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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




The transformations seem to mainly be the big ideological mission statements of the competing factions. Catch is that I'm still having difficulty figuring out the difference in Keppi and the cops' ideologies. They both seem to be big on revealing your secrets and becoming comfortable with your true self, but one creates kappa zombies while the other destroys them.

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


The cops, appropriately, seem to operate in a darwinistic framework where desire is important, but you'd better actuate your desires in an effective way because if you don't you have no future and you shall be killed and made into a zombie after your death. They are sort of accelerationists, at least right now.

The main characters are right now full into self repression, even though they are harmed by it. Their reaction to the kappa zombies is basically a projection of their own fear and shame. A further irony is that so far they only succeed in the Kappa zombie fights because of the aggressive actions of the zombies themselves...

It's not clear to me what the goals and roles of the Prince and the real Sara is. There's maybe some kind of reference to commercialism, from all the boxes, and the monetisation of the kids' desires. Though each of their desires are intangible, the kappa branded boxes make them into physical things. Perhaps they represent capitalism in general, or stuff like Facebook or Twitter. It doesn't seem like the 'leakage' effect of the Sarazanmai is actually an intentional consequence.

Maybe the cops just represent the cops.

Maybe I'm just talking out my butt

Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Apr 20, 2019

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 8 days!


lessons of Sarazanmai:

1. be gay

2. do crimes

3. ACAB

Hidingo Kojimba
Mar 29, 2010



It could be as simple as the cops being all about acting on and trying to achieve your illicit desires, while the kappa is all about being able to be honest with your desires to those you care about regardless of whether or not you actually achieve the underlying goals. Honestly have no idea at this stage.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


I'm seeing it as the cops are forcing you to act upon the literal interpretation of your desires, like the cat dude pooping on cats because it got in the way of his relationship, but the extraction reveals their true intent, like cat guy just wanting to be loved by his girlfriend.

Also, until this point I hadn't seen any sign of real gayness, only hints at possible gayness, but that kiss at the end seals that deal. The question now is who's Kuji gay for?

We're only 2 episodes in and this is already one hell of a wild ride. It really makes me want to go back an revisit Penguindrum.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Pretty decent writeup on the mythological and historical background of Sarazanmai. In particular, it explains quite a bit about the otter cops.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012




Given it gets something wrong in the first paragraph, I'm not sure how accurate it is about the rest, but it's something to start from.

Lysistrata
Sep 12, 2003
Anyone who truly believes he has friends is a fool.

Finally was able to watch... one thing I really want to know is whether the instances of the cops arresting people who inflict their desires on others is a theme. That would explain so much. Like, iirc, Boxhead got arrested because he was running around naked (except for the implied shibari) with a box on his head in public, no? And Cattalo Bill here was shaving ppl's cats for his fursuit. Is that a theme? Can't tell from two examples, but I'm ready to find out.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


I thought this article was interesting https://shibirerudarou.wordpress.co...-sarazanmai-02/

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Shape Shift With Me


part of me thinks Kazuki's deal is that he's closeted trans and is like "well I GUESS the only way to be a good older brother to Haruka is to dress up as this cute girl! Ugh it's such a burden but I guess I'll have to look like a television idol every day. And go all around the city dressed like a cute girl. And take selfies in girls' clothes! It's a sacrifice but what else can be done?"

Also, Sara-chan's "Goooood moooorning~" is already stuck in my head.

Farg
Nov 19, 2013


Cephas posted:

part of me thinks Kazuki's deal is that he's closeted trans and is like "well I GUESS the only way to be a good older brother to Haruka is to dress up as this cute girl! Ugh it's such a burden but I guess I'll have to look like a television idol every day. And go all around the city dressed like a cute girl. And take selfies in girls' clothes! It's a sacrifice but what else can be done?"

Also, Sara-chan's "Goooood moooorning~" is already stuck in my head.

yeah like, it doesn't seem as if their brother hates them or anything so it doesn't seem like the whole idol thing is necessary for them to connect

Gibbering
May 24, 2014



Farg posted:

yeah like, it doesn't seem as if their brother hates them or anything so it doesn't seem like the whole idol thing is necessary for them to connect

I think it’s more a being unable/unwilling to give of himself. “I want to love, but I want to lie”. “I want to love but I want to take”. It speaks (to me) of wanting love, but not being willing to do what’s necessary to have a healthy love - honesty and generosity of oneself to another.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE


Fun Shoe

I finally watched it and here's my take: toxic masculinity.

You can see it in Kazuki's feigned apathy for Haruka's interests. Boys don't get to display enthusiasm or affection (or like idols, for that matter), so Kazuki can only express his love for his brother through acts of caretaking he won't admit to Haruka's face. So he adopts a girl's identity where it's acceptable to be cutesy and give and receive the kind of attention that doesn't fit with his image of boyhood, and emphasizes the cat as a proxy for doting on a person, and then ends up putting too much focus on the indirect symbols instead of the actual person.

The obvious irony is Haruka himself seems entirely free from gender conformism and clearly wants Kazuki to relate as is, so it's all in Kazuki's head. I imagine we'll get further into Haruka's worldview and how Kazuki relates to it at some point.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


https://twitter.com/Anime/status/11...7535230976?s=19

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


quote:

Ikuhara also mentioned with a laugh that he was surprised that nobody in the staff stopped him. "Even as I was telling people, 'This is how we're doing this,' I was thinking, 'Okay, somebody is definitely going to call me out on this.' But nobody did.

What a lad

BaDandy
Apr 3, 2013

"This taste...

is the taste of a liar!"


This man made Revolutionary Girl Utena and is surprised that no one has stopped him yet.

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 8 days!


enta got trolled pretty hard

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Jeez poor Enta.

I wonder if Kazuki actually received the Sarazanmai leak or not.

Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012



Well, that explains a lot.

Gibbering
May 24, 2014



I'm a bit suspect about the mention about The Little Prince given how that story ends.

RottenK
Feb 17, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 8 days!


Fangz posted:

Jeez poor Enta.

I wonder if Kazuki actually received the Sarazanmai leak or not.

would be strange if he didn't, the whole point of those leaks seem to be forcing the characters to reveal something about themselves to the rest of the group

i think the part where Kazuki assumed that it was something that Enta did on a dare wasn't part of his hallucination

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



I'm glad it's not just going to be Kazuki getting owned by the leaks every time.

coronatae
Oct 14, 2012



Enta's imagine spots gave me powerful Oginome Ringo vibes.

Loved the little detail of Toi doing katana maintenance on his ruler.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


I'm definitely dreading where the show is going with Haru and all the details

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Cao Ni Ma posted:

I'm definitely dreading where the show is going with Haru and all the details

Does make Kazuki's behaviour rather more sympathetic if he's trying to be a one-boy Make-A-Wish Foundation for his dying kid brother.

Gibbering
May 24, 2014



I don’t know what’s making me think this, but I halfway suspect Haruka totally knows what’s up with Kazuki and is just going along with it for... undisclosed reasons, I guess. He’s worried about his brother and wants to support him even if it’s “Yes, big brother, you’re definitely Sara.” It seems extra right to have a doubly unnecessary crossdressing scheme where each brother thinks they’re fooling the other out of misplaced good intentions.

Gibbering fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Apr 26, 2019

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


what two syllable word are they going to use for next episode's desire?

チンポ チンポ

Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Apr 26, 2019

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies


Cao Ni Ma posted:

what two syllable word are they going to use for next episode's desire?

チンポ チンポ

Judging by the Toi segment of the released single of that song, the answer is soba

e: how that relates to the grow-op/yakuza thing he has going is going to be the highlight of the episode I'm sure

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


Mister Olympus posted:

Judging by the Toi segment of the released single of that song, the answer is soba

e: how that relates to the grow-op/yakuza thing he has going is going to be the highlight of the episode I'm sure

Well thats easy to figure out then.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Shape Shift With Me




the year of moé little brothers is in

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies


Cao Ni Ma posted:

Well thats easy to figure out then.

I'm also interested in what sort of absurd contrived situation will cause Kazuki to be unable to take a selfie with it

AnoHito
May 8, 2014



Mister Olympus posted:

I'm also interested in what sort of absurd contrived situation will cause Kazuki to be unable to take a selfie with it

Probably Toi trying to stab him again.

He really doesn't have time for any of the other two boys' poo poo...

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Caphi posted:

I finally watched it and here's my take: toxic masculinity.

You can see it in Kazuki's feigned apathy for Haruka's interests. Boys don't get to display enthusiasm or affection (or like idols, for that matter), so Kazuki can only express his love for his brother through acts of caretaking he won't admit to Haruka's face. So he adopts a girl's identity where it's acceptable to be cutesy and give and receive the kind of attention that doesn't fit with his image of boyhood, and emphasizes the cat as a proxy for doting on a person, and then ends up putting too much focus on the indirect symbols instead of the actual person.

The obvious irony is Haruka himself seems entirely free from gender conformism and clearly wants Kazuki to relate as is, so it's all in Kazuki's head. I imagine we'll get further into Haruka's worldview and how Kazuki relates to it at some point.

I mean it's certainly an element of gender but you're totally misunderstanding what toxic masculinity is. It's really the exact I verse of that. He's trying to suppress his masculinity to connect with his little brother. Now whether that's only because his brother's TV idol is a girl or because he's closet trans or something else, I'm not sure yet.

But I do know this. The only time Kazuki is willing to be emotionally outgoing is when he's dressed up as Sara. Whenever he's merely Kazuki, he only displays the bare minimum of emotion needed to get by. We learned from this episode that he used to be a lot more outgoing between laughing a lot more and doing that weird pose with Enta. There's still some missing pieces here surrounding Haruka's past and the brothers' relationship, so we don't know what triggered the change.


So the bad guy cops and their org leader are all translated as saying 'otter' multiple times. What's the significance of otters in folklore in relation to kappa?

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


it might just be a pun. Otter - Kawauso. River lie? Kappa itself is a portmanteau of river child

Also if you hear the cop song, they remove the wa sound from kawauso in the end part going Kauso-iya!

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Well there's the thing that otters like to balance stones on their heads and people seeing that is probably where the legends of kappa come from.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




ViggyNash posted:

I mean it's certainly an element of gender but you're totally misunderstanding what toxic masculinity is. It's really the exact I verse of that. He's trying to suppress his masculinity to connect with his little brother. Now whether that's only because his brother's TV idol is a girl or because he's closet trans or something else, I'm not sure yet.

But I do know this. The only time Kazuki is willing to be emotionally outgoing is when he's dressed up as Sara. Whenever he's merely Kazuki, he only displays the bare minimum of emotion needed to get by. We learned from this episode that he used to be a lot more outgoing between laughing a lot more and doing that weird pose with Enta. There's still some missing pieces here surrounding Haruka's past and the brothers' relationship, so we don't know what triggered the change.


So the bad guy cops and their org leader are all translated as saying 'otter' multiple times. What's the significance of otters in folklore in relation to kappa?

The kawauso is a river-dwelling trickster yokai that is believed in a couple of Japanese prefectures to be related to the kappa (and one book of folklore suggests that especially old otters eventually become kappas.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012


Darth Walrus posted:

The kawauso is a river-dwelling trickster yokai that is believed in a couple of Japanese prefectures to be related to the kappa (and one book of folklore suggests that especially old otters eventually become kappas.

drat, they had some dark takes on otters.

But there's no hints as to what Ikuhara might be going for. The closest I think is the soul sucking myth, since the cops are extracting each person's desires, which removes them from existence entirely.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010


The otters themselves were more like trickster spirits, not really violent like kappas were.

The rolls are reversed in this case, the protagonists are playing the yokai thats usually seen as very violent while the apparent villains are playing the generally harmless one.

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Maera Sior
Jan 5, 2012



Can someone explain what the otter puns in Japanese were at the end of the last episode? Right now all I got is that maybe the cops are otters in human form as an extension of some of the myths.

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