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I just assumed all high schools were divided by loyalties to competing karate dojos and spectacular fights would break out whenever kids from rival dojos bumped into eachother on the streets or between classes. Is that not how your high schools were too?
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Apr 28, 2019 23:54
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iamsosmrt posted:Has anyone here actually taken karate classes? I've never done it, but I'm just curious how deep the classes and lessons tend to seep into people's lives. I mean it's clearly more important than life itself in Cobra Kai, but even in the original Karate Kid, it felt more like karate was more of a side component of Daniel learning life from Miyagi. My grandfather learned karate and Judo in Japan after the war, he became a black belt in both and a national judge in Judo in Australia. Two of his kids were champions here. One of them was for sure the Cobra Kai type, he's a twat. He told me in Japan it was very much live and breath the training.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:51
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Rocksicles posted:My grandfather learned karate and Judo in Japan after the war, he became a black belt in both and a national judge in Judo in Australia. Two of his kids were champions here. One of them was for sure the Cobra Kai type, he's a twat. Wait, your uncle is John Kreese and his dad is Daniel-San?
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Apr 29, 2019 01:00
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iamsosmrt posted:Wait, your uncle is John Kreese and his dad is Daniel-San? Better yet, my uncle is (probably was) a horse breaker and rodeo rider and professional drinker in Northern Australia. the scurge of many a pub. I didn't meet any of them until i was over 16, i grew up in England.
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Apr 29, 2019 01:03
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My best friend in high school was a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and when we did the yearly fitness test he literally couldn't do more than exactly 1 pull up I did 10  lol
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Apr 29, 2019 01:30
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Moriatti posted:only we find out he wasn't being genuine in that scene either. He may have enlisted but the text makes it unclear how much Kreese is lying about his past. Do you think this goes into Dmitri pointing out that Kreese's tattoo isn't correct for a SE Asian cobra? I mean, Kreese probably didn't get the tattoo in Vietnam, but who knows at this point? One of the neat things in the original Karate Kid was contrasting the WWII Vet with the Vietnam Vet and how their experiences shaped them. It's a similar story to what was going on in First Blood, where Teasle was a Korean War Vet who could not relate to Rambo, the Vietnam Vet. Regarding Daniel and his obsession with Cobra-Kai His wife does a great job of calling out how obsessed he is with the whole thing. Arguably what happened to Miguel was Daniel's fault. He is purposefully antagonizing Johnny and Cobra-Kai because he can't get over being bullied in high school even though Johnny and Co. had let it go then too. Daniel doesn't know when to quit and it's bit him in the rear end on more than one occasion. Hell, this season even sees Johnny be the bigger man by not throwing the first punch and Daniel breaking into Johnny's home instead of relaxing. It's quite the opposite of what Mr. Miyagi taught and goes into how easily he was seduced by the old Cobra-Kai in Karate Kid part 3.
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Apr 29, 2019 01:57
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SimonCat posted:
His wife does a job, but I wouldn't say it was great. She let his over-the-top efforts go on to the point where their business is impacted and they even lose a son. I need to see some interviews or something because I can't decide if Daniel's writing is bad or if he's intentionally this ridiculous. He never even bothered to figure out what kind of person Miguel was and why Sam was ever dating a kid who's only important trait to Daniel is that he's a Cobra Kai member. He's absolutely got a lot of culpability for all the poo poo that's gone down throughout the season. There's never a time where he tries diplomacy, but instead aggressively tries to compete with Cobra Kai and only teaches his students why they should basically always oppose and distrust Cobra Kai specifically, as opposed to simply focusing on self improvement. Daniel-San is a huge instigator and he's also kind of a dumbass for trusting that a teenage boy living in his house ain't going to try to hook up with his teenage girl. I kind of wish they made Robbie and Sam more realistic and start season 3 with a pregnancy angle.
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Apr 29, 2019 03:20
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I will say that Hawk becoming an 80s slasher villain by the season finale was not something I saw coming, but was fantastic. I almost feel like the show would be better if they didn't dump all 10 episode at once though, because I binged through them in one day and now what, have to wait a year for more?
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Apr 29, 2019 21:10
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iamsosmrt posted:His wife does a job, but I wouldn't say it was great. She let his over-the-top efforts go on to the point where their business is impacted and they even lose a son. I need to see some interviews or something because I can't decide if Daniel's writing is bad or if he's intentionally this ridiculous. He never even bothered to figure out what kind of person Miguel was and why Sam was ever dating a kid who's only important trait to Daniel is that he's a Cobra Kai member. Giving up on the spoiler tags because  I actually really like this about Daniel. He's got a lot of fast-talking Jersey swagger, always has, and kind of relies on it when calming the gently caress down would do a lot of good. He's always looking for an opportunity to lash out and overreact to something. It's why Miyagi was such a crucial influence on his life - he's always needed someone who can tell him when to just chill out and let a perceived insult go past. I also really like that he's never fully understood that lesson but his braggadocio demands that he thinks he does, so he does dumb stuff out of misplaced self-confidence like set up the Miyago-Do Dojo, adding fuel to the fire and making everything much, much worse. Miyagi himself would have done anything but. You can see how this works with Amanda too - she's obviously the down-to-earth, pragmatic brains of the relationship and he's the hot babe they put on the posters. Basically I think it's all great character writing. I do think it's a shame we don't get the same for Tory and some of the other background Cobra Kais, but I guess part of the story of the show is how all these individual kids end up considering themselves part of the same mass.
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Apr 29, 2019 22:39
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Often Abbreviated posted:You can see how this works with Amanda too - she's obviously the down-to-earth, pragmatic brains of the relationship and he's the hot babe they put on the posters. Which is ironic, because she's the smoke show of the relationship too.
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Apr 30, 2019 01:38
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Often Abbreviated posted:Giving up on the spoiler tags because That's a pretty good argument. I still can't say I'm a fan of the characterization, but you've rationalized it fairly well. I'll probably just have to let go of the more realistic season 1 and accept the Daniel shift for what it is. I'm still curious where his arc will lead him, as he's teetering on being an actual heel at this point. I kind of hope his wife leaves him and ends up with a guy who's actually grounded, humble and doesn't jeopardize all the important things in his life over a pointless and obsessive vendetta.
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Apr 30, 2019 05:30
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Apr 30, 2019 08:23
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iamsosmrt posted:I kind of hope his wife leaves him and ends up with a guy who's actually grounded, humble and doesn't jeopardize all the important things in his life over a pointless and obsessive vendetta. About the only thing his mid-life crisis is missing at this point is for him to start lusting after Tory so it could well be on the cards!
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Apr 30, 2019 18:20
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Daniel's wife is just a normal person thrown into an 80s movie and it's breaking her brain.
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May 1, 2019 07:10
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So i've got watch this, this week but after watching the first episode I can kinda tell that getting Kove to come back ate into the writing budget.
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May 1, 2019 18:21
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Yeah I'm sure his plate was full of offers. He probably begged to be a part of it.
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May 1, 2019 18:54
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Maybe Waah is saying the writing budget was a 2 for $5 McDonald's deal, and they're left with just one Big Mac. Also, after seeing a commercial for incontinence on TV, I realize Hawk was the one "villain" who had justifiable reason to murder his target. gently caress Demetri. Hawk let him hang around for awhile, all the way until he started poo poo talking the one thing Hawk clearly loved, Cobra Kai. Eli's clearly got anger issues, but Demetri was being a poo poo.
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May 1, 2019 20:56
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May 1, 2019 21:41
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Yeah Demetri's a real insufferable piece of poo poo. The most unrealistic thing in this TV show about duelling karate dojos was anyone bothering to listen to his lovely standup gig. Ah, I suppose they were all drunk as poo poo by that point and would have laughed at anything. ty for ur posting service Athanatos
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May 1, 2019 22:12
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So odd tangent, but Tori is played by Peyton List. Which is also the name of another well established actress so color me confused when I saw her name in the credits. I thought the guilds or whatever didn't let that poo poo happen?
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May 1, 2019 22:17
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Rhyno posted:So odd tangent, but Tori is played by Peyton List. Which is also the name of another well established actress so color me confused when I saw her name in the credits. I thought the guilds or whatever didn't let that poo poo happen? THANK YOU. I recognized her name but couldn't remember where I saw her, and was super confused when I looked at her IMDB and didn't recognize anything.
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May 1, 2019 23:03
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Actors often voluntarily change their name to avoid that but it's not enforced by SAG or anything afaik
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May 1, 2019 23:04
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Wait, there's two people in the world named Peyton List?
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May 1, 2019 23:34
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iamsosmrt posted:Wait, there's two people in the world named Peyton List? Peyton is a pretty popular name
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May 1, 2019 23:40
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iamsosmrt posted:Maybe Waah is saying the writing budget was a 2 for $5 McDonald's deal, and they're left with just one Big Mac. This. It's clear that the writing just isnt the same and I dont know if was lightning in a bottle or if it was less of an emphasis on it in favor of getting a wider audience.
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May 1, 2019 23:49
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What bugs me is that the good season 1 writers clearly had something in mind for this year, and I don't hate the Kreese storyline. There just wasn't much inspiration to the kids' storylines. Honestly, Tory with her one-note personality and total lack of backstory and motivation did a lot to mar the season. Her and Dmitry both
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May 2, 2019 00:53
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Medullah posted:Peyton is a pretty popular name I don't doubt it's a normal name, but it's not exactly Mary or something. Plus I've never heard of a single person of the surname List before. I'll accept the L. Propaganda Machine posted:What bugs me is that the good season 1 writers clearly had something in mind for this year, and I don't hate the Kreese storyline. There just wasn't much inspiration to the kids' storylines. Honestly, Tory with her one-note personality and total lack of backstory and motivation did a lot to mar the season. Her and Dmitry both Agreed, Tory has a decent screen presence and I had higher hopes for her, but they really dropped the ball on having her be a complete psycho for a pretty minor infraction. Hell, I think it would've been pretty easy to find other ways to have a big fight without it coming from a ridiculously scenario. I mean getting on the PA in high school and threatening a girl's life? She probably could've rounded up some kids and challenged Sam at Miyagi-do or something. Like, I'm not clear if it's even possible for her not to face prison time for what happened. Hah, as I think about it a little now, season 3 would realistically be about the national media spotlight and backlash against Cobra Kai and Daniel for producing the high school fight of the century with a ton of injuries (including a teacher), property damage and most importantly happening in a predominantly white community. LaRusso auto would probably fold under competitive pressure and Daniel having to answer for his star pupil and daughter's BF murdering a his daughter's ex at their school.
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May 2, 2019 01:12
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iamsosmrt posted:Has anyone here actually taken karate classes? I've never done it, but I'm just curious how deep the classes and lessons tend to seep into people's lives. I mean it's clearly more important than life itself in Cobra Kai, but even in the original Karate Kid, it felt more like karate was more of a side component of Daniel learning life from Miyagi. I'm gonna write too many words here that no one will care about but... I own a martial arts school and have been teaching/training/fighting/coaching for almost 35 years. I saw the original film when I was 13 and I knew right then that I would devote my life to martial arts. I started in Tae Kwon Do and later turned to Kenpo Karate and then settled on muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Kali, and Silat. I'm also lucky that my wife and 3 of my 5 kids train so there's naturally a big interest in my household. We fight each other constantly and it is a blast. So the lessons I teach (and learn!) do seep into my life even after decades because it's just such a core component to my life. A lot of the professional fighters and coaches that I know are the same way. The students though, not so much especially today vs when I started and in the 90s. Back in the day when the movie was released there was more mystery around the arts in general and NINJAS were absolutely loving everywhere in popular media and kids really wanted some way to capture that mystique and play superhero. Before the rise of MMA and the UFC, the only place to really do that was in Tae Kwon Do and other similar schools. Those schools often focus on a lot of young kids so naturally there will be a lot of child development going on and those lessons definitely go home with most kids. There wasn't much in the way of muay Thai or jiu-jitsu and most people then had never heard of anything other than Kung Fu, Karate, and Judo. So back then it was pretty easy and common for the ~~~spiritual~~~~ lessons to be taught in the first place and for them to have more of an impact on students. Today the UFC/MMA has exposed most of the woo-woo mysticism poo poo but a lot is still out there and people do get very invested in it. As I mentioned before age plays a big role but it also depends on the specific art. For example, various styles of Silat have a lot of Islamic tradition and spirituality to them. It's up to the individual whether or not they want to embrace that part of it. I'll teach that stuff if a student is interested but I don't practice it myself. Schools that I've attended or taught at often did have a rivalry with a crosstown dojo but it was limited to competitive arenas. I have kicked out many students over the years that chose to take the rivalry to school or whatever. Anyway I'm only halfway through S2 but love it slightly less than S1. Cobra Kai is the better school. gently caress Miyagi-do! late edit: also the show is pretty accurate in the respect that are some pretty fuckin crazy and psychopathic instructors out there. The Kreese character is all too real isaboo fucked around with this message at 04:57 on May 2, 2019 |
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May 2, 2019 02:06
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precision posted:Actors often voluntarily change their name to avoid that but it's not enforced by SAG or anything afaik I'd honestly be kind of surprised if this was a SAG production in the first place.
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May 2, 2019 02:19
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pahuyuth posted:I'm gonna write too many words here that no one will care about but... Thanks for that insight. That's pretty cool and I totally agree on the last line. Just out of curiosity, have you ever used any of these martial arts in a real life fight? 80s and 90s action flicks tended to treat martial arts experts as human weapons who could defeat groups of thugs in hand to hand combat with exaggerated theatrics and poses, but the last 15 or so years have seen movies/TV shift to a grittier, more realistic depiction of all out combat. Cobra Kai is the first time in awhile I've seen actual karate depicted earnestly as a threatening martial art for outside combat (Johnny vs. the bully teens in s1, possible spoiler scene in s2). I find these scenes both cool and funny at the same time, because it is pretty ridiculous that these attacks would work in a real altercation.
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May 2, 2019 02:34
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Aside from fighting in the ring I was a bouncer off and on for about 15 years both in the US and abroad and have been involved in a lot of real life fights. The fighting stuff I've seen so far in the show is ridiculous and for the most part useless but the film was the same way. It was just a different time and ~Karate~ was really the only thing most people were familiar with. It would be kind of hard to keep the spirit of the film if the show was about MMA instead of Karate, but it would be far more realistic. As you said though, the film was more about learning life lessons than the fighting.
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May 2, 2019 02:42
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waah posted:This. It's clear that the writing just isnt the same and I dont know if was lightning in a bottle or if it was less of an emphasis on it in favor of getting a wider audience. I think it's just a classic sophomore slump. I mean Johnny was still written very well, as were many of the sub plots. I think earlier the poster nailed it when saying it's like they listened to the wrong feedback about what made S1 great. The inclusion of Stingray shows this pretty well.
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May 2, 2019 03:01
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:I'd honestly be kind of surprised if this was a SAG production in the first place. Why? Can you even hire SAG actors to star in something without a union contract?
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May 2, 2019 03:29
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precision posted:I think it's just a classic sophomore slump. I mean Johnny was still written very well, as were many of the sub plots. I think earlier the poster nailed it when saying it's like they listened to the wrong feedback about what made S1 great. The inclusion of Stingray shows this pretty well. quote:I'm gonna write too many words here that no one will care about but... I don't think the writers have suddenly declined in quality, but I do suspect they had a lot more time to polish the S1 script whilst shopping it around. The characters, most of the actual script, the major and minor plots I think are still great, but what starts to suffer is, I don't know if there's a fancy writing term for this, but I'm calling it "infrastructure". The reasons for a particular character to have an interaction with another character at a certain time. The infrastructure in a show like this always needs to be pretty circuitous and circumspect because most TV dramas fall apart if everyone gets a chance to talk out their problems round a table. So you need to come up with good reasons why people don't, why there's a particular series of interactions that lead to the situation deteriorating. You already know the situation is going to deteriorate because of a Robbie - Samantha - Miguel - Tory love/hate quad but you don't quite know yet how to arrange things for maximum hurt and confusion. A script that's had a lot of time for polish and redrafting can accomplish this very elegantly, so you don't even notice it's happening. The characters are just following their motivations and desires in a way that naturally leads to them hurting each other - Hurting from a loss-by-proxy to Cobra Kai, Daniel sets up a rival Dojo. Of course it's taken a lot of work to design the characters and their motivations such that they believably act that way but the reward is an engaging, believable series of events. Scripts that have had less time for polish will kludge in easy fixes - Sam and Robbie arrange a date at the roller rink, where we've established Tory works and will be meeting Miguel later. This starts to feel a little contrived but it's a story and you need things to happen so hey ho write it up and move on. The real trouble starts when you haven't had enough time even for that. When you know something needs to happen for a dramatic story beat - Daniel and Johnny need to nearly reconcile again for maximum pathos - but you can't figure out how they meet and the script's due tomorrow - Daniel and Johnny independently arrange double-dates at the same time at the same restaurant, that is sufficiently booked up that they have to sit at adjoining tables. This is now Bad Writing. It can be saved by good characters, good dialogue, good acting, a willing audience, but really you should have come up with something better than this. And there's just too much of that third category in S2. Too many cases of people just happening to run into each other at the wrong time in order to move the plot forward. Which probably means that your central characters don't have enough motivation, which probably means they shouldn't be your central characters, which probably means S2 should have shifted much more focus onto Kreese and Tory as the gently caress-things-up, burn-poo poo-down, can-do players that you really need to move a story forwards.
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May 2, 2019 10:25
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Season 2 really suffered from a lack of failson drinking butter.
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May 2, 2019 10:46
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I really enjoyed season 2 and thought it was very good and fun
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May 3, 2019 17:19
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I do think it suffered from 3 main issues IMO which I hope they can course correct but may just be the nature of the beast: 1) In order to keep the drama up everyone had to start acting just a little stupider. Daniel is the main victim of this, but the misunderstandings that happened in the first season seemed a lot more real and organic, whereas here you had to have people just flat out not communicate or assume the absolute worst of every situation. 2) Growing out of this, it seems like a big part of the season required Miguel and Johnny to be out of the center of the drama in order to keep them more "innocent" or relatable or whatever. So e.g. while the other Cobra Kais were feuding Miguel was often over in the corner writing texts or emails or whatever to Sam. Same with Johnny needing to take a few eps off in order to Kreese to start getting his hooks in. So arguably the two main characters were vestigial to the central conflict and just caught the worst of it by the end of the season. 3) Basically every single conflict immediately exploded into a karate fight. In the first season there was a little of that but it was always more organic and the biggest fights came in actual dojo/tournament scenarios, not like brawls in the mall or parties or at school or whatever. I think it was still really good but I think the natural instinct was to ramp things up with more karate and more drama, and something was lost. Like I read an interview where the idea for the school fight grew out of not wanting every season to end with a tournament, which is probably a good idea but leads to some heightened ridiculousness.
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May 3, 2019 17:44
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Just got done watching season 2. Pretty good. Season 1 was better though. But lol if they bring back Terry Silver next season. They have to now, so that he can join up with Kreese again. And then Johnny is gonna team up with Danny lmao. loving lets go.
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May 4, 2019 03:44
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Guy A. Person posted:I do think it suffered from 3 main issues IMO which I hope they can course correct but may just be the nature of the beast: I mean, he does say it should be used in defense only, but doesn't ever say that giving a kid a roundhouse kick could probably break his neck or something, and that maybe they should try to disarm people rather than cripple them. The seasons should be longer, either lengthier episodes or more of them. It just felt like they left way too many things in the air at the end. What happened to Tory and Robbie? How does Johnny feel about Robbie now? Does Daniel feel any responsibility? teagone posted:Just got done watching season 2. Pretty good. Season 1 was better though. But lol if they bring back Terry Silver next season. They have to now, so that he can join up with Kreese again. And then Johnny is gonna team up with Danny lmao. loving lets go.
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May 4, 2019 05:20
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Tory was in the dojo at the end so at least she's not in jail though Daniel seemed dead-set on having her expelled. Robbie.  Felt like they weren't sure which direction they wanted to go so they left it open. I could see a time skip happening with something like Robby getting out of juvi and Miguel finishing rehab to start s3.
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May 4, 2019 06:07
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