|
Xealot posted:I also have this complaint. Every goddamn genre franchise winds up in this place where the original thing is the most important event in its fictional history, so everything else becomes a supplement or coda to it. Like, the Night King dying and the Iron Throne melting is the End of History. The One Ring being destroyed is the End of History. Nothing important can possibly happen after. But, here's a random and less-important story that precedes it, replete with winks and nods to the original while never quite justifying its own existence as a unique thing.
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 09:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:45 |
|
|
Sanguinia posted:If they were going to do a Roberts Rebellion Prequel the smart move would have been to make it a mid-quel that aired sometime after Season 5 or 6, like Bleach's "Turn Back The Pendulum," arc, setting the stage for the final battle by revealing all the secret origins and whatnot. Once you give away that Rhaegar and Lyanna were lovers who got married rather than Rhaegar having dishonored himself by kidnapping her you give away a lot of the intrigue about the War not being what it seemed to be from all the descriptions we got from the characters who were there. In my mind the perfect way to "save" the franchise (I've fantasized about this a lot) would be to do a Robert's Rebellion prequel series, but then use it as an excuse to undo/retcon a lot of things about the original show's ending. Drop that reveal, then also have loaded the Basilisk's Blood chekov's gun (and reveal in the finale that Varys fired it when he had Dany poisoned and THAT'S why she went mad), that Jon killing Dany was a very very bad thing (Blood Betrayal), but the final shot is Drogon carrying Dany's body into Volantis and a bunch of red priests waiting for him (and either show the resurrection outright or just make it extremely obvious that's what happened). It would then lead into a sequel series where The Full Truth has come out and Resurrected Dany's kind of pissed but Evil King Three-Eyed Raven is a tyrant and all the "good guys" need to work together to save the world from him.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 13:46
|
|
|
Why does Dany need to always remain this pure white snowflake that is failed constantly by those around her? Why can't she just be terrible and misguided herself and make her own decisions, for better or for worse? Know that this isn't a dig at you Sky, I like your theories and I do see them as viable and fun. It's just that the whole Dany as a pure white savior thing...bothers me.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 14:04
|
|
|
Who is the target market? I read the book series three times, watched the show the second each episode aired, and have subsequently been so burned I will not watch this. Everyone I know says they won't watch this. It's a burned franchise.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
Xealot posted:I also have this complaint. Every goddamn genre franchise winds up in this place where the original thing is the most important event in its fictional history, so everything else becomes a supplement or coda to it. Like, the Night King dying and the Iron Throne melting is the End of History. The One Ring being destroyed is the End of History. Nothing important can possibly happen after. But, here's a random and less-important story that precedes it, replete with winks and nods to the original while never quite justifying its own existence as a unique thing. The war of the ring isn't even the most important event mentioned in the lord of the rings, let alone the wider world though. It's just the one that frodo witnesses and that marks the end of the 3rd age but the scale is much smaller than something like the last alliance
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 15:34
|
|
|
A sequel series about exploring Southoros but it’s a bunch of Ironborne getting harassed by monkeys
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
bobjr posted:A sequel series about exploring Southoros but it’s a bunch of Ironborne getting harassed by monkeys Arya in Westerosmerica becoming an assassinpiratecowboy.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
The show will be to GoT what Caprica was to BSG.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 16:33
|
|
|
looking forward to the 5 minute sizzle reel of cool things from in between the Dance and Robert's Rebellion at the end of season 1
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
Agreed about not needing prequels. I didn't need to see Vader as a kid and then as an emo teenager, I didn't need to see the origins of the Space Jockey or the Xenomorph, and I don't need to see the Targaryen family history or whatever it is that the GoT prequel series is going to be about.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
I know goons don't want to believe this but I think normal people/casual watchers (i.e. people who don't spend a lot of time posting on forums or twitter) still look back fondly on the show overall. goons have hated the show for 6+ years while most people only really disliked the final season. I'm not sure the well is as poisoned as people think it is. but whether or not that's the case a spin-off isn't going to be nearly as successful as the original series either way so I guess it's a moot point
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:Why the gently caress does everything have to always be prequels? Show me what happens next. I promise more people would care about that, be it five years or 500. Just make it later so we can get this taste out of our mouths. GRRM has written prequel story, but hasn't gotten around to finishing GOT much less writing what happens next. To their credit, if you're going to invest more money in more GOT, HBO is smart to base it on GRRM source material instead of trying to invent it whole-cloth. But I do agree with you that prequels are way played out and I want to see more things that drive the story forwards. Fortunately, this period is so vastly far behind that of GOT that its not really a prequel at all. Nobody from GOT will be born for hundreds of years. Its not like we're going to see Young Ned and Young Robert running around as children in this show. Its not *really* a prequel. In fact if you just hand wave some "a long time ago in a place far far away" stuff in there, you can pretend that this story IS a sequel. King Bran died hundreds of years ago, the Seven Kingdoms have reverted back to the various houses and here we are. Xealot posted:I'd be perfectly happy with a Fourth Age of Middle Earth story, a story about Westeros entering a magic-infused Age of Exploration. Anything that doesn't carry this weight on its shoulders because nothing that surprising or significant can happen without stepping on the toes of the original. Fortunately, there's not a lot that would conflict with the original. They can't completely kill off everybody in Westeros... that's about it. 
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:26
|
|
|
romanowski posted:I know goons don't want to believe this but I think normal people/casual watchers (i.e. people who don't spend a lot of time posting on forums or twitter) still look back fondly on the show overall. goons have hated the show for 6+ years while most people only really disliked the final season. I'm not sure the well is as poisoned as people think it is. but whether or not that's the case a spin-off isn't going to be nearly as successful as the original series either way so I guess it's a moot point Uh, acting like only goons run Twitter is pretty weird. Lots of mainstream people on twitter. But if not forums or twitter, how are you getting the impression of what these people think? Seems like you're just assuming this apropos of nothing... This is 100% not just a goon thing. Lmao. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA7UQOYskas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtW9fBj4U5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWeNvUFGgeM https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/ https://metro.co.uk/2020/05/19/game-thrones-season-8-was-bad-destroyed-shows-entire-legacy-12716944/ Just LOOK at this, my man. These are not goons:  E: I guess re-reading your post you're less saying casual viewers didn't hate the end and more saying they still like the show even if they hated the end. But I don't know. It was very commonly compared to Dexter and other shows with godawful endings and looooots of people were talking about how they can't re-watch the show now because of how bad the end was and knowing it was all for nothing. Not just nerds think that. And while some Goons were against GOT from the start, its unfair to paint all goons as having hated the show the whole time. There's definitely a LOT of us who were super into watching the show and only started to really dislike it around season 5. But I think people are fickle, and even if they did feel that way, after a few years they'll cool off, and with nothing else all that exciting on TV a new GOT show getting their attention is totally possible. But I doubt its going to be super good. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 6, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:30
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Just LOOK at this, my man. These are not goons: What the hell happened in 307 and 506?! e: I mean all of 5 was loving awful so it's hard to remember which one was worse in particular.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:34
|
|
|
stev posted:What the hell happened in 307 and 506?! 506 was Unbowed, Unbent, aka Dorne Sand Snakes bs and Sansa getting Raped.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:36
|
|
|
stev posted:What the hell happened in 307 and 506?! 307 was boring and 506 was Sansa getting raped.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:E: I guess re-reading your post you're less saying casual viewers didn't hate the end and more saying they still like the show even if they hated the end. But I don't know. It was very commonly compared to Dexter and other shows with godawful endings and looooots of people were talking about how they can't re-watch the show now because of how bad the end was and knowing it was all for nothing. Not just nerds think that. yeah my point is more about how casual watchers feel about the show/franchise overall. unlike goons (myself included although I was generally more accepting of the show's faults before s7), most people still viewed the show favorably even after the truly awful 7th season. people cooled off on it after s8 but I'm not really convinced that the well is so poisoned the most normal people will completely tune out this show, but I guess that remains to be seen until the marketing really kicks into gear
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:50
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Just LOOK at this, my man. These are not goons: I prefer this way of reading ratings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVR5Ju8gNys
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 19:59
|
|
|
thunderspanks posted:307 was boring But judging by the title it sounds like it was Jaime and Brienne heavy, aka the best scenes in the season. 
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
stev posted:But judging by the title it sounds like it was Jaime and Brienne heavy, aka the best scenes in the season. Pretty much the only thing interesting in the entire episode IIRC is Jaime saving Brienne from a literal bear.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
As wary as I am on this show I prefer the concept to roberts rebellion since RR is basically all poo poo and characters that I'm familiar with and a prequel hundreds of years prior has more freedom. Like how KOTOR could just make stuff up without being burdened by A New Hope canon like the Disney prequels and sequels are.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:13
|
|
|
Xealot posted:I also have this complaint. Every goddamn genre franchise winds up in this place where the original thing is the most important event in its fictional history, so everything else becomes a supplement or coda to it. Like, the Night King dying and the Iron Throne melting is the End of History. The One Ring being destroyed is the End of History. Nothing important can possibly happen after. But, here's a random and less-important story that precedes it, replete with winks and nods to the original while never quite justifying its own existence as a unique thing. Legend of Korra does exactly this with the Avatar franchise. And its individual seasons are so much stronger than the original was, though the original is a classic. Season 3... man, season 3 is so good.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
korra's a cop who tears down an equal rights movement
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
but avatar wan and season 3 are great tho yeah
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 20:25
|
|
|
massive spider posted:As wary as I am on this show I prefer the concept to roberts rebellion since RR is basically all poo poo and characters that I'm familiar with and a prequel hundreds of years prior has more freedom. Like how KOTOR could just make stuff up without being burdened by A New Hope canon like the Disney prequels and sequels are. Exactly
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 21:21
|
|
|
Ccs posted:Legend of Korra does exactly this with the Avatar franchise. And its individual seasons are so much stronger than the original was, though the original is a classic. Season 3... man, season 3 is so good. I always thought Korra was way weaker than Avatar and really only came close when talking about Tenzin, Jinora, and Aang not being a good dad
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
bobjr posted:A sequel series about exploring Southoros but it’s a bunch of Ironborne getting harassed by monkeys I'm down for a Herzog / Kinski GoT project
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 21:33
|
|
|
I remember a little criticism at the time that season 3 was dragging things out to make the red wedding the big season 9 surprise.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
bobjr posted:I remember a little criticism at the time that season 3 was dragging things out to make the red wedding the big season 9 surprise. That's a lot of dragging.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
An insane mind posted:Why does Dany need to always remain this pure white snowflake that is failed constantly by those around her? Why can't she just be terrible and misguided herself and make her own decisions, for better or for worse? Dany should be allowed to make mistakes. She does quite a bit. Becoming a Nazi should not be one of those mistakes. This view of Dany being a White Savior never made sense to me, especially not in the show. In the books I can maybe see it, but the show goes out of its way to increase the agency and relevance of Grey Worm and Missandei in her rule, and show that her efforts to change the societies she encounters and destroy slavery are rooted in her own position of having been a commodity and victim. Her methods are even explicitly focused on empowering others to rise up rather than just riding in and doing it all for them. She's not going into Darkest Brownpeopleland and bring them White Civilization because they're Savages. Hell, she's more at home among the Dothraki after she assimilates than she ever was before. The one unambiguous example of White Saviorism, when she tries to "save," the Lamb Women, leads to her losing everything and getting a very frank explanation to her face that her White Savior bullshit was worth nothing, which she clearly takes to heart. Also relevant, she treats the horrors of White Civilization in Westeros exactly the same as she does Non-White Civilization in Essos: get it the gently caress out and do things better. Messiah complex maybe, not White Savior.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:Dany should be allowed to make mistakes. She does quite a bit. Becoming a Nazi should not be one of those mistakes. The books also make it very clear that there isn't a white savior thing going on. Dany empathizes with the slaves because she was pretty much one of them. Some of Illyrio's slaves in her very first chapter tell her that Drogo's so rich that even his slaves have collars made of gold. When they dress her, she puts her hand on her neck and realizes she's wearing a necklace made of gold. She begs Viserys not to marry Drogo, and Viserys says "you're going to do it because I say so" (and yes in the books he does his line about all 40,000 men and their horses, too). Slavery in the books is not racially based. Slaves are of every ethnicity. The island of Lys pretty much breeds Valyrians to create the most beautiful slaves to fill their brothels; it's literally an island of slaves who look just like Dany (which is why Dany being a nobody child slave bought from a Lyesene whorehouse that they could pass off as a Princess is a theory). She definitely has a Messiah complex but she has basically been a victim her whole life for the decisions of people who all died before she was even born, chased by assassins merely for who she is, forced to watch her only brother be broken before her very eyes and become cruel and weak, and the moments she starts gaining any semblance of power and agency, she starts trying to make the world a better place. The masters outright say "we'll give you whatever you want if you just leave"; she refuses on the grounds that she wants to free more slaves. She only makes herself Queen of Meereen because in her first two cities she liberates, she doesn't, and in both cases it goes horribly wrong.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:The one unambiguous example of White Saviorism, 
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 00:32
|
|
|
I'm arguing based on the books, and GRRM specifically said "wow that scene wasn't at all right, it's not racial slavery" https://t.co/9pEafe2wG9?amp=1 ^ the video where he says it.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 00:44
|
|
|
I love that GRRM pronounces them "Dothrak-eye" instead of the showrunners "Dothrak-ee"
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
It's like how George Lucas pronounces them GOON-gens even though nobody in the movies do.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:I'm arguing based on the books, and GRRM specifically said "wow that scene wasn't at all right, it's not racial slavery" Which makes that shot a perfect example of how the writer's perspective on the matter gets trounced by visual storytelling every time. The defense of Dany as 'not a White Savior' makes tons of sense, until you realize these kinds of visuals are all over the place, inform her entire plotline on the show. Dany looking visually separate from the setting and its people was clearly a choice the show kept making, casting dark-haired brown people as extras and dressing pale, blonde-haired Dany in bright blues or whites in the middle of a desert. The text may be saying one thing, but it's clear what D&D wanted you to think. So, sure, it's not ethnic slavery, and Dany's whiteness isn't a relevant part of the text within the source narrative. "But this crane shot'll look so awesome if Dany's in a sea of brown. Visual contrast. Let's do it that way, instead."
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 01:30
|
|
|
Xealot posted:I also have this complaint. Every goddamn genre franchise winds up in this place where the original thing is the most important event in its fictional history, so everything else becomes a supplement or coda to it. Like, the Night King dying and the Iron Throne melting is the End of History. The One Ring being destroyed is the End of History. Nothing important can possibly happen after. But, here's a random and less-important story that precedes it, replete with winks and nods to the original while never quite justifying its own existence as a unique thing. It's called profit motive and short term stockholder benefit bro. Same reason they made a "Nurse Ratched" movie. A slightly more serious answer is that humans are much better at reading significance into past events because determinative readings of history are much more comforting than acknowledging that a lot of poo poo is random chance and all the things that we think are important are only that way because they allow us to rationalize the role and identity we inhabit today event if on the whole the status quo is pretty horrific for basically everybody outside of a small chunk of humanity. Easier to mine the past for every iota of projected "meaning" than attempting to face the future with the perspective that we have very little control over the implications of our actions, right down to the simple act of existence. That increasingly extends into how we engage with media but it's not new in any way really. Ccs posted:Legend of Korra does exactly this with the Avatar franchise. And its individual seasons are so much stronger than the original was, though the original is a classic. Season 3... man, season 3 is so good. Korra gets a bad rap, I think it is as good as the original but suffered from a less coherent arc and a bunch of fuckery by Nickelodeon where the creators weren't even sure they'd get four seasons to tell the whole story.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 01:38
|
|
|
I'd really love to hear one of the HBO's execs meeting after the final season bombed. Like even with the decline in quality people still loved it, including season 7. They had in their hands the next Lord of The Ring franchise (or maybe bigger since it appealed to "soccer moms and NFL players"), including having a bunch of nerds complaining why they didn't ride a dragon across the Wall to fetch a zombie/ride an eagle to Mordor. They take 2 years to prepare the last season, the final seal on the check before going to the bank to cash in, going as far as streaming all the other seasons for free just to get as much people onboard and hyped as possible. And then overnight it was all gone.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 04:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 18:45 |
|
|
One nice thing about Game of Thrones is there's so much on the map we don't really explore outside of one character maybe being from there or have traveled there a long time ago. Plus outside of Westeros there's not a lot of places that seem to care that much about the place.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2021 04:25
|
|