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OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC


I nearly managed to beeline through just the story missions of the pre-sequel, but the ramp up to 26 level enemies is to much for my level 20 Jack and his level 19 guns.

The final boss of the penultimate mission was weirdly easy considering the level difference. I thought she might be wall.

Edit: This gunship fight is annoying.

OhFunny fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Apr 3, 2021

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Dross
Sep 26, 2006

Every night he puts his hot dogs in the trees so the pigeons can't get them.


That gunship fight was definitely one of my least favorite parts of my one play through, not least because I had no good long range corrosive weapon.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011



I feel they overcompensated for BL2 having no Guardian enemies in TPS, it just introduces like 6 new types all at once and it can be a lot on your first run, don't get me started on the Lost Legion Eternals as well.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Judge Tesla posted:

I feel they overcompensated for BL2 having no Guardian enemies in TPS, it just introduces like 6 new types all at once and it can be a lot on your first run, don't get me started on the Lost Legion Eternals as well.

TPS feels like they just didn't get enough environments done for how much game they wanted to make. You end up going to the same places over and over, and they all look the same, and the pace is so weird. It makes a lot of sense, given how little time the developers had.

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

The new raid boss is soloable with effort, took a while with my setup just because of the amount of HP being dealt with. Got some interesting loot though - The Company Man artifact gives 3 pretty substantial boosts to weapons from a given manufacturer, seems good, especially on Moze.

Also got to the Black Market machine, it seems to have a random spread of Breath of the Dying, Kyb's Worth (Wotan takedown drop) and the Redline (unique spawn drop, pretty rare) so seems worth keeping an eye on. Remains to be seen if they will carry event items or DLC stuff. Should be noted that you can't save scum it, when you come back from a reload it's gone.. Don't know what condition triggers that, I would think you have to interact with it rather than just load the map.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



Some notes on the new DLC from the Discord:
* There aren't any alternate story beats or dialogue outside of the single Ava scene that was posted on Twitter to promote the release.
* There are 4 new Ava quests which can be knocked out in an hour. It turns out there was an EVIL Guardian manipulating everyone who was actually responsible for the events of BL3. You kill it, and it tells you war is coming. Ava decides that the new mission is to find Poochie the Rockin' Dog Lilith. [THE END]
*Drop rates have been SUBSTANTIALLY reduced. Think BL2 stingy.
*The new way to get loot is from the Armory on the ship, which means grinding XP to get keys from the new Battle Passes.

I really appreciated Borderlands 3's constant balance updates that buffed PC skills and the bottom 80% of Legendary gear. That said, this DLC bodes poorly for the franchise.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011



I've had a further look at the drop rates and something is definitely wrong, I finished a Mayhem 10 Circle of Slaughter and got five legenderies, I killed Captain Traunt and Killavolt and got a single legendary off each of them, in the run ups to them I got nothing.

EDIT: I've had a look on Reddit and people are saying the drop rates have been lowered because you can re-roll anointments now, yeah but that's 250 eridium a pop pal.

I believe the new outlook on drops is that while you only need a gun to drop once (not counting specific elemental rolls) you do need the eridium to reroll the anoint into what you want.

Judge Tesla fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Apr 9, 2021

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008



Man, BL2 stingy is really friggan stingy. It's something I really appreciated with BL3 is that the drop rate was really good and I was always getting something really neat instead of getting 99% trash with that 1% coming like moments before the game ended. Them changing that is a real bummer.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


Are those drop rate changes affecting everything in the entire game? Cause I don't really care about grinding out endgame poo poo but if I were to replay the game as a different character, less cool stuff dropping is a net negative in my book. If so is there a way for me to not take that update but still play the game? Probably not right.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



thebardyspoon posted:

Are those drop rate changes affecting everything in the entire game? Cause I don't really care about grinding out endgame poo poo but if I were to replay the game as a different character, less cool stuff dropping is a net negative in my book. If so is there a way for me to not take that update but still play the game? Probably not right.

I suppose you could try playing it offline if you haven't already downloaded the new patch. That might work.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



Father Wendigo posted:

It goes so far as to affect the vending machine stock.

I suppose you could try playing it offline if you haven't already downloaded the new patch. That might work.

GrumpyGoesWest
Apr 9, 2015



I've been playing quite a bit since the dlc dropped and the difference in leg drops is night and day. Playing on m11 tvhm. Switched to m10 with lootsplosion and played slaughter shaft and maybe got 10 total after all rounds. Vending machines haven't had any for me either. Is it a bummer? Yeah I really need a snowdrift deathless. Maybe they overtuned? Not sure.

Rakeris
Jul 20, 2014



Wow only 10 from slaughter shaft? That's seems like a crazy nerf, I have not played since the update but wow if that's the case I would not have thought it would be that significant.

GrumpyGoesWest
Apr 9, 2015



Rakeris posted:

Wow only 10 from slaughter shaft? That's seems like a crazy nerf, I have not played since the update but wow if that's the case I would not have thought it would be that significant.

Yeah that's why I'm thinking they might have overtuned a bit. Before, the whole map was littered in orange which was ridiculous sure but now it's really bare. It's kind of halted my farming plans for my infinite bear build so I might try a new character and wrap up missions. Maybe the piece I need will pop up eventually. Hopefully they will re-adjust drops a tiny bit.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



GrumpyGoesWest posted:

Yeah that's why I'm thinking they might have overtuned a bit.
Reddit and the remaining streamers are insistent that having Legendary guns dropping at a rate greater than 1 per hour was what was ruining the game, and this is the first step in making Borderlands 3 great again.

victrix
Oct 30, 2007




I was looking to start a new game with Moze but uhhhhh this sounds like poo poo. My last playthrough of all the dlc had cool gear raining and it was a blast.

Dross
Sep 26, 2006

Every night he puts his hot dogs in the trees so the pigeons can't get them.


Iím guessing the intent was to balance the fact that now you donít have to farm several of the legendary you want in order to get the right anoint.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



Dross posted:

I’m guessing the intent was to balance the fact that now you don’t have to farm several of the legendary you want in order to get the right anoint.
In practice, returning to the era of 1.2% drop rates at the end of the game's DLC supported lifespan is something you should only do if you're about to transition to a Freemium sales model.

GrumpyGoesWest
Apr 9, 2015



Father Wendigo posted:

Reddit and the remaining streamers are insistent that having Legendary guns dropping at a rate greater than 1 per hour was what was ruining the game, and this is the first step in making Borderlands 3 great again.

In my opinion, having extensively played diablo 1-3 and all borderlands, the drops before recent dlc were too common. The recent change though is far too drastic. But that's what they do. I wouldn't be surprised if they tuned the drops upward a tiny bit. Some arguments on reddit or forums I can agree with for example why would I pay 500e to play the latest raid only to get one drop. I can understand that. But I have to roll my eyes at most. It sure was fun seeing orange rain from the sky though.

GrumpyGoesWest fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Apr 10, 2021

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



I started using a save editor with BL3 much sooner than I did with the previous Borderlands games, partly because I was already tired of the mechanic and partly because I found BL3 a lot less compelling than the earlier games.

Also, I find it hard to believe that of the incredibly light amount of DLC they have released with the 2nd Season Pass that it mostly involves Ava. It's like they just want to kill the franchise once and for all.

Tombot
Oct 21, 2008


It's odd, one of the complaints I've had with BL3 was how easy it was to get legendaries and also how overpowered the legendaries are. But you should still be get the ones you want without fruitlessly grinding the same boss for hours.

Raine
Apr 30, 2013

ACCELERATIONIST SUPERDOOMER





played the new patch with my wife today

getting an average of 1 legendary per boss kill on mayhem 10, which means we frequently got no legendaries at all


it definitely sucks, but the new dlc boss at the end of the quest chain sucks even harder

it wasn't even hard, the boss just has so much hp that we could have busted a planet with the amount of ordinance we put in its face (and in about the same amount of time, jesus christ)

at least it was presumably a fair warning for the raid boss, not even gonna bother

The Shame Boy
Jan 27, 2014

Dead weight, just like this post.




Yet again a company with a game with tons of loot drops and players are totally fine with the amount, if not the mechanics that surround, the amount of loot dropping. Then suddenly the the amount of loot drops dry up considerably and now nobody is happy.


I'd rather there be lots of legendary items dropping and most of them being not great when the gearing of the game is all about acquiring legendary items in the first place then to go back to how Base BL2 of all games handled it where all the drop rates are like 0.5% or some bullshit like that.


Weird how Diablo 3 and Blizzard of all companies are the only ones that seem to not mind letting players actually get a bunch of powerful items all of the time.

GrumpyGoesWest
Apr 9, 2015



I haven't played diablo 3 in quite some time (years) and had a blast with my crusader. Grinding it out but feeling rewarded and able to clear content at the highest difficulty. Most importantly having the pieces to make the builds I wanted to and not having to settle for jank. Still had to spend the time for the pieces but I eventually got them. In borderlands 3 I'm almost there with my moze build. I have it all technically just not the rolls I want. Getting a specific artifact or mod is going to be a doozy especially with a specific prefix.

Personally I'm indifferent about the new dlc. The content isn't terrible. I'm still scratching my head at whether the drop rate is intentional or not.

16-bit RDRAM
May 31, 2020

figure out what you do



If I haven't bought the new dlc will the new drop rates apply?

Dross
Sep 26, 2006

Every night he puts his hot dogs in the trees so the pigeons can't get them.


Almost certainly, the new vendors donít even require the DLC.

brainSnakes
Jul 11, 2011

I'd never save you in a million years


The good part about the dlc is the new anointment reroll machine. Spent all my eridium to finish a urad build I was working on, so thatís cool.

Bad part is the drops nerf, and also the hero card thing. When I complained about not feeling like there was much to do at endgame when youíre fully geared, adding arbitrary WoW style dailies was not the solution I was hoping for.

The part that is annoying me more than it should? Epic store says I own all the cool new cov skins and that they released, but they arenít showing up in game.

Rinkles
Oct 24, 2010

What I'm getting at is...
Do you feel the same way?


doesn't the drop rate nerf essentially kill arenas and mobbing as an "end game" activity?

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011



Rinkles posted:

doesn't the drop rate nerf essentially kill arenas and mobbing as an "end game" activity?

Yeah, its back to boss farming for drops.

16-bit RDRAM
May 31, 2020

figure out what you do



Welp looks like I won't be returning to this game. Thanks randy you weird magician gently caress

CaptainSarcastic
Jul 6, 2013

HAIL SATAN



While I appreciate the number of one-sentence Steam reviews complaining about Ava, I think this is my favorite review so far of the "Director's Cut":

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.



https://twitter.com/Borderlands/status/1382695458162802693?s=19

They're not actually doing anything to address the lowered drop rates beyond 'monitoring the situation,' what the gently caress even inspired them to post this

Groshlak
Jan 9, 2021


What a non news. There is no update whatsoever.

Mr Scumbag
Jun 6, 2007

You're a fucking cocksucker, Jonathan


The funny thing is, I think if the game came out with 20% of the original legendary drop rate and no annointments, interest in it would have lasted much longer with far more people. Too many dropping eliminates the thrill of them, for the most part, and even 10% of the drop rate is still infinitely more obtainable than BL2's drop rate, so I don't think you would have had too many complaints beyond the usual handful of people who want all the best gear RIGHT NOW with no time investment.

I really doubt that most people that are interested in getting ideal or fun guns are also interested in farming for ideal versions of them, so when legendaries fall like rain, people fill up their bank and get what they want so quickly that they lose interest. Then there's just the fatigue of managing all of these guns. A big bank is good in theory, but it brings its own problems. The relatively small number of hardcore players could still farm for idea parts like they did in BL2.

That's more or less been my experience, anyway. Keeping track of which guns I have and which variants is a nightmare and makes a generous drop-rate more of a pain in the rear end than something satisfying. Lower chance of legendaries as well as no annointments would have made things far more satisfying for me, if only for the reason that it would have taken longer to discover all of the legendaries. The mystery of what might drop next and what weird kinds of features/redtext/etc goes a long way to keep you playing.

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

Mr Scumbag posted:

The funny thing is, I think if the game came out with 20% of the original legendary drop rate and no annointments, interest in it would have lasted much longer with far more people.

This is just BL2's stinginess, which sucked.

Mr Scumbag
Jun 6, 2007

You're a fucking cocksucker, Jonathan


Cease to Hope posted:

This is just BL2's stinginess, which sucked.

Not even close!

It would be something on the order of playing for an hour and getting a few legendaries in BL3 whereas you'd have to play for many hours in BL2 to get even one legendary, unless you were specifically farming bosses.

Doing a circle of slaughter in BL3 results in 40+ legendaries (and I think this is a conservative estimate). Killing the same number of high level enemies in BL2, again, would be unlikely to net you even one legendary. I think you're forgetting just how stingy BL2 was.

BL3 was crazy generous to the point you'd regularly get more than one legendary in boss fights on your first run of the game. Mayhem levels scaled this up even more.

Mr Scumbag fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 16, 2021

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

That generosity was fine. Not every game has to stretch out letting you play with all of its toys over 1000 hours. It was cool to have a Diablo-like game that didn't lock you into a a hardcore farming endgame, but rather matched the pace of giving access to all of the toys in the game nicely to finishing all of the story.

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.



Cease to Hope posted:

This is just BL2's stinginess, which sucked.

do you even remember the drop rates of borderlands 2? world drops were almost non-existent and iirc the boss drop rate was 1%. this made some sort of sense because of how legendaries were designed compared to the first game. in BL2 thereís less variety in parts than there was in BL1, and legendary weapons will have more base damage than purple weapons that will have more base damage than blue weapons and so on. basically the quality spread on a per-weapon basis was way lower so the drop rates were lower as well to compensate. but also to compensate for that compensation bosses were given dedicated drops so it would be easier to get specific stuff you were looking for.

i think that entire system is worse than the one in the first game but i understand where the decisions came from.

in the third game they added a lot more legendaries than in the previous games that generally had one per manufacturer and weapon type before, and they increased the variation of parts per legendary. in addition to that they added anointments that meant that even if you get all the parts you need you can still roll snake eyes on the anoint and still have a reason to farm. removing, or at least reducing significantly, the impact of anoints in dropped weapons without addressing the drop rates would throw the balance completely out of whack.

iíve said before that i think anoints were a bad idea and the drop rates required to make them possible were so high that it became overwhelming to sift through. iím not saying that the changes to the system makes the game better, they may have overtuned it i have yet to play the new update, but i appreciate them at least trying to fix some fundamental problems with the game.

16-bit RDRAM
May 31, 2020

figure out what you do



I gave up on borderlands 2's dlc when I was partway through Torgue and it took multiple mags to kill regular enemies who gave me 1xp. Perfect illustration of how experience-wreckingly stingy the drops were

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Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011
the forum where people post about insurance in case they have to kill someone is mad at this guy again lol

watho posted:

do you even remember the drop rates of borderlands 2? world drops were almost non-existent and iirc the boss drop rate was 1%. this made some sort of sense because of how legendaries were designed compared to the first game. in BL2 thereís less variety in parts than there was in BL1, and legendary weapons will have more base damage than purple weapons that will have more base damage than blue weapons and so on. basically the quality spread on a per-weapon basis was way lower so the drop rates were lower as well to compensate. but also to compensate for that compensation bosses were given dedicated drops so it would be easier to get specific stuff you were looking for.

i think that entire system is worse than the one in the first game but i understand where the decisions came from.

in the third game they added a lot more legendaries than in the previous games that generally had one per manufacturer and weapon type before, and they increased the variation of parts per legendary. in addition to that they added anointments that meant that even if you get all the parts you need you can still roll snake eyes on the anoint and still have a reason to farm. removing, or at least reducing significantly, the impact of anoints in dropped weapons without addressing the drop rates would throw the balance completely out of whack.

iíve said before that i think anoints were a bad idea and the drop rates required to make them possible were so high that it became overwhelming to sift through. iím not saying that the changes to the system makes the game better, they may have overtuned it i have yet to play the new update, but i appreciate them at least trying to fix some fundamental problems with the game.

I do, quite clearly. It might be fairer to compare it to Pre-Sequel's stinginess in purely numeric terms, but the difference is philosophical.

BL2 was designed to make you earn access to the toys, to make you earn the knowledge that the toys even existed. Diablo 2 did this, and so did a lot of games copping its randomized loot: you have to earn your fun. If you're not playing on the hardest mode, farming the bosses over and over, doing the research (or experimentation) to even know where to farm, then you haven't really earned the cool toys.

BL3 tossed that, and just gives you legendaries in a reasonable timescale. There are problems with this, chiefly that there's really nothing to aspire to if you get the aspirational items in a reasonable timescale. It's why people complained about getting bored with BL3, and I understand why. Gearbox's solution was to change the aspiration to getting the right set of perfect rolls for legendaries rather than just getting to play with them at all, but that's less satisfying (in no small part because the anoints are not especially fun or interesting even when they are very strong).

I don't think 3's approach is flawless, but I do think it's better, in large part because it doesn't lock a huge portion of the game in a box that you can only unlock with an unreasonable amount of grinding. The fact that you get so many legendaries while leveling up that you can choose the ones you like rather than being stuck with the ones you get (or stuck with none because you get the bottom end of the bell curve) is a feature and not a bug to me.

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