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nessin
Feb 7, 2010


Has the Shadow Empire manual been updated with all the changes? If it hasn't I'd be really sure you want to spend the money/time to print it out.

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Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!


Itís been updated for air, at least. But arenít boats coming at some point?

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

nessin posted:

Has the Shadow Empire manual been updated with all the changes? If it hasn't I'd be really sure you want to spend the money/time to print it out.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4919240

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

New Combat Mission Cold War game is out today. I was holding out for Red Thunder but might check out the T-55 on M60 extravaganza instead.

Squiggle
Sep 29, 2002

I don't think she likes the special sauce, Rick.



Soiled Meat

Didn't the Red Thunder expansion come out just yesterday, too?

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Squiggle posted:

Didn't the Red Thunder expansion come out just yesterday, too?

I think so yes, haven't heard anything about it yet.

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012




Squiggle posted:

Didn't the Red Thunder expansion come out just yesterday, too?

Completely unannounced yes lol.

On a related note, from what I've heard the Battlefront servers are melting under the load of literally dozens of people trying to download the new Combat Missions.

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Does anyone have a current guide on calling arty in graviteam tactics?

Fray
Oct 22, 2010



College Slice

Squiggle posted:

Didn't the Red Thunder expansion come out just yesterday, too?

Oh drat, I didn't even hear that was coming. RT is my favorite one, but the narrowness of its scope was always a bummer.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Fray posted:

Oh drat, I didn't even hear that was coming. RT is my favorite one, but the narrowness of its scope was always a bummer.

If anyone picks it up, how many small-medium scenarios are there? I just can't handle that game engine with a regiments worth of micromanaging.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

None of these Battlefront games are "out" until they are released on Steam

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



Lol, wut. They're holding back the Steam release?!?

battlefront.

Without looking I'm going to guess the price. £60, no discount for day one purchase.

Edit $60 (I guessed Pounds, that's like £45), so not crazy pricing i guess . I still can't believe they're launching on day one, just on their own site. Way to build PR and momentum guys. Did they even send out any free keys to the big online grogs?

Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Apr 30, 2021

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Deptfordx posted:

Without looking I'm going to guess the price. £60, no discount for day one purchase.

It's almost like you've seen one of these releases before. That, or you are psychic.

fartknocker
Oct 28, 2012

Damn it, this always happens. I think I'm gonna score, and then I never score. It's not fair.




Wedge Regret

Dramicus posted:

None of these Battlefront games are "out" until they are released on Steam

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012




Deptfordx posted:

Lol, wut. They're holding back the Steam release?!?

battlefront.

Without looking I'm going to guess the price. £60, no discount for day one purchase.

Their excuse is they need time to "beta test" integrating Slitherine's not-terrible PBEM system and what better way than the poor Stockholm-syndromed bastards fans who buy from the Battlefront store?

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



I like Cold War stuff, I loved Red Dragon, ALB etc and I am momentarily unusually flush at the moment.

So I was very tempted to get it.

But I'm not jumping through hoops and registering with another drat store whose security I am highly inclined to distrust.

Steam or GTFO for me.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Their excuse is they need time to "beta test" integrating Slitherine's not-terrible PBEM system and what better way than the poor Stockholm-syndromed bastards fans who buy from the Battlefront store?

Well, I mean the steam playerbase is known for their love of playing turn-based games over email. It was right to not release a potentially broken PBEM system to Steam players who would likely use it almost exclusively, every day.

Much smarter to test it on the Grognards who've never heard of PBEM and aren't likely to notice that it's broken.

Or is it the other way around? Perhaps I got confused.

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017


Deptfordx posted:

Lol, wut. They're holding back the Steam release?!?

battlefront.

I honestly think that this is actually not an unreasonable policy to have for a very small game studio doing very niche games. The Steam cut can seem like a lot if you expect to sell about a ~1000 copies, all to hardcore fans that would buy it anyway, and are unsure about how successful it will be with a wider audience. By staggering the release, they get the core fanbase to buy on their site without the cut, and then can release to all the other people later on Steam. It's a sort of way to do price discrimination, only with service instead of prices, and price discrimination generally has a much worse rap than it deserves. For very niche markets, effectively doing price discrimination can mean the difference of just serving luxury goods to a few individuals at huge prices, or also being able to serve a much larger market at a reasonable price point. The option of selling to everyone at that reasonable price point is not available, because market size * that price is less than the cost of making the product.

I will of course wait until it's on steam because gently caress dealing with Battlefront directly.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj1iEYvBLEo#t=53s

Battlefront weighs in on the effectiveness of PTABs/cluster munitions vs tanks discussion.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



Tuna-Fish posted:

I honestly think that this is actually not an unreasonable policy to have for a very small game studio doing very niche games. The Steam cut can seem like a lot if you expect to sell about a ~1000 copies, all to hardcore fans that would buy it anyway, and are unsure about how successful it will be with a wider audience. By staggering the release, they get the core fanbase to buy on their site without the cut, and then can release to all the other people later on Steam. It's a sort of way to do price discrimination, only with service instead of prices, and price discrimination generally has a much worse rap than it deserves. For very niche markets, effectively doing price discrimination can mean the difference of just serving luxury goods to a few individuals at huge prices, or also being able to serve a much larger market at a reasonable price point. The option of selling to everyone at that reasonable price point is not available, because market size * that price is less than the cost of making the product.

I will of course wait until it's on steam because gently caress dealing with Battlefront directly.

Steamspy puts Red Dragon sales at 1-2 million.

Now obviously not everyone who has Red Dragon would be interested in an even groggier version, but I bet a fair few of them would.

If they knew it existed..

if Battlefront acknowledged it was 2021 and got there product out there, steam codes to the big grog youtubers, pushing previews and offering content to websites, cross-promoting with the Team Yankee, Flames of War guys, etc,etc.

Maybe they wouldn't have to be a superniche publisher.

SavageMessiah
Jan 28, 2009

Emotionally drained and spookified



Toilet Rascal

Is there a way to buy just the hard copy manual from matrix? Or do you have to buy the game there to get it? If you buy the game from them do you get a steam key?

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



SavageMessiah posted:

Is there a way to buy just the hard copy manual from matrix? Or do you have to buy the game there to get it? If you buy the game from them do you get a steam key?

I bought the DC:B manual and it came with a steam key. I believe you have to buy the game+manual, (at least for DCB)

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Deptfordx posted:


if Battlefront acknowledged it was 2021 and got there product out there, steam codes to the big grog youtubers, pushing previews and offering content to websites, cross-promoting with the Team Yankee, Flames of War guys, etc,etc.

Maybe they wouldn't have to be a superniche publisher.

But every code they send to a content creator is one less sale. Steam is bad enough by stealing 30% of their hard-earned money. A free code to a youtuber is 100% stolen money.

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012

DIG THROUGH THE DITCHES
AND BURN THROUGH THE WITCHES



Dramicus posted:

But every code they send to a content creator is one less sale. Steam is bad enough by stealing 30% of their hard-earned money. A free code to a youtuber is 100% stolen money.

The $$$ theyd lose on those few steam keys theyd make back with all the extra sales and then some.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



Dramicus posted:

But every code they send to a content creator is one less sale. Steam is bad enough by stealing 30% of their hard-earned money. A free code to a youtuber is 100% stolen money.

Welp. You've got me there.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Kvlt! posted:

The $$$ theyd lose on those few steam keys theyd make back with all the extra sales and then some.

I'd reply to you explaining just how wrong you are, but you've stolen enough of my hard-earned money as it is.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



So I was curious enought to go digging around a few Strategy/Grog sites to see if anyone even mentioned "Hey you can now give Battlefront money for their game".

Nothing.

In fact it's worse.

The two sites I found which even mentioned the game, and one was a few days old. Were both "Hey, this games been delayed to June, so no need to even think about it till then!"

I'm no marketing guy, I've never had a PR role, but even I can see this ain't gonna fly in 2021.

Seriously how are they so bad at this.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

Yeah, the video I posted from a guy with 6k subscribers is literally the only peep I've seen. On the other hand, his audience probably represents every single person on Earth interested in Combat Mission games, so it's probably better than it looks. (His channel is pretty nifty, check it out if you like CM.)

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012




Yeah Unusually Hapless' videos are great. He's real good at explaining Combat Mission in an understandable way.

B-1.1.7 Bomber
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

is the plural of combat mission, combats mission? Too bad there isn't more than one of 'em on steam so we'll never find out!

j/k, but seriously, wtf with this release?

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010




College Slice

Two WITP:AE questions:

1. The scenario in slot 007 is the full campaign and "Quiet China", but as far as I can tell, China is the same as in the base grand campaign. There's units there, Japan attacks, etc. Is this just the same as the regular full campaign? What does/should "Quiet China" mean?

2. I just had an early Coral Sea-esq battle in my full campaign. Saratoga faced off against two Japanese CVLs, and while she scored no hits against the enemy carriers, she was herself unscathed. Lexington was supposed to move into position to support, but apparently decided to just sit and chill. Any idea why Lex didn't move at all? As you can see in the 2nd image, she has orders to move up to Guadalcanal, and as far as I can tell should have moved: plenty of speed, no damage, and plenty of fuel. But she's literally in the same hex she was on Jan 8th.

Situation on Jan 8, 1942.


Lexington's Jan 8th orders.


Positions on Jan 9th.


Lexington task force status as of Jan 9th.

The task force following Lexington consists of two CAs and some DDs. They can all move at 30+ so they shouldn't be slowing Lex down. So I really have no idea why she didn't move.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

In Quiet China the AI just stops interacting with units in that region in early '42. The units will still execute their last order but won't get any new ones, so you might need to kick them out of a hex or retreat so you don't get the reports every turn.

HisMajestyBOB
Oct 21, 2010




College Slice

uPen posted:

In Quiet China the AI just stops interacting with units in that region in early '42. The units will still execute their last order but won't get any new ones, so you might need to kick them out of a hex or retreat so you don't get the reports every turn.

Ah, okay. I thought it was supposed to be quite or empty from the beginning.
I don't mind occasionally making orders in China, but the constant reports of bombing raids and bombardment attacks is pretty tedious.

Flannelette
Jan 16, 2010




Mr Luxury Yacht posted:

Completely unannounced yes lol.

On a related note, from what I've heard the Battlefront servers are melting under the load of literally dozens of people trying to download the new Combat Missions.

Battlefront encounters a brand new problem, more than a few people bought their game.

Deptfordx posted:

Lol, wut. They're holding back the Steam release?!?

battlefront.

Without looking I'm going to guess the price. £60, no discount for day one purchase.

Edit $60 (I guessed Pounds, that's like £45), so not crazy pricing i guess . I still can't believe they're launching on day one, just on their own site. Way to build PR and momentum guys. Did they even send out any free keys to the big online grogs?
Sell the no steam cut version to the die hard fans and then sell to the rest on steam I guess.

Dramicus posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj1iEYvBLEo#t=53s

Battlefront weighs in on the effectiveness of PTABs/cluster munitions vs tanks discussion.

Haha I should have expected that cluster munition for BF will just be "spawn a whole bunch of shells", they really need to redo their engine.


BrotherJayne posted:

Does anyone have a current guide on calling arty in graviteam tactics?

Which part are you having trouble with?

Flannelette fucked around with this message at 05:44 on May 1, 2021

Saros
Dec 29, 2009

Its almost like we're a Bureaucracy, in space!

I set sail for the Planet of Lab Requisitions!!



HisMajestyBOB posted:

The task force following Lexington consists of two CAs and some DDs. They can all move at 30+ so they shouldn't be slowing Lex down. So I really have no idea why she didn't move.

You're doing it backwards, lex should be following the surface task force. Lex's orders look fine so it must be something in the tf following it that's fouling up.

Check the previous day, it's quite possible they refueled the DD's and didn't have enough ops to move. We need the tf screen for both tf's on the 8th.

Saros fucked around with this message at 10:20 on May 1, 2021

Pharnakes
Aug 14, 2009


Also generally speaking you should be using patrol, not remain on station. RoS will result in them doing just that, pretty much no matter what, patrol will let them adapt to the situation and retreat if needed.

And like Saros said carriers should follow surface forces as a rule, no the other way around. One downside to following a surface force though is the carriers will stick with them , since it is assumed they are providing air cover. This means the carriers will not react towards or away from enemy carriers to get optimal strike range as they otherwise might.

Gewehr 43
Aug 25, 2003


I've also just straight up had buggy behavior with the "follow tf" command. The previous guys are spot on, though.

SerthVarnee
Mar 13, 2011


Big Super Slapstick Hunk

the follow tf command can lead to some hilarious warp speed maneuvers though.

I had a tf on "follow tf" for another tf that was operating somewhere around the Japanese end of the Aleutians.

Another force was doing the same thing down near the Dutch East Indies. due to some shifting back and forth with task force compositions I ended up with a task force in the Aleutians that had gotten the name of the one being followed in the DEI. The following task force in the DEI meanwhile, had gotten the name of the following force in the Aleutians.

The end result was the game going "gently caress this poo poo, at the end of the day these two forces are going to be exactly 3 tiles apart because that's what they were at the start of the day.

So my ships sailed from the DEI, ran into 6 separate Japanese forces and clowned them due to the massive speed differential or something (like 4 destroyers and a heavy cruiser killing or crippling 3 CA, 2 CL, 6 DD, 1 CVL, 12AKx, 2 TK, 1 AO and 4 coastal ships), ran out of fuel just south of Tokyo Bay, continued on without fuel (acquiring system damage every hex) and arrived on station just in time to shoot at an incoming airstrike off the north east coast of Japan.

Magni
Apr 29, 2009


SerthVarnee posted:

the follow tf command can lead to some hilarious warp speed maneuvers though.

I had a tf on "follow tf" for another tf that was operating somewhere around the Japanese end of the Aleutians.

Another force was doing the same thing down near the Dutch East Indies. due to some shifting back and forth with task force compositions I ended up with a task force in the Aleutians that had gotten the name of the one being followed in the DEI. The following task force in the DEI meanwhile, had gotten the name of the following force in the Aleutians.

The end result was the game going "gently caress this poo poo, at the end of the day these two forces are going to be exactly 3 tiles apart because that's what they were at the start of the day.

So my ships sailed from the DEI, ran into 6 separate Japanese forces and clowned them due to the massive speed differential or something (like 4 destroyers and a heavy cruiser killing or crippling 3 CA, 2 CL, 6 DD, 1 CVL, 12AKx, 2 TK, 1 AO and 4 coastal ships), ran out of fuel just south of Tokyo Bay, continued on without fuel (acquiring system damage every hex) and arrived on station just in time to shoot at an incoming airstrike off the north east coast of Japan.

Now there's a bug that should never be fixed.

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pthighs
Jun 21, 2013



Pillbug

SerthVarnee posted:

the follow tf command can lead to some hilarious warp speed maneuvers though.

I had a tf on "follow tf" for another tf that was operating somewhere around the Japanese end of the Aleutians.

Another force was doing the same thing down near the Dutch East Indies. due to some shifting back and forth with task force compositions I ended up with a task force in the Aleutians that had gotten the name of the one being followed in the DEI. The following task force in the DEI meanwhile, had gotten the name of the following force in the Aleutians.

The end result was the game going "gently caress this poo poo, at the end of the day these two forces are going to be exactly 3 tiles apart because that's what they were at the start of the day.

So my ships sailed from the DEI, ran into 6 separate Japanese forces and clowned them due to the massive speed differential or something (like 4 destroyers and a heavy cruiser killing or crippling 3 CA, 2 CL, 6 DD, 1 CVL, 12AKx, 2 TK, 1 AO and 4 coastal ships), ran out of fuel just south of Tokyo Bay, continued on without fuel (acquiring system damage every hex) and arrived on station just in time to shoot at an incoming airstrike off the north east coast of Japan.

Script for The Philadelphia Experiment II coming along nicely.

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