RE:Zero Season 2: Pride Comes Before the Fall

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ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

I remember whiplashing on this show because I really liked the first half and really hated the second half. I really want to see where this story goes though. It's got some really solid hooks.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2019 05:29

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 13:08

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

Conspiratiorist posted:

Why did you hate the second half?

I don't really remember, I've pretty much forgotten all of the second half. I vaguely remember something about there not being any progress but I'd have to rewatch the show to refresh myself on it.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2019 05:42

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

I ve started rewatching the first season to remind myself what even happened in this show.

The biggest thing I forgot is how well put together this show is. They really sell Subaru's moment to moment experiences down to some surprisingly granular detail. The audio cues, visuals, and editing do a lot of work to make that happen but make it seem easy.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2019 14:00

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

So I just finished rewatching season 1 and I'm not entirely sure why I hated the second half so much. It definitely felt drawn out (which is heightened on a weekly schedule) and the talking about running away episode was still too much talking, but overall I enjoyed it a whole lot more than my first viewing. I also feel like I understood what they were going for better and could empathize with it. Unfortunately what they were going for was breaking Subaru down to blood, flesh, and poop, then building him back up again. I can totally understand if that exhausted and disgusted some viewers and might have been what bothered me so much on the initial viewing.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2019 03:12

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

Conspiratiorist posted:

Because it addressed nothing and solved nothing, and at this point they've been living together for IIRC almost two months now? Beyond being indebted to his actions she's grown quite fond of him, so Subaru isn't just some stranger, either. He's legitimately become one of the few people she considers a friend, so that's simply not her perspective.

Emilia's perspective is that there's this guy who really likes her, who in the short time they've known each other has a done a lot for her, and who is open about himself in the general but clearly has some complicated circumstances behind him because he's far from home with nowhere to go but the space her social circle opened up for him, and has evidently also suffered a lot, which he tries to hide behind a bright personality. And she grew to like him back - almost immediately - but from the beginning it troubled her just how far he seems willing to go for her, and after his latest round of seemingly reckless behavior she can't overlook it anymore and so she has to ask what prompted it.

And he admits he was just being reckless. Acting out of impulse, due to his feelings for her.

So she pushes: why does he feel this way about her? Why is he so quick to endanger himself so much for her? She's trying to understand, so she'll have him explain his circumstances and then maybe she'll get what are these feelings he has for her and where they're coming from... and the mistakes start here: she gets upset when the answers aren't forthcoming, and angry even at the notion the affection really isn't for her because he doesn't really understand her. Of course, this is important to Emilia since she's always been treated differently because of what she is, and was hoping to find in Subaru someone who'd see her without bias.

But... what does Subaru actually know about Emilia? What does the audience know? About her past, about her goals? This is what I meant earlier with keeping her cards close, not playing ball - she's never given him anything to work with in that regard. Emilia is a smart and empathetic girl, so she can tell he's struggling to answer her, therefore when after demanding he explain himself she starts chastising him for not understanding the real her, that's a turn that ends up being both hypocritical and completely unfair.

Now, when Subaru snaps back and rudely demands that because she's indebted to him she should just accept it? Absolutely out of line, but it's ultimately Emilia who exercises her power and ends the discussion.

She declares that they'll put an end to those debts then, and rationalizing that by cutting him off then he'll be safer, free of the burden of trying to help her. He won't have to worry about her, and she won't have to worry about him. But again, that failed to address anything. That was her getting angry and giving herself an out.

In the end, tempers flared, they both got hurt and said things they shouldn't have and that they regretted immediately, and both are aware they should've known better. And it's something that ends up making true reconciliation hard even without all the horrorshow bullshit, because they both feel they were the ones who hosed up, but nevertheless can't stop feeling like they were somewhat justified anyway.

I don't much care for your "looks like you're a sexist" reading into my analysis.

You might not have noticed since Emilia is normally very level headed and caring, but during their exchange Subaru inadvertently hit on three nerves related to deep-seated insecurities of hers, and her reaction to that was anger, and that anger colored the responses that resulted in the discussion ending the way it did.

And you know what? As an outside observer, knowing what I do? I don't really blame her for reacting the way she did, and I actually think it'd be unfair to expect from Emilia the level of emotional maturity that'd have led to that discussion ending much more positively but, objectively speaking, just as Subaru could've done better by just shutting his drat mouth instead of trying to guilt trip a person who genuinely cares for him, Emilia could've also done better by either being more patient or being more honest about what was going on.

Oh boy. You might want to take a step back. You're falling into exactly the same mindset that Subaru did and that Emilia specifically calls out at the end of their argument: you are creating a fictitious version of Emilia from the perspective of Subaru and arguing Subaru's side with that image in mind.

From Emilia's perspective, Subaru came into her life as a stranger who helped save her life for a reason that, as far as she knows, is entirely imagined. She helps him out in return by setting him up with her benefactor after he nearly dies in the processs, and while she certainly appreciates what he did for her she does not see them as friends at this point. But Subaru, on the other hand, is completely convinced of their friendship. Then, from Emilia's perspective, Subaru suddenly takes on pack of mabeasts threatening the nearby village and nearly dies once again. And while she certainly appreciates his heroism, once again she can't help but be cautious because there are so many unknowns regarding this stranger who's suddenly obsessed with her. That sense is exacerbated by the following events when Subaru becomes openly and fanatically obsessed with keeping her safe by her side to the point that he won't listen to anything she has to say and has started lashing out like a rabid dog at anyone who belittles her. It's at this point that she realizes that Subaru has deified her in his mind and that objectified version is what's driving his fanaticism. That coupled with his "fight" against Julius is what prompts her argument with him.

Personally, I think Emilia's handling of the argument is about as mature as anyone could have managed. Subaru was too broken to listen to reason and Emilia did not have the time or ability to talk him out of his sociopathic state. She politely but definitively backed out of their relationship and walked away.

It's certainly hard to blame Subaru for his broken state, but it does not excuse the fact that he turned into a peak Nice Guy for a while as a result. The entire second half was thematically about him learning to overcome his traumas and take back control of his mental state in preparation for him to apologize to Emilia for his mistakes. And he certainly comes around over the course of that arc. But there is no valid defense for Subaru's actions post arc 2, only excuses and explanations for how he got there.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2019 17:35

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

Not an uncommon one though. There's always been copycats whenever a classic comes out, and sometimes they turn into permanent genres. It all depends on how strong the foundation is, and unfortunately isekai as a genre has a very strong foundation that highly susceptible to lazy clones. Re:Zero succeeds by not just subverting 1 element of isekai, as your average isekai does, but all of them.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2019 17:17

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

I agree that this show sometimes leans into being psychological torture. But straight up torture porn is more Saw/Hostel territory, a far cry from Re:Zero.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 05:09

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

Is there a good summary of Muv-luv and Alternative out there? I remember trying to play Muv-luv but got burnt out with how freaking long it is. Never even made it to Alternative, where the supposedly good stuff is.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 14:33

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

I think I made it maybe 5 or 6 hours into the first game? It's been a while since I tried playing it.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 18:39

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

I'm so confused

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 21:40

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 13:08

ViggyNash: Oct 9, 2012

So was there any point to having an entire game of generic high school romcom hijinx before all the aliens and apocalypse? Any reason a condensed version it couldn't have been the first third of Unlimited or something?It just seems really weird that the bait-n-switch came after an entire multi-dozen hour game. And also a waste of time

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 15:05

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