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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax.

http://blarg.introspect.net/uncategorized/139

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 25, 2020

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax.

http://blarg.introspect.net/uncategorized/149

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jun 25, 2020

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

gently caress lowtax here too.

You don't get to profit from the generosity of this community trying to give back to each other.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 25, 2020

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

IOwnCalculus posted:

With the new compressor you'll probably want to drain it of any new oil in it and measure that back into it. The new Denso that I put on my who few years ago for the same reason had way more oil in it than necessary for a not-dry system.

In fact in this case I'd probably just remove the old compressor, drain it to measure what's in there, drain the new one and replace with how much came out of the old one.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

nitsuga posted:

Is there any harm in leaving an A/C system undercharged? Iím not sure I have a leak, but I think I might. Iím trying to figure out how much I should or shouldnít prioritize fixing that.

If it has any pressure in it it's at least not completely open and getting water in it, so it's not too bad. If it's still running it's probably running like poo poo and icing up. That's more annoying than damaging.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

I wouldn't give anything made out of rubber on that car more than a 50% chance of working past the first 2 weeks you drive it regularly.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

RIP Paul Walker posted:

My understanding is the oil mixes with the refrigerant during operation, does this also apply if it leaks out?

Yes.

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Iím trying to figure out if I need to add oil, and if so, how much (entire quantity or just *some*).

Good luck. There is no way to tell how much leaked out. Fast leaks blow a whole lot out, slow leaks not so much.

If I were in your situation I'd figure out where the leak is first and see how bad it is. If it's very minor then add maybe 1/4 of the total oil volume. If it's a big leak......ehhhh...depends on how big. I'd add like 1/3 or more to "this hose literally explosively blew out" and everything changes if we're talking about collision damage taking out an evap....then I'd start with 1/3 for what was in the evap you had to take out and another 1/3 to account for what was carried out of the rest of the system. Which is probably slightly too much, but better a bit too much than too little.

The good thing is unless you go absolutely crazy overfilled oil won't hurt anything - it just slightly reduces system performance (less room for refrigerant). If you put way too much in it will slug the compressor. But playing the odds the system was probably filled at least somewhere around an appropriate level before the leak, so unless you have other information or suspicions I'd treat it that way.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jun 17, 2019

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Sounds like you're on the right track. Could be nothing more than natural seepage if your gauges/ports are leaky.

I don't suppose you can get your hands on some nitrogen to pressure test the system?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

If you can't find a leak just put in as little refrigerant as possible to allow it to run along with some dye. Run the system for a bit and it should be obvious with a black light where it's leaking.

Also, most ports won't hold vacuum since they're designed for pressure. When you take off the hoses the valve is just gonna suck in and fill the system partially or fully with air.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

MrOnBicycle posted:

There are A/C "service/diagnostic" services that can be done where they check pressure, empty, test vacuum, refill, remove moisture etc etc (according to description), that I think I should get my dad to do.

Yes, that's a basic AC service. And there's nothing you can do unless you can check pressures. So if you can't do that then bring it somewhere that can.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Jaded Burnout posted:

So, I am here, for your sage wisdom. I only skimmed the OP because it was full of advice on how to do this on your own which I'm definitely not up to doing on account of it apparently being not only troublesome for dealing with the waste refrigerant but also extremely dangerous.

Find a shop that does AC repair.......this sounds like you basically need to start with checking system pressures. Happy to help evaluate their diagnosis/quote, but like I'm sure I put in the OP: this almost always starts with needing a set of gauges to get anywhere into a diagnosis.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

MrOnBicycle posted:

Update: A/C Dude said it was pointless to do an A/C service unless we wanted to waste $280 (which was nice of him) as the car was cooling down to 4 degrees from a single vent. He couldn't see anything immediatly wrong with the A/C while inspecting it, and didn't have much of an explanation to why it stops working when it's very hot outside.

A/C worked 95% of of the trip to Berlin, only giving out after 10 minutes after driving away from Berlin (where it sat for an hour in the sun while we loaded the stuff). I guess we should just leave well enough alone for now.

You should bring it to someone who can be arsed to at least check the static and running pressures.

I'm confused about "the car was cooling down to 4 degrees from a single vent" If by this you mean it was working properly as far as cooling, just not out of the right vents then you have a different issue that likely involves the blend doors or control panel.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Jaded Burnout posted:

it appeared to be a (well constructed) guide to doing it yourself but also scaring away people who shouldn't be doing it themselves (like me).

Mission accomplished. Thank you. It was intended for both audiences.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

By all reports these seem to work fine: https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTe...=gateway&sr=8-8

They look to be nearly the same as most of the $30-75 sets.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

You did a good job of sending it meatpimp. And now you have cold air.

Carry on my good goon.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

You totally want to accidentally unbolt a line get it properly evacuated and replace the receiver/dryer and orifice tube (but the r/d it will probably come with that) and fill it to the correct charge weight. 23 ounces of R134a (5.5 ounces of PAG 46) by my charts. I'd say based on no information about being a super bad leak you want to do 1/4 of that PAG on your re-fill and obviously all of the refrigerant.


PainterofCrap posted:

If I perform a proper evacuation of the system & vacuum it all the way down: should that remove any moisture in the system?

If you replace the receiver/dryer yes.

Motronic
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Grimey Drawer

PainterofCrap posted:

Thank you...I was hoping I wouldn't have to replace the orifice yube but should probably anyway.

e: am I confusing the expansion valve with the orifice tube?

I don't know - are you? I took your word for it that your car had one. If it does it's super cheap and right in the r/d so replace it. If it has a txv it's buried in the dash, expensive and not likely your problem so don't.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

I don't do much (any) Honda work - do the pretty much all have TXVs? I should probably stop being lazy and remote to the shop computer to look this poo poo up.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

PainterofCrap posted:

This 2000 Accord definitely has one; what I don't know is if it also has an orifice tube on the receiver/drier.

I'm going to replace the r/d, pull vacuum, recharge it & report back.

It's one or the other. You have a TXV and a r/d or a cap tube/orifice tube and an accumulator (I was playing fast and loose with calling that an r/d since it's basically the same).

So it sounds like you have a TXV and probably should hope for the best on this just being low refrigerant, otherwise you're into knuckle busting work to replace the TXV.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Jaded Burnout posted:

I took it in to my usual, they did a regas, problem solved. I should do it more frequently, I wasn't aware that there was a lubrication component to the gas too.

Ehhhh....I wouldn't say it should be a frequent thing. But in most stuff you're looking at around 5 years. Some stuff is sooner, all depends on the length/number of barrier hoses (stuff with rear AC for example).

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

If I ran an AC shop I'd definitely suggest every 2 years

But seriously....do it when you notice issues. Make sure they put dye in it, so if there is a leak it's obvious to you/them the next time you have problems.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Lightbulb Out posted:

First step to get gauges and see what my pressures are?

As always.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Lightbulb Out posted:

Any gauge recommendations? I went to the local places but no one had gauges, just the single use R134a cans with a single gauge on top.

Amazon ones have wild reviews.

I should probably update the OP with this.

But here:

https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTe...=gateway&sr=8-4

Spend $31 on them, or spend up to $75 on some other set. They are all the same poo poo. The negative reviews are because the quality control is so bad that many fail out of the box or soon after. The hoses are made of lovely plastic so don't get them in oil or solvent and if you do clean them immediately.

The bottom line is that you roll the dice on these temporary tools or shell out for a pro set that you surely don't need and won't get the utility/money back out of unless maybe you find a good deal at a local used tool place (typically right after the tech school semester ends).

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Lightbulb Out posted:

I went to Autozone and well


That's not gone well.

I mean.....what's the temperature? I assume that's a static pressure (motor off and for a least a few hours). I'd expect to see the in the mid 80s to low 90s on a system that could be somewhere between "low charge but with some liquid refrigerant" and "all the lines are full of refrigerant and this will explode as soon as you turn on the compressor".

If there is any liquid at all in the system the static pressure will be the exact same given it's temperature, and this is in a range I believe possible.

Good start to diagnostics, but that's all it is.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Lightbulb Out posted:

No - that was after the car had been sitting for 2 or so hours. 78 degrees.

The blower has been running well, but I just hear a relay clicking the compressor on and off. I can feel it while driving, and hear it when sitting. It also seems to trigger the A/C fan.

I suppose it could definitely be a relay or switch of some kind.

Do the readings on the gauges change when the compressor cycles on? That's the next reading you need.

E: I think my videos are still in one of the OPs to show you what this looks like.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Lightbulb Out posted:

I was just spooked to see it reading in the *~danger zone*~

Lol, I didn't even recognize those markings because I only look at the numbers. Yeah, "danger zone" on low is accurate.....IF THE COMPRESSOR IS RUNNING. It's not, which is why both the low and high are the same reading.

Motronic
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Grimey Drawer

Molten Llama posted:

Basic question: Are these instructions relying solely on static pressures to determine when you've reached proper charge?

Static pressures on a non-clogged system should be IDENTIAL, because that's how these systems work.

The chart is running pressures.

Molten Llama posted:

My current patient is my partner's MINI, for which BMW couldn't possibly imagine publishing anything but a full vac-charge dose weight. I'm planning to check Mitchell1 when I swing by the library, but 98% of their MINI content is just the dealer Workshop Manual, which would give me only what the engine bay label already does. (410 g, +/- 10g, which is useless to me, the dude in an 0.75-car townhome garage with a manifold gauge set.)

410g is the only number you need if the system is empty. You can buy small cans and estimate on the last one, or use a typical digital kitchen scale (tare it with the last can you only need a part of, put some in, close the tap and weight it again, etc).

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Whoohoo, a thread success!

Motronic
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Grimey Drawer

Molten Llama posted:

Right, that I get.

It's the thread's running chart that's throwing me, as it's both miles off from the charts Denso/Chrysler have provided for my last two personal vehicles,(mostly at the high ambient end, which is what I'm stuck dealing with in Phoenix), and slightly off from the charts Mini forums have found God-knows-where.

A couple psi and I wouldn't have blinked an eye, but e.g. at 100į, my Denso chart lists a range a full 10-20 psi lower on the low side, and the questionable Mini forums charts have their low-side max pressure lower than the thread chart's min pressure.


It's got enough of a charge to be semi-functional and I don't want to accidentally vent anything to atmosphere, so the scale's unfortunately out.

You're not going to hurt anything charging to the lowest pressure you can find on any of those sources and then checking vent temps, driving around to make sure it doesn't freeze up.

Optimal is great, but really not required for the system to function. Even to function at peak performance most times. It just means that a lo charge weight is gonna get you back in there sooner. It's better than too much.....and even some too much is gonna be fine, just reduced performance unless it's so much extra that you're slugging the compressor.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

InitialDave posted:

I called ATS and they say they do have UV dye in their stuff, so with any luck a blacklight might pinpoint the issue.

You should be in good shape. Off to ebay/amazon.......

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

spankmeister posted:

Is there such a thing as a 12v vacuum pump that y'all can recommend? I don't have power available at the parking lot where I do most of my maintenance so when I do final get around to fixing my Golf's AC I want to evacuate the system using the car's power, if at all possible.

I doubt such a thing exists. If it did, you'd need a lot more than the energy stored in a single car battery to do the job.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Suicide Watch posted:

Thanks for the great first post, OP! My a/c crapped out a week ago and I've just ordered a gauge set to diagnose the problem. I'm hoping it's not a system leak but UV dye will tell.

Two questions to start:
- how important is it to purge the service line prior to opening the low pressure valve to add refrigerant?
- are those cans of R-134a that include UV dye okay, or is it better to add it via the service line?

Thanks, I'll have more questions sure to come when the gauge set comes in.

There's not much you're going to be able to to to purge the service line realistically as a home gamer doing a top off. It's a minimal amount of air.

Dye in refrigerant cans is good. Sealant and/or oil is bad.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

RIP Paul Walker posted:

I totally understand the issue with sealant, but why is oil in the can bad? I saw one of those on the shelf a few weeks ago and it seemed like a decent idea (assuming itís the correct oil).

Because you're not going to be getting oil in very well using a set of gauges and a service hose. You have no control over how much you put in other than "some of it" or "all of it". Maybe "none of it" if you're really careful about can position.

I prefer to fill the service line with a syringe that attaches to the line. This is when the system is in vacuum already at the beginning of a refill.

I'm not sure why you would want to add oil if you are just topping a system off, but if there is a reason you can still just detach the service line from the gauges and fill it with the syringe with the exact amount you want.

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Grimey Drawer

Have you found the compressor clutch relay and tried to bridge it yet to see if it's actually a clutch that doesn't work? That would be my step 1.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

I'm not sure how the hell that one works, but the old school ones are bypassed when the fan is on high - it's typically the easiest way to tell if the blow motor resister needs to be changed.

That one is.......special. And I'm guessing it's got something to do with a continuously variable fan speed.

If the cap on you old one isn't bulged out it's probably fine. And for $135 I would absolutely take that SOB apart and replace the cap for $1.25 rather than buy a new one.

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Grimey Drawer

MrOnBicycle posted:

Speaking of O-rings, am I right in thinking that I need special material O-rings for A/C applications (Chloroprene) and that just putting any O-ring in there is not a long term solution?

https://www.amazon.com/Glarks-Vehic...ps%2C271&sr=8-3

$9 and you're good for the next decade.

Motronic
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Grimey Drawer

spankmeister posted:

I've noticed certain cans of air duster have R134a in them. How stupid would it be to try and charge an AC system with those? Asking for a friend.

It's fine. I believe somewhere in my OP I describe/advise on charging with R152a from computer duster cans. You just need a side-puncture can tap, and there should be a link to one in the OP.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Yep. That's the one.

Also, if you have any doubt about your work pull your first vac with the old dryer to test. If it all looks good put in the new one and vac again.

Motronic
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Grimey Drawer

Applebees Appetizer posted:

What should the average temps be coming out of the vents? Read the OP and didn't see it in there.

Oh, good one. I'll have to find a chart and add that.

But basically - windows down, AC on high but NOT recirculate (so on fords do not use "max AC", on pretty much everything else just turn off recirc) and expect to see mid-40s if it about 90 degrees outside (from the center vent).

If you're seeing something in the mid 30s you're probably low on refrigerant. Same if it's low 50s or higher (in which case you probably have a TXV keeping your system from freezing up).

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009


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Grimey Drawer

Fender Anarchist posted:

That's with the car being parked in the shade, right? my car sucks up so much heat from the sun that it takes like 30 minutes to dump it all overboard and actually pull vent temps below 50

Yeah, sorry should have specified that. This is "the inside of the shop is 90" kind of conditions, and absolutely let the cabin get down to temp first. You're just trying to see how it's working when it's at "normal" operating conditions, not how well it struggles itself down from bring rocket hot.

If it's over 90 you probably need to throw a big shop fan in front of the condenser.

In my poking around, automotive AC doesn't really seem to have the same concept of delta T as fixed systems (very roughly - 20 degree differential between intake and output at normalish room temperatures), so I'm actually having trouble finding a chart. This is probably why I've always known it as "be somewhere like 38-48 if the outside temps aren't extreme" as the rule of thumb. Was going to try to get that more specific for the thread, but I'm coming up short at the moment.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Aug 9, 2019

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