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Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

A while back I thought, “I really want to rewatch (X Show) with some people.” That idea grew into this “TV Club,” where together we watch old seasons of good shows as chosen by your fellow goons. Every month, we’ll talk about the assigned episodes, and at the end of the month vote on what to watch next. First up:

Hannibal Season 1

Bryan Fuller’s hosed-up masterpiece. I’ve never been a fan of horror, and this show crosses the line too many times to count, but there’s always been something deeply fascinating about this show beneath the gore. Hell, the gore even works as part of this intense, morbid atmosphere where every mutilation is treated a work of art. Viewer discretion is obviously advised here, though I’m pretty squeamish and managed to get through it. It’s currently streaming on Amazon Prime in the US and Netflix in the UK.

We’ll be watching at a pace of 3-4 episodes a week, starting Sunday, June 2nd. So, the schedule will look like this:

June 2-June 8: Episodes 1-3

June 9-June 15: Episodes 4-6
(Episode 4 was never aired on television, so there’s an extra treat for some of you)

June 16-June 22: Episodes 7-9

June 23-June 29: Episodes 10-13


Spoiler Policy:

I understand that the intended purpose of this is a rewatch, so I won’t prohibit spoilers, but I ask that you tag anything we haven’t covered yet just in case we get any new viewers.

Future Shows:

We haven’t determined what we’re going to watch next yet, but here’s some suggestions we’ve gotten so far:

Person of Interest
The Wire
Justified
Oz
The Shield
Under the Dome
(Pretty sure this was a joke suggestion but there might be some merit in at least one hatewatch, lol)

Feel free to suggest some other shows if you have any ideas!

This is the first time we’ve done this so there might be some kinks to work out, but I hope this goes well. Happy watching!

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Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Gonna reserve this post just in case

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005




Stuck so more people will see it.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

Ooh, I'm glad this came to fruition. I may try to do it, but what I recall from Hannibal is that it's heavy enough to be difficult to marathon. This pacing is about as reasonable as you can get with it though.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013
some dirty-sneaker-inbred-out of the woods-Pabst beer pussy methhead-junkie running all around town telling EVERYONE EVERYTHING ABOUT ELON MUSK


Oh, hell yes. Hannibal is probably my favourite piece of fiction period. I am very excited to go through it again and get some new readings of the series. I hope some of the other big fan goons join in, I recall Steve Yun had posted his hanni-dinner in the S3 thread and it was just sublimely done.

Would TV Club do S2 next or is voting done one season at a time?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

We'd definitely at least have the option of going straight to Season 2, I think. I don't want us to get forced into watching entire series for a few months back-to-back if the thread isn't up for it, though, so I'd probably still do votes month by month.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Sounds good! Excited to bust open my Thomas Harris books and be a giant nerd about how much Fuller obvs loves the source material.

Doobie Keebler
May 9, 2005



What a good idea. Hannibal was a great show and the casting felt spot on. I loved the ending, which makes a rewatch that much better. Gore for it's own sake isn't my thing but the psychological aspects made it so much more.

esperterra posted:

Sounds good! Excited to bust open my Thomas Harris books and be a giant nerd about how much Fuller obvs loves the source material.

I'd like to hear this! I read Silence of the Lambs and Red Dragon a long time ago but i don't remember much.

Cymoril
Jul 1, 2005

Kittens Warm the World

Dinosaur Gum

I am all for it. I just recently watched season one and have been dying to discuss it.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009


Odd that you’d start off a rewatch thread with a terrible show but hey, I don’t judge. I mean I watched all of doctor who. I sympathize with people who make bad choices.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Can’t wait to rewatch this great and awesome show!

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



gently caress, I don't really have time to do this but.... it's Hannibal. I'll make the time. :stwoon:

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Rewatching season 1 is a very rewarding experience because you can see all of Hannibals machinations very clearly in hindsight and appreciate even more how hilariously devious he is.

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



i normally rewatch Hannibal every October but i'll talk about my favorite drama in here sure.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Psyched for this.

Are we watching stuff independently, or watching collectively and live-posting thoughts?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

I want people to be able to do this on their own schedules, but I'm looking into the potential of some good old-fashioned :tviv:-ing. We could do it in here or in the Discord, whichever works better.

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth


DC Murderverse posted:

i normally rewatch Hannibal every October but i'll talk about my favorite drama in here sure.

hey, same. I suppose I can alter my obsessive dork times and do my Hannibal rewatch in June.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!


Hair Elf

Arist posted:



We haven’t determined what we’re going to watch next yet, but here’s some suggestions we’ve gotten so far:

Person of Interest
The Wire
Justified
Oz
The Shield
Under the Dome
(Pretty sure this was a joke suggestion but there might be some merit in at least one hatewatch, lol)

Feel free to suggest some other shows if you have any ideas!


There's a rewatch thread of the Wire with essays on every episode (mostly by Escape Artist and Jerusalem and a few guest writers) if it's of any interest:
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3522091

Just Chamber
Feb 10, 2014

WE MUST RETURN TO THE DANCE! THE NIGHT IS OURS!



Totally down for this as I just watched season 3 a few weeks ago after stopping after season 2 ended and never resuming. Season 3 was super good, that ending was brilliant.

As for that list earlier, i'd be up for The Shield and Oz, i've never seen the former and the latter i watched pretty much close to when it aired.

NieR Occomata posted:

Odd that you’d start off a rewatch thread with a terrible show but hey, I don’t judge. I mean I watched all of doctor who. I sympathize with people who make bad choices.

Hannibal is a very good show actually and even when it's bad there's enough goofiness in it to make it an excellent show to post about.

Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 21:43 on May 29, 2019

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Just ignore Occ

Tarnop
Nov 25, 2013

Pull me out



Great idea, and some cool shows on the list. I might finally get around to watching Oz!

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

Agreed, Oz has been on my list for a decade.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

We're starting this tomorrow, and I'm glad to see a decent amount of interest. I'm still working out some details, but I'm excited to see this series again with fresh eyes (though I'm also kind of dreading it, lol). I'll try to watch these before everyone else in the future so I can gather my own thoughts as a sort of guide, if that's desirable, or people can try to steer the conversation themselves.

We're starting with Episode 1: Aperitif. For those of you who want to watch that episode and react with your fellow goons, we'll watch that episode tomorrow at 8 EDT in the Discord, if that works.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Arist posted:

For those of you who want to watch that episode and react with your fellow goons, we'll watch that episode tomorrow at 8 EDT in the Discord, if that works.

I almost forgot about this! I don't know if anyone is ready yet, but I'm gonna watch episode 1 in fifteen minutes or so and people are happy to come into the Discord if they want to.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



Thanks for the viewing reminder. I’ve never seen any of the series and know basically nothing about it, but I’m hooked after the first episode. It seems so quaint for them to cut around and Austin-Powers our the nipples on the horrifically mutilated bodies that the prop people render with such care. So much so that I’m already kind of wondering if that will have anything to do with the psychosexual poo poo the show’s obviously going way into.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Thanks for the viewing reminder. I’ve never seen any of the series and know basically nothing about it, but I’m hooked after the first episode. It seems so quaint for them to cut around and Austin-Powers our the nipples on the horrifically mutilated bodies that the prop people render with such care. So much so that I’m already kind of wondering if that will have anything to do with the psychosexual poo poo the show’s obviously going way into.

Without giving away spoilers, there is an episode in the future where NBC were absolutely adamant that a particular scene could not air, and the show assumed it was because of the use of a corpse. Finally they found out that the problem was that you could see the crack of the corpse's rear end, so they said,"What if we obscure the asscrack with a pool of blood but the corpse is otherwise still fully in view?" and NBC were like,"Well okay THAT is totally fine!"

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


So we're just watching the first ep today? What time are we doing episode two?

I couldn't make the live chat because I had class, but I'll catch up and post some thoughts tonight. Excited to get into this. :)

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

101 thoughts:

- Gorgeous from the get-go. The depiction of Will’s autistic psychic powers immediately sets it apart as a show with a gorgeous unique vision, and the fact he envisions himself as the murderer immediately presents you with one of the main themes, especially the way those shots are way more saturated than the rest of the show

- Laurence Fishburne is the best, but that soul patch is not.

- Asian coroner lady does not have tact.

- I’ve never read any of the Harris books or seen Manhunter/Red Dragon, so this was my first exposure to Will Graham as a character, and the script/performance really give you an immediate impression of what a nice but profoundly strange dude he is.

- Doggies!!!!

- “USE THE LADIES’ ROOM!!!” lmao I forgot all about that

- OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT THE MOUNTING THING TOO

- Introduction of Hannibal with the first of many incredible-looking dishes on this show. Also, Mads!!!!!! I was already a big fan of him from European cinema stuff so when I found he was playing Hannibal I was insanely excited and I mean. He did NOT disappoint.

- Even in the first episode we get Hannibal helping Will in his own special creepy way. Will comes to his conclusions incredibly quickly but I guess that’s the thing you have to overcome in this show

- I’m beginning to think this bloke eats people!!!!

- Totally forgot that Will is kinda dismissive/contemptuous of Hannibal at first. Is it jealousy?

- Passive-aggressive lady on the phone while they’re looking through files is the best side character

- They really should have brought a team to Hobbs’ house huh. How is Will even allowed a gun? Stupid America.

- I will always be amazed with how much NBC allowed Fuller and co to show. Even the climax of this episode is bloody as hell!

While I always liked season 1 (I think it was just outside of my top 10 for the year), I remember never thinking this show became truly great until season 2. We’ll see how that pans out over the month, but this is absolutely a fantastic pilot. Definitely one of the best network drama pilots I’ve ever seen. So glad this is the first one we’re doing :)

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Escobarbarian posted:

- “USE THE LADIES’ ROOM!!!” lmao I forgot all about that

Bryan Fuller: Okay, I'll be the showrunner but on one condition... I get to film in the Overlook Hotel bathroom. Take it or leave it :colbert:

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Wrote up some thoughts on this episode:

Episode 1: Aperitif

Hannibal is a show I kind of dread, and in some ways that’s really the attitude it wanted from me. It’s a show I had to watch weekly, had to watch live for almost every episode because I knew that watching it time-shifted, in a scenario where I controlled the pace, I would probably never be able to get through the episodes. And while this first episode is honestly downright tame in comparison to some of the later offerings in terms of pure gore, it certainly brings that dread.

There’s the immediate brutality from Will’s recounting of a home invasion that starts the episode (in what must be the most uncomfortable FBI academy class ever), followed by the desperate horror of the wife’s paralysis from a shot to the neck. There’s the looming, oppressive bass hums on shots of blood and bodies. There’s pretty much any time Hannibal is on screen, the show not even pretending to hide the monster just under the refined surface. Lecter doesn’t actually show up until halfway through the episode, and it’s a credit to the show that his presence isn’t rushed and he isn’t missed before then. He is the gravitational center around which the show orbits, but the show feels compelling even before he enters our perception. Lecter is immediately captivating, in no small part thanks to Mads Mikkelsen’s incredible gravitas. It’s hard to imagine anyone else in the role these days.

A lesser show might have tried to hide just what Lecter is for at least the first episode, but Hannibal knows why people are here, and relishes in scenes of people not realizing just what they’re looking at. The first two things we see Hannibal do are eat (which you probably shouldn’t do when you watch this show), and stare ominously as his oafish patient Franklin drops a used tissue on his table. Those scenes with Franklin and Jack Crawford maybe err a bit too far on the side of cute winks to the audience, but they add to that constant dread. It’s like watching some idiot teenager make a bad decision in a slasher movie; you can only look on, powerless to help or do anything but make futile yells for them to do something else.

What I was really surprised about when I watched this again for the first time was that Lecter wasn’t just that superior figure, that shark in the pool of fish no one seems to notice, but that there was this sense of petulance to the character. He utterly refuses to accept anyone else as a full person, and that’s why he barely bothers to hide his identity, confident that no one is as smart as he is. When Will tells Lecter he doesn’t find him that interesting, Lecter responds with a loaded, “You will.” And god forbid he become interested in you, as he does with Will. That relationship, which forms the backbone of the series, all starts in this episode, and it’s fascinating to see knowing where it goes.

Will himself is an interesting figure. The scene where he meets Jack after his class is a little perfunctory and obvious, probably the single element that has aged the least well of this whole episode, serving to introduce us to his “disorder.” The show at least tries to present his weird serial killer empathy superpower as something outside of that, but it’s still kind of off. That said, Will is still a compelling character. This episode posits him as someone not deficient, but simply too good at caring in a way that is actively harmful to his overall mental health. He cannot repress his empathy. When he figures out a profile for the Minnesota Shrike, there’s a sense of rage in Hugh Dancy’s performance, sure, but also a hint of sadness, of betrayal and loss. He adopts lost dogs in his spare time and names them cute things like Winston. He’s hard not to like even as we watch him choke out an innocent woman in his imagination.

Finally, we see the show’s recurrent motif of antlers for the first time here as well. The antlers in the wounds to promote healing, the women mounted on antlers, and dreams of stags. The stag is a noble, majestic creature, but it’s still just meat for the wolf.

whowhatwhere
Mar 15, 2010

SHINee's back

These are both very good reflections and I don't have much to add to them beyond a desire to call attention to how gorgeous the costuming is (more so in later episodes, but already present here in Alana Bloom's wrap dresses and Hannibal's Weird 70's Uncle suits) and a note that Bloom's character already feels perfunctory and underserved. While the spectrum conversation between Jack and Will may have aged worst, the initial conversation with Bloom feels the most jarring, and it doesn't really improve much.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I'd seen 1000 shows like Hannibal before Hannibal came along, of varying degrees of quality, and the thing that makes this one standout even beyond being a Bryan Fuller show (and therefore, you know, loving gorgeous) is fittingly enough the titular character. The protagonist who "SEES WHAT THE KILLER SEES!" was exciting and fresh to me when I first saw it in Millennium waaaay back in the 90s (the trope probably predates it, that's the earliest I recall) but it had been overused to the point of absurdity by the time Hannibal came along. The first half of the first episode is shot well, the production design is top notch, the careful dodging of NBC's censors is remarkable etc... but it's still got all the trappings of a "The FBI/Cops get a troubled genius to help them solve crimes" style of crime procedural, albeit a very stylish one. Hugh Dancy is fine in the lead and his interactions with Crawford and the forensic team is fun, most prominently in the first episode through Hettienne Park and her obliviously cheerful first meeting with Will.

But the moment Mads Mikkelsen shows up it just becomes a completely different show, and all the better for it. He throws everything on its ear, helped in part by the almost inescapable pop culture awareness of exactly who and what Dr. Lecter is, but mostly through his fantastic performance. His bemused, barely veiled contempt is a joy to watch. He's so smooth, so unconcerned and condescending towards the capabilities of anybody to capture him or outsmart him, often right to their face while they think he's been charming and open with them. He makes Jack sit in his waiting room before deigning to see him, he enjoys poking at Will and his fascination and understanding of Will's ability in no way involves him being concerned Will might be able to turn it on him. He pays lipservice to Will being able to adopt Hannibal's own POV but you know he's utterly confident that this won't happen, or that he'll easily be able to obfuscate or misdirect a man whose talent is to see what other people are thinking and feeling. Hell, he straight up brings him a meal of the lungs he cooked from the fake Shrike kill and takes great pleasure in watching him eat it, even as Will is assuring him that he doesn't find him interesting ("You will" is a statement, not a prediction). He takes Garrett Jacob Hobbs' entire mindset and flips it just for fun, the intellectual curiosity of prodding Will along the right track to see what he'll do next. He does the same to Hobbs himself, giving him that phone warning purely for his own amusement, to wind up these little toys and see what happens. He's a monster through and through right from the start, but he's a seductive and alluring one: more Lucifer Morningstar than horned demon. Even saving Abigail's life and then "falling asleep" holding her hand is a constructed scene designed purely to play with Will's sense of empathy and draw them in closer, all so he can see what his fascinating little toy does next. The best writing of Lecter in my opinion was always when he was bored and decided to amuse himself, and that's what comes through in the writing and especially the performance by Mikkelsen in this episode.

As the show continues, the relationships become more interwoven and the other characters become more interesting, but it's all because the center is held in place by Mikkelsen the actor/Hannibal the character. It raises Hugh Dancy's Will Graham up to greater heights and makes him a compelling (heartbreakingly so) character in his own right. But in episode 1, the show is clearly well named, this IS The Hannibal Show.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jun 4, 2019

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

It's been long enough since I watched this that I've got the general outline in my head, but the details are still a little surprising after passing through the fog of my terrible memory. The tension in the first episode holds up even knowing what's coming, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.

What really got me was how strongly Dancy holds his own. He's overshadowed by Mikkelson, sure, but Mads is playing the character the show is named for - it's not hard to be a dominant presence when literally every factor on the screen is oriented around your part. But Dancy goes really hard into this character and commits. He is a gross weirdo possessed by disturbing mental episodes, but he's really trying.

One of the things that stood out to me is his facial performance. In keeping with what we're told outright about his thing about eye contact, Dancy isn't going crazy with his eyes, but he does do a lot of work with his jaw, clenching and grinding his teeth, working it around while he thinks, and so on. It's maybe a little on the nose for the cannibalism show, but I still really enjoyed it.

Tortilla Maker
Dec 13, 2005
Un Desmadre A Toda Madre


5 episodes in.

A bit predictable. I get that Hannibal is the ultimate catch and that we’re likely working in that direction but it hasn’t been overly enjoyable to watch it play out.

The mini murderer story lines for each episode remind me of X-Files’ monster of the week episodes. Slightly entertaining but ultimately not why one is here.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

I wanna do the second episode tomorrow but I have no idea when I'll be available that afternoon, sorry.

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013
some dirty-sneaker-inbred-out of the woods-Pabst beer pussy methhead-junkie running all around town telling EVERYONE EVERYTHING ABOUT ELON MUSK


Arist posted:

There’s the immediate brutality from Will’s recounting of a home invasion that starts the episode (in what must be the most uncomfortable FBI academy class ever)

I never made that connection before. That's another point for my reading of the show as the blackest comedy ever, imo

Doobie Keebler
May 9, 2005



Jerusalem posted:

But the moment Mads Mikkelsen shows up it just becomes a completely different show, and all the better for it.

I think this is what made me fall in love with the show. It feels like any other crime show until Mads shows up. He's a looming presence, the monster just off screen in every scene. I also appreciate that the writers understand that we're watching a show about Hannibal Lecter and we all know who he is. We don't need to be teased or get his life story. In a TV-land where apparently 1 out of 10 people is a crazed serial killer he's still the scariest person in the room.

Also, Laurence Fishburne is a big guy but he looks huge to me on this show.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Mameluke posted:

I never made that connection before. That's another point for my reading of the show as the blackest comedy ever, imo

"Your homework is to come back and tell me how YOU personally would have murdered this poor woman!" always gives me an uncomfortable laugh.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

It's interesting to see how manipulative everyone is on a rewatch. My first viewing everyone seemed fairly sincere, but subsequent watchings have given me a terrible impression of everyone on this show.

Still hoping for a spin-off cooking show, hosted by Mads as Hannibal, where he :airquote: cooks :airquote: the celebrity guest each week. :burger:

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Watching the second episode reminds me of just how incredible the music (along with every single other aspect of the production) is. I don't know what the specific term/genre is for what I think is the piano music that plays over the shots of the "garden" but I absolutely love it.

It's kinda forgivable since it is the second episode, but this does kick off what would become a recurring motif of there being a sudden explosion of bizarrely artistic serial killers all cropping up and killing in an incredibly short timeframe so there could be a new killer of the week each episode, which I put down to the show not quite being able to escape it's Network TV surroundings. The half of the episode that's about the fallout from Garrett Jacob Hobbs, the suspicion that has fallen on his daughter (like her father always referred to in full rather than just her first name) etc is the most interesting part. The other half with The Gardener is good but it feels all too quick coming so hard on the heels of the Minnesota Shrike.

I do love Will's hallucinations, an often overused trope in this kind of crime procedural with an eccentric genius type of show, because I've always liked to think of them as both the result of (later season spoilers) his encephalitis but also because his brain is desperately trying to figure out/warn him about all the little poo poo that doesn't quite add up and creating these images to throw it all together as best it can. The reason he can't make the logical leap in seeing who is behind the unanswered questions in the Hobbs case is of course due to the guilty party being the one who is "helping" him: Hannibal is expertly working away effortlessly making himself Will (and Jack's!) best friend and removing any (conscious) suspicions that Will might have about him. Not just for his own protection, but because he's having so much fun remaking Will in his own image. By the end of the episode his comments about God seem very self-referential, and it definitely feels at this point like he's decided it would be fun (or at least not boring) for him to take an empathetic figure like Will Graham and turn him into a killer... just because he can.

Also holy gently caress his office is beautiful, and the way he so smoothly strips Freddie of her self-confidence is really quite remarkable, especially considering how relaxed she is during Jack's big display of power (which I'm pretty sure was a pretty big violation of numerous rules/laws).

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