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Did she give her 3.6 stars?
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Feb 27, 2020 14:45
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Not great, not terrible
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Feb 27, 2020 18:40
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Kassad posted:What did she think about Khomyuk's character?
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Feb 27, 2020 19:46
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Can't believe she wouldn't validate my lovely sexism
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Feb 28, 2020 00:26
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Xander77 posted:The entire miners-minister confrontation. She thinks US workers might \ would like to treat their bosses that way, but the whole thing couldn't have happened in the USSR. I think they touched on this in the podcast. My understanding is the USSR was desperately hungry for electricity supply, hence the rush on building nuclear plants, the rush on dangerous tests like at Chernobyl, and until they could get enough nuke plants built, they were heavily reliant on coal plants, and hence, the coal miners really did have a level of power beyond what we think any Soviet workers would have had. Sure, they could have shot them all or sent them to the gulags, but then you still had the problem of no one to dig the coal. Even pressing conscripts into service would have been of little use with no mining experience, the demand was that unforgiving and relentless. Some lessons at least were learnt from Stalinist purges.
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Feb 28, 2020 03:50
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I assume you're being metaphorical since the gulag system was decades dead by 1986, but it made me think of my second-least-favorite thing about the show: the scenes where people get threatened with being shot or thrown out of helicopters were garbage. Summary execution in the USSR for any reason, let alone "disagreeing with the boss," stopped pretty much when Stalin died. By the 80s there was a well-developed code of civil rights regarding access to lawyers and fair trials that was pretty similar to what prevailed in the west. Even references to labor camps are bullshit, as the USSR had a prison system similar to western ones without the perverted incentive of privatization and for-profit imprisonment. Even the KGB couldn't arrest someone "just because" and western media that still capitalizes on that stuff for drama is using a red scare bogeyman in an ahistorical way. Capital D-dissidents were certainly pursued and persecuted (in ways that approach but do not meet how the US in particular has targeted Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, etc), political crimes were prosecuted, but never led to the death penalty let alone a summary bullet. So while there definitely was political repression and well documented state paranoia, it was nothing like what is depicted as a possible consequence in Chernobyl or indeed any western depiction of the USSR after Stalin. My source on this is Moshe Lewin's The Soviet Century and also not being a bought-and-paid-for western ideologue. My least favorite thing about the show was that a show about truth and lies in 2019 that is obviously about our current political climate utterly fails to close its argument. That ending montage was focused 100% on the past, whereas I'd have preferred if it showed some teeth and picked some contemporary targets. They really should have included some current government-caused or -proximal ecological disasters, especially American or Chinese ones. Show some drat guts and say something about the specific present rather than hanging everything on a nebulous idea or you're doing the theme of your show a disservice, imo. I still loved many things about the snow but those were the weakest elements, for me.
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Feb 28, 2020 04:31
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BuckyDoneGun posted:Sure, they could have shot them all or sent them to the gulags What Van Dis said. ... Also, the Soviet Union tied every one of your prospects in life to your steady employment. Want a new apartment, a new car, the right to travel abroad (within the Warsaw pact)? Better not do anything so stupid that you end up getting fired (or worse yet, quit your job without the most ironclad of convincing reasons)*. That was more than enough to hold everyone in line, without any threats of (jfc) "being shot or sent to the gulags". You'd think that would make for an interesting subject to discuss, the enforcement of political conformity just by way of indulging or denying very commonplace consumerist urges, but I guess not. * And to be perfectly fair, if an administrator had to resort to firing someone, that meant they weren't doing their best as managers and communists, and their performance reviews would suffer. If a worker lagged behind, their direct supervisor was expected to straighten them out for the benefit of the collective, not toss them out. (Which in turn meant that slackers and drunkards were routinely tolerated). Xander77 fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 20:51
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What you guys are describing sounds like being on active duty in the US Army right now. Guaranteed pay housing and employment but a complete restriction on your liberties.
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Feb 28, 2020 21:23
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There is some rose-colored nostalgia for the old Soviet system these days, almost all of it from people who were too young to actually experience it and most of whom grew up in the largess of Western post-Capitalism. I trust the dozens of survivors, historians, and witnesses who all say the show is a faithful and mostly accurate recreation. As for the threats of summary execution or gulags, police routinely threaten crazy poo poo that they can't do here in America, in TYOOL 2020, so  to you all poo-pooing even the idea that these threats carried some cultural weight, even if they were no longer actually practiced at the time.I'm sure if the head of the CIA put you in a bunker and threatened to shoot you in the head because you're a terrorist, you would all calmly explain to him that such an act would be ~very~ illegal and a violation of your civil rights. 
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Feb 29, 2020 01:03
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None of what I've said is at all controversial to people who "know anything" about the history of communism. If you ask Russians what their view is of the communist years, and of the careerists and apparatchiks and saboteurs who dismantled Soviet communism, they are resoundingly clear. And if you ask eastern Europe, it turns out a whopping 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. For every expat posting about how the Soviet Union was "dirty" or whatever there are many thousands of Russians and other former Soviet citizens who wish they could live under a system which provided for human needs and aspirations as well as the one their parents enjoyed (and their grandparents built). None of this absolves the USSR of its failures but if the show invites a comparison between lies and truth, and furthermore contains scenes like the one with Khomyuk and the former shoe factory foreman, it is implying that Soviet practices (corrupt, idiotic, backwards, identity-negating) find their antithesis in American meritocracy (noble, earned, righteous, self-affirming). That's why it needed to acknowledge something contemporary in that closing montage.
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Feb 29, 2020 02:01
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I'm sure if the head of the CIA put you in a bunker and threatened to shoot you in the head because you're a terrorist, you would all calmly explain to him that such an act would be ~very~ illegal and a violation of your civil rights. I'm trying to imagine the CIA swooping in to arrest some US government official in the middle of testifying to Congress and then taking them underground to shoot them in a bunker beneath Washington. Definitely something that has actually happened.
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Feb 29, 2020 02:15
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:There is some rose-colored nostalgia for the old Soviet system these days, almost all of it from people who were too young to actually experience it and most of whom grew up in the largess of Western post-Capitalism. But I'd rather not concede your stupid premise to begin with; I was born in the USSR and it has always fascinated me. Beyond reading as much as I could and talking to expats about how things changed between the 80's and the 90's, I've also dedicated a large part of my Political Science B.A to the way things worked in Soviet Russia and 1990's FSU. I've shared my knowledge for fun and profit in several places, including on SA. If that bothers you... well, good. It's probably cognitive dissonance due to constant brainwashing you underwent growing up in the USA, where "the Russkies are evil barbarians and there's absolutely no difference between 1937 and 1987" is apparently STILL a thing.
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Feb 29, 2020 08:12
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Van Dis posted:I assume you're being metaphorical since the gulag system was decades dead by 1986, but it made me think of my second-least-favorite thing about the show: the scenes where people get threatened with being shot or thrown out of helicopters were garbage. Summary execution in the USSR for any reason, let alone "disagreeing with the boss," stopped pretty much when Stalin died. By the 80s there was a well-developed code of civil rights regarding access to lawyers and fair trials that was pretty similar to what prevailed in the west. Even references to labor camps are bullshit, as the USSR had a prison system similar to western ones without the perverted incentive of privatization and for-profit imprisonment. Even the KGB couldn't arrest someone "just because" and western media that still capitalizes on that stuff for drama is using a red scare bogeyman in an ahistorical way. my thoughts exactly. maybe not something so overt as like the whiplash ending of Blackkklansman, but definitely something to tie it to the parallel global problems we're facing today as a species, rather than a time capsule look at a specific localized crisis from the past. too many of my centrist liberal friends who otherwise have criticisms about the us government watched this and were unironically like "wow that was terrible! good thing we live in the glorious shining beacon of the west where this never happens" *pretends to take a sip from a glass of flint water*
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Mar 3, 2020 10:32
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Van Dis posted:Even references to labor camps are bullshit, as the USSR had a prison system similar to western ones without the perverted incentive of privatization and for-profit imprisonment. Even the KGB couldn't arrest someone "just because" and western media that still capitalizes on that stuff for drama is using a red scare bogeyman in an ahistorical way. USSR always had labor camps/colonies and they still exist today. The major difference between the classic image of a gulag and late 70s-80s colony system is that it became less openly slave labor on massive projects (which painted quite a picture) and more of an extremely cheap labor force - which is why it transitioned to a capitalist system without any meaningful changes. Van Dis posted:Capital D-dissidents were certainly pursued and persecuted (in ways that approach but do not meet how the US in particular has targeted Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, etc), political crimes were prosecuted, but never led to the death penalty let alone a summary bullet. So while there definitely was political repression and well documented state paranoia, it was nothing like what is depicted as a possible consequence in Chernobyl or indeed any western depiction of the USSR after Stalin. My source on this is Moshe Lewin's The Soviet Century and also not being a bought-and-paid-for western ideologue. Saharov for example did not enjoy the luxury of being able to openly air his views and opinions in his country (until a certain point in time) like people you mentioned do today. Article 64 of the RSFSR criminal code (Treason) had alternatively 10 to 15 years or death sentence and was applied quite widely - from actual defectors/spies to people looking to escape USSR because of political pressure. Just the threat of a capital punishment for that crime was enough to make people think twice about talking too much to foreign journalists. And Legasov's example shows well how even in Glasnost period the system did not really need to pursue a criminal case to cut oxygen for a soviet citizen when just extrajudicial pressure and ostacization in a controlled community (scientific in that case) was enough.
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Mar 3, 2020 12:57
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God Hole posted:my thoughts exactly. maybe not something so overt as like the whiplash ending of Blackkklansman, but definitely something to tie it to the parallel global problems we're facing today as a species, rather than a time capsule look at a specific localized crisis from the past. People gonna miss the point no matter how clearly you spell it out. If somebody can't find any relevance to the present or for another country, that's not the fault of the show.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:21
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This might work. https://twitter.com/HBO/status/1235619786278572032
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Mar 5, 2020 18:43
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Hard to imagine a better fit for what Mazin should do next.
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Mar 6, 2020 08:53
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Could be interesting to see a video game property done right, the Witcher was close to the source material but still not a lot of fun.
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Mar 6, 2020 09:16
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Golden Bee posted:Could be interesting to see a video game property done right, the Witcher was close to the source material but still not a lot of fun. hmmmm
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Mar 6, 2020 13:00
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Golden Bee posted:Could be interesting to see a video game property done right, the Witcher was close to the source material but still not a lot of fun. I've never even played the witcher and even I know you're wrong.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:34
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm trying to imagine the CIA swooping in to arrest some US government official in the middle of testifying to Congress and then taking them underground to shoot them in a bunker beneath Washington. Definitely something that has actually happened. They’re too busy training people in other countries to do it there instead.
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Mar 7, 2020 07:29
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Dalael posted:I've never even played the witcher and even I know you're wrong. He clearly meant the first game which had...issues.
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Mar 7, 2020 07:45
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hobbesmaster posted:He clearly meant the first game which had...issues. The games and the series are based on books.
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Mar 7, 2020 16:51
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm trying to imagine the CIA swooping in to arrest some US government official in the middle of testifying to Congress and then taking them underground to shoot them in a bunker beneath Washington. Definitely something that has actually happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_Hope
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Mar 7, 2020 21:33
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Golden Bee posted:Could be interesting to see a video game property done right, the Witcher was close to the source material but still not a lot of fun. 
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Mar 8, 2020 05:42
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Chernobyl-19 https://imgur.com/gallery/aiaGDFO
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Jul 16, 2020 22:00
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Dalael posted:Chernobyl-19 https://imgur.com/gallery/aiaGDFO If Chernobyl happened in the US, the government would offer subsidies to retailers opening up outlets in the Exclusion Zone, while the equivalent of the anti-mask protesters would haul chunks of graphite to spread to governors trying to mandate radiation monitoring.
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Jul 16, 2020 23:20
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"What are we going to do: relocate an entire metropolis??? That would kill all of the small businesses and economy there!!! I'm afraid the children of Chernobyl, Kansas will need to be back in school by the next semester..."
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Jul 17, 2020 00:40
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In 30 years there’s going to be a COVID-19 miniseries and the scene of that first press conference Trump gave on the virus where he’s cracking bad jokes and the press corps is just howling laughing is going to be the equivalent to the Pripyat party bosses clapping and congratulating themselves or solving the problem as Reactor 4 bleches yellow irradiated fire literally a block away.
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Jul 23, 2020 02:46
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nine-gear crow posted:In 30 years there’s going to be a COVID-19 miniseries and the scene of that first press conference Trump gave on the virus where he’s cracking bad jokes and the press corps is just howling laughing is going to be the equivalent to the Pripyat party bosses clapping and congratulating themselves or solving the problem as Reactor 4 bleches yellow irradiated fire literally a block away. Speaking of, does a anyone have the video of the reactor rods dancing while this song plays in the background? Tia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pka3psIK9Eo I'm rewatching chern tonight
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Sep 7, 2020 05:25
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nine-gear crow posted:In 30 years there’s going to be a COVID-19 miniseries and the scene of that first press conference Trump gave on the virus where he’s cracking bad jokes and the press corps is just howling laughing is going to be the equivalent to the Pripyat party bosses clapping and congratulating themselves or solving the problem as Reactor 4 bleches yellow irradiated fire literally a block away. 5 million cases, Not great not terrible!
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Sep 7, 2020 14:58
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etalian posted:5 million cases,
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Sep 7, 2020 15:19
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KoRMaK posted:there's a lot of similar posts in the comments of chernobyl posting videos since April Goontube provides https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHbm1HJ9dUI
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Sep 7, 2020 23:47
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Government Handjob posted:Goontube provides 
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Sep 8, 2020 01:24
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When’s season 2
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Sep 8, 2020 01:25
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Last Chance posted:When’s season 2 Fukushima: The Chernobyling
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Sep 8, 2020 01:50
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Mazin is doing a The Last of Us adaptation so while we will get our dose of miseryporn, we will have to wait a lot longer for it to be historical...
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Sep 8, 2020 04:20
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Government Handjob posted:Goontube provides Bruhhhh thank you. I clicked it and already had a like on it so it's the right one
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Sep 8, 2020 04:44
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KoRMaK posted:there's a lot of similar posts in the comments of chernobyl posting videos since April You must all be wrong about Covid. I've been assured in this very thread that such a thing could never happen in the US.
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Sep 8, 2020 06:54
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And if it did, the USA would handle it just as good as the USSR ever could.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:53
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