Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!


Has anyone done a wargame that covers the Battle of the Scheldt? It seems like an interesting fight, and historically important, and includes a lot of amphibious mucking around.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

V for Vegas
Aug 31, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Yep. Guess who

https://johntillersoftware.com/PanzerCampaigns/Scheldt44.html

Freedom Trails
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

John Tiller rocks. He put one out about Operation Sealion! Not a scenario or two, a whole drat product dedicated to the "what if" campaign. Mad respect for that guy (rip).

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Randomcheese3 posted:

This isn't quite true for the British, who did carry out a fairly major tonnage war with their subs in the Mediterranean. It wasn't on the same scale as the American or German ones, sure, but it could still be represented well, especially since it offers options for secondary tasks like landing SOE saboteurs or shelling coastal targets. They also participated in the Pacific sub campaign, as did the Dutch who are rarely represented either.

I'm interested in this - what kind of coastal target can you usefully shell with a submarine's deck gun?

habituallyred
Feb 6, 2015


Gort posted:

I'm interested in this - what kind of coastal target can you usefully shell with a submarine's deck gun?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M-class_submarine

Anachronisms aside: the same sort of things you target with bombers. Stuff that just can't affordably be hardened against attack.

HannibalBarca
Sep 11, 2016

History shows, again and again, how nature points out the folly of man.

Gort posted:

I'm interested in this - what kind of coastal target can you usefully shell with a submarine's deck gun?

The Japanese ineffectually bombarded an oil refinery in California with a submarine deck gun in 1942. It didn't do much of any damage, but contributed to the prevailing sense of general hysteria. :v:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Ellwood

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

We have the dimension of an empire.


ZombieLenin posted:

Right, and I think you have hit on exactly why Silent Hunter 4 added German Pacific U-boats rather than IJN submarines.

With one short lived exception where the IJN and Kriegsmarine conducted a joint operation in the Indian Ocean, IJN submarine doctrine had IJN submarines working in concert with surface fleets, or one off missions targeting land installations and warships; all while IJN commanders were highly discouraged from ‘wasting’ torpedos on merchants.

Honestly, this sort of thing is why you never see games featuring British, French, or Russian subs either. You end up with Second World War sub sims featuring exclusively German and American submarines precisely because these were the only two countries that engaged in tonnage wars with wide scale unrestricted use of submarines.

To do the sub branches of other navies justice you have to make a much more complicated game, with either far fewer merchant targets, or where a player has to somehow operate in concert with AI surface fleets, target only warships, or spend 2/3rds of the game laying mines.

Either that or you have to abandon any sense of historical accuracy and come up with a compelling alternative history that will entice enough of your typical Second World War sub sim audience into buying your game.

But these are video games.

Just grab submarines, produced and prototypes, put them out on sea and give them a procedurally generated campaign about sinking poo poo.

It reminds me of when I played men of war and pubbies would completely FREAK OUT if they saw me hosting a USA Vs UK match.

No no no, we have to play Soviets vs Germans until out bodies turn cold!

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)

Taco Defender

I think there are people who like smashing their army mans together and that there are people who like their army mans to be historically accurate recreations. But the group of people who care very much that the army mans are historically accurate but that the smashing up of them is not accurate tends to be a thinner sliver of the Venn diagram.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!



Awesome, thanks!

Magni
Apr 29, 2009


Pirate Radar posted:

Has anyone done a wargame that covers the Battle of the Scheldt? It seems like an interesting fight, and historically important, and includes a lot of amphibious mucking around.

Unity of Command II has the Scheldt as a scenario for the Allied campaign. Well, unless you already clear it out in the earlier Advance on Antwerp scenario, where it's a secondary target. Or unless you sucessfully take and hold Arnhem during Market Garden and switch the campaign to the ahistoric track.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

Pirate Radar posted:

Has anyone done a wargame that covers the Battle of the Scheldt? It seems like an interesting fight, and historically important, and includes a lot of amphibious mucking around.

Randomcheese3
Sep 6, 2011

"It's like no cheese I've ever tasted."

Gort posted:

I'm interested in this - what kind of coastal target can you usefully shell with a submarine's deck gun?

British subs in the Med spent a lot of time shelling railways on the Italian coast, hitting trains, bridges and the like.

habituallyred posted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_M-class_submarine

Anachronisms aside: the same sort of things you target with bombers. Stuff that just can't affordably be hardened against attack.

The M Class weren't built to shell land targets, they were built to hit ships with something that was hopefully more accurate than a torpedo.

Hypnobeard
Sep 15, 2004

Obey the Beard






Thank God I'll be dead before we get to this.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

does ASL ever get into hypothetical / fictional engagements? something like "what if Operation Jupiter was real" or "Unthinkable kicks off at the Elbe"?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

This is why we have orders, general.

gradenko_2000 posted:

does ASL ever get into hypothetical / fictional engagements? something like "what if Operation Jupiter was real" or "Unthinkable kicks off at the Elbe"?

Yeah there's fictional ASL scenarios.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

gradenko_2000 posted:

does ASL ever get into hypothetical / fictional engagements? something like "what if Operation Jupiter was real" or "Unthinkable kicks off at the Elbe"?

There are zombie ASL scenarios, yes. Also plenty of scenarios that are inspired or ripped whole cloth from movies.

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...



So Radio Commander is on sale for $1.99 on steam, if anyone was holding out…

TacticalNecromancy
May 25, 2015



My current challenge in Sprocket is making myself a viable light tank. I've managed to get down to a 10t 2-man machine with a 43mm cannon, but beyond that I can't seem to get myself something resembling the Model1/FT-17. I suspect it might be something to do with the size of the cannon.



Also, bonus garbage tank

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs



Grimey Drawer

Can you make open turret tanks in Sprocket? Your garbage tank looks basically like a Marder II.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.


TacticalNecromancy posted:

My current challenge in Sprocket is making myself a viable light tank. I've managed to get down to a 10t 2-man machine with a 43mm cannon, but beyond that I can't seem to get myself something resembling the Model1/FT-17. I suspect it might be something to do with the size of the cannon.



Also, bonus garbage tank



How does Sprocket determine a good or bad tank? Is it just a pure sandbox or can you like, test it or make it duel with other tanks?

Magni
Apr 29, 2009


TacticalNecromancy posted:

My current challenge in Sprocket is making myself a viable light tank. I've managed to get down to a 10t 2-man machine with a 43mm cannon, but beyond that I can't seem to get myself something resembling the Model1/FT-17. I suspect it might be something to do with the size of the cannon.

Probably is, given the FT-17 had a 37mm stub howitzer or a 13.2mm HMG depending on version.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010


Grimey Drawer

skooma512 posted:

How does Sprocket determine a good or bad tank? Is it just a pure sandbox or can you like, test it or make it duel with other tanks?

Both. It has 8 missions that you can test your tank in with a few restrictions on engine power and stuff. Currently you will face 60% historical tanks and a bunch of fake historical tanks. You can edit the mission files to load tanks that you design, though I suppose that will eventually be added as an official feature.

Ashmole
Oct 5, 2008

This wish was granted by Former DILF

MrYenko posted:

So Radio Commander is on sale for $1.99 on steam, if anyone was holding out…

Are there portions of the game where your radio stops working for no reason and you have to yell at your XO and comms dude to refill the radio but then they inform you that the SKL dropped commsec and they need to go to BN to go get commsec so basically you're sitting there with no ability to talk to anyone

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...



Ashmole posted:

Are there portions of the game where your radio stops working for no reason and you have to yell at your XO and comms dude to refill the radio but then they inform you that the SKL dropped commsec and they need to go to BN to go get commsec so basically you're sitting there with no ability to talk to anyone

I don’t know, I don’t have it. :downsgun:

TacticalNecromancy
May 25, 2015



skooma512 posted:

How does Sprocket determine a good or bad tank? Is it just a pure sandbox or can you like, test it or make it duel with other tanks?

There's a series of missions currently in-game with broad dates from 1918 to 1945, and the amount of stuff and weight you can put on your monstrosity depends on the era. Generally there's a few objectives from 'kill the arty', 'escape' and my favourite 'Kill that hull down King Tiger with a lower tech base'.

Each scenario also has a weight limit, but if you have a tank substantially below that limit, you'll get extra vehicles.

There is of course a difference between 'successful' and 'good'.

Freedom Trails
Feb 19, 2005

THE DARK SIDE OF SCIENCE BREEDS A WEAPON OF WAR


Buglord

MrYenko posted:

So Radio Commander is on sale for $1.99 on steam, if anyone was holding out…

Is it any good?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

It would be a sad error in judgement to mistake me for a corpse.


Clapping Larry

TacticalNecromancy posted:

There's a series of missions currently in-game with broad dates from 1918 to 1945, and the amount of stuff and weight you can put on your monstrosity depends on the era. Generally there's a few objectives from 'kill the arty', 'escape' and my favourite 'Kill that hull down King Tiger with a lower tech base'.

Each scenario also has a weight limit, but if you have a tank substantially below that limit, you'll get extra vehicles.

There is of course a difference between 'successful' and 'good'.



Gonk Droids are not tanks

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky, And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by

New patch for Ultimate Dreadnaughts dropped.

It uh, it resets your mission progress.

Mode 7
Jul 28, 2007



Thanks for the sub sim suggestions - I was contemplating throwing Silent Service 2 or something similar up on my MiSTer since I've been playing with the ao486 core a ton but then discovered today that Cold Waters is on sale so that's an easy purchase there.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs



Grimey Drawer

Cold Waters is fantastic. If you're interested in modding or playing as the Soviets check out the Epic Mod it adds a ton to the game but the base game itself is a lot of fun.

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010


Popete posted:

Cold Waters is fantastic. If you're interested in modding or playing as the Soviets check out the Epic Mod it adds a ton to the game but the base game itself is a lot of fun.

Throwing an Alfa class submarine around at 41 knots was one of the best experiences I ever had with Cold Waters . It's such a monstrously fun boat to play around with even if not as stealthy as some others.

Orange Devil
Sep 30, 2010

CUNT


Alchenar posted:

New patch for Ultimate Dreadnaughts dropped.

It uh, it resets your mission progress.

Replayability!

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

I must go down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky, And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by

More of a warning so people don't get surprised - the changes they've made mean the scenarios play differently (even Virginia vs Monitor is now a very different fight) and the whole point of the game in its early access state is to let you much about with the ship builder.

e: they have also massively improved framerates in the ship builder

TacticalNecromancy
May 25, 2015



Jobbo_Fett posted:

Gonk Droids are not tanks

They were neither sucessful nor good tanks, no.

Philthy
Jan 28, 2003



Pillbug

Are any of these sub games as fun as the old as poo poo 688 Attack Sub? I played that as a kid and loved it, it wasn't very sweaty, but it just did everything right so that it was fun.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Philthy posted:

Are any of these sub games as fun as the old as poo poo 688 Attack Sub? I played that as a kid and loved it, it wasn't very sweaty, but it just did everything right so that it was fun.

Cold Waters is very similar to Red Storm Rising

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



688 was great in how the atmosphere differed on the US and Soviet sub. Russian UI had everything labelled in real cyrillic Russian, so e.g. ТОРПЕДА rather than TOЯPЗDOS. Now for a teen myself this was a bit too much, I could barely understand the English interface of the American sub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhye7IZ7pS0

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010



Lipstick Apathy

Real sub-heads will remember SILENT STEEL

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



gradenko_2000 posted:

Real sub-heads will remember SILENT STEEL

That LP still gives me PTSD.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mode 7
Jul 28, 2007



Played the tutorials of Cold Waters last night, seemed straightforward enough, think I've got a good handle on doing TMA on and sinking some merchant ships, cool.

Start the first level of the first campaign this morning "Hey sink this enemy sub gogogo". Don't feel trained for this at all but sure okay, get to the mission and get started after poking around the helpfile for the campaign map.
Two contacts almost immediately detect me and I have torps incoming. Manage to very nervously go under them, but feel like a badass for doing so. Lost track of whatever the second contact was but the first contact which I'm guessing is my primary target, an enemy sub full of commandos, is circling me like a drat shark and launching more torpedos.

I go silent and try and circle behind it, coming up to speed as I get a good firing solution going but am too slow and clumsy at the controls to get a shot away. Moments later I realise I'm in deep poo poo - I'm losing contact with the enemy sub and one of their torpedos has found me and is rapidly approaching. I figure I'm about to get hit and possibly sunk.

Moments later, the enemy torpedo detonates... because I have somehow completely inadvertently managed to place the enemy sub between me and the incoming torpedo. They are instantly sunk and I have successfully completed my first mission without firing a shot.

Fun game! :v:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply