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everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Was going to use this guide to try to diagnose my Isuzu Fargo van but A: I could not find the A/C fittings on it yet (engine is under the seats, will look under the van soon) and B: the gauges were $65 at Harbor Freight, wasn't expecting that. Would the $35 gauge sets on Amazon be OK?

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everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

By all reports these seem to work fine: https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTe...=gateway&sr=8-8

They look to be nearly the same as most of the $30-75 sets.

Cool, ordering now. Thanks!

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Itís probably in the front (assuming thatís where the radiator and condenser is). Thatís where my MR2ís connectors are at least.

Will look not sure that there is a way to open the front, might have to get at it from underneath

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

I hate to say this, I have this thread, I have the gauges...and I am just scared to crack open this Celsior (basically LS400) and have a go at it...this fear that I am going to screw it up or ruin the compressor or whatever...

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

OK here we go.

1992 Toyota Celsior (exact same engine as Lexus LS400).

AC not working. Hooked a gauge set to it I got to the point I figured no refrigerant. This system is still R12. Call an old guy who does work on the side. We tried to add R12 but Compressor would not turn on. He pulled the relay and jumped the compressor to turn on and it sucked down the refrigerant and AC was bitterly cold. Lasted a few days and now back to zero so obviously it all leaked out somewhere.

So compressor is good AC works but it is escaping somewhere. R12 is very expensive. This old guy wants to shoot the cheap R134 into it with dye to find leak he says he has filled dozens of cars without doing any changes and they have been fine.

So tell me why not to do this and what to do instead. If I can get the AC working and confidently know it is going to be rock solid going to list this vehicle on BAT. It has 19k actual miles and is amazing car.

Thanks for any opinions or info.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

To find the leak, no problem.


Filled is a different story - depends on what oil is in your system. If it's got mineral oil in it that's a no-go. You need to drain what oil you can from everywhere and put a sufficient amount of PAG or POE in there. If you don't get all the old oil out it's not the end of the world, you're just reducing the system capacity somewhat (that's my understanding and experience, but I bet someone will yell at me for that). But you absolutely DO need a sufficient amount of something that will actually mix with the 134 or it will end up killing your compressor. I've drained presumed mineral oil out as much as possible, put the entire rated amount of POE in and then charged with 134.

Be aware, it's not likely to be very cold when you're sitting in traffic.

If the old guy is up for a challenge have him fill it with R152a out of computer duster cans (and sufficient POE oil). It will be like a meat locker in there.

Thank you! Can you just use a can tap on the computer duster cans and puncture the side?

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

Yup. That's what I do. The skinny can's don't fit properly in mine so my elegant solution was to ball up some cardboard and duct tape it to the other "arm" of the can tap to make up the difference.

So letís pretend we find the leak and fix. Then I want to fill with computer duster. I know system holds 36 oz capacity. What oil do I add with it or how do I find out? 1992 Toyota 4.0 v8. OR is there a r134 with the correct oil in it? I just want to list car for sale but I donít sell things without it being fixed where it will stay fixed as far as I know.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

You don't want R134 with oil in it. It's such a pain in the rear end and it slugs the compressor if you do it wrong. You also have little control over how much is going in.

Bad news: stock fill is mineral.

http://techchoiceparts.com/refriger...apacities/lexus

Take out as much as you can and put in 7 oz of PAG 46. 36 oz of R12 would be replaced with about 27 ounces of R134a if the system is full capacity. It's going to be less than that since you're not going to get all the mineral oil out, so you'll have to charge by running pressures. If you want to go R152a - dammit I didn't put the spreadsheet I made up for conversion weights in the OP. Let me know if I need to dig it out for you.

Could I add a can or two of r152a and just see what happens? Would it be possible he overfilled it and it caused it to leak or is that impossible?

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

If he added enough to "make it leak" that's not a temporary condition: something was damaged.

And r152a is not miscible with mineral oil, so running it like that will trash the compressor in short order.

Good to know I did not understand that.

So my plan now is fill a can or so of r134 with dye to look for leak.

Then hope I identify leak and fix.

If I do so then fill with r12?

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

If I am confident I can fix the leak and it is really fixed I should be able to get enough R12 to get it most of the way full. Me being arrogant we used half of old dudes stash to fill it first, but I will take you up on your offer if needed. I at least have access to 18-24 oz probably from old guy. drat that was a big waste using it first but I was trying to do the right thing. Was empty, jumped the compressor and it sucked it down then everything worked perfectly. So I was like letís fill it to capacity! Goodbye $150.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Absolutely, I try to be responsible. I may take it to a shop I used to use. Not trying to waste money OR hurt the atmosphere.

EDIT: I took it to a shop I used to use who is right down from my store (working in isolation here) and they are desperate for work. Explained everything and they are going to try to find the leak. If they do and can be fixed might be contacting you about the R12 if we don't have to switch the whole system over to 134. Will keep you updated.

DOUBLE EDIT:

The shop evacuated the system, found a leaking O-Ring, has had it under pressure for 3 hours. They have literally one last stash of R12. With tax it is going to be $414, yes I could save money ordering the R12 myself but they are desperate for work and I have used them for nearly 10 years off and on and they strongly feel that this will be rock solid no other leaks. I said go ahead.

I will chalk up the previous money spent to learning some more about mysterious AC which I do know a lot more about thanks to Motronic, this thread and actually getting in there and doing stuff.

Edit:

Freshly fixed and filled with Motronicís tears, but are they tears of joy or sadness?



Edit part deux: It is nearly 80 today and driving the Celsior because I am picking up the kids and 4 doors (my youngest complains about "not having her own window" in the back of one of the Skylines) and AC not blowing cold! Compressor is coming on, I see the R12 flowing freely through the looking glass, WTF? It is back at the shop seeing if they can figure it out before I have to get it back in 2 hours to get the kids and go on lockdown. Dang it dang it

everdave fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 27, 2020

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

I scored 6 old cans of R12 for $50 total from FB marketplace and the shop i used said they looked and felt good. Got my 85 acty van with very rare factory ac, not blowing cold not hearing compressor come on hopefully I can get that sorted...

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

I checked at advance for you and with the 25% coupon after you turn the core back in part is $300 or so total with tax here probably less tax in TX

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

My Celsior woes appear again. After nearly 2 months of morgue like temperatures after ship found second leak in o rings it is now not cooling. I am not using it as it still has R12 and compressor running when activated (first time we had to jump it bc empty). I have a shot ton of dye, r12 and my old
Man mechanic coming tomorrow see if we can find this new leak. Not unexpected. A time capsule car that never had its ac turned on probably since 92 things dry out.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

My 20k mile 92 Celsior is fast approaching $1k in repairs and supplies and AC is failing again. The shop and myself assume it is leaking from evaporator behind dash. They can evacuate it and test for leaks all day and find none. Just had it done again with my own r12 it had lasted 2 months they evacuated checked leaks found none it took 2 cans of my stash. It is already almost back to non working. Compressor works fine until it gets too low where it wonít come on. Do I just give up or do I dig into the dash. Probably be another 6-900 in parts and labor I have 4 cans of r12 left. Frustrating to say the least. Was going to keep this as the family daily but if I keep pouring Money into AC maybe I should just get rid of it.

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

Is there dye in the system? That's how you find these leaks. Use a uv flashlight and it will light up like toxic waste.

Yes they have filled it with dye 4 times, first time found a big o ring, second time a tiny pinhole, and now last 2 can find no leaks with dye in it. When I took the kids to get ice cream yesterday when I came out there was quite a bit of water under where the glove box area/firewall would be on the asphalt (Iím talking like someone spilled a can of coke amount). I expect when we go to take car later to go to their moms it wonít be cooking at all

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Motronic posted:

So you need to actually look at the evap then. And all the other inconvenient places that it could be leaking.

This isn't rocket science, it's just labor.

Iím going full SEND and have ordered everything evap drier expansion poo poo and i forget it all. Gonna pull everything and redo it and convert to r134 the right way. You win this time Motronic! Except one part that only exists from 90-92 it is a pressure release or something that is $700 from lexus and unavailable rest of world it quiets the system when going from a high load to low. Prone to leakage and there are YouTube videos to bypass but if we convert to r134 and we donít bypass yet it is by cruise control under hood and we can test for leaks there. Expansion release valve? I donít know f it Iíve ordered all the parts but that. Going to do an apple car play equipped head unit and rear view cam while Dash is out too.

everdave fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jun 10, 2020

everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...


noted

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everdave
Nov 14, 2005

For The Record...

Does it matter inside an evaporator which side goes on which? All the American perfect match Toyota part # Evans have the inlets flip flopped from my RHD Celsior I cant even find a Celsior evap overseas. This car has been torn apart two weeks. Can we just file down the top big inlet side and attach the new USA evap? Itís like 19 vs 21 mm

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