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PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

Yes, it's like a lava lamp.



Wasn't the explanation just "this island is magic" though?

I thought people were just really dissatisfied with that (even though it's kind of obvious by the end of season 1 that was going to be the only explanation, and why I stopped watching).

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WSAENOTSOCK
Apr 13, 2002


PittTheElder posted:

Wasn't the explanation just "this island is magic" though?
If you want to make it sound dumb, sure. The Island houses the source of life, death, and rebirth in the universe. The fact that nobody had all of the information was the entire point because the show was explicitly, from the very beginning, about the relationship between science and faith.

That whole business of entering the numbers in Season 2 because you were told to do so but not knowing if it was real was a microcosm of the the entire show and the Island's mythology.

No character in the show learns entirely what the island is, but the viewers of the show did, but since there wasn't a scene where a character finds out (coupled with people being really bad at watching things), people think the question was never answered.

People also think it was loving purgatory because ABC put footage of the crashed plane over the end credits of the finale and doomed me to a lifetime of correcting people's misinformation in threads about other shows that have a mystery box element to them.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





Itís time, btw

https://twitter.com/getFANDOM/statu...341443224690689

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005





It rules that the ending he gave D&D bombed so hard he had to scrap the zero pages he wrote so far.

SunshineDanceParty
Feb 7, 2006

One Road. Two Friends. One Ass.


WSAENOTSOCK posted:

If you want to make it sound dumb, sure. The Island houses the source of life, death, and rebirth in the universe. The fact that nobody had all of the information was the entire point because the show was explicitly, from the very beginning, about the relationship between science and faith.

That whole business of entering the numbers in Season 2 because you were told to do so but not knowing if it was real was a microcosm of the the entire show and the Island's mythology.

No character in the show learns entirely what the island is, but the viewers of the show did, but since there wasn't a scene where a character finds out (coupled with people being really bad at watching things), people think the question was never answered.

People also think it was loving purgatory because ABC put footage of the crashed plane over the end credits of the finale and doomed me to a lifetime of correcting people's misinformation in threads about other shows that have a mystery box element to them.


Lost is an interesting show in the history of television and engagement with the audience. I think there was an assumption that the viewers would pick up on things because they were discussing it online so fervently. A lot of them were really honed in on a few aspects though, and dismissed elements of the story as pointless or filler.

So many people thinking it was purgatory after the final episode is still baffling though. They stare at the camera and explain it.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME


I don't even care anymore.

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...





Haha we got im now!! Dead to rights!!!!

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

If he can't finish it during a several month lockdown he aint finishing it.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


Bip Roberts posted:

It rules that the ending he gave D&D bombed so hard he had to scrap the zero pages he wrote so far.

I think the ending he gave them works fine if you actually put all the pieces in place, which they didn't bother to do in the show.

Like the suggestion before that fAegon would take kings landing and everyone would love him - then Dany went mad and burned it to the ground - makes so much more sense than what we got in the show.

WSAENOTSOCK
Apr 13, 2002


Immediately after the finale, I mused that were you to describe the events to me, just as dry facts, I would think they were absolutely awesome and a totally fitting ending.

It's a funny joke being absolutely butchered by an unfunny person repeating it, half-remembered, years later, and missing all of its connective tissue.

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

I think the point of no return was the battle of winterfell, because they could have made an extremely cool version of it where everyone doesn't act like a complete moron and their sound decisions and coherent strategies still fail to stop the army of the dead

but they chose not to for the sake of like ... three cool visuals

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004



Was that the climactic battle they shot entirely in the dark, in which I could barely see anything in because I didn't have a newer flatscreen with perfectly balanced and neutral blacks? Because gently caress that episode.

DorianGravy
Sep 12, 2007



I think the final season would have been a lot better with a bit more time to breathe. Spread it over two seasons, give some more characterization (especially for Daenerys, to give her a better reason to do what she does), and I think people would have been a lot more satisfied. I really liked the episode where Brienne gets knighted, but all of the rest were in too much of a hurry.

Was there a particular reason to wrap things up that season? The show was still an audience and critical favorite, and I assume it was still making a lot of money. If anything, I thought the people in charge would want more seasons, not less.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006



kaworu posted:

Was that the climactic battle they shot entirely in the dark, in which I could barely see anything in because I didn't have a newer flatscreen with perfectly balanced and neutral blacks? Because gently caress that episode.

The showrunners then lectured people to buy more expensive TVs if they couldn't figure out what was going on.

whowhatwhere
Mar 15, 2010

Chu?

DorianGravy posted:

I think the final season would have been a lot better with a bit more time to breathe. Spread it over two seasons, give some more characterization (especially for Daenerys, to give her a better reason to do what she does), and I think people would have been a lot more satisfied. I really liked the episode where Brienne gets knighted, but all of the rest were in too much of a hurry.

Was there a particular reason to wrap things up that season? The show was still an audience and critical favorite, and I assume it was still making a lot of money. If anything, I thought the people in charge would want more seasons, not less.

They were burned out (I don't think this has been stated, but it's gotta be an incredibly time consuming and stressful job to manage all the logistics of the most expensive tv show on earth and they'd been doing it for eight+ years), had a huge Netflix deal and a star wars trilogy to work on. So they insisted that it be wrapped up despite HBO desperately trying to keep them making the show...which probably cost them the star wars deal.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


I poo poo you not that I can't help but wonder at all the bullshit "foreshadowing" we got in S7, the things subtly retconned (Jon went from bending the knee because he believed in Dany to "well I did it cause we need her help"), and how shocked and disgusted all the actors were, and how they "implied" Daenerys's resurrection but didn't show it, if the endgame was that D&D had an ending planned out but HBO said "no it's not CoNtRoVeRsIaL enough make it CoNtRoVeRsIaL" and they all just said "gently caress it, here you go."

Like seriously they paid Lena Heady a godly sum to just sit around and drink wine and die. They paid Matthew Bellamy a presumably large sum to make a song all about "bring her back" with the goddamn resurrection prayer, and then... nobody's brought back. They had to have known that this ending was garbage, given that by all accounts the actors knew it even.

I really want someone to go behind the scenes to figure out exactly who, what, when, where, and why the final season(s) became such a colossal clusterfuck and figure out who is to blame.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new wallpaper tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Season 8 is great as long as you only watch the first 2 episodes.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004

Eh.


whowhatwhere posted:

They were burned out (I don't think this has been stated, but it's gotta be an incredibly time consuming and stressful job to manage all the logistics of the most expensive tv show on earth and they'd been doing it for eight+ years), had a huge Netflix deal and a star wars trilogy to work on. So they insisted that it be wrapped up despite HBO desperately trying to keep them making the show...which probably cost them the star wars deal.

I think they got the Netflix deal after Disney started getting cold feet and gave them the Colin Trevorrow treatment. IIRC, they were in a big hurry to finish GoT so they could start working on both Star Wars and their next (at the time) project for HBO, which was their "what if the South won the Civil War" slavery fanfic show. So I think how it went down was HBO got skittish about airing such a show in the age of Trump and decided not to go ahead with it, GoT's final season made everyone retroactively hate the show, and Disney decided that they didn't need the next SW trilogy being described as "from the guys who killed Game of Thrones". Netflix snapped them up because they'll desperate for new content and will air any loving thing, even if it's from the guys who killed Game of Thrones.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

They shoulda done ten or so full seasons and not cut out poo poo that seems vital to the books' ending which they still used.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I mean it's not like GRRM knows how to get to the ending either

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Groovelord Neato posted:

They shoulda done ten or so full seasons and not cut out poo poo that seems vital to the books' ending which they still used.

I think that is a big deal of why the final season didn't make much sense. For example, in the books Varys is never on tema Dany but tries to install his fake Aegon on the throne so all his actions are consistent and make sense. But in the show he tries to kill Dany, then he tries to help her before finally trying to kill her again.

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

DorianGravy posted:

I think the final season would have been a lot better with a bit more time to breathe. Spread it over two seasons, give some more characterization (especially for Daenerys, to give her a better reason to do what she does), and I think people would have been a lot more satisfied. I really liked the episode where Brienne gets knighted, but all of the rest were in too much of a hurry.

"A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" is a legitimately good episode and probably the last time GoT was a quality show

BB2K
Oct 9, 2012


a knight of the seven kingdoms tricked me into thinking the rest of the season might actually be actually good

drat was i wrong

i also am not sure how it would hold up after seeing the third episode, because it really felt like everyone was about to die in that episode, and then like, no one did?

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

Alhazred posted:

I think that is a big deal of why the final season didn't make much sense. For example, in the books Varys is never on tema Dany but tries to install his fake Aegon on the throne so all his actions are consistent and make sense. But in the show he tries to kill Dany, then he tries to help her before finally trying to kill her again.

Cutting out new poo poo because you wanna wrap things up is fine (though excising the Manderly plot will always be stupid considering nothing happened in season 5 and they left in "the North remembers") but you gotta change your ending and the lead up to it so it makes sense. Cutting out the phony Aegeon makes Daenerys going nutty make no sense and like you said makes Varys's plot make no sense.

Van Dis
Jun 19, 2004


A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is not a good episode. The entire thing is just the wages of having a million unresolved plot lines i.e. the requisite conversations between characters that have not had a chance to talk to each other. That wouldn't be a bad thing if the conversations were written well and the characters behaved believably, but woof, it's bad. Some of it is perfunctory, like Jamie's not-quite-pardoning or Dany getting angry at Tyrion and then Jorah talking her out of it. Some of it drags on, like the four distinct fireplace scenes (that was especially bad, talk about a failure of editing). None of it leaves the impression that the writers are doing anything except trying to clumsily get pieces into place, because there are no consequences to anything, as is tradition for the show. That continues in the next episode, as all of the characters the episode sets up to die survive the battle.

In the service of of an overarching narrative you're supposed to distribute minor resolutions such that they either build up to climax or get resolved BY the climax! This is basic storytelling, and that episode is a good example of how trying to resolve a bunch of stuff before the climax doesn't work.

Van Dis fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Aug 3, 2020

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Pattonesque posted:

"A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" is a legitimately good episode and probably the last time GoT was a quality show

What? No it wasn't. Is this the denial or the bargaining stage? Are you trying to get yourself to a point where the entire last 3 seasons weren't a complete waste of your time.

DorianGravy
Sep 12, 2007



Well I liked it anyway. Brienne was my favorite character and, regardless of how the rest of the show wrapped up, I thought they did a good job with her story. Getting knighted was a satisfying culmination of what she had worked for, and it put a big smile on my face.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

Everything is subject to the needs of intelligence, for geniuses like me. If we actually solve problems, people won't need me and people like me, and this is a travesty without end. You have to squeeze the poor so they know their place, and you fucking commies forget that.


Brienne finally getting knighted was pretty OK. Of all the poo poo going on I think people may have hated that the least?

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

I thought the Dothraki weapons all going out as they charged into the undead was a cool scene. The episode it was in was objectively awful. As was every single other episode of the show since like season 5.

CPFortest
Jun 2, 2009

Did you not pour me out like milk, and curdle me like cheese?


I think the white walker resolution would've felt less anticlimatic if all of the Beyond the Wall stuff happened right before it instead of getting sandwiched into Season 7's climax. Stuff like Dany executing the Tarly's, Arya killing the Freys, should've been the set up for the final battle at King's Landing.

The other big problem is that so much of the ending hinged around Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and Cersei's choices that it means that other characters have their climatic moments and/or decisions revolve around the preceding four in odd ways, like Jaime's whiplash in returning to Cersei, Arya killing the Night King, Sansa destroying the alliance between Tyrion, Jon, and Dany, and Varys' changing allegiances. Arya and Sansa in particular reeks of them needing something to do otherwise they'd be as extraneous to the endgame as Davos or Sam.

Qwertycoatl
Dec 31, 2008



Funky See Funky Do posted:

I thought the Dothraki weapons all going out as they charged into the undead was a cool scene. The episode it was in was objectively awful. As was every single other episode of the show since like season 5.

It was a cool scene. Part of the problem by the end was that they had a bunch of cool scenes they wanted to put in but could only force them into the plot by having people act like idiots all the time

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


Irony Be My Shield posted:

I mean it's not like GRRM knows how to get to the ending either

GRRMs issue is writing his characters and then going "Actually they'd probably do this too", then going down that route
Over and over

I think he knows where he wants to go with the ending but he's too busy trying to fill in every single gap in every single character's story as he sees it.

Hexel
Nov 18, 2011



Of all the travesties of that season, Cersei dying by brick was the worst

Jamie swooping in to die with her was dumb too

COMPAGNIE TOMMY
Jan 24, 2016

If you can look into the seeds of time, and say which grain will grow and which will not...





Hexel posted:

Of all the travesties of that season, Cersei dying by brick was the worst

Jamie swooping in to die with her was dumb too

They werenít even crushed in a cool manner, just slowly surrounded by bricks like itís the cask of amontillado

I was hoping a giant would have stepped on more people tbh

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004
https://fi.somethingawful.com/images/avatars/navi3.jpg


Sky Shadowing posted:

They paid Matthew Bellamy a presumably large sum to make a song all about "bring her back" with the goddamn resurrection prayer, and then... nobody's brought back.

What song is this and where is it?

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.



The "her" they were referring to was Ros. She was the best. They should have brought her back.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014

... the beats of the dead.

Solice Kirsk posted:

The "her" they were referring to was Ros. She was the best. They should have brought her back.

Killing her off was when I knew the show was truly lost.

Pattonesque
Jul 14, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Qwertycoatl posted:

It was a cool scene. Part of the problem by the end was that they had a bunch of cool scenes they wanted to put in but could only force them into the plot by having people act like idiots all the time

I mean they could have had an equally cool scene with the Dothraki wheeling about and launching fire arrows because if you have the best light cavalry in the world the dumbest thing you could do would be to charge them blindly at an enemy that doesn't have a formation to disrupt or morale to break

cirus
Apr 5, 2011


Pattonesque posted:

I mean they could have had an equally cool scene with the Dothraki wheeling about and launching fire arrows because if you have the best light cavalry in the world the dumbest thing you could do would be to charge them blindly at an enemy that doesn't have a formation to disrupt or morale to break

The scene would have been so much better if the Dothraki had attacked from behind as the walkers got to the fire line. Everyone cheering since the pincer trap was successful and then panicking as the flames go out from both sides. That would have required competent writing and directing though.

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Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.



cirus posted:

The scene would have been so much better if the Dothraki had attacked from behind as the walkers got to the fire line. Everyone cheering since the pincer trap was successful and then panicking as the flames go out from both sides. That would have required competent writing and directing though.

It would also show that regular tactics wouldn't work and they'd have to try more and more desperate measures to stay alive/win. Ultimately that could have culminated in Arya making a last ditch attempt to kill the leader in a "I don't care if I live or die, we're all hosed" moment which might have kinda worked.

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