmed this ep if it was Emilia who was taken over? My assumption then is its Emilia who was overcome by like, the Witch's Will or something but wasn't for whatever reason actually privvy to what Satella did to Subaru?

Witches be crazy.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Raenir Salazar posted:

The Subaru gets consumed by Satella scene is interesting to me because shouldn't Satella know that Subaru can RBD? She seems surprised at Subaru's actions, was it confirmed this ep if it was Emilia who was taken over? My assumption then is its Emilia who was overcome by like, the Witch's Will or something but wasn't for whatever reason actually privvy to what Satella did to Subaru?
My take is simply that she doesn't want Subaru to die because she loves him, and is shocked that he would kill himself over spending his life safe with her. She doesn't seem to have a set goal for him other than "stay alive", so Return by Death seems more of a fail-safe than "die to fix things" for her part, regardless of how Subaru uses it.

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



Love me Love me Say that you Love me Subaru-kun

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Annointed posted:

Love me Love me Say that you Love me Subaru-kun

This stood out to me actually, that she used the same honorific that Emilia uses and then Subaru freaking out later when he wakes up next to Emilia again.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010


it was pretty interesting that emilia entirely forgoes her freakout over the trial solely by the fact she sees that subaru needs to be comforted.

hmm subaru maybe this should tell you something about how you should treat emilia in your relationship with you????????????????????????????

darkgray
Dec 20, 2005

My best pose facing the morning sun!


Raenir Salazar posted:

This stood out to me actually, that she used the same honorific that Emilia uses and then Subaru freaking out later when he wakes up next to Emilia again.

Hmmm? It's always Rem who uses "Subaru-kun". Emilia simply says "Subaru" without honorific.

I wonder how people subtitle this sanely without resorting to honorifics.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


I need a drat good echidna gif as a new avatar.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

I ran crying to the mods because someone bought me a title with naughty words in it. (twice!)
I am the world's softest bitch and you you should remind me of it forever. If this text is gone it's because I couldn't handle being a fucking loser.


Smellrose

Grouchio posted:

I need a drat good echidna gif as a new avatar.

And I need a lot of things but I don't beg strangers on a forum for them. Are you on some bizarre version of the internet where Something Awful is the only website you have access to? If not, use loving google you absurd little man.

Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Sep 10, 2020

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Raenir Salazar posted:

Cool episode, one thing I have questions about : why did Garfield backed off of Subaru at the end? Did Subaru say something? I'm not sure I understood that last exchange.
In addition to things already said, here's the author's notes on the episode (he has them for every episode but it's relevant to this question.)
https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/1303708835383713792
https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/1303709096487448576
https://twitter.com/nezumiironyanko/status/1303709325072846850

quote:

Garfiel, who is overwhelmingly stronger physically, being overwhelmed by Subaru is due to him seeing Subaru's eyes in a situation where he could kill him with a flick of his wrist. When Subaru was entirely ready to accept being killed by Garfiel with nothing more than "Ah, that's what you do this time around.", he has gained the will to not care at all if he dies.

That's Garfiel's impression of Subaru at this moment. Garfiel's reaction of losing his voice and such, I think it would be good if you kept that in mind for the future.

When you see Subaru Natsuki acting and speaking this way, it feels like you can see a glimpse of an air where he'd be willing to pile up life after life for the sake of the best future, and it's a really heavy-hearted feeling, isn't it?

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


(MY TRUE FORM HAS APPEARED AT LAST! I AM THE AVATAR OF THE WITCH OF GREEEEEEEED)

:v:

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Sep 10, 2020

Wollawolla
Jan 15, 2007

Are you gonna smash my skull and breathe my blood-mist?


Raenir Salazar posted:

She seems surprised at Subaru's actions, was it confirmed this ep if it was Emilia who was taken over? My assumption then is its Emilia who was overcome by like, the Witch's Will or something but wasn't for whatever reason actually privvy to what Satella did to Subaru?

That's my interpretation. It's really the only thing that makes sense with the "I swear I'm going to save you." line as he looks into her weeping eyes. Either he's speaking to the "possessed" Emilia, or he's speaking out loud to himself as he stares at Emilia's likeness.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Ryuzu really wants to become Subaru's body pillow.

Raenir Salazar posted:

The Subaru gets consumed by Satella scene is interesting to me because shouldn't Satella know that Subaru can RBD? She seems surprised at Subaru's actions, was it confirmed this ep if it was Emilia who was taken over? My assumption then is its Emilia who was overcome by like, the Witch's Will or something but wasn't for whatever reason actually privvy to what Satella did to Subaru?
Yandere Satella certainly did not expect Subaru would prefer suicide to accepting her love.

Grouchio fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Sep 10, 2020

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S

In the RE:Zero prequel movie, isn't Emilia frozen inside a crystal until Puck finds her? Like, the same thing that Echinda was using for her immortality project?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.


Wollawolla posted:

That's my interpretation. It's really the only thing that makes sense with the "I swear I'm going to save you." line as he looks into her weeping eyes. Either he's speaking to the "possessed" Emilia, or he's speaking out loud to himself as he stares at Emilia's likeness.

Also notice that when Garfiel is listing everyone who's been swallowed up by the shadow, he specifically doesn't mention Emilia. And when Subaru mentions her a couple lines later (along with Otto), Garfiel doesn't saying anything.

macabresca
Jan 26, 2019

I WANNA HUG


Toalpaz posted:

I also didn't get the translation of those lil gals taunting subs too wrt garfield's lover


A big flaming stink posted:

i took that dialogue to mean that ryuzu was speaking the cover story that subaru was having a rendezvous with ram and that she wouldn't tell garf because it would upset him.

I'm watching Polish translation and there the translator interpreted it as Garfiel has control over clones => now Subaru also has the control over them => hope Garfiel won't be jealous. So the "lovers" here would be Garfiel, Ryuuzu and Subaru

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Given that Ryuuzu wasn't capable of inheriting Echidna's soul, I wonder if the purpose of the trials might be to find someone who is. It'd explain why Echidna set them up to begin with, and why Garfiel doesn't want to do them (finish them?)ónobody wants to get possessed.

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone





I thought the lover was Echidna since they mentioned that right after talk about him also taking the trial.

It's also makes more sense when you consider him getting more angry when he smells Echidna on Subaru.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


Nitrousoxide posted:

I thought the lover was Echidna since they mentioned that right after talk about him also taking the trial.

It's also makes more sense when you consider him getting more angry when he smells Echidna on Subaru.

I thought something like this too but subs doesn't really react to this appropriately.

That's true it could be the clones too.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

I'm getting a little more confused now. Did Garf smell anything off of Subaru? The impression I had initially was he smelled something but pretended to be friendly. Then someone in thread mentioned that he probably CAN'T smell anything and it was someone else (Ryuzu?) who told Garf. But maybe he smelled Echidna off of Subaru? I don't understand anymore!

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Raenir Salazar posted:

I'm getting a little more confused now. Did Garf smell anything off of Subaru? The impression I had initially was he smelled something but pretended to be friendly. Then someone in thread mentioned that he probably CAN'T smell anything and it was someone else (Ryuzu?) who told Garf. But maybe he smelled Echidna off of Subaru? I don't understand anymore!
Garfiel Was lying the whole time about the witches' smell. It's just an excuse to stop him for whatever reason. Otherwise he would've become hostile the moment Subaru left the tomb this episode. And considering that Garfiel once took the trial and (apparently) failed, he obtains deeeeep envy and distrust of Subaru every loop that Subaru mentions he passed the trial (like in the prison loop).

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Also, Re Zero S2 is now the most currently watched series on Netflix Japan.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Grouchio posted:

Garfiel Was lying the whole time about the witches' smell. It's just an excuse to stop him for whatever reason. Otherwise he would've become hostile the moment Subaru left the tomb this episode. And considering that Garfiel once took the trial and (apparently) failed, he obtains deeeeep envy and distrust of Subaru every loop that Subaru mentions he passed the trial (like in the prison loop).

Wait what, why do you say he was lying? He mentions the smell at the end of this episode and is obviously suspect of Subaru since he's keeping tabs on him after the trial. It seemed like his crying just threw him for a loop so he didn't do anything actively hostile. Is this coming from some source outside the anime?

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Ethiser posted:

Wait what, why do you say he was lying? He mentions the smell at the end of this episode and is obviously suspect of Subaru since he's keeping tabs on him after the trial. It seemed like his crying just threw him for a loop so he didn't do anything actively hostile. Is this coming from some source outside the anime?
If he actually had the ability to detect the witches' scent he would've gone hostile/suspicious the moment he got a whiff, regardless of the situation. Instead he acted all buddy buddy because it looked like Subaru bitched out of the trial like he once did.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Grouchio posted:

If he actually had the ability to detect the witches' scent he would've gone hostile/suspicious the moment he got a whiff, regardless of the situation. Instead he acted all buddy buddy because it looked like Subaru bitched out of the trial like he once did.

That's just not how I'm interpreting the situation since to me it did seem like he has always been suspicious of Subaru and continued to be so this entire episode.

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013



https://youtube.com/watch?v=25n-UsO-fJc

Tabletops
Jan 27, 2014

anime

I like how the satella scenes were basically the worst timeline confirmation.

Satella returns to the physical world - check

Emilia is a capable host -
Check

She's still incredibly powerful -
Check

She's still insane and beyond understanding -

Check



Re: garfiels actions.

I feel like a lot of this season has been about establishing that garfiel is unknowable. His actions are inconsistent to the point of being unpredictable even with a power that is essentially clairvoyance.
which is a significant thorn is Subarus side as he has consistently thrown off his machinations even when he tries his best to account for him. Now his main thrust of each attempt revolves around solving the giant orange cat in the room issue.

Tabletops fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Sep 11, 2020

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Regarding Garfiel, going by what has been shown, changes his assessment of Subaru based on the first post-Trial conversation - where Ryuzu shows up. On the first loop, Subaru doesn't mention his own taking of the Trial, and he hasn't died yet. He only continues to support Emilia's attempts, and by the end, Garfiel finally brings up "knowing" that Subaru has taken the Trial (after many chances to talk with Ryuzu along the way), and that Emilia is "facing the past." This is when he suggest Subaru take the Trial in Emilia's place. On the second loop, Subaru brings up taking the Trial and suggests taking it in Emilia's place; this gets Garfiel worked up and adamant that Subaru not finish it - but he doesn't get more hostile than that. On the THIRD loop, Subaru appears to try and play things out like the first loop (the montage is made up of scenes from the first loop - though there's one new cut where Ryuzu is giving a side-long glance and narrowing her eyes), but he's already died twice at this point so his miasma smell is stronger, as we know from the past. This is when Garfiel brings Subaru out to talk to Ryuzu Shima (one wearing white instead of Bilma's black), and it's after he brings up the idea of passing the Trial in Emilia's place THEN that Garfiel subdues Subaru... on Ryuzu's will, apparently. On the fourth loop, there's the whole Witch situation going on so there's no time to talk with Ryuzu, and Subaru learns about the clones. Which brings us to the current loop - they're a bit delayed in leaving the graveyard this time and have a chat (with no Ryuzu), and Garfiel shows no apprehension towards Subaru despite the fact that he's died four times now. After having his own private talk with Ryuzu, he learns that most of the clones are either gaurds or "Sanctuary's eyes" and that Garfiel has taken the Trial before. He only asks that she not tell Garfiel about him being an Apostle of Greed or that they've had that conversation, but Garfiel is still an Apostle, too. But there was still time for Ryuzu to talk with Garfiel at all - in the morning, he's mad at Subaru for smelling like the Witch, but doesn't bring up the Trial.

Given that most people don't seem to smell the Miasma (in Season 1, it's like... Beatrice, Rem, the mabeasts, and the Witch Cultists are the only ones to notably react to it - Betelgeuse wonders why the Witch's Love clings so heavily to him, and the first time Subaru wanders into the Cultists (before he meets 'Guese), they very noticeably leave him alone), it's a weird thing to accuse Subaru of without having a reason. Looking at the circumstantial evidence, it sure seems like GARFIEL can't smell the miasma, but with the timing of his mood changes, it seems that RYUZU can sense it and informs him of it out of Subaru's sight. Remember a Ryuzu encountered him before his checkpoint - on the first loop, his miasma would not have changed between that meeting and leaving after the Trial, but each subsequent loop, Subaru's miasma grows in potency, so it would be readily apparent to anyone who could both smell the miasma and compare him before and after he enters the tomb.

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Garfiel is truly a cat in that heís arbitrarily either a dick or your best friend.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Re: Garfield I don't think he's THAT unknowable. He acts differently each loop and that threw Subaru off, but only because Subaru had incomplete information as to what was different each time. Assuming, like the audience did, that it had to do with dying and gaining miasma. When in actuality it was because of Ryuzu. Once the pieces fell into place I think Subaru has a handle on it now.

A big flaming stink
Apr 26, 2010





wait there are multiple ryuzu? not like, mindless clone ryuzus but multiple ryuzus with their own personality?

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

A big flaming stink posted:

wait there are multiple ryuzu? not like, mindless clone ryuzus but multiple ryuzus with their own personality?

I think this episode implied that they probably don't start with personalities but with time can grow their own. The oldest Ryuzu's are basically people, while the youngest are basically like worker ants. Autonomous and "alive" by the strictest possible definition and able to perform simple tasks, but not much else.

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Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011



Also thereís kind of a weird implication that as time continues to pass they could end up with infinite Ryuzuís since they seem to just continue to automatically be produced regardless of inputs and donít die of natural causes.

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