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INH5
Dec 17, 2012
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Just got caught up on the show. I'm afraid to say that I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed by the build-up to the finale. Again, I think that still only having the vaguest of details about what "The Last War" will entail makes it hard to get a sense of the stakes. It doesn't help that the concept was only introduced partway into this season.

Still, at the very least we have one last chance for a Shocking Reveal, and that's one of the things that this show has been consistently good at. And I really hope that Emori lives.

Also, I just looked up the cast of the Pilot, and of the 15 named characters in the first episode, only 4 are still alive heading into the series finale. Has a network TV show ever done this before? Sure, a number of shows have killed off most of the cast in the grand finale, but this level of cast turnover over a non-anthology show's run feels almost unprecedented.

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Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

Not exactly the same but shows like ER had several large cast turnovers, but I guess the characters aren't all dead.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



If you want to compare CW shows Arrow has it beat with only 3 actors from the first episode making it to the end of the series as series regulars. Although it would have been 4 but they recast Sara when she became a recurring character.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


muscles like this! posted:

If you want to compare CW shows Arrow has it beat with only 3 actors from the first episode making it to the end of the series as series regulars. Although it would have been 4 but they recast Sara when she became a recurring character.

Murphy's not a regular in the first season, so I guess it's tied.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



Kelly Hu should show up again in the finale. That'd be something.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010



INH5 posted:

Just got caught up on the show. I'm afraid to say that I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed by the build-up to the finale. Again, I think that still only having the vaguest of details about what "The Last War" will entail makes it hard to get a sense of the stakes. It doesn't help that the concept was only introduced partway into this season.

Still, at the very least we have one last chance for a Shocking Reveal, and that's one of the things that this show has been consistently good at. And I really hope that Emori lives.

Also, I just looked up the cast of the Pilot, and of the 15 named characters in the first episode, only 4 are still alive heading into the series finale. Has a network TV show ever done this before? Sure, a number of shows have killed off most of the cast in the grand finale, but this level of cast turnover over a non-anthology show's run feels almost unprecedented.

I don't have numbers to hand but Lost would be a good contender.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



I just looked it up and Spartacus has exactly one actor common to both the premiere and the finale, with the titular character being recast between those points (sod cancer).

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Well, that was...that was something. I'm still processing it. It certainly wasn't the worst ending to a Sci-Fi show that I've ever seen.

If nothing else, Clarke getting officially declared to be the worst human in the universe is hilarious.

INH5 fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Oct 1, 2020

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



I didn't recognize any of the songs in this. If only they played real mainstream slappers like Radioactive.

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

I was thinking back on the whole series, and I realized that having the final moral be "leaving the physical world and ascending into a being-of-light immortal collective consciousness thing is good, actually" is a really awkward fit with the ending, and really entire premise, of Season 3.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

Cadogan would have passed the test

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Oh poo poo cameos.

Mu Zeta posted:

Cadogan would have passed the test

INH5 posted:

If nothing else, Clarke getting officially declared to be the worst human in the universe is hilarious.


The other important thing is that Bellamy is rotting in space hell.

The ending was fine I supposed. Definitely would've preferred a downer ending with humanity being turned into crystal statues or Clarke living the rest of her days alone but I do wish they had another season so they didn't have to cram the Sanctum power struggle and The Last War into the same season. I just keep remembering how the Children of Gabriel were a big deal in s6 and then got done super dirty in s7.

2>5>1>6>7>>>4>3 would probably be my rankings for the seasons, but none of them were outright bad. 7 was still above average and 3 and 4 were okay, even if they were still more depressing than normal. Especially season 4 where every win they had was immediately undercut by a new problem which became comical halfway through the season but kept going.

Zebulon
Aug 20, 2005

Oh god why does it burn?!


I'm really now sure what to think of this ending, aside Genghis Clarke going in hard at the beginning of it being pretty fun for one last ride. Kind of wish we'd gotten confirmation that Murphy gets to cockroach his way into being the last living human, and Clarke being straight up exiled was hilarious. The weird-rear end purgatory ending of some of humanity just deciding to rough it out on Earth rather than hang on Bardo where there's at least, you know, facilities and all of that or even Sanctum is weird too.

There's definitely been worse series endings, but the goon that pointed out how this flies in the face of the ALIE season's ending is pretty right too. Instead of techno ascension we get weird-rear end alien energy being hivemind ascension and that's better because ???

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Zebulon posted:

I'm really now sure what to think of this ending, aside Genghis Clarke going in hard at the beginning of it being pretty fun for one last ride. Kind of wish we'd gotten confirmation that Murphy gets to cockroach his way into being the last living human, and Clarke being straight up exiled was hilarious. The weird-rear end purgatory ending of some of humanity just deciding to rough it out on Earth rather than hang on Bardo where there's at least, you know, facilities and all of that or even Sanctum is weird too.

There's definitely been worse series endings, but the goon that pointed out how this flies in the face of the ALIE season's ending is pretty right too. Instead of techno ascension we get weird-rear end alien energy being hivemind ascension and that's better because ???

I would guess because magic alien ascension is forever while techno ascension would still fail after a century or so when the power plants breakdown or stop working. Also you are free to leave at anytime if you want. Techno ascension your body just dies and you are hosed and so is all of humanity.

Also this one had to be earned or something idk instead of the cultlike way that it was presented in s3. I don't remember much about the s3 version but I'm sure there are differences.

DogsInSpace!
Sep 11, 2001

Mind Explode!
Out Come Dogs!




Fun Shoe

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I would guess because magic alien ascension is forever while techno ascension would still fail after a century or so when the power plants breakdown or stop working. Also you are free to leave at anytime if you want. Techno ascension your body just dies and you are hosed and so is all of humanity.

Also this one had to be earned or something idk instead of the cultlike way that it was presented in s3. I don't remember much about the s3 version but I'm sure there are differences.

Yeah the Allie ascension you surrendered and lost who you were and gave it all up for the Techno Collective. Here it's a choice to not fight and give up those baser parts of being human in order to join the energy Collective? I mean... you are still choosing to not fight and hug it out and thus everything will be fine because the other guys somehow will as well? Despite Sheiheida proving that there is guys out there that will gently caress it up. I'm sure the protestors and everyone not white in the US would also disagree with this. Seems a bit lame but I guess the key is to not think about it overmuch. Still wish they had let a few ones ascend and tell the rest to learn to not be asshats and try again. Either that or a darker ending.

I laughed at loud at the Aliens calling Genghis Clarke the worst as well as the scene where Clarke is like "I get to ascend?" and the alien is like "You killed someone. During the test for enlightenment. That has NEVER been done. gently caress no." Ending should have been dark as Clarke has always been the antagonist. I'm sure if someone had shot Clarke in the first episode we would have had a super boring series where everyone lived in peace. Also

Mu Zeta posted:

Cadogan would have passed the test
gently caress yeah. I like that actor and was sad he got Clarked. The alien telling Clarke that she is the worst keeps making me giggle like a kid. Can't believe anyone thought that Clarke was the bad guy because "someone needed to be". I will always maintain Clarke isn't bad because "x" but because she is Clarke. Before Madi she was genociding peeps because she had bad hair days or someone said something mean. Whole series is her making things even worse because she is the doom that fell from the Sky. That is why we love Genghis Clark and all hail.

So everyone ascends because ol Sheiheida and Clarke were the only real bad guys? Then some decided to come back? Was Emori not there? I mean.... Murphy looking at eternal hippy ascension peace and going "gently caress that" is totally Murph but sad he didn't get to bring Emori back with him. So.... no kids and when they die they go perm dead? The all powerful god beings are dicks. Also with the goon wondering why they'd rather build huts and lean tos by the BC river and not the actual buildings a walk away. BC woods and rivers are swanky and I love them but rocks suck to sleep on and it gets really damp and cold.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

The other important thing is that Bellamy is rotting in space hell.
Word

Also refuse to believe humany ascends and Dogs don't. Thought there were more dogs around but man.... if there is just one last doggo who dies alone after all his human friends do then.... jesus that is sad. I would say that perhaps Dogs have already ascended but would someone who has ascended lick his balls and rear end in a top hat that often?

Better than most endings. I think. Solid C+? C? Better than Game of Thrones or Dexter? Same level as Lost? A bit above?

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


Pretty solid ending. Glad I stuck around for the ride.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





DogsInSpace! posted:

So everyone ascends because ol Sheiheida and Clarke were the only real bad guys?

Octavia definitely didn't deserve to ascend either but

Bloodreina was the worst

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


Did not-Lexa say they can't have babies or something? So guilt free banging?

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Rhyno posted:

Did not-Lexa say they can't have babies or something? So guilt free banging?

"There won't be offspring and they won't join us when they die. But none of them seem to care."

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


Yeah that's odd, if you're single that life is gonna suck. Everybody better get down with the poly life pretty quick.

DogsInSpace!
Sep 11, 2001

Mind Explode!
Out Come Dogs!




Fun Shoe

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

"There won't be offspring and they won't join us when they die. But none of them seem to care."

Rhyno posted:

Yeah that's odd, if you're single that life is gonna suck. Everybody better get down with the poly life pretty quick.

So it's the happiest of all possibilities for the Murphy?

Btw on my "score" of the ending bear in mind I didn't hate the ending of Lost as much as some. Yeah C or C+ is a good rating on that ending for me. Would've liked a different ending but it's ok. The series as a whole was solid although, like that one goon, I wish they had another season to focus on the Final War. Decent season and good show overall. If anyone was going to spell the end of the Human Race it was Genghis Clarke. That is what she did. Transcendence is still an end of the human race that was. She went from tribes, to armies and villages to the entire planet. In the end the only way she could surpass herself was killing everyone. The one true Wanheda. I almost want her to pop up on a future show as a big bad who killed her entire universe and is now growing bored of nothing left to kill.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Octavia definitely didn't deserve to ascend either but

Bloodreina was the worst

I can only guess that she truly grew from the person she was. I do like the narrative of redemption and rehabilitation and she did seem to confront and move past the anger and guilt. All that said: Blodreina was really awful but a distant second to Clarke. Octavia was messed up and murderous and willing to kill all her followers to defeat an enemy she wanted to cleanse but Clarke is Thanos level "kill half of the universe" because she's in a bad mood. Hell, she is worse than Thanos. Thanos at least has a certain logic to his actions. Clarke is like the storm. You can't plead with it, you can't reason with it. You just have to accept your time has come and make peace with your gods.

DogsInSpace! fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 1, 2020

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Fun Shoe

That was a very solid ending and probably the best episode of s 6 or 7.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


I'm just glad the writers agreed with us that Clarke was the worst and deserved no eternal reward.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



These aliens sure have a hosed up system when the wrong person going in could doom an entire species. Also super harsh to tell Clarke that she can never earn the right to transcend no matter what she does.

pressedbunny
May 31, 2007

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION~!

he knows...


DogsInSpace! posted:

Was Emori not there? I mean.... Murphy looking at eternal hippy ascension peace and going "gently caress that" is totally Murph but sad he didn't get to bring Emori back with him.
Emori is there at the end. She's dicking about at the very back of the camp. So Murphy's set. Though, that does also completely fly in the face of being told dead people won't transcend.

Which probably is my biggest complaint with that ending. If the dead don't transcend then that means only what, two hundred people have joined the alien hivemind? Three hundred maybe? And at least half of them are killers; Octavia's a cannibal queen and we were previously told all those miners were the worst criminal scum in Earth's history. If a higher power wants a species to evolve and help further the collective conscience of the universe, a couple hundred sketchy people doesn't seem worth it. Surely they'd want humanity to repopulate a bit, like there should be a significantly higher minimum headcount before a species can be tested, make sure there are enough good 'uns for it to actually be worthwhile.

I have some more minor complaints—ending on a U2 song is something CW had already done to death a decade ago—but overall, really enjoyed that last episode and most of season seven. That first scene might be my favourite in the show's entire run just for the sheer honesty of it.
Levitt: "More killing, that's the answer?"
*Clarke runs ahead with a grenade in each hand*
Octavia: "It's what we do "

I cheered for Clarke getting in one last good killing spree and not giving Cadogan the slightest chance. I cheered for Sheidheda getting blown to mist. (not-)Lexa was spoilt for me but it put a huge grin on my face seeing her again anyway. I'm equally happy with both Clarke having to face being the most irredeemable person in the universe but also with her and the rest of the hero crew getting to just live quietly on Earth as they always wanted.
Most importantly, the dog survived; 10/10.

I'll leave it a while, but I do think I will go back to episode one and rewatch the whole thing at some point, which I don't usually do with this kind of show. I expect the first three seasons will be very interesting to see again, now knowing where everything ends up. Though at the same time I now feel less interested in the prequel series, with Callie, Becca, and clearly everything else that came before really not mattering.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



I think the number was definitely higher than we just saw because there were all the kids on Bardo that we saw in previous episodes as well as all the random civvies on Sanctuary. The whole thing about dead being dead just seemed kind of mean spirited for a show that has killed off so many characters.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

Bat 'em up!




I think Emori got to live because her consciousness and what is actually her was still alive in Murphy at the time of Ascension, so maybe a bit of a work around, but I think it's pretty fair.

I'm ok with that finale.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001




I thought it was a fantastic ending. I really, really didn't think they would stick the landing. I agree another season to focus on Cadogan and the Bardo Cult would have been cool, but they did manage to really dive into it pretty good, especially for being such a tonal shift from the Sanctum drama and Gabriel last season. It helped that we had the bottle episodes of the guys stuck in the cabin on the forest prison planet for 20 years, the prequel episode, and the Bellamy one. Even though they kinda stopped the plot, those 3 episodes contained a whole season of exposition and character advancement.

It's amazing where they went from the initial concept. I wonder how long they had this stuff in mind? Easter Egging Cadogan so far back meant they had some idea, but I wonder just how much they planned out?

The cameos were great. I was disappointed we never saw Lexa in any of the Flame scenes, or had her appear in someone's head earlier in the season or last season, like arguing with Shieldheda for Madi's soul. Then when she shows up in the finale I thought "well that's cool, but it would also have been cool for Clarke to see her mother and have that actress back--oh nevermind, there she is!"


INH5 posted:

I was thinking back on the whole series, and I realized that having the final moral be "leaving the physical world and ascending into a being-of-light immortal collective consciousness thing is good, actually" is a really awkward fit with the ending, and really entire premise, of Season 3.

A.L.I.E. did nothing wrong.


Mu Zeta posted:

Cadogan would have passed the test

That is one interesting thing to debate after the show is done. Cadogan was essentially right. He discovered the Spaceball, he got everyone to Bardo, contacted the aliens. He prepared the way for going to The Test. Maybe if he'd died in the Bunker, the Sanctum people would have eventually found the Spaceball Network and got to Bardo and figured poo poo out in a few hundred years, but imagine Clarke and everyone showed up anyway in that timeline and wrecked their poo poo? Humanity might have been on Sanctum forever.

In fact, another thing you might say is: Cadogan did nothing wrong. If I ever could ask Rothenburg one question it would be that: would Cadogan have passed The Test?

Another one who was right was Becca. She correctly called it that humanity wouldn't pass that test at the time. In a way, it was her refusing, Cadogan's cult, and Clarke's wave of murder (and taking on the guilt of that) which really put humanity in a place to be "saved." All those pieces had to fall into place.


A couple of other unanswered questions:

Zebulon posted:

The weird-rear end purgatory ending of some of humanity just deciding to rough it out on Earth rather than hang on Bardo where there's at least, you know, facilities and all of that or even Sanctum is weird too.

There's definitely been worse series endings, but the goon that pointed out how this flies in the face of the ALIE season's ending is pretty right too. Instead of techno ascension we get weird-rear end alien energy being hivemind ascension and that's better because ???

I think with Clarke's Helmet and the Spaceball they can go to Bardo or Sanctum any time. They probably just want to get back to nature a bit on the home planet. It also didn't look they'd been there long, or knew that they had a way to get to the Spaceball Network, so for all we know they might bail right after the credits rolled.

Speaking of which, on that fade to credits, what was that quick overlay of a girl drawing? Was that Madi? Or Clarke in her prison in the first episode? If so does that mean the whole show is Clarke's dream before she was floated?

As far as ALIE vs Alien ascension, I think the jury will always be out. We just have the alien avatar's word that this is really cool for people. Describing it as they people are "sort of alive" and "one with them" and "at peace and will never know pain or death" could also be construed as really creepy and might entail a borgification and loss of personal consciousness and individuality. It's another great thing to debate after the show--which is the better ending: alien transcendence, ALIE Matrix heaven where you can wish for whatever you want and live in an idealized 21st century future city, or Clarke and a few people living and dying free but human?

One final thought: I also am reminded that Russell and the Primes were ready to take the ship and gently caress off to see if there were any other human colonies, and the implication was there were possibly 2 or 3 more. Did those humans just suddenly ascend too? Must have been pretty confusing for them.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Astroman posted:

A.L.I.E. did nothing wrong.

As far as ALIE vs Alien ascension, I think the jury will always be out. We just have the alien avatar's word that this is really cool for people. Describing it as they people are "sort of alive" and "one with them" and "at peace and will never know pain or death" could also be construed as really creepy and might entail a borgification and loss of personal consciousness and individuality. It's another great thing to debate after the show--which is the better ending: alien transcendence, ALIE Matrix heaven where you can wish for whatever you want and live in an idealized 21st century future city, or Clarke and a few people living and dying free but human?

My biggest problem with ALIE matrix heaven is that eventually the machines running it will break down and then what.

Alien heaven seems to be forever. Or at least it's been running for a couple thousand years. And you can always leave if you get bored or whatever.

Living and dying free is definitely the shittiest ending imo. Alien > ALIE > Clarke.

Astroman posted:

One final thought: I also am reminded that Russell and the Primes were ready to take the ship and gently caress off to see if there were any other human colonies, and the implication was there were possibly 2 or 3 more. Did those humans just suddenly ascend too? Must have been pretty confusing for them.

Probably lol. Just going about your daily routine and then suddenly you are poofed into alien paradise.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Personally I don't think Cadogan would have passed. The judge didn't seem super thrilled when she asked about how his religion downplayed stuff like love. Also his narrow minded obsession with transcendence doesn't seem like something the aliens would judge as useful to add to their collective.

Sammus
Nov 30, 2005



I liked the ending, but I was hoping that Clark was going to the last human left in the universe.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

So if you de-ascend you do get a new body? I think Emori got a new body. Maybe Raven did too and isn't a cripple anymore.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



If Becca's mind drive technology can properly store souls like they did with Emori, in hindsight, the City of Light was the way to go. I'm sure Cadogan would have figured out the code eventually on his own and transcended them all.

Also, if the Flame wasn't destroyed, would all the Commanders have transcended, or would it be one composite Commander? If Raven picks up all the pieces of the Flame and repairs it, can Lexa transcend and then come back down to be with Clarke?

So many questions posed because Emori survived!

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





oh jay posted:

If Becca's mind drive technology can properly store souls like they did with Emori, in hindsight, the City of Light was the way to go. I'm sure Cadogan would have figured out the code eventually on his own and transcended them all.

Also, if the Flame wasn't destroyed, would all the Commanders have transcended, or would it be one composite Commander? If Raven picks up all the pieces of the Flame and repairs it, can Lexa transcend and then come back down to be with Clarke?

So many questions posed because Emori survived!

lol if Russheida is dead but Sheiheda is in alien paradise

And I know it was due to budget limitations, but they had a super tiny army to fight the last war. Cadogan was lucky it wasn't an actual war or he would've been whupped real bad.

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012



It wasn't just budget limitations, but also COVID limitations. Something like their last 3 days of shooting had to be 1 day basically. They were clearly missing some in between scenes with things like Gaia and Jordan magically teleporting to and fro.

And apparently there at least one scene of actual substance with Levitt that they didn't have time to film.

https://www.thewrap.com/the-100-bos...-series-finale/

INH5
Dec 17, 2012
Error: file not found.

Astroman posted:

It's amazing where they went from the initial concept. I wonder how long they had this stuff in mind? Easter Egging Cadogan so far back meant they had some idea, but I wonder just how much they planned out?

My guess is that Season 4 is when they came up with the ideas about Second Dawn and the off-world colonies, because they needed to figure out some way that they could continue the show after nuking the world a second time. We know that they didn't have this in mind from "the beginning," because the beginning was that a marketing team came up with the premise (yes, really) and gave it to both JRoth and Kass Morgan, and Morgan's book series went in a completely different direction. I also doubt they had any of the Season 5-7 stuff in mind during the first 3 seasons, because you would think they would have tossed in a mention at some point if they did.

pressedbunny
May 31, 2007

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION~!

he knows...


Astroman posted:

Speaking of which, on that fade to credits, what was that quick overlay of a girl drawing? Was that Madi? Or Clarke in her prison in the first episode? If so does that mean the whole show is Clarke's dream before she was floated?
It's the first shot of Clarke drawing in episode one. I assume they just thew it on there to remind people how far the story has come, otherwise yeah, the only other implication is this was all a story Clarke was making up on her walls. A teenager making up bullshit as they go along certainly does explain the meandering nature of the plots and how Clarke gets to be the main character despite being a total arsehole.

The Walrus
Jul 9, 2002




Fun Shoe

imagine not getting the 100 lol https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-100-ser...im-s-1845242537

oh jay
Oct 15, 2012




Yeah, that showed up on my feed too. I don't understand how someone who seemingly has seen the entire series has such a terrible take. I'm guessing that the writer or editor wanted more clicks so they really leaned into a strained GoT comparison.

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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

Psst! It's me!
The Sinister with the mutant gene.


Yeah gently caress that guy.


Also Clarke would easily defeat Daenerys and all three dragons.

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