Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

^^^ yeah it's seriously great. probably the best "anime-ish anime" story content I've ever read/watched. Not sure how else to describe it; like Re:Zero has some "dumb anime stuff" (I really dislike the way Re:Zero deals with romance, but that's probably the only thing I dislike about it) but it also has easily the most exciting plot with a fun/interesting cast of any other similar thing. There are just so many memorable things that happen in this arc, and I really hope the anime does it justice.

Ah, just noticed there's already a thread for season 2. The arc (arc 4 is very long and will likely be this entire season judging from the image in the OP) is really good y'all. Blows everything from the first 3 arcs out of the water IMO. It's also neat to see some of the character designs in the image. Most look about how I pictured them when reading it.

Arc 4 is the first one that really kinda "opens up" the setting, and a bunch of really important stuff happens during it. One of the twists is really great and makes a lot of sense in retrospect.

edit: Also nice to see (vague WN spoilers just indicating that certain characters show up)Subaru's parents make an appearance in the image. That part of the arc was really sweet, and it's nice to actually see *a protagonist's parents* factor into their characterization.

edit2: Btw, who is the girl in front of Otto and behind Garfiel (the one holding the dog)? I recognize everyone else in this image, but not her.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 24, 2019

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

One thing I'm kinda curious about is whether the anime will be able to faithfully reproduce the sense of "familiarity" (stemming from repetition) you get with Subaru's situation. The repetition and sheer length of the arc really helps to sort of get you into Subaru's mindset and understand why he feels the way he does, etc. If this is going to be a full ~24 episode season, I could see them pulling it off. A 12-13 episode season might be a bit rushed. The anime version of arc 3 did a decent job with this, after all, though from what I understand it still cut some "lives" from the WN version of the arc.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

One thing that comes to mind during the 4th arc is that (very minor spoilers about characters that are mentioned in the arc) I feel super bad for Subaru's parents. They're so good and he was an only child, so it's really sad that from their perspective he presumably just got killed by a truck (or disappeared, forget if he explicitly died before being transported). Normally that aspect is completely ignored in isekai series, so it makes a surprisingly big impact when the story actually bothers to introduce you to the protagonist's parents and show how much they care for the protagonist and how much he was influenced by them.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Ah okay, so he just disappeared, lol. That's arguably even worse, since now he'll have just randomly gone missing from the perspective of his family, etc.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Raxivace posted:

I wouldn't say I hated the second half but otherwise this is basically where I'm at with Re:Zero.

For me the issue that Subaru is a significantly less interesting character when he's confidently succeeding with his plans. When they beat the whale in particular is where my interest really started to drop.

I actually kinda agree with this despite really liking Re:Zero in general; the end-ish parts of Season 1 were my least favorite. You will be pleasantly surprised with the next season with regards to this; the story really goes the extra mile in terms of making his situation very difficult to resolve.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

edit: wrong thread

vvv that was fast, I noticed I posted in the wrong thread like 2 seconds after making the post lol

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 30, 2019

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Furnaceface posted:

Rem might be one of my favourite side characters ever.

My apparently controversial Re:Zero opinion is that Rem is not actually that interesting following the conclusion of her brief-ish character arc and (end of arc 3/beginning of arc 4 post-anime spoilers) I was relieved that she was benched for a long time as a character by Plot. Beyond the latter parts of Arc 3 there isn't really any place for her character to go and she basically just exists as "girl who loves Subaru really hard." I also generally strongly dislike the whole anime/manga trope of a love interest being totally cool with the protagonist being in love with someone else and having such a "pure" love that they're fine just sort of existing in their close social circle for eternity. The absolute worst and most inexcusable part was when Subaru mentioned taking on Rem as a second wife if Emilia is okay with it - like I mentioned before, romance is the only aspect of this series I actually dislike, and I'm hoping for the extremely unlikely possibility that Emilia at some point tells him to gently caress off with that.

edit: Even the stuff Conspiratiorist mentioned in his post above this one is almost all just tied into Subaru being an interesting character, with Rem just sort of existing as a reminder that he had a positive impact on someone.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 30, 2019

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

madmac posted:

I mean, yeah after Rem's character arc largely finishes in the third Act there isn't that much more for her to do but I disagree that she isn't a fun and interesting character up to that point. For being the secondary love interest who doesn't even get introduced until the second arc, especially, she certainly leaves an impression. I pretty much hate Rem's archtype and I still like her quite a bit as a character.

Though now I do kinda want to stick up a bit for Ram being unappreciated as a character and hopefully Season 2 will change that a smidge.

Anyway, I'd almost given up on a Season 2 so I'm pretty excited, especially because the next arc is easily my favorite, and I daresay that's the consensus opinion.

Ram gains points simply for being "an important-ish female character who has no inkling of romantic interest towards Subaru."

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

EponymousMrYar posted:

And I still found it interesting in how he handled certain parts of his success, especially the small details (him using Emilia's Cloak of Non-distinctness to talk with her so he could tell her what he needed to tell her and keep his second promise with her) since being able to pay attention to detail is one of the neater aspects of his revival/time loop power.

At one point (I forget if it's in Arcs 1-3 or 4, but it's not a spoiler either way) someone (I think Ram?) comments on how Subaru is utterly unremarkable in every way, but seems to somehow always be at the right place at the right time. It's kind of interesting thinking about how the events of the series must look from the perspective of the other characters who only see an uninterrupted chain of Subaru's "successful" loops. To them, Subaru must just be this dude who goes through bizarre mood swings and is randomly going places and saying things in ways that somehow result in avoiding bad outcomes.

edit: One other thing that comes to mind about Subaru's particular time travel gimmick is that it's probably for the best that he can't tell other people, because it would be immensely disturbing to find out that if this guy dies your current existence would effectively be erased and everything you did for the past couple days (or whatever) rendered irrelevant. Is the "you" from when Subaru goes back in time the same "you" as the current one? Who knows!

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Mar 31, 2019

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Conspiratiorist posted:

Rem isn't like that, though. She's head over heels for Subaru because he's this mysterious, quirky stranger who came out of nowhere, and despite being a weakling, through heroic determination and saying the right words not only saved her life, but also managed to break through her shell and allowed her to finally start sorting out her traumatic life issues.

And she knows there's another girl he likes - he won't shut up about it - so what does she do? She mimics him and voices her affection for him just as he does for Emilia, doing her best to grab his attention. And Subaru notices this, but dismisses it by reasoning she's just going through a hero worship phase... until she clearly confesses her feelings for him when he needs to understand just how much he means to her.

He rejects her. Specifically, he rejects her because she told him to follow his heart rather than elope with her just because she was available. Because she'd love that, but that's not the point.

And this is heartbreaking for her, but she still loves him, and still wants to support him, so she doesn't act any different over it. Why would she? The only thing that's changed is they now know clearly and without pretenses where they each stand, deepening their bond. He's still her hero.

But most importantly is that even after being clearly rejected, she hasn't given up. Rem doesn't accept being out of the running. Despite the situation they're in, and the short time they have available, Rem insists on showing that she's interested in him in a more than platonic way (to Subaru's awkward surprise), and goes so far as to feign she's dying to force a confession out of him. The entire thing with the polygamy option? That was Rem grabbing him by the balls. There was nothing pure about that.

Rem gives her 100%, truly.

And later, after Emilia and Subaru formally become an item, she's a thorn on her side - Subaru is very clearly in love with Rem as well and there's no way for Emilia to compete with her.

By "pure" I mean the sort of thing where the character is basically willing to (as is made explicit in this case) literally be a second wife. And this is really as much of a problem with Subaru as it is a problem with Rem; it wouldn't really be an issue if Subaru just changed his mind and stop pursuing Emilia, but it is very obvious that Emilia is still the "main love interest."

I also just generally don't really like romances where the girl is unconditionally supportive (this doesn't mean that she doesn't ever disagree with Subaru, but rather that her #1 priority is always doing what she believes to be the best thing for him) and doesn't really seem to have any of their own independent goals unconnected to the protagonist (or have any interesting/dynamic relationships with characters other than the protagonist). While there's a plot reason for this being the case with Rem, it doesn't really stop it from not being that enjoyable. This dynamic is kinda reversed with Subaru/Emilia, where Subaru is fully committed to helping Emilia achieve her goals, and while Emilia certainly has her own issues as a love interest, she at least has her own fairly complex circumstances that she's navigating independent of Subaru's involvement.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

I wonder if Subaru is ever going to have the sense to attach some sort of bomb to his head or something so he can just peace out whenever an inevitable painful death is in the works.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

ViggyNash posted:

It's certainly hard to blame Subaru for his broken state, but it does not excuse the fact that he turned into a peak Nice Guy for a while as a result. The entire second half was thematically about him learning to overcome his traumas and take back control of his mental state in preparation for him to apologize to Emilia for his mistakes. And he certainly comes around over the course of that arc. But there is no valid defense for Subaru's actions post arc 2, only excuses and explanations for how he got there.

There are also other reasons further elaborated in future content that make Conspiratiorist's evaluation of Emilia in this situation even less accurate, and IIRC he's one of the people who's read ahead?

But yeah, if anything Emilia is considerably nicer than you'd expect given her extremely bizarre perception of Subaru (likely at least partially due to her own poor self-esteem). She's only seeing the successful timelines, so she's not actually witnessing the excuse for his suffering and mental state (for the most part, though some things like getting stabbed or mauled by the mabeasts still end up in the "main timeline"). From her perspective Subaru is just very emotionally volatile and arbitrarily invested in her. Others are completely reasonable when they wonder if Subaru has ill intentions in Arc 2.

Only vaguely related, but I think part of why Re:Zero's romances don't do much for me is that both the love interests are in a position of emotional vulnerability and in need of "saving" to at least some extent. I've never found that particular form of romance very compelling, since it tends to lead to a dynamic between the protagonist and love interest that I don't really like. While Re:Zero does have this go both ways a bit with Rem (in that Subaru saves Rem and Rem also saves Subaru in turn), it's still a situation where Rem is very much hyperfocused on supporting Subaru (while Subaru still has a variety of goals unrelated to Rem). This is actually why I prefer Emilia to Rem; she has her own stuff going on even before Subaru's involvement. Though even then I'm not a fan of Subaru's romance with her (for several reasons, with one particularly big one standing out).

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Conspiratiorist posted:

It's the opposite: reading the official material up to vol. 9 (when it surpasses the anime) and then further ahead when the Subaru/Emilia relationship actually becomes a story focus, made go back and look at their interactions throughout the story and try to recontextualize them, their fight in particular. Turns out it was all laid out there from the beginning, because of course it was. Re:Zero.

I mean, my initial reading of the events was that Subaru hosed up (with the understanding of why he'd react the way he did, but it was still wrong) and that was that. Emilia was just really sad but nevertheless handling the situation with a level-head. But then looking at it more carefully made me go "Oh... oh! So that's what's actually going on. Oh, this! Yeah, this is the moment she gets pissed."

It was mentioned earlier that the story places great emphasis on getting immersed in Subaru's perspective, and the fight works as a wake-up call for both him and the audience to get out of his head and start understanding other characters as people with their own goals and perspectives. This is true; the story arc is thematically built around it.

But wait, so why is Emilia then taken at face value here? The narrative tricks you by having her deliver a brutal takedown then immediately exit the stage, and distracting you with Subaru's self-loathing as the reminding impression of the exchange.

I'm pretty sure you're missing the thing I was intending to allude to, but I don't want even indirectly hint at future content in this thread (and you don't have PMs).

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Gonna copy The Hobbit, only with changed names and alt-Bilbo is a reincarnated NEET from Tokyo.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

I remember that it always bugged me how they didn't just use those WMDs, even if they rendered the land incapable of supporting life afterwards. Like, it shouldn't be a big deal just to render individual ~50-100 mile radius areas uninhabitable (and there shouldn't be a need to cover more than the hives and their underground tunnels) in exchange for wiping out the alien invasion when the alternative is massive offensives with low chances of victory that involve sacrificing millions of lives anyways. IIRC there was some other kinda contrived excuse for not using them, but I remember being unimpressed with how it factored into the pros/cons analysis of the situation.

My controversial Muv-Luv opinion is that Unlimited is better than Alternative overall, and that Alternative's best part is its first half. After that it becomes a bit too predictable (though the twist where it was revealed that the BETA purposefully let the Yokohama hive be controlled was good). Unlimited does some kinda neat stuff with having all the big stuff happening unseen in the background.

I also wish the game(s) had better characters. None of the main characters (except possibly the protagonist) are particularly interesting (as opposed to the setting, which is pretty cool, and a pretty good side cast). This + my opinion about the second half of Alternative is why my opinion of the game(s) isn't as high as a lot of other peoples', but they're still extremely entertaining in a "book you have trouble putting down" sort of way.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Conspiratiorist posted:

You mean the G-Bombs?

They operated on poorly understood principles, so scientists across the world just didn't know what the long term effects would be at all. You know, like how the Manhattan project scientists were afraid of the potential of nuclear weapons setting the atmosphere on fire? Well, the immediate effects of G-Bombs were fairly obvious, but what if it wasn't just that, and it wasn't localized? And, because of the potential of the BETA developing countermeasures, once they started using them they had to take out all hives within weeks. No time to take it slow.

And as it turns out, concerns for unexpected effects were validated following Operation Babylon as shown in The Day After:



The mass use of 5th-dimensional effect bombs shift the planet's center of gravity, pushing large regions of the world out of the habitable zone of Earth's atmosphere, and prompting megatsunamis that blast through and eventually submerge Eurasia, with the displaced oceans leaving behind vast salt flats.

Gravity anomalies cut off access to space. Satellite telecommunications are lost, and a powerful Dellinger effect makes even ground-based radio spotty and of limited range. Surviving orbital forces can do little more than powerlessly look down at the devastated planet while their supplies dwindle.

The world's only surviving powers, the American-Japanese Alliance and the French-Canadian alliance, immediately go to war over the limited resources and habitable territory, and America's perceived responsibility for the catastrophe.

And worst of all, some BETA are later confirmed to have survived, and with all previously-known hives now inaccessible underwater, humanity has forever lost any chance of defeating them.


Yeah, but given what they knew that was a worthwhile roll of the dice. It was basically a choice between "thing with known tiny chance of success" vs "thing with low-ish chance of saving a minority of the population (the ships)" vs "thing with no knowledge of long-term effects."

The first is only the right choice in hindsight knowing it would succeed and the latter would fail.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 24, 2019

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Conspiratiorist posted:

Thing is that's not quite the calculus - nations were already willing to be very environmentally unfriendly that with the deployment of heavy metal clouds as part of bombardment doctrines, depleted uranium rounds as standard vehicle armaments, and use nuclear weapons for area denial, so while the desire of one day returning to their homelands is something that's posited by Captain Isumi as a reason, Takeru himself ponders on how these other things are okay but G-Bombs aren't.

Because it's something the story lampshades, then the truth lies in the subtext of the answer given by the person that's highest on the pecking order: Yuuko says they don't know what the consequences will be. Since it's her that's saying it, what that means is that based on the understanding of the scientific community (and consequently political/military higher-ups), the ramifications could be catastrophic - enough that for Yuuko, a person who regularly pushes the odds with the fate of mankind at stake, Alternative V just wasn't a dice worth rolling. In fact, something she desperately opposed.

And remember that the evacuation fleet is an addendum to the overall plan, a concession from the US to convince other nations play along, which reinforces that the UN Security Council knew the G-Bombs could end up causing apocalyptic ecological damage. Why else have planetary evacuation as a pre-condition for launching the operation? There were real, monumental fears at play here, and like so many things in Muv-Luv, these were concerns kept away from the eyes and ears of the men and women on the ground.

I'm not denying that there were were huge risks/fears; I'm denying that it made sense to evaluate them as being worse than the equally catastrophic alternatives (which were basically "a tiny chance of victory, with failure resulting in being wiped out," which is functionally the same outcome as the G-Bombs killing everyone). In that context, they at least had good reason to believe the bombs could beat the BETA (and had previous experience of it letting them reclaim territory), so even if it was a roll of the dice as to whether they would cause other problems it's not like there were any other good options. Even with the success of Alternative 4 (is that the main plot one, forget) they were still forced into a plan with a very low chance of success, and without Alternative 4 they were looking at literally no other plausible options. So basically my point is that using the G-Bombs was actually a pretty reasonable option, and even given what we know about them it still would make sense to include them as part of the strategy (since that actually had been done in the past without ending the world, so clearly they can at least be used some without causing catastrophic damage).

By the way, if I were someone else and read my and Raxivace's posts about Alternative I'd probably be turned off from reading it, so I feel like I should mention that even with my criticism of the second half it's still extremely entertaining. So I don't want anyone who hasn't read it to be put off by that.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 25, 2019

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

ViggyNash posted:

So was there any point to having an entire game of generic high school romcom hijinx before all the aliens and apocalypse? Any reason a condensed version it couldn't have been the first third of Unlimited or something?It just seems really weird that the bait-n-switch came after an entire multi-dozen hour game. And also a waste of time

The main point of it is to draw contrast with the protagonist's experiences in the alternate timeline (and thus create a sense of "nostalgia"), and there are also a variety of things that happen during it that directly connect with events in Alternative (and are kind of neat to notice after the fact).

Not sure if this entirely justifies its existence and length, but that's its main purpose.

Vaguely on the topic of Re:Zero, I just realized that Muv-Luv is also sorta an isekai (if you consider alternate timelines to be "another world").

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Condiv posted:

on episodes 1 & 2, what bothers me about subaru is how he keeps acting like a jackass after dying like 4 times. i can stand the "i'm in an isekai and this is like my rpgs wow" style behavior at first, but after getting stabbed and dying (and realizing that's what's happening) you'd think he'd have toned it down a lot, but at the end of episode two he's still doing this bullshit.

the contrast of subaru being goony as gently caress with a story where the main character dies at the drop of a hat is I guess what really grates on me. it feels like the show keeps veering between dark as gently caress and lighthearted, and the refusal to stick with one or the other is probably what's bugging me

I feel like Subaru's behavior is actually pretty well explained.

My controversial Re:Zero opinion is that Rem is actually pretty lame. She's not bad or anything, but the fanbase seems to think she's the most amazing thing ever for some reason. Emilia is also pretty lame for the first three arcs, but is still more interesting on the whole than Rem (though Emilia is even worse than Rem as a romance, even if she's pretty good as a character). Both romances are pretty bad, with the romance angles being the only aspect of this series I really dislike (it's the only aspect where Re:Zero kinda gets into "typical isekai/anime" territory).

Most of the rest of the cast is good.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Grouchio posted:

You're really gonna like season 2 then.

I've read arc 4 (it's why I like Emilia more as a character*). I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of stuff animated. Arc 4 is super good.

* though Arc 4 actually makes me like her less as a romance - a lot of Emilia's behavior suddenly makes a lot more sense once you realize that she's a 14 year old (I think that's her mental age) in the body of an 18 year old, but it also makes Subaru romancing her kinda messed up (even though he obviously had no way of knowing that when he first met her).

Conspiratiorist posted:

I think the romances are pretty believable in how straightforward they are. To me it feels that media has sort of conditioned audiences in regards to their expectations of what a good romance looks like, which is mainly tied to inter-character chemistry, when the truth is that people are irrational creatures that get together sometimes just because, and bonds build from there through shared experience.

Subaru develops an instant-crush on Emilia because she's a cutie that's totally his type, who helps him out when he's lost all alone, and the stresses of their situation turns it into a near obsession before he actually tries to address her as a person, and by then he's committed.

Rem has her entire world absolutely rocked by this mysterious stranger, who she knows only accidentally managed to reach through to her and allow her to start unpacking a decade of pent up guilt, and she's smart and perceptive enough to know he's got his issues, but she doesn't care. You could argue that hero worship isn't a good or healthy starting point for a romance (and Subaru would agree), but Rem really doesn't care. She's going for it. Subaru's response is rejection, and even then she doesn't care. She's overwhelming.

And for Emilia, she's young and Subaru is essentially the only boy her age in her life, who is nice to her and she finds fun and clever and courageous (if foolhardy), but even then she only very hesitantly considers returning his obvious affections - not because she dislikes him, but because of her circumstances combined being understandably wary of his and the effect she feels she has on him.

Rem having feelings for Subaru makes perfect sense and is entirely believable, but in general I personally dislike romances that are founded upon someone being some sort of savior figure. And while you can argue "but Rem actually does the fighting and sorta 'saved' Subaru in some fashion through her words" that still has no bearing on what made her develop feelings.

My personal preference for fictional romances are ones where the romance forms as a result of the characters having genuine social chemistry and shared interests, rather than there being specific events that motivated them to fall in love. A good example (from a romance with a male protagonist) is the romance in "Ookami shounen wa kyou mo uso wo kasaneru" (this is much more common in manga/manhwa with female protagonists).

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Conspiratiorist posted:

Oh, it's very much not healthy at all, but it's acknowledged as such in-universe and by the people involved rather than just given a complete pass, so I give it points for that, as well for the fact that it does lead to a relatable ongoing relationship conflict between Emilia and Subaru that's realistically impossible to resolve.

At the same time I find myself rooting for Rem. She's been through a lot, and now she's finally trying to pursue happiness for herself - perhaps not in the best way, or with the best candidate, but Subaru is still a good boy who's able to understand her and deal with her eccentricities (the opposite also being true), so if they had met each other in better circumstances they'd inarguably be a pretty good match. The IF stories even show that they work things out and the result is so saccharine it's a borderline diabetic risk. Also, unsurprisingly, they're pretty bad parents. With how much effort she puts in, I think it's hard not to feel for her.

ED: IIRC Nagatsuki once said that had Subaru not been isekai'd, his parents would've eventually strong-armed him back to school, where he'd have hooked up with and eventually married an underclassman with a personality much like Rem's.

I feel like the best result for Rem (and honestly also Emilia) is just getting to live a normal-ish life where they actually have the opportunity to meet other people. Both are in situations where they effectively don't have any other options - Emilia because the world hates her appearance (which conveniently is completely normal and fine to our protagonist, so from her perspective he's literally "the only person who would have her") and Rem because she was a live-in maid with low self-esteem who is now unhealthily emotionally bound to Subaru.

The only actually compelling Subaru pair-up is Subaru x Julius.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

The fourth arc really has a ridiculous amount of content, to the extent where it almost seems like it would be a little tight even with a full 26 episodes. If I think back on the first 4 arcs (I still haven't read any beyond that; I should get around to that at some point), most of the stuff that stands out to me is from the fourth.

I actually didn't really care much about the spoiler thing people are talking about (I feel like Rem didn't really have much more to explore as a character, so transforming her into just being a plot device/motivation was probably a good thing and allowed this season to focus more on other characters), but there's a lot of other stuff coming up that is really great. Some great characters introduced in this seasons (or past characters developed much more).

I won't mention anything even in spoiler tags, not so much because of there being shocking twists (though there's at least one thing that kinda qualifies as that), but because some of the things that happen were things that were genuinely interesting, particularly for this genre.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

AnoHito posted:

Everyone just kind of accepts that Subaru is super weird and seems to know a ton of random things that he really shouldn't know. Either that or they might just think he's delusional, which given his actions in the "true" timeline, not exactly a far-out idea.

Yeah, someone in this arc actually directly comments on how Subaru is perceived* (which is something we don't get a good sense for as the audience, since we only see things from Subaru's perspective including all the re-runs).

* no idea if that specific dialogue will make it into this season; I can't remember if it took place during an "important conversation" or not

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Blaze Dragon posted:

It makes for a very compelling mystery, which, as far as we know, no one other than a character who doesn't even seem to physically exist can answer as of now.

Yeah, one thing this series is very good at is having a lot of different mysteries (and continually introducing new ones) while still doling out answers frequently enough that you feel like "progress" is being made.

I think I mentioned before in this thread that the only thing I dislike about Re:Zero is its romance elements; everything else (setting, characters, the specific action/events that take place) is unusually good for the genre.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Julias posted:

This Grouchio. People who have patiently waited years for the season want to be able to respond in this thread without getting spoiled on things, and you have had a really bad track record of not being able to control yourself when it comes to accidentally spoiling things for others, whether they be unmarked spoilers or not properly indicating what you are putting behind spoiler bars.

Infact I'm going to suggest that you don't post spoilers at all in this thread, unless there is a specific difference between the anime and the light novel/web novel, in which case you should mark in spoilers that you are talking about wn/ln differences. Thanks.

One other thing I'd add to this, not for Grouchio specifically but for anyone who has read this season's content, is that indirect things can also serve as spoilers. I've had to stop myself from posting things a few times that don't reveal information, but reveal "whether information will be revealed." So stuff like saying "this will be explained" in response to someone speculating about something is a sort of spoiler. Even something as simple as "a person who has read the future content speculating about something" is a sort of spoiler, because it's effectively stating "this question is not answered during this season's content." There's not really much that can safely be discussed if you've already read ahead, because any discussion by someone who has is going to be at least indirectly revealing some information.

Normally I wouldn't care as much about this sort of thing, but this is an incomplete series that is very heavy on the mysteries, so information as simple as "this will be answered soon" or "this won't be answered soon" can be pretty revealing.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

madmac posted:

I've always appreciated how normal Subaru's backstory is. He was a good kid, if a little misguided as kids often are. He had good parents who cared about him. He just got a little too wrapped up in his own insecurities until he had put himself into a corner emotionally.

At the same time, even though it's all very normal and understated, it's very easy to see all the bits and pieces that make up his personality. It's really well done, IMO.

(these spoiler tags are just from the most recent episode's content)

It's uncommon in this genre (and honestly "LNs/manga/anime with younger male protagonists" in general) for the protagonist to actually 1. have both parents and 2. have them not be faceless figures or working abroad or something, so I like how Subaru not only has parents but has parents with characterization who had a clear impact on who he is.

It's exceptionally depressing when you think about what the situation for his parents must be like now. Their life is basically ruined, especially since Subaru was an only child. Honestly probably the most depressing thing in this series up until this point.

Subaru's stress is also pretty understandable; it reminds me of my third semester in college when I skipped most of my classes. I'd get really stressed out in the time leading up to them, and once the time of them starting had passed I'd feel a sort of relief since the choice was now out of my hands.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

I should probably start watching the anime soon, since it seems like you guys are getting to the point where I forget the exact order in which things happen.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Raenir Salazar posted:

There's a few possibilities here, one is that Roswaal momentarily lost his cool seeing one of his Servants dead in front of him; another is he was pretending to get upset enough to force the issue in order to motivate Subaru to reset the loop. Or something else.

Did Roswaal actually attack Subaru there? I feel like I only remember Ram really going after him.

edit: I looked up the episode, and he says he's a little angry and then I think it's implied that he fired a single attack at Beatrice or something, but that's it; he doesn't pursue and Beatrice obviously isn't killed by him.

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Aug 11, 2020

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Wark Say posted:

You can absolutely talk about episodes. Like you can post something akin to "Hearing Mamiko Noto's normally 'sweet' typecast voice has become absolutely loving terrifying" or whatever you want as long as it's not spoilers of this arc (or any future arcs for that matter).

Also that is some incredibly cute fanart.

Eh, I kind of disagree with this beyond stuff that is limited to technical aspects of the episode's production, like the thing you mentioned or someone saying "I like how this part was animated," etc. Talking about the events of an episode as someone who has read ahead is kind of unavoidably and intrinsically a spoiler, because it tells people "this is the person's opinion about events/characters as someone who knows what happens in the future." For example, even something as simple as expressing positive opinions towards a character is the same as saying "this character won't become evil later."

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Raxivace posted:

^That does kind of make me wonder what a fan-edit of Re:Zero that only has Subaru's final loops would feel like. Intentionally decoupling the viewer from Subaru's perspective might be interesting.

At some point someone mentions that, to other people, Subaru seems like a guy who is just miraculously always in the right place at the right time.

(this is also why he gets treated with suspicion sometimes)

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

This series is one of the few that I've read that is heavily dependent upon its mysteries/reveals, but where those mysteries/reveals end up being completely satisfying and making perfect sense. It's interesting reading peoples' predictions.

I need to watch the rabbit episode; in the WN the description of it was particularly disturbing and gruesome because it's from his perspective with his internal narration about how it feels. Looking forward to when Subaru is killed by scaphism or something in a future arc.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Maxwell Adams posted:

When Subaru was taking the trial, the vision of his mother said something like, "You're only half your father, so you only need to be half as cool as him. The rest of you can just be Subaru".

What is strange about this? It just seems like the "half your father" part is just referring to his father being one of his two parents (the other half being his mother).

Maxwell Adams posted:

Subaru had his gate sealed off when he was very young, and always had natural spellcasting abilities.

I'm under the impression that being able to cast some level of magic is pretty common in this setting and Subaru's level is likely the level many random people have (that is only barely useful and strains him even at that barely useful level).

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

The impression I get about the heart-crushing stuff is that the "can't tell anyone" rule essentially functions intelligently (Satella making the decision of what to do based on the circumstances) rather than using some sort of hard rules that could be exploited.

dipwood posted:

You'd think at this point Subaru would have some sort of auto-suicide device on tap to expedite the process. Even when he does it voluntarily, he's using a knife which can't be too pleasant.

I like how the guy in the web serial Mother of Learning actually does this by putting some sort of explosive around his neck that causes instant death.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Wollawolla posted:

It should be noted that this side chapter takes place after Arc 5 (we’re about half-way through 4), so there could be some spoilers even if it exists in a different canon.

Yeah, it sort of indirectly spoils some things from Arc 4 (like in the sense of implying that things happen in the "main timeline" that didn't happen in the IF timeline). I haven't read Arc 5 and anything about Arc 5 was vague enough that it didn't really spoil that, though.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

One advantage to the WN is that it makes absolute sure you know what's going on through extensive repetition and internal narration. If you're supposed to know who someone is (or not know who they are), Subaru's internal narration will let you know.

Kazy posted:

Did anyone else expect Subaru to suddenly eat it at the end there?

When reading the WN 4th arc there are a bunch of times where I expected Subaru to die but he just kept going. I think there were at least 5 times where I was totally sure a loop was about to end and then it proceeded to continue for many more chapters.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Rem's still in a coma and no one remembers her but Subaru.

If no one remembers you, did you ever really exist?

Subaru doesn't count because he's not a native of their world.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

AnoHito posted:

Eh, the better twin is still fine.

Finally, someone with correct opinions

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

A couple questions regarding the anime vs WN (no real spoilers for anyone who has seen the full new anime season):

- Doesn't Subaru use the sloth witch factor more than once in the WN? I feel like I remember him using it 2 or 3 times, as opposed to once in the anime.
- I feel like I remember there being more stuff involving the Ryuzu clones, but I could be misremembering.

The one thing I think worked a bit better in the WN is that the various "character gives inspiring speech to other character" scenes felt much more spaced out in the WN, while it feels a little awkward having these big moments literally like 1+ times an episode during the latter half of this season. This isn't really the anime's fault, though, since it had to compress all this content within a single season.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Did the anime ever cover how Emilia is mentally like 14 years old or something? Don't remember that being mentioned and I think it came up in the WN at some point (in a way that simultaneously made Emilia's character make more sense and made Subaru's romance with her ethically dubious).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

Taima posted:

Another random thought: isn't it a plot hole that Beatrice "saved up her mana" forever in her bid to destroy the rabbits (and then become useless I guess afterwards)? We're told on numerous occasions that all magical beings of sufficient power need to vent their mana (Puck and later Ros) but Beatrice just gets to stockpile mana for 400 years?

I think you can interpret it as "she saved up to maximum capacity and then vented the rest." I'm not sure if it specifies that she's been increasing it for the full ~400 years.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply