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Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
BSG's ending had some great character moments but there was an awful lot of "oh wow it's so great we finally made it to Earth! now let's all split up into small groups and never see one another again."

Also the fact that the kid they spent all that time trying to save turned out to have died as a young woman. So like, she lived juuuuust long enough to pop out a few kids and then got murked. Cool!

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That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010

Happy Landfill posted:

https://twitter.com/BaldMove/status/1552689971995103234?s=20&t=QDYrdF4aHBSJvXGOoi1Ktg

I wonder if this is the thing that already leaked, about the White Walker prophecy or whatever. Spoilered just in case

i had my doubts but the Q&A after sold me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3IrMM0jc9M

TyrantWD
Nov 6, 2010
Ignore my doomerism, I don't think better things are possible
I’m guessing it’s going to be the explanation of the race change of House Velaryon. Need to get that out of the way so the racist nerds aren’t writing articles asking how it’s possible for the entire 10 week run.

Between that and the non-white non-orcs in the Lord of the Rings 2 weeks later, internet nerds are going to be frothing at the mouths to a level unseen. /pol/ is going to look sane and tolerant in comparison to the online discussion around these 2 shows.

That DICK!
Sep 28, 2010

TyrantWD posted:

I’m guessing it’s going to be the explanation of the race change of House Velaryon. Need to get that out of the way so the racist nerds aren’t writing articles asking how it’s possible for the entire 10 week run.

Between that and the non-white non-orcs in the Lord of the Rings 2 weeks later, internet nerds are going to be frothing at the mouths to a level unseen. /pol/ is going to look sane and tolerant in comparison to the online discussion around these 2 shows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QunyWALxgps

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

Pattonesque posted:

BSG's ending had some great character moments but there was an awful lot of "oh wow it's so great we finally made it to Earth! now let's all split up into small groups and never see one another again."

Also the fact that the kid they spent all that time trying to save turned out to have died as a young woman. So like, she lived juuuuust long enough to pop out a few kids and then got murked. Cool!

Or that everyone presumably was loving pre-language hominids.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Or that everyone presumably was loving pre-language hominids.

mhmmm

and also "we definitely don't want to create Cylons again so let's throw away *all our technology*. Oops, I died of dysentery!"

Drunk in Space
Dec 1, 2009
Honestly I don't know why they didn't just have them land in Bronze Age Greece, which would have aligned nicely with the various Olympian parallels in Colonial society.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

Drunk in Space posted:

Honestly I don't know why they didn't just have them land in Bronze Age Greece, which would have aligned nicely with the various Olympian parallels in Colonial society.

That was a super common fan theory so I bet they didn’t do it just because of that.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

That was a super common fan theory so I bet they didn’t do it just because of that.

It's because they wanted Hera to be mitochondrial eve, so that we're all a mix of human, colonial and cylon. Because blending cultures doesn't count for some reason.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
Today I learned that Preston Jacobs, a youtuber known for driving himself insane trying to understand all the minutiae in ASOIAF, is still at it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSgnd3clGbg

He once bought a ticket to a dinner with GRRM and went prepped with some question about how his earliest books might have themes that carry over to ASOIAF, and GRRM was like "I dunno man I wrote that book like 45 years ago sounds like you know a lot more about it than me"

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

PostNouveau posted:

Today I learned that Preston Jacobs, a youtuber known for driving himself insane trying to understand all the minutiae in ASOIAF, is still at it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSgnd3clGbg

He once bought a ticket to a dinner with GRRM and went prepped with some question about how his earliest books might have themes that carry over to ASOIAF, and GRRM was like "I dunno man I wrote that book like 45 years ago sounds like you know a lot more about it than me"

real "Darth Icky" vibes

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Pattonesque posted:

mhmmm

and also "we definitely don't want to create Cylons again so let's throw away *all our technology*. Oops, I died of dysentery!"
This didn't happen quite like this, I don't think. They sent their fleet away, but I don't believe they nuked all of their tech. It likely just wore out after a while just like said fleet did. They already couldn't sustain the fleet without the infrastructure of the ships they'd lost.

TOOT BOOT posted:

And then Davos ends up finding him working as a smith in King's Landing. He didn't do a very good job escaping.
Not quite. Davos is the one who put him there because he knew the kid would never be found there, Gendry tells him that he was right about that. Nobody looked at him twice.

Now, if the rest of the show were great, we'd all nod along at that making a kind of sense, but once a show shits the bed this spectacularly, all of that poo poo smelling kind of weird starts to matter a lot more than it otherwise would because it has a cumulative effect, and what we're really judging is how things ended up, then finding every way they got there. And there were a lot of them.

not a bot
Jan 9, 2019
Another dumb thing about the BSG final was that the Earth shown previously was just a fakeout and they found the real Earth by inputting notes from a Bob Dylan song as coordinates for the spaceship to travel to.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
The BSG writers did not in fact have a plan for anything.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

not a bot posted:

Another dumb thing about the BSG final was that the Earth shown previously was just a fakeout and they found the real Earth by inputting notes from a Bob Dylan song as coordinates for the spaceship to travel to.

A lot of it was very dumb in retrospect. But in the moment, watching it, when every single one of those twists hit, I loving loved it. The music, the music a second time, fake-Earth, cylon-bones, yet more music, every twist completely pulled the rug out from under you in how you thought the world worked. It owned.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
:bsg: just couldn’t commit to its own oeuvre: either go with optimism and have the colonials and rebel cylons form a new egalitarian society or commit to the nihilism and have them all fall into the black hole and die.

As Nero Danced
Sep 3, 2009

Alright, let's do this

not a bot posted:

Another dumb thing about the BSG final was that the Earth shown previously was just a fakeout and they found the real Earth by inputting notes from a Bob Dylan song as coordinates for the spaceship to travel to.


So either his music is so foundational to human culture that it becomes a basis for all of our cosmic navigation, or he lives long enough to write about space travel. That never ending tour was no joke

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



not a bot posted:

Another dumb thing about the BSG final was that the Earth shown previously was just a fakeout and they found the real Earth by inputting notes from a Bob Dylan song as coordinates for the spaceship to travel to.

That's not right, is it? I thought they HAD found the real Earth in the season finale of one of the later seasons and it was a burnt out husk, and then they just found a nice habitable planet at the end that they decided to refer to as Earth regardless. I could swear I still remember Adama telling Roslin "they're calling it Earth" and her replying "It's not Earth"

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

Phenotype posted:

That's not right, is it? I thought they HAD found the real Earth in the season finale of one of the later seasons and it was a burnt out husk, and then they just found a nice habitable planet at the end that they decided to refer to as Earth regardless. I could swear I still remember Adama telling Roslin "they're calling it Earth" and her replying "It's not Earth"

Yeah, the first one was the "real Earth" in-universe, not in real life. The second one was the reverse.

Stefan Prodan
Jan 7, 2002

I deeply respect you as a human being... Some day I'm gonna make you *Mrs* Buck Turgidson!


Grimey Drawer

Captain Splendid posted:

Yeah, the first one was the "real Earth" in-universe, not in real life. The second one was the reverse.

yeah the twist is that our real life earth is actually literally Earth 2

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
I stopped watching BSG like mid-season 2 sounds like it got real loving dumb

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

PostNouveau posted:

I stopped watching BSG like mid-season 2 sounds like it got real loving dumb

RIght after the Pegasus arc is the perfect place to stop

not a bot
Jan 9, 2019

Phenotype posted:

That's not right, is it? I thought they HAD found the real Earth in the season finale of one of the later seasons and it was a burnt out husk, and then they just found a nice habitable planet at the end that they decided to refer to as Earth regardless. I could swear I still remember Adama telling Roslin "they're calling it Earth" and her replying "It's not Earth"

Yeah, but that's one of the dumb things. Originally they were supposed to find Earth (the destroyed one, though they didn't know that) with the help of constellations they found about, which are the constellations of western zodiac and it was commented on when they arrived to the destroyed Earth.
Since Earth 2 in the series is the actual Earth we live on, the same constellations are visible as well. And they were guided to Earth 2 by an angel (Starbuck) who used the notes from All Along The Watchtower as coordinates. So Earth 2 was the place they were fated to go to all along, but since the showrunners wrote the story as they went along, it caused problems. At least they didn't have Dave Hill as a writer.

Drunk in Space
Dec 1, 2009

Captain Splendid posted:

RIght after the Pegasus arc is the perfect place to stop

The New Caprica arc was pretty good too, and arguably featured one of the single best scenes in the show (The Adama Maneuver). The overall downturn in quality didn't really start in earnest until shortly after that. Part of the issue for me was Baltar's interminable scenes on the Cylon basestar, and all the squabbling and bickering among the skinjobs. It made them significantly less threatening and enigmatic than they had been before - this was where it really became apparent as well that all the talk of a 'plan' was complete guff.

Baltar's trial at the end of season 3 was great, though, and although some of the Final Five choices were dumb, I thought the build-up to the revelation and the moment itself were well done.

I think the only real high point in season 4, aside from the final battle anyway, was the mutiny. I did also like the first shot of them on the fakeout Earth (or Earth 1 or whatever we're calling it), where everyone looks completely crestfallen except for Tyrol, who just stands there smiling at the grand cosmic joke being played on them.

Drunk in Space fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 30, 2022

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

I can forgive a lot of the dumb poo poo the Colonials do, because they're established, pretty much from the start, as a gang of inveterate gently caress-ups. It's the Cylons not having a plan, after years of "and...They Have a Plan!" that sticks in the craw.

Captain Splendid posted:

RIght after the Pegasus arc is the perfect place to stop

Yeah, but then you miss the trial of gaius baltar and the greatest courtroom drama we've ever seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4qDifIN6nU

Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jul 30, 2022

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Drunk in Space posted:

The New Caprica arc was pretty good too, and arguably featured one of the single best scenes in the show (The Adama Maneuver). The overall downturn in quality didn't really start in earnest until shortly after that. Part of the issue for me was Baltar's interminable scenes on the Cylon basestar, and all the squabbling and bickering among the skinjobs. It made them significantly less threatening and enigmatic than they had been before - this was where it really became apparent as well that all the talk of a 'plan' was complete guff.

Yeah the whole "and they have a plan" thing rings a little hollow, since the eventually established canon Plan was "genocide all the humans", and they mostly seem to be winging it after that doesn't quite go according to... plan. But honestly the hodgepodge thing we got of disagreements among the Cylons is way more interesting imo.

I remember being upset about the religiousness of the ending when I watched it the first time (partly because I was a salty 20 something atheist when it aired), but having watched the show again a few months ago, the ending is great. If anything it's the first few episodes that stick out, they're just so loving all over the place. That and Black Market which is just an unforgivably terrible episode.

SimonChris
Apr 24, 2008

The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.
Grimey Drawer

PittTheElder posted:

That and Black Market which is just an unforgivably terrible episode.

My favorite part of Black Market is when the hooker asks Lee for "another twenty" even though the whole point of the episode is that there is no money and everyone uses the barter system.

Sydney Bottocks
Oct 15, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 61 days!
In BSG trivia: here's a reminder that the lady who played Cally got killed off because she wanted to leave the show in order to devote more time to the NXIVM sex torture cult

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Sydney Bottocks posted:

In BSG trivia: here's a reminder that the lady who played Cally got killed off because she wanted to leave the show in order to devote more time to the NXIVM sex torture cult

Boomer was also somehow included in that.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Alhazred posted:

Boomer was also somehow included in that.

oh goddammit noooooooo

oh good she's a *former* member

Pattonesque fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jul 30, 2022

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Nicki Clyne is still forehead deep sadly. I think she still maintains that Mr. Cult Leader (also possibly her husband? unmarried long time sexual partner) did nothing wrong

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jul 30, 2022

Captain Splendid
Jan 7, 2009

Qu'en pense Caffarelli?

PittTheElder posted:

Nicki Clyne is still forehead deep sadly. I think she still maintains that Mr. Cult Leader (also possibly her husband? unmarried long time sexual partner) did nothing wrong

No, she married Allison Mack

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...

Pork Pro
Also the canon of the show is that Boomer’s kid is mitochondrial Eve.

PostNouveau posted:

I stopped watching BSG like mid-season 2 sounds like it got real loving dumb

Naw, in seriousness, it has some of the best individual episodes of sci fi and an amazing cast. It wasn’t until The Expanse that we got something better in both narrative and production values. The end falls apart and is dumb, but not so dumb that it ruins the previous 60ish hours, for me.

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

:bsg: just couldn’t commit to its own oeuvre: either go with optimism and have the colonials and rebel cylons form a new egalitarian society or commit to the nihilism and have them all fall into the black hole and die.
I believed much the same, even though I loved most of the finale the whole time. But I recently rewatched it, and it's kind of a beautiful story about entire civilizations finally reckoning with their own atrocities and coming to terms with them to tear down their entire world instead of clinging to the past, as doing so had turned them all into vile people (the post-9/11 ruminations of the show played heavy there) and they wanted no further part of it.

The harder they fought to keep things as they were, and to maintain control, the worse they became. The ending lands a lot better on a re-watch. Once you know where the show's going, you can see how they got there even if there definitely wasn't a plan.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Also the canon of the show is that Boomer’s kid is mitochondrial Eve.

Naw, in seriousness, it has some of the best individual episodes of sci fi and an amazing cast. It wasn’t until The Expanse that we got something better in both narrative and production values. The end falls apart and is dumb, but not so dumb that it ruins the previous 60ish hours, for me.

I gotta try the Expanse again. I've given it two goes and not gotten pasts like episode 4 both times.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug

PostNouveau posted:

I gotta try the Expanse again. I've given it two goes and not gotten pasts like episode 4 both times.

try to make to season 2 at least.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Yeah the first three seasons were real good, once you get invested in the mystery plot.

The later seasons didn't hold up in my mind, though not in a "this ruined the show" way, just an "I am bored by every scene with James Holden in it" way.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




Pattonesque posted:

oh goddammit noooooooo

oh good she's a *former* member

It honestly seems like every canadian actress is a former member. Kristin Kreuk included.

As Nero Danced
Sep 3, 2009

Alright, let's do this
Speaking of the Expanse, it feels like they kind of forgot/stopped trying to make belters physiologically different from earthers and martians after the first few episodes. I get it, that would be hell to keep track of and make production that much more complicated, but still.

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Nail Rat
Dec 29, 2000

You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you! God damn you all to hell!!
Humans who look like book belters kind of don't exist

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