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Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Tendai posted:

Can you talk more about what makes a fleece good or bad? Like what is it about the ones that you say are good in the pictures. Purely for my own curiosity!
What I look for in a fleece is that it has a similar texture between colors and from the front to the back of the sheep. Sometimes jacobs have different textures in their black and white fleece, called quilting, and that's something you try to breed away from because it makes it harder for spinners to use. I like longer, open fleeces, where you can practically see the skin in between locks of wool and when they get wet it parts down their spine. Some of mine have less crimp but have longer fleeces and some have really tight, crimpy, curly fleeces but are shorter. Then there's fuzzy wuzzy who basically has no crimp and just has like a fluffy dog coat. What I don't like is a coarse hand (it feels coarse and scratchy to the touch) or really dense fleece where it almost feels spongy because its so closed up.

I'll try to get some fleece close up pictures for examples. JSBA has an album on their fb page about different fleece types and a fact sheet about quilting on their website. "Good" and "bad" is all subjective and even the coarse fleece has its use. I know a spinner that absolutely hated Pennyroyal's fleece, couldn't tell me enough bad things about it, but Penny has also placed in two shows so clearly it isn't an objectively terrible fleece. It just comes down to what people like individually.


Khizan posted:

Did you have a Winston before? I think I remember one that got made into sausage for being an rear end in a top hat, but I may be confused with another W name.

That was Windsor that carried a genetic issue that resulted in (literally) piles of dead lambs and was an rear end in a top hat and was delicious. I still have his pelt.

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Chaosfeather
Nov 4, 2008



I love your animals and your posts and if I wasn't poor suburb scum with no farm experience I'd say I'd be convinced to try to raise a handful of Jacob's.

So I will live vicariously through you and your adorable critters.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland and had never really interacted with sheep before we got our first ones a decade ago and it turned out alright. I did a lot of reading and learning, and I still do a lot of reading and learning. It's worth it though. Sheep are good creatures and I like them.

Maigius
Jun 29, 2013

THUNDERDOME LOSER


Is Spartan you're first sheep with five horns?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Instant Jellyfish posted:

That was Windsor that carried a genetic issue that resulted in (literally) piles of dead lambs and was an rear end in a top hat and was delicious. I still have his pelt.

There's no greater spice to a dish than revenge .

Tendai
Mar 16, 2007

"When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber."



Grimey Drawer

Thank you for the fleece explanation! I have done some very crap spinning attempts, it's cool to hear how you evaluate the fleece on the hoof

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Maigius posted:

Is Spartan you're first sheep with five horns?

Nope, but he might be my first ram with 5 horns and is definitely the first with fully differentiated 5 horns (at least for now, they may still fuse).

Hard to see but Daphne has 3 horns on her right side. The two laterals are just fused together and it just looks like one horn with a seam in it.


If you want to see some gnarly horns, JSBA just put out a horn fact sheet with some cool examples of fused horns and 5 horn animals. Plus some information on horn genetics which is interesting.

Fun fact: one of the big breeders (actually the guy I bought Windsor, of freezer fame, from) used to be a biologist at UC Davis and did an experiment where he created identical twin jacobs by splitting an embryo in two and implanting the two new embryos in different sheep to see if the spots were identical. Turns out that the spot and horns were similar but not identical.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009



That breed standard bit is absolutely fascinating - it's never occurred to me before that humans would try to breed gendered characteristics into animals and it makes me wonder just how much sex differentiation in domestic breeds is man made.

MarsDragon
Apr 27, 2010

"You've all learned something very important here: there are things in this world you just can't change!"

Oh hey, speaking of fleeces, I'm the goon that bought one a few years back. I missed that there was a new thread, so I got to spend a couple lovely hours catching up with all the sheep!

This is what the fleece turned into:


It really was lovely to work with; Instant Jellyfish has some great sheep. I don't think I want to try and process fleece myself anymore, but I'll make an exception for Jacobs.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Organza Quiz posted:

That breed standard bit is absolutely fascinating - it's never occurred to me before that humans would try to breed gendered characteristics into animals and it makes me wonder just how much sex differentiation in domestic breeds is man made.

Most of the differences between rams and ewes in terms of the standard are just because the ram has so much larger of an impact on the flock. A ewe may have 3 lambs a year at very most, a ram could have dozens or even hundreds of lambs every year. So the rules are stricter for rams so it leads to a higher quality of ram being selected to be herdsires. Jacobs are interesting because they have an open studbook and an inspection process for every sheep submitted for registration. If you have a sheep of unknown origin but it looks like a jacob it can be registered as a jacob. Alternatively if you have a jacob from registered parents and it doesn't look like a jacob it can be rejected and not registered.


MarsDragon posted:

Oh hey, speaking of fleeces, I'm the goon that bought one a few years back. I missed that there was a new thread, so I got to spend a couple lovely hours catching up with all the sheep!

This is what the fleece turned into:


It really was lovely to work with; Instant Jellyfish has some great sheep. I don't think I want to try and process fleece myself anymore, but I'll make an exception for Jacobs.

Thanks for sharing! I love seeing what people do with our yarn and wool, especially the jacob because there are so many different things you can do with it.

This year has been frustrating because we busted our asses last year and got stuff back from the mill in time for shows this year and they were all cancelled. So we're sitting on a lot of nice stuff. Once we get to a show people are going to be so crazy for yarn it should move well its just the waiting that's hard. Sheep don't stop eating when sales are slow!

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009



That makes total sense, I was talking about them outright saying jacob rams with "feminine" horns aren't allowed and jacob ewes with "feminine" horns are encouraged.

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Organza Quiz posted:

That makes total sense, I was talking about them outright saying jacob rams with "feminine" horns aren't allowed and jacob ewes with "feminine" horns are encouraged.

Oh!

What they mean by that, but arenít phrasing well, is that rams should have thick, sturdy horns because horn growth is impacted by testosterone production. A ram with thin, reedy horns either has low testosterone, making him a poor breeding prospect, or has a polled (hornless) breed mixed in and isnít a true Jacob.

Alternatively a ewe with thick, ram-like horns might be a freemartin or have another hormonal problem that could make her a poor breeder. I think they are just describing sexual dimorphism naturally present in the species, personally, rather than encouraging a divide that isnít there. Wild mouflons and mountain sheep are definitely sexually dimorphic and in many breeds the horned gene doesnít even allow for horns in XX individuals.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 11, 2012

This particularly rapid unintelligible patter isn't generally heard, and if it is, it doesn't matter.





I love the word "freemartin". First saw in Brave New World.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009



Ah, that is reassuring! It was indeed just the word feminine throwing me off since that makes it sound like they're trying to judge sheep by human beauty standards. Good to know they're using it in terms of sheep standards.

McSharpie
Nov 11, 2005
Hotter than Garrison Keillor, but just a little bit.

I got confused about the perspective here and thought the lamb was balancing a branch on their head. Doh.

What's the difference between M and S in the lamb's registration(?) numbers? Are those for different lines?

Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



McSharpie posted:

I got confused about the perspective here and thought the lamb was balancing a branch on their head. Doh.

What's the difference between M and S in the lamb's registration(?) numbers? Are those for different lines?

That's to help me keep track of who their dads were. S for Sweetgrass Ashe, M for Marsh Mallo Montgomery. They all have names, scrapie/official ID numbers, and then farm ID numbers. So Holly will be registered as Roving Holly (Roving Acres is my farm name), her scrapie/federal ID number is OH6608 (this is my premise ID number) 2001 (20 for 2020, 01 because she's the first lamb), her farm ID number is 20M01 because she was sired by Monty. That way if anything happens to me people could use their farm tag number to figure out who is related to which ram if they wanted to sell breeding groups or needed to match animals to their paperwork. Everyone has different ways of picking farm IDs and scrapie individual numbers, that's just what I do.

Carbon Thief
Oct 11, 2009

Diamonds aren't the only things that are forever.


Ahh, so many great lambs! I just found this year's thread and realized I'd never posted my tattoo inspired by your Jacobs.



Still needs colour, but obviously no one's tattooing lately.

ILL Machina
Mar 25, 2004

Glory to Arstotzka!

Carbon Thief posted:

Ahh, so many great lambs! I just found this year's thread and realized I'd never posted my tattoo inspired by your Jacobs.



Still needs colour, but obviously no one's tattooing lately.



awesome

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Instant Jellyfish
Jul 3, 2007

Actually not a fish.



Carbon Thief posted:

Ahh, so many great lambs! I just found this year's thread and realized I'd never posted my tattoo inspired by your Jacobs.



Still needs colour, but obviously no one's tattooing lately.

That's so awesome and I'm very jealous! Some day I will put money away for an awesome jacob tattoo instead of just buying more sheep and sheep supplies.

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