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You're right. That's a better description of Saul. I oversimplified it.
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Apr 15, 2019 04:11
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Ceiling fan posted:You're right. That's a better description of Saul. I oversimplified it. I think you're both right, depending. From the background reading I did setting up this thread, it's pretty clear Stout wrote one draft and was done, bam, and there are definitely some stories where he kinda wrote himself into a corner and then at the end produces Saul like a magician's trick to solve the plot. On the other hand there are definitely stories where the Saul reveal is clearly planned from the beginning. Little of column A, little of column B. One thing I really liked about the TV show is that they make it much more overtly clear that both Saul and Lon Cohen are jewish.
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Apr 15, 2019 04:15
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Yeah, like giving the "schlampick" line to the poker game instead of Archie and Fritz.
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Apr 15, 2019 18:26
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In Wolfe’s world, a lot of Archie’s work isn’t detective work - it’s cataloguing the orchids, running the household finances, and undertaking a lot of running around town for Wolfe (sometimes ingredients for Fritz even). All of these are things that Nero regards as or more important as the detective work, which merely sustains the real business of the household, which is living well and managing orchids and food. Saul isn’t desirable for that. Archie also has insecurities, which colours his perception of Saul, and there are several occasions in the books where he succeeds where Saul has failed. I think an important feature of the books is while nominally Archie works for Wolfe in effect they are partners, and Archie’s autonomy, ability to persuade and manage Wolfe, willingness to take risks and initiative, and flexibility in many situations outweigh Saul’s utility. There are many situations where Archie pushes back against authority figures (most usually police but also the wealthy and powerful) in a way that Saul presumably wouldn’t, which is something Wolfe values.
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Apr 15, 2019 22:42
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This was my first Nero Wolfe and I can't help but imagine him as Sydney Greenstreet from The Maltese Falcon.
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Apr 21, 2019 01:22
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Robot Wendigo posted:This was my first Nero Wolfe and I can't help but imagine him as Sydney Greenstreet from The Maltese Falcon. That's about right, Wolfe is pretty much Kasper Gutman except with Sam Spade working for him instead of Joel Cairo or Wilmer.
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Apr 21, 2019 04:11
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ulmont posted:That's about right, Wolfe is pretty much Kasper Gutman except with Sam Spade working for him instead of Joel Cairo or Wilmer. And note that the first Nero Wolfe book, Fer-de-Lance, is published only five years after The Maltese Falcon. Though Wolfe would despise Gutman. Taking such foolish risks!
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Apr 21, 2019 04:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Though Wolfe would despise Gutman. Taking such foolish risks! It's either explicitly stated or implied heavily that Nero Wolfe had to take many more risks before hiring Archie Goodwin, though...
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Apr 21, 2019 04:54
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ulmont posted:It's either explicitly stated or implied heavily that Nero Wolfe had to take many more risks before hiring Archie Goodwin, though... I do remember from one of the books (The Black Mountain, maybe?) where Wolfe talked about how he was constantly plunging into danger as a younger man, and that he deliberately put on weight so he would be forced to move slower and think ahead.
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Apr 21, 2019 07:16
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Selachian posted:I do remember from one of the books (The Black Mountain, maybe?) where Wolfe talked about how he was constantly plunging into danger as a younger man, and that he deliberately put on weight so he would be forced to move slower and think ahead.
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Apr 21, 2019 07:51
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Though not always the same one. I recall that at one point an editor insisted on Wolfe being born in the United States, so that got added in alongside his being raised in Montenegro, and then afterwards tacitly ignored.
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Apr 21, 2019 14:56
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Robot Wendigo posted:This was my first Nero Wolfe and I can't help but imagine him as Sydney Greenstreet from The Maltese Falcon. Greenstreet actually played Wolfe in a radio adaptation in the 50s.
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Apr 22, 2019 00:04
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OneTruePecos posted:Greenstreet actually played Wolfe in a radio adaptation in the 50s. Wow. Thanks, everyone, for the Greenstreet insight.
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Apr 22, 2019 00:57
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I'm thinking a nonfiction book for next month. I have a few ideas already but let me know if there's something specific you think should go in the poll.
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Apr 24, 2019 14:38
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Packing for Mars by Mary Roach (or any other of her fun books)
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Apr 24, 2019 15:58
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I'll second that.
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Apr 24, 2019 18:30
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I was going to read Spook soon, so I vote for that, but yeah I'd be down for Mary Roach generally speaking
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Apr 24, 2019 18:40
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https://twitter.com/alloy_dr/status/1121392092440342529
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Apr 25, 2019 13:35
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I'm not an expert but I thought that Thinking Fast and Slow has been a bit savaged by the replicability crisis.
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Apr 26, 2019 02:00
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Sax Solo posted:I'm not an expert but I thought that Thinking Fast and Slow has been a bit savaged by the replicability crisis. Yeah, if we pick that one we'll have to be sure to use the 2nd edition. Gives us something to talk about.
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Apr 26, 2019 02:09
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Just wanted to duck in before the month ends to regret missing discussion, but obviously I'm a big fan of the series.
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May 1, 2019 02:45
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Archie Goodwin posted:Just wanted to duck in before the month ends to regret missing discussion, but obviously I'm a big fan of the series. We still got time to listen! Sit down, have some shad roe with us.
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May 1, 2019 02:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We still got time to listen! Sit down, have some shad roe with us. I'm more likely to duck around the corner to the diner for some corned beef. I enjoy this one, but the the trap always felt a little implausible, though perhaps Stout didn't find it so in its era in Wolfe's class. Preparations for the identity switch are delightful, though. For what it's worth, some of my favorites in the corpus are those where Wolfe is not firmly ensconced in his favorite chair at the center of a web, but rather struggling through circumstances abroad, e.g. driven by his own gustatory cupidity in Too Many Cooks. More opportunities for banter and bluster. At least in this we get the disruption of having to take steps to avoid wiretapping, though the disruption of poor Fritz's space is to be deplored. When does the poor man sleep?
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May 1, 2019 03:15
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https://twitter.com/alloy_dr/status/1123617177016442880
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May 1, 2019 16:57
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