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Pirate Jet posted:Literally where is your evidence that Valve is “taking in money that they do not need” considering they charge the same cut as everyone except Epic while carrying significantly more features. App stores being free money has been an open secret for a while. XBox and Playstation spend hundreds of millions of dollars on hardware development just to be able to charge that 30% uncontested. No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 18:45
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EGS is flawed but Valve has had this coming since they decided that basically anything can be on Steam. You can ask for 30% when it's a private club, but now that any fool can make cheap trash, If "Cranky Steve's 4K Retina Burning Sex-A-Thon Powered By ClickTeam" can launch the same week as CD Projekt Red and appear alongside their game on the NEW THIS WEEK list, why the gently caress wouldn't you be looking for a post-Steam plan. Business and totally open platforms rarely go together, and in this case the big business of gaming only likes being around the indies that elevate the platform and make them look good. Sony, Nintendo, and now Epic take the position that Hyper Light Drifter and Undertale are okay, but we don't want to sell a $ 600 million dollar game next to your unholy sex fantasy game you built as a science project. People who are trying to make big money ultimately don't want anything to do with libertarian tards who think markets should take a neutral position on products. They want favoritism. They want curation. They want gatekeeping. And all you have to do is look at the world of YouTube/podcasting/etc and the people it's given a platform to in order to see why.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:12
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I assume EGS will be more trashy than steam not less. Steam solved three problems for all but the biggest publishers - digital distribution, payments processing, and exposure. Someone trying to do Steam But Cheaper was inevitable. I don't think this has anything to do with anime smut but apparently anime smut is a big meme about steam (?) because it keeps coming up in these discussions.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:20
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precision posted:"Everyone is doing it" is not a valid argument. No Wave posted:That standard is what is being attacked here. So far even EGS has just kinda stood there without being able to actually make a congruent argument as to why the lower cut is good for the consumer. Instead they just make the whole argument that its "good for the industry". Its bullshit, its good for publishers and their shareholders and nothing else.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:20
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Yes, that money rightfully should go to gaben, not to the companies whose games you buy!
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Apr 10, 2019 19:23
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No Wave posted:Yes, that money rightfully should go to gaben, not to the companies whose games you buy! As long as their client is absolute trash then yes, it should. Becoming a loss leader the way they are doing is poo poo and its why they are getting as much blowback and as little traction in the market. Have a better product, better prices, etc and no one would actually care about the cut publishers are getting
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Apr 10, 2019 19:27
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No Wave posted:I assume EGS will be more trashy than steam not less. EGS is basically an invite-only club at the moment. It'll likely be less trashy because developers see it as sacrificing a chunk of their audience to get better revenues and not share space with trash. Valve's approach a few months ago was that any piece of poo poo game was allowable unless Valve took the completely arbitrary step of declaring it "trolling". They're sort of lucky that was broken by the Rape Day guy who admitted his game had no place on Steam, rather than some 4chan white nationalist trying to exploit the situation and put an Immigrant Shooter Simulator on there to get attention. Because right now any platform that says "anyone can contribute a creation" has to look at what has been normalized lately and what kinds of people are going to want elevation from it.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:27
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No Wave posted:I don't understand why there's so much drama over the EGS. Steam taking 30% of every PC game forever was never going to happen and it just makes valve fat and lazy. It would be dope having another competent digital store client that can rival Steam, but as of right now (and the near future) the EGS is not even close to competing outside of buying up exclusive rights to games.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:32
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No Wave posted:Yes, that money rightfully should go to gaben, not to the companies whose games you buy! Tim Sweeney is worth 7.1 billion dollars. As long as Steam is covering things like friend-based matchmaking, anticheat, support for most modern controllers, hosting costs, etc. etc. then yes, they deserve the same cut that 90% of the industry takes.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:33
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Cao Ni Ma posted:As long as their client is absolute trash then yes, it should. Becoming a loss leader the way they are doing is poo poo and its why they are getting as much blowback and as little traction in the market.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:36
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Cao Ni Ma posted:So far even EGS has just kinda stood there without being able to actually make a congruent argument as to why the lower cut is good for the consumer. Instead they just make the whole argument that its "good for the industry". Its bullshit, its good for publishers and their shareholders and nothing else. facts. These publishers are the ones that will be making the money, and if you're a smaller indie dev you better hope you have some cultural clout with gamers or else you will still flop. Activision and EA just laid off literally hundreds of employees recently and they've been making so much profit, they don't give a poo poo about their devs, marketing staff, support staff, etc.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:39
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No Wave posted:They cannot compete on prices. Steam will remove your game from steam if it is offered at a lower price elsewhere, it is against their TOS. Personally, I would love if this was deemed anti-competitive and was made an antitrust violation. But until then it is functionally impossible to become a competitor to steam without securing title exclusivity. You can become a competitor to steam if you offered a better product. But EGS hasn't this poo poo is mad barebones
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Apr 10, 2019 19:40
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Cao Ni Ma posted:So far even EGS has just kinda stood there without being able to actually make a congruent argument as to why the lower cut is good for the consumer. Instead they just make the whole argument that its "good for the industry". Its bullshit, its good for publishers and their shareholders and nothing else. It is absolutely better for developers than Steam.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:42
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I installed it for Satisfactory and don't regret it, but no way is it going to be replacing Steam for me anytime soon, or realistically ever, given how much I am already invested in that storefront.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:42
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25% more revenue per game would make a huge difference for game studios. I mean 25% more revenue would make a huge difference in any industry.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 19:44
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I love your optimism that publishers won't randomly gently caress over their studios despite breaking records in annual profits every single year but yeah man go off
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Apr 10, 2019 19:53
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No Wave posted:They cannot compete on prices. Steam will remove your game from steam if it is offered at a lower price elsewhere, it is against their TOS. Personally, I would love if this was deemed anti-competitive and was made an antitrust violation. But until then it is functionally impossible to become a competitor to steam without securing title exclusivity. https://store.steampowered.com/app/6860/Hitman_Blood_Money/ https://www.gog.com/game/hitman_blood_money 
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Apr 10, 2019 19:53
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I was going to check out EGS for one of the free games but all of my normal usernames were taken, which was too much of an annoyance for me for a free game. I'm poor and don't give a gently caress about developer/publisher cuts, just give me a good service with good deals.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:55
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Pirate Jet posted:https://store.steampowered.com/app/6860/Hitman_Blood_Money/
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Apr 10, 2019 19:58
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I love your optimism that publishers won't randomly gently caress over their studios despite breaking records in annual profits every single year but yeah man go off Please tell me who is secretly publishing for Supergiant Games
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Apr 10, 2019 19:58
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Corporations are greedy, but not valve! Valve is too rich to be greedy. we have to make sure they stay rich.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:01
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Valve is poo poo because its libertarian structure and culture makes the company a flaming shitshow and they let utter trash fill up their storefront. Epic is poo poo because they have some shady poo poo going down with TenCent and their exclusivity deals, but I'll admit there's something pure about how ruthlessly capitalistic they're being in trying to prop up their storefront. Steam is good because it has a lot of handy features EGS doesn't have, like a wishlist, reviews, and a goddamn shopping cart because why the gently caress would you release a goddamn storefront without a loving shopping cart, but sucks because any rear end in a top hat with a Unity demo and some dickgirl poser models can flood the market with DLC of slightly different colored dicks for said dickgirl poser models and push actually good titles made by people who actually care out of the public eye and into the Otherspace to be lost for generations. I'm pretty good at sniffing out hidden gems on Steam, but I frequently miss out on stuff until I see it recommended here years after release. EGS is good because it provides a curated experience and gives publishers a larger cut I guess, but sucks because it lacks basic-rear end features like a goddamn shopping cart. I don't have anything else to say about it because it doesn't have enough to it to talk about. On the consumer end, Steam wins hands down. It's hard to find good games in the piles of asset flips and SJW murder simulators made by edgelords for edgelords, but it has a bunch of useful features that put it head and shoulders above EGS right now. EGS might get there eventually, but hoo-drat are they off to a dumb start.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:02
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Pylons posted:Please tell me who is secretly publishing for Supergiant Games refer to my previous post: The REAL Goobusters posted:facts. These publishers are the ones that will be making the money, and if you're a smaller indie dev you better hope you have some cultural clout with gamers or else you will still flop. Activision and EA just laid off literally hundreds of employees recently and they've been making so much profit, they don't give a poo poo about their devs, marketing staff, support staff, etc.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:02
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The REAL Goobusters posted:refer to my previous post: Okay, so the smaller cut isn't actually bad for smaller indie developers except in that whiny gamers will throw a shitfit.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:04
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Pylons posted:Okay, so the smaller cut isn't actually bad for smaller indie developers except in that whiny gamers will throw a shitfit. Smaller indie devs still have to compete with AAA titles and being discovered on EGS. Discord recently started and closed their own games store and they mostly had indie titles that no one was buying. Not every indie dev will have a smash hit like Supergiant.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:06
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Smaller indie devs still have to compete with AAA titles and being discovered on EGS. Discovery is much easier on EGS where you don't have to compete against either literal thousands of low-effort unity games or an algorithm that decides your game isn't popular enough to warrant discovery except oops! Valve changed the algorithm and now you're even more hosed! Discord's store failed because they had the same problem the EGS does but with absolutely no solution. Pylons fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 20:07
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Pylons posted:Discovery is much easier on EGS where you don't have to compete against either literal thousands of low-effort unity games or an algorithm that decides your game isn't popular enough to warrant discovery except oops! Valve changed the algorithm and now you're even more hosed! For years people bitched about not being able to get on steam, then steam opened the floodgates and let everyone in and there was a bunch of trash. I see the same thing happening with the EGS. Sure its curated and small now but I don't think it will be like this at all in the future. I'm not defending valve or steam here, they've been really slow and bad at fixing a lot of the issues their store has. But EGS just isn't even near the feature-set that I and many other people use. I think EGS is aiming for publisher and indie cred right now but for me they're providing a bad service.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:10
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No Wave posted:Corporations are greedy, but not valve! Valve is too rich to be greedy. we have to make sure they stay rich. No Wave posted:I don't think the agreement is formally public and I think is made on a game by game basis so I don't know the exact language, but some kinds of sales are I assume exempt (otherwise humble bundle couldnt exist). It is absolutely a part of selling on steam though. You are posting awful smarmy for someone who admits they don’t know what they’re talking about. Epic is richer than Valve. Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Apr 10, 2019 |
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Apr 10, 2019 20:12
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The REAL Goobusters posted:For years people bitched about not being able to get on steam, then steam opened the floodgates and let everyone in and there was a bunch of trash. I see the same thing happening with the EGS. Sure its curated and small now but I don't think it will be like this at all in the future. Because the solution to that was not to just give up and foist the work off onto first the community and then just say any schlub with $100 can put whatever they want up, it was to actually hire people to do the curation, something Valve is loathe to do in basically any circumstance.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:13
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Steam's solution after they opened the flood gates was the curator system. I highly recommend it! I've been following the The Metroid Review https://store.steampowered.com/curator/30503887-The-Metroidvania-Review/ and it provides a quick and easy way to see games in a genre I like with someone with a similar interest. Now I just need to find a similar quality curator for rogue-likes and I'll be set.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:15
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Pirate Jet posted:You are posting awful smarmy for someone who admits they don’t know what they’re talking about.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:15
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Pylons posted:Because the solution to that was not to just give up and foist the work off onto first the community and then just say any schlub with $100 can put whatever they want up, it was to actually hire people to do the curation, something Valve is loathe to do in basically any circumstance. Yes I know. I'm saying eventually they will stop paying people in the future to curate because why do that when we can automate it. I want to be wrong but for this its something I'm very pessimistic about.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:18
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No Wave posted:What I said is accurate, the moron is you. This isnt written on their loving home page. Find a source and quit the name-calling, then. Should be easy to Google even if it’s not on their “loving home page.” Here’s some Steamworks documentation on pricing guidelines that mentions nothing about other storefronts: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/pricing
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Apr 10, 2019 20:18
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The background I have on it is weird. Eternal card game wanted to release a promotion where something was cheaper on their website vs steam, someone in the reddit comments of the announcement thread pointed out that this was against Steam TOS, the lead panicked and had to redo the promotion after he said he checked with steam. I don't know what the relationship really is, if there are special agreements with steam for certain games but not others, etc. If there really is no restriction and we see titles that are seriously just cheaper on Epic, then I guess there was nothing stopping it from happening but I still have no explanation for why CDPR would charge the same for Thronebreaker on Steam as on GoG, or what would be stopping devs from just using Steam for marketing.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:42
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No Wave posted:The background I have on it is weird. Eternal card game wanted to release a promotion where something was cheaper on their website vs steam, someone in the reddit comments of the announcement thread pointed out that this was against Steam TOS, the lead panicked and had to redo the promotion. It seems to me that this applies to Steam keys, but not necessarily to games on Steam released without Steamworks elsewhere. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys
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Apr 10, 2019 20:45
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No Wave posted:The background I have on it is weird. Eternal card game wanted to release a promotion where something was cheaper on their website vs steam, someone in the reddit comments of the announcement thread pointed out that this was against Steam TOS, the lead panicked and had to redo the promotion after he said he checked with steam. sorry but this is just too funny
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Apr 10, 2019 20:50
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Steam doesn't care if a 3rd party key reseller buys steam keys from a developer and then resells them for cheaper than their storefront if the 3rd party reseller is eating the reduced margins. Thats how greenman/cdkeys etc have operated for years
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Apr 10, 2019 20:52
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I mean it was a funny situation. This still all makes no sense to me, and I apologize for being as wrong as I can remember being in the past 24 hours and I'll gently caress off now i guess unless I find some evidence of anything.
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Apr 10, 2019 20:54
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I don't do a lot of PC gaming so I don't have much of a horse in this race, but this seems awfully similar to what's happening with streaming services now. Dozens of storefronts popping up and it's too much of a hassle to juggle credentials/subscriptions so people are just going to start pirating a lot more.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:26
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CharlestonJew posted:I don't do a lot of PC gaming so I don't have much of a horse in this race, but this seems awfully similar to what's happening with streaming services now. Dozens of storefronts popping up and it's too much of a hassle to juggle credentials/subscriptions so people are just going to start pirating a lot more. You’re correct, essentially. I mean, the way I view it is that I’m in my mid-20s with a full time job now, and I don’t feel the need to absolutely get in on the ground floor of the hottest video games like I did when I was younger. If a game launches on EGS exclusively I really don’t mind having to wait another 6-12 months because I just view it as clearing out my schedule for other cool poo poo. I especially hate this argument of “you’re just clicking a different program” because nobody gives a poo poo that Epic is competing with Steam the store, but it is massively irritating that they’re competing with Steam the platform. That’s another friends list I have to manage and add everyone on, that’s another place I store my credit card (and Epic does NOT have a good track record with security,) another login, and if EGS gets really popular I especially don’t want to have to keep track of which games I own on what. It’s also completely ignoring that the PC landscape was already looking bad enough before Epic just plopped their dick on the table, with things split between Steam, Origin, UPlay, Battle.net, Windows Store, and Minecraft and League of Legends had their own things going on, and now Bethesda wants to split into their own thing, and Jeeeeeesus Christ. PC gamers might be too prideful to admit it but the whole reason PC gaming saw a second golden age in the late 2000s/early 2010s is because of Steam and the fact that it brought many of the advantages of consoles to the platform while sacrificing almost none of the advantages of PCs. Imagine if you had to log in to a competitor to Xbox Live for every game you owned on your Bone, and think about how much of a headache that would be.
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Apr 10, 2019 21:42
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