Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

User0015 posted:

I literally don't remember puck telling subaru he damaged his gate, or that he needed to rest for two months.

Well it was Felix who told him that, so yeah you would not remember Puck telling that to Subaru.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



I think User0015 spent a little bit too much time in the whale mist

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Also Ram not knowing who Rem was happened episodes later at the Sanctuary.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Nitrousoxide posted:

I think User0015 spent a little bit too much time in the whale mist

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013

User0015 posted:

I honestly forgot any of that even happened. I don't remember what the *point* of that fight was. Was there any point to it at all?

The cult had some method of controlling the whale so they were using it to blockade the highway and isolate Emilia while Petelguese did his thing. From the perspective of the witch cultists it was revenge for killing their pet the White Whale.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Nitrousoxide posted:

I think User0015 spent a little bit too much time in the whale mist

Lol I empathise with that feeling a lot of wondering what the hell is going on in the story. I'll remember more details like who that Greed dude was, but I also can't keep some major things straight like "why are we even at the sanctuary to begin with??"

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

Nitrousoxide posted:

I think User0015 spent a little bit too much time in the whale mist

User0015
Nov 24, 2007

Please don't talk about your sexuality unless it serves the ~narrative~!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well it was Felix who told him that, so yeah you would not remember Puck telling that to Subaru.

I'm less upset about my obvious serious memory loss than I am at forgetting about Felix being the one to tell Subaru that. But I was right, we knew about it as an audience before that fight.

Bifauxnen posted:

Lol I empathise with that feeling a lot of wondering what the hell is going on in the story. I'll remember more details like who that Greed dude was, but I also can't keep some major things straight like "why are we even at the sanctuary to begin with??"

loving thank you. I am very clear on the events inside the sanctuary (as much as can be expected...), but I'll be damned if I remember why they went there in the first place. Like, what their goal was when travelling to it, and then discovering they are now trapped inside (except subaru obviously).

In fact, I think I can pinpoint my complete loss of plot starting with the first meeting with the witch. It was downhill, sure, but I entered free-fall afterwards.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice
I feel like, watching a show week to week, unless you're like 100% hardcore into the show, discussion surrounding it, and scrutinizing every detail like Grouchio you're not going to remember everything and that's okay!

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
I don't think it's okay.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012
TBH, I can't remember why they ended up in the Sanctuary either. I think Roswaal and/or Frederica suggested it was a good idea for some reason, but didn't mention it keeping half-humans in?

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



They sent the villagers they saved to the sanctuary after stopping their slaughter. After discovering they couldn't leave they went to investigate, but found themselves trapped as well.

This was all part of Roswaal's plan to get Emilia trapped there according to his book in order to force Subaru to become dispondant at being unable to save her and accept Echidna's deal, allowing her to escape death.

Unless I'm remembering wrong.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009

Silver2195 posted:

TBH, I can't remember why they ended up in the Sanctuary either. I think Roswaal and/or Frederica suggested it was a good idea for some reason, but didn't mention it keeping half-humans in?

Officially it was to get the villagers to safety, but it was actually Roswaal's plan to break Subaru and follow the gospel.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

This should help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvGlqhxCvLc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwBuPtHtg80

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Nitrousoxide posted:

They sent the villagers they saved to the sanctuary after stopping their slaughter. After discovering they couldn't leave they went to investigate, but found themselves trapped as well.

This was all part of Roswaal's plan to get Emilia trapped there according to his book in order to force Subaru to become dispondant at being unable to save her and accept Echidna's deal, allowing her to escape death.

Unless I'm remembering wrong.

OK, that makes sense.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Also Roswaal appears to have manipulated the events of season 1

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009

MonsterEnvy posted:

Also Roswaal appears to have manipulated the events of season 1

He pretty much confessed this to Subaru.

It was I, Roswaal!

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Lurking Haro posted:

It was I, Roswaal!

Back when I first started watching this show it was driving me nuts knowing I knew Roswaal's voice, but not being able to place it straight away. His lilting speech patterns here threw me off a bit.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Honestly until the mean post right now I did not realize Roswaal was Koyasu

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand]🧍 I require only that you [kneel]🧎

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Raenir Salazar posted:

I feel like, watching a show week to week, unless you're like 100% hardcore into the show, discussion surrounding it, and scrutinizing every detail like Grouchio you're not going to remember everything and that's okay!

I'm not saying it's wrong, but I can't fathom enjoying a show like this that's 40% mystery 40% character development and very heavy on continuity, when you can't keep the basics of the casts' goals and motivations straight in your head.

GloriousDemon
May 1, 2009
drat I didn't think about the implications of Betelgeuse's longevity compared to elves and what it means for Subaru being the inheritor of his power till I chewed on it awhile.

Provided he he breaks these death loops, he's going to outlive everyone by a lot, even Emilia but especially Emilia.

Sazabi
Feb 15, 2014

A-MA-ZON!!

GloriousDemon posted:

drat I didn't think about the implications of Betelgeuse's longevity compared to elves and what it means for Subaru being the inheritor of his power till I chewed on it awhile.

Provided he he breaks these death loops, he's going to outlive everyone by a lot, even Emilia but especially Emilia.

I thought the authority was the special powers they got and thus the only thing that transfers? Or does immortality go hand and hand with unseen hand and the others?

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


I don't think we know anything regarding the source of Geuse's longevity. It could come from the authority, sure, but this world is filled with supernatural blessings, curses, artifacts, latent abilities and spells. For the time being it could come anything.

e: man, him perma bricking his gate just to deliver a single uppercut is kinda wonky. It's also 100% something he'd do, tho.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!

Mindblast posted:

I don't think we know anything regarding the source of Geuse's longevity. It could come from the authority, sure, but this world is filled with supernatural blessings, curses, artifacts, latent abilities and spells. For the time being it could come anything.

e: man, him perma bricking his gate just to deliver a single uppercut is kinda wonky. It's also 100% something he'd do, tho.

Who needs lovely shadow magic when you have unseen hands? :unsmigghh:

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013

Now for subaru to squat fly like Betelgeuse

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

One advantage to the WN is that it makes absolute sure you know what's going on through extensive repetition and internal narration. If you're supposed to know who someone is (or not know who they are), Subaru's internal narration will let you know.

Kazy posted:

Did anyone else expect Subaru to suddenly eat it at the end there? :v:

When reading the WN 4th arc there are a bunch of times where I expected Subaru to die but he just kept going. I think there were at least 5 times where I was totally sure a loop was about to end and then it proceeded to continue for many more chapters.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005

Clapping Larry
lol at Pandora basically have the same power as Featherine from Umineko.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Nate RFB posted:

lol at Pandora basically have the same power as Featherine from Umineko.
She is a tough bitch to deal with, isn't she?

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
Lotta interesting implications this episode.

For old Sanctuary, we see Beatrice is older than the Ryuzus, Echidna was in fact just living normally, and the earlier generation Roswaal... didn't have the heterochromia, I suppose.
For Geuse, Regulus straight up calls him a spirit. So that's probably your mystery solved of why he's so long-lived and how he was able to body-hop rolled up right there - he's wasn't mortal even before he took in the Sloth Witch Factor. He was apparently doing whatever he'd been doing for Flugel - a name we haven't heard in a while, being the guy who planted that giant tree that got blown up to help defeat the White Whale.
For the other new arrival, Pandora being the Witch of Vanity means we've likely got more sins in play. Vanagloria (also known as Vainglory or Vanity) and Tristitia (sorrow, melancholy, etc.) were two of the original "evil thoughts" before they were basically rolled into Pride and Sloth respectively by Pope Gregory I (who also, curiously, made Envy its own category at the same time), but given that we've already met the Witch of Pride, I'm sure it's a deliberate delineation here.

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013

I uh This Pandora girl is unstoppable. She seems to be immortal, ignores literally being obliterated by Regulus and can just seem to straight up rewrite reality by just saying it. That does not seem to be something even Subaru can beat. I doubt Reinhardt can even oppose something as op as "I can do whatever I want."

In regards to Regulus I don't know if Re:Zero's Lugnica has an afterlife but I'd like to think that after Betelgeuse was killed by Subaru, he got to be with Fortuna. I really, really don't see how Fortuna can somehow live against someone who basically seems like the avatar of source code cheating

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011

Annointed posted:

I uh This Pandora girl is unstoppable. She seems to be immortal, ignores literally being obliterated by Regulus and can just seem to straight up rewrite reality by just saying it. That does not seem to be something even Subaru can beat. I doubt Reinhardt can even oppose something as op as "I can do whatever I want."
I think she's got some unstated limits we're not privy to. I mean, I assume she wouldn't even need someone to bring her the means to lift the seal if she could just reality warp it into being. But whatever limitations she may have, she's at least ridiculously difficult if not impossible to defeat outright.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012

Hogama posted:

I think she's got some unstated limits we're not privy to. I mean, I assume she wouldn't even need someone to bring her the means to lift the seal if she could just reality warp it into being. But whatever limitations she may have, she's at least ridiculously difficult if not impossible to defeat outright.

It seems like her power is specifically selectively undoing other people's actions. She probably can't just create things out of whole cloth.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

ドーナツダメ!

Hogama posted:

For Geuse, Regulus straight up calls him a spirit. So that's probably your mystery solved of why he's so long-lived and how he was able to body-hop rolled up right there - he's wasn't mortal even before he took in the Sloth Witch Factor. He was apparently doing whatever he'd been doing for Flugel - a name we haven't heard in a while, being the guy who planted that giant tree that got blown up to help defeat the White Whale.

Then again, it makes me wonder how Subaru was able to deal the final blow by basically just lighting him on fire if he's really just a spirit.

Hogama posted:

For the other new arrival, Pandora being the Witch of Vanity means we've likely got more sins in play. Vanagloria (also known as Vainglory or Vanity) and Tristitia (sorrow, melancholy, etc.) were two of the original "evil thoughts" before they were basically rolled into Pride and Sloth respectively by Pope Gregory I (who also, curiously, made Envy its own category at the same time), but given that we've already met the Witch of Pride, I'm sure it's a deliberate delineation here.

I was not aware of this. That's pretty interesting. And while it's pretty obvious Pandora is on an actual "witch-tier" power level, I still wonder about how much the title gets thrown around when you have Emilia calling herself the Witch of Ice (or whatever) to Echidna a couple episodes ago.

Edit: Something interesting about the Pandora myth, too. In the original story featuring an unnamed version of her, Theogony, Hesiod originally describes her as being adorned in a silver gown and a silver crown by Athena before she's let loose on the world of men. :v:

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 3, 2021

Annointed
Mar 2, 2013

Silver2195 posted:

It seems like her power is specifically selectively undoing other people's actions. She probably can't just create things out of whole cloth.

I might need to rewatch but then how was she able to put Regulus into a hole in the ground? I don't recall a hole being there.

AlternateNu posted:

Then again, it makes me wonder how Subaru was able to deal the final blow by basically just lighting him on fire if he's really just a spirit.

Magic Spirit Fire :v:

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

"According to Wikipedia" there is a black hole that emits zionist hawking radiation where my brain should have been

I really should just shut the fuck up and stop posting forever
College Slice
Great episode.

Episode spoilers:
Regarding how overpowered Pandora (or possibly Corneas) are, I think for the most part Subaru won't be dealing with them head to head, but probably I imagine he uses hits wits and alliance of allies instead. Although I imagine Pandora isn't an immediate foe, but probably more like a final boss after dealing with the Witch of Envy.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011

AlternateNu posted:

Then again, it makes me wonder how Subaru was able to deal the final blow by basically just lighting him on fire if he's really just a spirit.
Thinking on this, I think part of the whole issue is that (including Frozen Bond points - we've already had a scene from it in the show at this point) we don't know much of the metaphysics of spirits in this world. The lesser spirits seem to be all firefly-esque motes, but waaaaaay back in the first episode, Emilia said they can eventually gain enough power, experience, and self-awareness to become full-fledged spirits like Puck. Even then, though, the examples we've seen of greater spirits don't really seem to conform to a particular set of rules. Puck is a size-changing feline that's also the Beast of the End who spends a lot of time asleep and incorporeal in crystals. Beatrice has had the form of a young girl for at least as long as we've known she's existed and there's never been any indication that she can change shape or go incorporeal (except by dying). Melakuera, the former Great Spirit of Fire, generally didn't have a corporeal body and favored manifestations of a fiery horse, but did possess a human (the other minor antagonist of the story) for a time. Assuming Geuse is indeed a spirit still doesn't really define how he "works." So far we can only go by what we see: he's able to move his consciousness between bodies and assume host control, and he can keep a body animated past what would normally be fatal injuries (when he's forced back into his original body to chase Subaru and Otto at the end). We never see him NOT in a body though, and he doesn't seem able to just take over anybody (even if Subaru is susceptible) - so running with this, he might be a Spirit that requires a host to survive. When he gets burned and crushed all his Fingers are already disposed of and the only apparent nearby suitable host is Subaru who's just had Satella personally reject Geuse, so in the end it might be that he died because his host was completely ruined and he didn't have a spare to shunt off to. That does bring up the question of how he got his FIRST host body in this scenario, but maybe that's related to why he owes Flugel a debt and/or maybe he was once a lesser spirit that became a spirit after possessing a body to begin with?

Admittedly, back when Puck killed him in one of the failed timelines, Geuse was outraged that "a mere spirit" was killing him and Puck was mad about him being a mere human that's only lived a few decades , so it's not like my speculation is airtight. Maybe in his madness he doesn't see himself as a spirit anymore? I dunno.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009

Hogama posted:

For Geuse, Regulus straight up calls him a spirit.

This actually explains the eye reflection thing with both Puck and Geuse. Emilia is just that attuned to spirits and automatically charms them.
I wonder if the spirits guiding her to the seal are yet again actually a higher spirit like Melakuera.

Zetsubou-san
Jan 28, 2015

Cruel Bifaunidas demanded that you [stand]🧍 I require only that you [kneel]🧎
what a shocking twist!

there's an actual OP!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Zetsubou-san posted:

what a shocking twist!

there's an actual OP!
A very spoilery OP mind you!

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply