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yodar
Apr 5, 2016
I have never played any Starforce game, but I loved the LP of MMSF2 on the Archives and hopefully this one will also be entertaining. So far it's off to a good start :)

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yodar
Apr 5, 2016

giver336 posted:

In fairness, Super Armoris fairly strong as an ability for S-ranks. Not sure if I'd like that early on, as that wouldn't incentivize me to learn how to dodge and counter properly.

I love Super Armor insanely. I've pretty much relied upon it to 100 percent MMBN2 and S rank the Navis in MMBN6. Only game I didn't need SuperArmor for S Ranks was Team Protoman somehow. No idea how I pulled that off.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Supremezero posted:

Oh, Starforce carried over one of the exactly 2 good ideas of MMBN4, having you actually fight generic navi's rather than just having them chuck viruses at you all the time. Neat.

nb4 this is the only time

Like I always say, every bad game has one or two good things. Like Reshef of Destruction, with its lesson that breaks are good too, which I always find hard to implement.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Yeah, that was a surprise to me, too.

I found that once as a kid by sheer accident. For me beating Thunderman took a week tho

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
So does that mean this LP will be abandoned indefinitely?

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
I think I know the truth: Yeti and Giver are two sides of the same coin. Yeti is the cautious, regular MMBN player and is calm and collected. Giver was created when Yeti felt rage at bosses he couldn't defeat and is a boss at MMBN but full of snark and sarcasm. In time both were able to co-exist and Yeti was able to use his Giver powers at will. That led to the current situation.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Does the ACDC kidnapping in Battle Network 6 count? It's not active, but it's the closest I can think of.

It doesn't. Glide didn't arrange for the villains to kidnap Megaman there, it was just ill luck. Zack on the other hand pretty much willingly told Sonia's manager: 'Hey I saw ur cash cow get on a bus. Go after her!'

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Tunicate posted:

treating Mr. Hertz well? That doesn't have a GHOST of a chance

I dunno if it's my hypomania but I love your pun. Reminds me of Yugioh when Yugi fights that gay clown.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Quackles posted:

Oh man, a MMSF LP! This'll be fun.

Fun fact: When I played MMSF, I named Geo "Lan Hikari" and was disappointed when MMSF2 and 3 don't give you the naming option.

I don't blame u. Lan was a cool protagonist.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
So I have constructive criticism. I love the commentary of you both, Yeti's matter of factness combined with Giver's snark. You make a good duo. However, is it really necessary to include EVERY description and line of text? It feels like very little plot is being shown per update but it's primarily descriptions and dialogue. I feel like a lot more plot could be shown if there were less descriptions. Other than that I love this LP and how amazing Geo is. Having a depressed main character is very original

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

GeneralYeti posted:

Thank you for the compliments, first of all. Giver probably appreciates them too, the little gremlin.

In regards to the description/line of text: My personal opinion is that the dialogue is more important in general compared to Battle Network. There's more nuance in how the characters interact with each other, and I want to try to capture that in this LP. Is every single line of dialogue necessary? Not strictly speaking, no. But, honestly? Each scenario only takes 3-4 updates, 5 at worst. I could probably compress that to maaaaybe 3 updates - one to start, one for FM-ian loving poo poo up, and one for the resolution. I wouldn't be cutting much, in the end. Libra Scales is just bad about that because of the whole Star Trials thing.

(Also checking out the environment happens only on new areas and so is only one per scenario at best; and, I only include talking to new NPCs at this point. There was none of it at all in the Harp Note scenario.)

Ah ok I see your point. I was under the impression that showing the dialogue and descriptions was cutting down on plot size but apparently that's not the case so my apologies. I too find the dialogue very interesting: I used to talk to every single person every day in Battle Network to experience all their dialogue and I used to be addicted to Runescape quests, because of, you guessed, it, dialogue. Thank you for replying to me.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Luna is obnoxious, sure, but she occasionally gets some good moments that show she's not a complete jerk. Like early on when she helps Bud fix all of the things he broke as Taurus Fire.

While later games do kinda have Luna be a bit over the top with her overbearing mannerisms, she's never really bad enough to the point where she's on, say, Chisao's level.

Chisao was only really messed up in MMBN4. In MMBN3 he just idolized his brother incredibly but it was cute. In MMBN4 that kid is just messed up. Faking his own kidnapping? Like what the Hell Chisao?

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

BisbyWorl posted:

Plus the fact that Chisao pretty much only shows up for those few scenarios.

Luna may not be as bad as BN4 Chisao, but she's also part of the core friend group so she'll be around pretty much constantly.

I'm replaying Red Sun and there Chisao appears in Dex's house during the preliminaries of the first tournament. But yeah other than that he only shows up very rarely. Currently in the Tetsu scenario and EPM was right: it's stupid and is major filler.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

GeneralYeti posted:

Why.

Why are you doing this. How dare you do this, how dare you jettison our gift?!

I sometimes have attacks of something a lot like hypomania and during the last episode I decided to buy Red Sun via Amazon to hundred percent it. However Red Sun is...annoying and I can only do it when hypomanic so I play it very very rarely. I'm just SO GLAD I did not buy Blue Moon cuz gently caress Metal Man's rock smashing minigame. Also there's the whole Woodman glitch

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Polderjoch posted:

BN5 was honestly still suffering from a lot of the poo poo BN4 did to the series, chip availability and lobotomization of the plot in favour of total swaps between versions mainly, but yeah honestly the main quartet of Dex/Yai/Mayl/Chaud taking a massive backseat, which didn't even recover in BN6 either considering Chaud in that game also isn't present until the second to last area anyway is still incredibly weird. We did get Colonel who's fantastic but still, he's honestly still hurt by BN5 being marred by BN4's version exclusive bullshit.

I played BN4 to 100% completion a year or two ago after always getting burned out around Eagle/Hawk/whatever because of loving park area, and yeah, I don't ever want to touch that game again. Shame because I'll admit the transformations in Red Sun are overall probably among the coolest BN4-6 transformations but the rest of the game is just actively painful to go through.

Liberation Missions are great though and make up for literally everything else in BN5, even for the rest of BN5's areas being garbage.
Thinking about it, I'm pretty surprised BN6 and SF1's areas actually have been holding up as well as they did after how badly designed BN4 and 5's were in general.

Could you give me tips on beating Duo when I get that far? Never made it past Duo without Wood Soul. And I LOVE Liberation Missions. Great test of skill

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Faillen Angel posted:

duo's fight takes place outside, so gun del sol chips are powered up; don't use them for PileDriver, as the power is cut in half

most chips that require ground are useless; this includes airhockey, circlegun, breaths, mokorush, etc. However, bighammer chips may be useful, as it's possible to kite duo into it.

colorpoint/doublepoint alongside supervulcan are high-risk choices; catching duo with SV can leave him seriously injured, and it's fairly easy to get a counter hit and stun him with it if you start a little early, but it makes it impossible to dodge bighook unless you can areagrab the row back.

basically every soul you could have except windsoul offers something, though which ones you have are randomized so i can't give specific tips aside from gutssoul being wonderful for supervulcan.

videomansp is the best chip in the game if you have access to it.

Thanks for the tips! I'll try all that

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
Nearly quit Red Sun due to the Crusher stealth section. MAN stealth sections on the GBA r a special kind of Hell. Hopefully I don't have to repeat it cuz it is ANNOYING. Sadly there's a high chance I have to fight loving Windman (on my first playthrough) so chances of beating Duo r slim

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Battle Network 6 made an attempt to give its villains some level of depth (aside from Blackbeard and Yuika, who notably just become Team Rocket in the anime). And I guess Capcom saw how well that worked out and decided to keep that going for the next game.

I most can connect with the lawyer dude whose name I can't remember in BN6. He had a beautiful dream but the corruption of the world drove him mad. TBH I'll probably end up the same way. Mr Mach was also an amazing villain.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
I'm kinda suspicious about whether the EM Human thing really happens in MMSF1 based on what Yeti or Giver wrote in that deception paragraph. BUT it is a pretty interesting cutscene.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
I liked this update. A good mix of NPC dialogue and flavor text and plot. Well done Yeti and Giver.

As for Luna, I honestly feel for her the most, since I'm also someone who struggles with not being good enough for my parents' dreams for me

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

GeneralYeti posted:

I'm in the minority here but I honestly prefer SF1's text boxes, despite how awkward some of them can be. The mod does look like it's going to provide a lot of interesting stuff, and depending on how things work out Giver and I might try to show off some of the changes.

Please do. It'd be nice.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

GeneralYeti posted:

Sorry for it being a bit between updates. Giver's got some other things going on so he can't get the co-comm done for a bit.

If you're paying attention to, basically anything going on with the forums these days, don't worry - I'll finish up this LP. I'm not putting it anywhere else at the moment but I do have a saved copy of each update so if anything bad does happen I can switch over pretty easily.

Thanks for the headsup. Man the Starforce1 LP is kind of cursed. Also what's been going on with the Forum if I may ask? And I hope you and Giver are well and have so far avoided being sick.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

BisbyWorl posted:

The tl'dr is that Lowtax got outed as a serial spouse abuser, so people started fleeing from SA due to a mix of not wanting to be on a site run by a serial spouse abuser and the fear that he'll just outright nuke the forums out of spite.

There's a global sticky up that says Lowtax has agreed to give over the assets to Jeffrey, but who knows how that will play out in the long run.

Oh frick. That's not good at all :(
It would suck if SA died since it's given us some great LP's but I also get why ppl r boycotting it. Hopefully forums don't get nuked and Jeffrey is a good new leader

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blaziken386 posted:

The LP Archive is backed by the Internet Archive, it's pretty damned stable. Even if the SAwful servers were literally set on fire, it'd stay up.

Phew that's a relief. There's some really good LP's on that archive (EPM's, Bitz Blast's, Camel Pimp's, Crosspiece's, etc)

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
Honestly I feel for Luna and never hated her even though she has terrible character development. Her parents are controlling and don't really love her and honestly I think it's only due to the fact it's a kid's game that they change even as much as they do, tho that might be my own bitterness talking. I also have issues with parents like Luna's so yeah I feel for Luna and understand. Honestly she handles it quite well for all the trauma she's dealing with and doesn't deserve the hate

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

trust me be careful on the Internet. I was not and now I'm dealing with homelessness due to mental illness and I've caused defamation for my family so like, yeah. Internet stuff rlly screws u over in the end, especially if you lose touch with reality like me. Safest is just to fuckin write stuff down or word of mouth.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:



I don't have a lot of experience with DID, so I don't know if the alternate personality is generally treated as their own person; I would assume so, all things considered. But it's kind of scary to think that Gemini can take an alternate personality and turn it into an actual physical entity!


I like Gemini as a boss more in Star Force 2, where you can defeat them both at the same time or defeat one before the other and cause the latter to get a power-up to one of their attacks.

As someone who might have DID and who has interacted with many people with DID, how it works is the brain splits due to intense childhood trauma, sometimes into one other part, sometimes into 4 or more, and those parts end up taking over the body at different moments and can be interacted with in the brain. However where Starforce 1 gets it wrong is there aren't just evil personalities in DID. There tends to be one (the persecutor) but there's also a bunch of others, like a child personality, a caretaker personality, the trauma holder, etc. Also it's very rare for the main personality to share the memories of the other personalities (also known as alters) and for it to be aware of what the alters do unless other people tell them; mostly there's amnesia between alters and some memories only a specific alter has access to. DID is complex and some doctors don't believe in it at all, which is a whole other can of worms, but in short it's far more complex than Starforce 1 makes it seem and it is VERY rare for someone to know on their own that they have alters, so the fact that Rey somehow knows is not very accurate. Also switches between alters are not nearly so fast as Starforce 1 claims; in reality switches can last hours or days, not seconds.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Discendo Vox posted:

DID's use as stock plot device in japanese media is almost always really uncomfortable; it stinks that it's such a common trope. "My childhood trauma was so horrific that my personality fractured and I experience periods where I go into a fugue and some other part of "me" that I don't recognize or remember engages in self-harm" does not translate well into "my parents didn't love me, so I've got two personalities that you can recognize because my eyes light up different colors! They talk to each other and have themed names, and one has fire theming and the other has ice!" or worse, the alters have powers making them a superior fantastic escapist form, like a superhero persona. Ick. It shows up in US media but it's way less common.

Yeah DID is amazingly misrepresented in media and it's super harmful to people that develop it since they worry they're psychopaths, possessed, whatever since DID is often portrayed that way. It's heartbreaking.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blaziken386 posted:

Japan is also, IIRC, astonishingly bad when it comes to dealing with mental health, so, :v:

So is Holland. I've seen six therapists. None of them have helped me so far.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Discendo Vox posted:

I’m not really demanding realism so much as saying that this is part of a pattern of really bad treatment of an adult topic and that it’d be infinitely better to not use it in their kids sentai game.

Yeah all the other adult topics are dealt with pretty well I think, but DID is demonized

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Junpei posted:

The thing is, from a pure, writing and story-only perspective, I can see why the fictional version of DID is so appealing. It allows for some interesting twists and ideas, like a character who 'betrays' a group or person but feels guilty about it, any number of self-doubt and guilt-based tropes, and appealing drama with regards to 'the monster inside', a lot like werewolf characters.

But you can do those without demonizing a real-life mental illness, I'll admit. You can do a lot of those with stuff like a 'two souls stuck in one body' situation, or demonic possession, or werewolves, like I mentioned.

Agreed. Have it be that instead of Rey being a persecutor he is a misguided PROTECTOR who doesn't want to have a Brother Band with Geo because he's worried Pat will get hurt. He wants the Andromeda Key to wipe out humanity so they can't hurt Pat anymore. That way you give more awareness of DID And you don't make it seem something super dark.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

That would give an interesting additional layer to Rey being the only one with HP.

I mean protectors do often block off the trauma from the rest of the system to protect it, so it's kind of the same concept as Rey being the only one to have HP, a.k.a. only he could be hurt but not Pat, if he were a protector, in order to protect Pat better.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Starforce4 posted:

Reading this playthrough and watching your battles has been eye opening for me in terms of how good some of these cards I never gave a second look are. I just stuffed my deck full of the elemental swords and called it a day.

After reading the Starforce 3 LP I've considered getting Starforce 3 but the Omega Navis having super low encounter rates and the fact that I don't know which version is the right one for me to get kind of discourage me. It seems cool tho.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Polderjoch posted:

I've heard about the SF3 LP but I've never had problems getting the Omega Navis to appear, if anything when I played they showed up so often in some areas at early points in the game I just had to deal with getting put at 1 HP randomly every once in a while.
The version probably changes the most in SF3 out of the Star Force games but ultimately it doesn't matter much.

Aah I see so the Omega Navis aren't amazingly, supremely rare then. Good to know.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
Yeah even tho you have a shield in Starforce it doesn't equal the fun of Battle Network where you had to focus on dodging all obstacles. My greatest memories of the game are S Ranking the Navis in Megaman Battle Network 5 after weeks of practice, by finally managing to dodge their attacks after what felt like forever

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blaziken386 posted:

I took a moment to play Starforce 3 the other day, and my main issues re: the battle system is that I am simply bad at it. Lock-on Feature is good, making you focus more on countering is a nice idea, etc. I just have terrible depth perception and can't aim for poo poo when I'm not looking at the field from a top-down perspective. That, and the lack of chip codes means there's quite literally zero reason to not fill your folder with ridiculously OP chips. IE: Using Magnum in BN3 had the tradeoff of either tailoring your folder to use the same code, or having a turn where you could only use one or two chips. In Starforce...
:v:

Aah if you need depth perception for Starforce then maybe best that I not buy it. I have an eye condition that makes me unable to see very accurately in depth (basically one eye sees slightly higher than the other eye) so guess I should stick to BN. I'm going to replay BN5 during Christmas since it's my favorite BN game. Sadly my former housemate took DTDS with him when he moved out, but I have the GBA version still so I can handle it. I just hope I can still do the Trial of a Hundred Foes.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Starforce4 posted:

I think one of the best parts of SF3 is that it encourages you to break it over your knee. Balanced? No. Fun? Oh yeah.

The most fun games let you break it over your knee. I think I hate MMBN4 since until playthrough 3 or maybe 2 you lack firepower needed to really destroy things since the chips barely do any damage. If not for the Buster Max Lotto Number playthrough one would be hellish. (Am slowly heading for playthrough 2 once I get all the stuff from playthrough 1)

yodar
Apr 5, 2016

Blueberry Pancakes posted:

Battle Network 4 at least has Buster Pack, one of the best NCPs in the series. At least before it got oversized to be nearly unusable in later games.

Buster Pack is the only reason I might make it to Playthrough 2. I agree it is pretty insanely good. MMBN4 just has such bad chip selection that after a while you get bored using the buster. But you can't use the amazing chips because otherwise Megaman Dark Soul will be impossible to beat as well.

yodar
Apr 5, 2016
I never played Starforce 1 so never knew the ending (I read the LP's of 2 and 3). Starforce 1 was honestly not a bad game story wise, even if it does demonize DID. It shows the effects of trauma on the psyche which is drat impressive for a kid's game.

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yodar
Apr 5, 2016
Awesome LP and quite enjoyable to read. Giving a description of every little real world object was a bit much, but I really appreciate that you transcribed the entire dialogue and it was quite interesting to see how difficult Zack's sidequest is and how OP Pegasus MagicSP is. Good job you two.

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