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skimothy milkerson
Nov 19, 2006

DONT THREAD ON ME posted:

trick question nothing we make matters

ill put you down for "bump"

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post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

Skim Milk posted:

alternatively,,

bump this htread everyytime python is fine but there are better options if you need to build something that matters

"second best language for everything"

truly the cyclocross bike of programming langs

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

Chopstick Dystopia
Jun 16, 2010


lowest high and highest low loser of: WEED WEE
k

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
my coworker rewrote his horrorshow pile of Makefiles into a couple of python scripts so python is good... for now.

refleks
Nov 21, 2006



Soricidus posted:

you don't need mypy to benefit from type hints. the only good python ide, pycharm, has support for them built in



Eh? It's just guessing unless you actually specify exactly why type is expected?

LuckySevens
Feb 16, 2004

fear not failure, fear only the limitations of our dreams

which raspberry pi project is most YOSPOS













LuckySevens fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jun 5, 2019

Vomik
Jul 29, 2003

This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

LuckySevens posted:

which raspberry pi project is most YOSPOS











[timg]https://imgur.com/QKkwxh1[.jpg/img]

[img]https://imgur.com/XcwgXbK.jpg[/timg]

I don’t see the hidden balls in the last pic. anyone able to circle them?

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

LuckySevens posted:

[img]https://imgur.com/XcwgXbK.jpg[/timg]

Teabagg.r

Origin
Feb 15, 2006

i know i said something positive about python previously in this post, but here is something negative. virtual environments: i use them, but the whole experience has been unsatisfying, much like reading my posts.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Origin posted:

i know i said something positive about python previously in this post, but here is something negative. virtual environments: i use them, but the whole experience has been unsatisfying, much like reading my posts.

they are weird, having shared libraries is meant to mean you automatically get security updates/bug fixes etc when you upgrade, but it turns out that's a pain! So instead you end up with a more complex way of vendoring dependencies.

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine

pointsofdata posted:

they are weird, having shared libraries is meant to mean you automatically get security updates/bug fixes etc when you upgrade, but it turns out that's a pain! So instead you end up with a more complex way of vendoring dependencies.

not swapping out the version of a library your application is using out from underneath you is the entire point and pretty much every language + packaging system does it unless I’m misunderstanding you

agreed that packaging + deploying python apps is a pain tho if you don’t use containers

pram
Jun 10, 2001
he means virtualenv has separate dependencies from site-packages or anything else reasonably controlled by the os package manager so now you have multiple copies of mystery libraries that will never get patched

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

i am sorry, the correct answer was YOSVAPE

Soricidus
Oct 21, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill
automatically getting security updates only works if you have a way to distinguish security updates from feature updates that also randomly change all the apis in breaking ways

and that does not exist for any plang, or indeed any widely used programming language at all, so yeah that really isn’t a thing in the real world except for some common c libraries that have been around forever and are also full of security bugs, like image parsing things or libxml or whatever

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

robocod

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
woah

rchon
Feb 19, 2015

~Coxy posted:

we have to deploy some python ML script to end users' computers and it's a fricken nightmare

(ended up programmatically creating a virtual environment with a known list of packages, that all have to download from the internet, and then switching to it to run the script. it sucks.)

i'm far from an experienced software dev but so far it seems like deploying python without a container is a nightmare no matter what route i've tried to go down. i've tentatively found pex to be the closest to what i want: https://github.com/pantsbuild/pex

rchon fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jun 5, 2019

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

rchon posted:

i'm far from an experienced software dev but so far it seems like deploying python without a container is a nightmare no matter what route i've tried to go down. i've tentatively found pex to be the closest to what i want: https://github.com/pantsbuild/pex

no Windows? :(

pram
Jun 10, 2001
using python on windows sounds even grosser than usual

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

It is

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

pipenv works fine on windows

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

so does pycharm

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


are we done with the bump this thread everytime the thread is bad thing did i miss it

TimWinter
Mar 30, 2015

https://timsthebomb.com

rchon posted:

i'm far from an experienced software dev but so far it seems like deploying python without a container is a nightmare no matter what route i've tried to go down. i've tentatively found pex to be the closest to what i want: https://github.com/pantsbuild/pex

Pex uses system python, which, it turns out, is always Python 2.6 on customer machines.

I have hopes for appimage, despite never having been able to get it to work.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Bloody posted:

pipenv works fine on windows

i found pipenv very painful on windows but that's true of all the venv managers so maybe it's still the best idk. All of them are dramatically less pleasant to use than dotnet cli tools

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD
python and perl (and probably other plangs) are loving insane to deploy

who knew the windows hegemony would be maintained not by anything good but by how absolutely dire the alternatives are

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

pointsofdata posted:

i found pipenv very painful on windows but that's true of all the venv managers so maybe it's still the best idk. All of them are dramatically less pleasant to use than dotnet cli tools

what did you do wrong? like i despise python and hated all of the tools in the ecosystem until pipenv and pipenv has been basically fine. its not quite as pleasant as cargo but it works nearly the same way from a ui perspective

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Bloody posted:

what did you do wrong? like i despise python and hated all of the tools in the ecosystem until pipenv and pipenv has been basically fine. its not quite as pleasant as cargo but it works nearly the same way from a ui perspective

idk it was a while ago. I remember it breaking a lot when you upgraded pip pipenv and if you wanted to publish your code as a library it was just like "welp you're on your own now". Most dependency management things are fairly transparent between package and application dependencies.

vodkat
Jun 30, 2012



cannot legally be sold as vodka
python suits my needs quite well op but I have also started doing some of the same things in r and I am finding it preferable for some tasks now

vodkat
Jun 30, 2012



cannot legally be sold as vodka
I hope everyone enjoyed this well thought out and reasoned post from a basic data scrub

echinopsis
Apr 13, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
r huh

Cosa Nostra Aetate
Jan 1, 2019
R is good, but I don't like that you can include "." in variable names. It has better stats tools than Python if that's what you're doing, and R/shiny is also nicer for making dashboards than plotly dash or bokeh.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
i tried to learn R because one of my bros is using it in gradschool but i got to the part about the "formula" object and it broke my brain and i couldn't go on

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

pointsofdata posted:

i found pipenv very painful

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
despite the claims of the op, python is, in fact, bad.

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man
pipenv is good for one thing: deploying a python script application, where

- application means it will never be used as a component in anything else
- script means its not important or incredibly unsuitable to being deployed in any kind of user friendly way and instead you'll install it with a shell script or make file or something

used as a library? too bad, pipfiles and pipfile locks are not really composable and can't be used easily to source the install_requires stuff that pypi and python wheels use as dependency info
actually a user facing application? if you're not a moron you're actually building an exe (or .app, or appimage, or or or or or ) that can be installed as a cohesive whole

it's a particular tool only used for developers writing tools for developers, and i mean tools not libraries. also it's insanely slow and dependency resolution can fail

rchon
Feb 19, 2015

Phobeste posted:

also it's insanely slow and dependency resolution can fail

at work (where our internet connections are awful), pipenv is basically unusable for this reason. i'm pretty sure i remember seeing it download windows/macos wheels while finding dependencies when running on a linux machine (???); even for small projects, a simple sync operation never finishes in an acceptable amount of time. the dependency resolver seems like it errors out with dumb/obvious mistakes as well. nevermind the whole "it's designed only for applications" thing.

poetry seemed a little better with respect to all this stuff.

psiox
Oct 15, 2001

Babylon 5 Street Team
hah, i had no idea pipenv was So Bad, i'm a ruby person and figured it might be the least-lovely bundler-alike but lol

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theodop
Dec 30, 2005

rock solid, heart touching
I've never written python but it sounds bad. how do you know if your code is wrong with no compiler?

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