Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
massive spider
Dec 6, 2006



I read through the books recently and its interesting how many of Hannibals best lines in the show are displaced lines from the books narration/other characters lifted and given to him.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jun 6, 2019

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






massive spider posted:

I read through the books recently and its interesting how many of Hannibals best lines in the show are displaced lines from the books narration/other characters lifted and given to him.


The work done to keep so much of the books' inner monologue intact is A+

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

102 thoughts!

- Man, Will sucks at shooting. oh itís a dream

- Feel like youíd hurt yourself a lot in a room with that many antlers sticking out everywhere

- I forgot a lot of the Abigail stuff that happens in the show so thatís gonna be exciting to rediscover

- hey itís Freddie Lounds! having just showered for....some reason

- Alana and Jack are a fun angel and devil on Willís shoulder in these early episodes

- Hannibalís office is super nice

- irl Will sucks at shooting too

- awwww poo poo we on some last of us poo poo now

- thatís some real subtle camera-hiding, Freddie

- CHRIST forgot about the alive mushroom guy

- Hannibal just heard the word fungus and heís like ďOH YEAH FUNGI HAVE THESE CONNECTIONS JUST LIKE THE HUMAN BRAINĒ, dudeís on some high-level fuckery

- lmao Hannibal sees straight through Freddieís bullshit

- why hasnít Lara Jean Chorostecki been in more stuff? sheís so good

- I wish I loved anything as much as Hannibal loves feeding people human flesh without their knowledge. Mikkelsenís little looks are so good

- really the only good part of the mushroom storyline is the corpse imagery. I guess that applies to a lot of these s1 episodes

- thatís a poo poo-ton of stuff in this guyís trunk! sorry I donít have a lot to say about this one

- Alana is a thankless character a lot of the time in this show but Dhavernas always puts so much into her performance and elevates whatís on the page

- WELL I sure forgot about the last few minutes of this episode

- The mushroom man/Abigail stuff is super rushed huh

- starting to think this Hannibal guy is a bit of an unprofessional therapist!


Overall this is a very classic second episode for a network drama, repeating a lot of the general premise without really furthering anything along. The mushroom corpses are a fantastic image but otherwise that plot really doesnít have much going for it. This is definitely a weaker episode, but we also get the introduction to Freddie, who totally owns, and some good Hannibal moments still.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



massive spider posted:

I read through the books recently and its interesting how many of Hannibals best lines in the show are displaced lines from the books narration/other characters lifted and given to him.

Recently I went back and watched the way a lot of specific scenes from the books were adapted for the screen by different directors, which is really fascinating (spoilers for season 3 of Hannibal and potentially :nws: for Network approved shadow-butt). You have some amazing directors/cinematography/music of course, but the different actors also really bring different energies to the characters/dialogue.

As for Brett Ratner.... well he sure can... uhh... well his characters sure managed to stay in the frame....

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Jun 7, 2019

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

ďKilling must feel good to God too, he does it all the time. And are we not created in his image?Ē

Episode 2: Amuse-Bouche

This oneís not really much to talk about in its own right, being mostly fallout and setup. Weíre introduced to Freddie Lounds, whoís so terrible she wraps back around to great (not the only character in this show whoíll be guilty of that), we get started on some running plotlines, and elements of the first episode are repeated and elaborated upon. The biggest ďeventĒ of this episode will probably be Hannibal becoming Willís therapist, which will have repercussions that will reverberate until the end of the show. He rubber-stamps Willís psych evaluation out of a stated desire to clear the air for more productive conversation, but heís clearly just excited to have a new toy to play with.

Hannibalís incredibly leading conversations with Will give him (and through him, us) the impression that killing Garret Jacob Hobbs in the last episode felt good and just and powerful. It made him feel like God. And that leads to the obvious connection here: Did it make Will feel how Hannibal must feel all the time? Like an omnipotent figure, smirking while looking down on the peons below?

Speaking of how Hannibal sees people, what possibly inspired him to let Freddie live after committing numerous heinous breaches of etiquette? At this point it feels like a bit of an inconsistency for the sake of a hilarious fake-out where weíre meant to assume Hannibal has fed her to Jack, as well as keeping a character who will remain important later alive, but even if itís not explained later itís intriguing to consider what Hannibal deems worthy of death. Does he recognize a fellow snake in his midst, or perhaps does he see another tool with which to turn the screws on poor Will?

Anyway, the killer of the week this time is a man trying to form ďconnectionsĒ by putting his victims into diabetic comas and turning them into mushroom food. Itís honestly not terribly well explained, which is a shame. When I came up with TV Club, I wanted to do procedurals because they are a quintessentially, uniquely ďtelevisionĒ genre, so itís unfortunate that Hannibal takes a bit to grow into that aspect of itself. Itíll get better, but already the first case kind of overshadows this one, in part because Will had a much more emphatic reaction to it.

Iíll close this one by mentioning just how much Iím already enjoying this. Weíve already gotten some real gross-outs with the dude in the garden who was still alive, but even still this show is a treat. The thing I had most forgotten was just how short these episodes feel, like I could watch another half-hour just of characters talking to each other. The endings havenít been abrupt, just (in search of a better word) ďlooseĒ and somewhat "dirty" and unresolved. As someone with depression, pretty significant anxiety, and ADHD, itís kind of like trying to live and cope with your own messed-up brain. There arenít answers at the end of the day, thereís no clean ending, thereís just you.

upgunned shitpost
Jan 21, 2015



the tree of woe is probably one of the most striking and haunting images I've ever seen. still fucks me up a little.

reminds me of the fancy dinner scene in 'the terror'. the quiet, the desolation of the locations... that they're both oddly polite in some way.

out of all the 'dark art' I've seen in my life, those two would be master level examples.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



I have to imagine that even by season one of this show the idea of a gossip blog that everyone reads was horribly dated. How does Lounds make any money?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



jfood posted:

the tree of woe is probably one of the most striking and haunting images I've ever seen. still fucks me up a little.

reminds me of the fancy dinner scene in 'the terror'. the quiet, the desolation of the locations... that they're both oddly polite in some way.

out of all the 'dark art' I've seen in my life, those two would be master level examples.

Is this something in episode 2? I think I missed it.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Antifa Turkeesian posted:

Is this something in episode 2? I think I missed it.

I think they're watching ahead.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



It really is amazing how Scott Thompson didnít age a day in 20 years and is basically (so far) playing the supporting character in a comedy sketch. Where has he been all this time?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Watching 103 and Hannibal is such a cheeky motherfucker, god. He's like this weirdo alien tiger lingering in the backdrop of every scene, waiting for an excuse to pounce.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



Iím shocked that Wonder Falls lady isnít more suspicious of Hannibal wanting to hang out with the serial killerís daughter. She might not know Hannibalís trying to trip balls with her and do some kills (guessing), but heís pretty clearly not an appropriate guardian for children and heís kind of going into Roman Polanski/Michael Jackson territory by having a drugged-up teen that he stole out of the hospital stashed in his booze-stocked dining room. Thereís something unwholesome going on even from her limited pov.

Like, take one look at that guy and say, ďyeah, the biggest problem with giving a kid to this malicious, scowling loner in 70s-uncle suits is that itís too soon right now.Ē

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Arist posted:

Watching 103 and Hannibal is such a cheeky motherfucker, god. He's like this weirdo alien tiger lingering in the backdrop of every scene, waiting for an excuse to pounce.

The sheer pleasure on his face when he walks into Will's lecture on the copycat is absolutely amazing.

Edit: More thoughts on episode 3:

- The return to a focus on the Hobbs case was welcome, a third killer of the week showing up would have been a bit much. It also continues the more interesting parts of episode 2 and sets it aside from most crime procedurals in that there is actually fallout/aftermath from the shooting of the bad guy even after everybody has confirmed/agreed that Will did nothing wrong.
- Kacey Rohl isn't as good an actor as Mads Mikkelsen but that is like saying water is wet. Her performance is fine but while the writing offers suggestions of greater depth, it mostly only provides her with opportunities to look scared or miserable. Suitable emotions for somebody in her position, of course, but it is already clear that she's going to be a bigger character than her brief appearance in the first couple of episodes suggested so it would be nice to get to see her get a bit more variation in. That said, I absolutely love that they never definitively answer in this episode whether she was an accomplice (willing or otherwise) to her father. None of the other characters know either, though Hannibal would probably feel certain in his opinion on the matter, and that creates a distance between them even if they don't it too, a distance that Abigail clearly feels and reacts to.
- This must be the most pathetically ineffective police cordon I have ever seen. People are just coming onto the property left/right/center without the cops being able to spot them. Hannibal even gets a corpse out without being seen!
- Jack makes no bones about being an rear end in a top hat, it's part of his job, but it bugs me that he seems almost offended by Will being unbalanced by his exposure to the crime scenes when Will himself raised that as a definite possibility on their first meeting and begged him not to go. It's kind of the point that Jack uses people to achieve his aims, but he doesn't have to be so self-righteous/indignant about it!
- Hannibal continues to have just the best loving time. He clearly can't believe his luck at being not only right in the middle of this gloriously hosed up trainwreck, but being INVITED with open arms. The only thing that rings a little false is him taking out Bloom, it feels like he would be too exposed to do that (considering the ineffectiveness of the police cordon) and while he's supremely self-confident his decision to all but admit/brag about being a serial killer to Abigail seems like the kind of short-sighted thinking that could easily blow up in his face.

All in all it's a better episode than the second, it would have been nice if Hannibal could have escaped the trappings of the crime procedural but that was never going to be the case being a Network Drama. It's still a goddamn miracle we got the show we got, but I'd much rather have episodes like 3 than 2, which is an uncomfortable marriage of the larger story they're trying to tell and the crime-of-the-week standard.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jun 11, 2019

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Knowing what I know about the future of this series, even the characters like Alana, who is elevated by Dhavernas but not really interesting in her own right, become fascinating.

Also Abigail is just a low-key unsettling kid. They threaded so many needles casting this series.

e: there's a moment in 104 where one of Hannibal's cheeky cannibalism jokes is accompanied by a second-long flashback and scare chord. It's a weird-as-hell moment from a series that usually lets that stuff be (unsubtly) implied.

Arist fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 12, 2019

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Episode 4 thoughts:

- They make a game effort to thematically tie in the killer of the week with the Abigail stuff (re: replacing your family with a new one) but it feels like a square peg in a round hole, and it is a phenomenal waste of somebody as talented as Molly Shannon. It feels like half of that plot is missing, with the dynamic between the "lost boys" never really being explained or elaborated on.
- Hannibal wildly oversteps his bounds, which they call out in the episode, but it feels sloppy and the end result with Bloom being "forced" to tacitly endorse his actions by agreeing to join them for dinner is a misstep. Hannibal's supreme self-confidence feels the least earned it ever has here.
- I love the misdirect of making it look like Hannibal broke into Will's house with malicious intent, only to later reveal that Will asked him to do it and was fully aware he was there (though probably not that he rifled through his drawers)
- As Arist noted, the scare-chord/momentary flashback is surprisingly unsubtle and a rather broad joke that could have easily been made without making use of either.
- Kacey Rohl/Abigail is way better here than episode 3, the further she gets away from her father and the further she strays into/is pulled into Hannibal's world, the more interesting she becomes. The dichotomy of whether she is prey or predator is better realized, she seems fully aware of the danger she is in/that Hannibal poses, but torn between just trying to keep on his right side and being fascinated by him. This is what they were also trying to showcase via Molly Shannon's clumsy attempts with the little boys, but with Hannibal/Abigail it is executed far better, and not just because Hannibal is better at it than the evil mother was.
- Those are the tastiest loving eggs I think I have ever seen in my life.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Jun 15, 2019

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Notes on music and food:

Episode 1 introduces Hannibal knowing that you already know who he is. The music selection is Bach's Aria da Capo which is what is playing in VERY NSFW Hannibal's dinner with Clarice in the 2001 Hannibal film. This is being established as his theme song here. Janice Poon hasn't quite figured out what she wants to do as the food designer yet so the food looks like ordinary gourmet stuff.

Episode 2 we get another ordinary gourmet meal of "pork" loin. Music guy Brian Reitzell similarly is still figuring out what he wants to do with the music so for now we get a Bach's Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 in G major, BWV 1049 which is a very predictable, safe music choice. The only thing it communicates here is that Hannibal gives off an air of refinement and luxury.

Episode 3, nothing noteworthy with the music or food.

Episode 4: Chopin: Nocturne in B major, Op. 32, No. 1 when Alana comes over for a beer. Another safe, predictable choice intended to convey luxury and class.

Here's where Janice Poon starts taking off with the food. Hannibal serves a "modified boudin noir (blood sausage) from Ali-bab's Gastronomie Pratique," a very popular cookbook from 1923 which was almost like the Betty Crocker cookbook of its day. The potato dish is a gratin called a pave made from layering several very thin slices of potato together and baking it, with some sort of stuffing like mushroom or spinach. I think the top few layers are supposed to be browned from being baked kind of like how the outer layers of a croissant are crispy. Oddly enough, I went out and bought Gastronomie Pratique because of this show and... there's no boudin noir recipe in there.

Supposedly when Mads throws the potato in the air and catches it on his knife, that was the first take. The crew was worried about how they'd shoot the stunt but it turned out Mads knew how to juggle.

The eggs fried in bread thing was by Angel Muro from his cookbook, El Practicon, 1894. BTW, although Janice Poon was the food prop creator, Jose Andres was the cuisine consultant and was the guy coming up with broad ideas of what to make. Jose Andres is a world-renowned high-tech mad scientist of food, but for the show almost everything he contributes is old-world knowledge and recipes, which just shows what a wealth of knowledge the guy is.


edit: check out Janice Poon's blog, which used to be called Feeding Hannibal:

Episode 1:
http://janicepoonart.blogspot.com/2013/04/i-was-having-bit-of-trouble-with-re.html

Episode 2:
http://janicepoonart.blogspot.com/2013/04/hannibal-feeds-jack.html

Episode 3:
http://janicepoonart.blogspot.com/2013/04/episode-3-stag-party.html

No blog post for episode 4

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jun 16, 2019

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



Where is he getting the meat for these early meals prior to killing his pilot victimís brother? Did he get all that meat from the lady he stuck on antlers in the pilot?

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

It's unclear

1. Maybe it's sometimes human meat, sometimes it's actually beef/pork/chicken and they want to keep it unclear so that we're always left wondering

2. He is killing more people than just the antlers girl. In one of the first few episodes we get a 1 second flashback of him chasing a dude in the forest.

3. We see in a later episode that he stores a lot of human meat in a freezer with vacuum bags, which can really stretch them out. Special note: the bags he uses indicate that he uses a chamber vacuum, a $2000 professional foodsaver type thing that sucks air out and multiplies how long meat can stay in the freezer without losing quality. If it has lots of fat, theoretically 1-2 years. If it's lean it can probably keep indefinitely.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Oh poo poo we're watching 4-6 this week?

EPISODE 5 NOTES:

3:10 Hannibal's coffee machine is a early vacuum coffee brewer, which is pretty swank and has been around since 1830, adding to his "old world" allure.

6:54 on the Amazon stream you can see the moment where the censors said "no butt cracks allowed" so they covered them up with more blood

9:32 Janice Poon's notes on the foie gras. A "torchon" means Hannibal took a foie gras liver and smushed it in a cloth into the shape of a sausage tube, so that the slices would be perfect circles. Hannibal puts lots of manual labor into his food.

11:14 Hannibal says "no need for unnecessary suffering" which is him planting a seed into Bella's mind for future episodes

11:40 Jar is a brand of perfume whose marketing says it smells like the air after lightning strikes.

12:03 Note that Hannibal looks directly at Bella after talking about his ability to smell certain things



EPISODE 6:

32:43 Dr Chilton refers to Gideon as a pure sociopath, when the term is not actually part of formal psychology. Just a subtle hint that he's not one of the better minds in his field.

32:53 Janice Poon's blog about the lamb tongues. August Escoffier is considered the godfather of modern french fine dining, and there's a direct family tree that you can draw between him and most highly respected chefs in France today. En papillote means it was baked inside a paper bag

34:56 Hannibal drops a pretty sick stealth burn on Chilton by comparing him to a grape. The thing about Norton grapes isn't true, but whatever.

41:36 The way Hannibal removed his shoes to sneak up on Miriam Lass after she realized he was the killer is actually how he sneaks up on Will Graham in the Red Dragon book in a similar situation.



Episode 7 and on, the food and the music selection really take off

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Jun 16, 2019

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

EPISODE 7: I love this episode so so much. The food is on point. The music is on point. There are some amazing character study moments.

When I was 10 years old, my mom woke me up at 6 in the morning and made me come out to the kitchen window. She pointed at the garden. I stared and stared and didn't see what the big deal was. I complained that it was too early to wake up. She excitedly told me to look again and when I squinted, I noticed that the carrots leaves were wiggling. There was a gopher underground and it was gnawing on the carrots, making the leaves wiggle. This episode is a lot like that. There's a lot of big character things going on and being revealed, but in very indirect, subtle ways where you have to pay attention. There are leaves wiggling to show what's going on under the surface in Hannibal's heart and what's going on in Will's heart.

2:30 The opera singer is singing Piangero from Handel's Julius Caesar, in which Cleopatra has lost a battle and is imprisoned. Cleopatra swears that if she dies she'll haunt Tolomeo from beyond the grave. What's great about this scene is that you're immediately assuming it's going to be the "Hannibal kills the trumpet player because he sucked at trumpeting" thing from Red Dragon, but no, the twist is that Hannibal is crying tears of joy. Now, on a straightforward level you might think Hannibal is crying tears of joy because the music is so beautiful, but I have a pet theory: Hannibal has been psychologically torturing Jack Crawford by teasing him with reminders about Miriam Lass. I like to think that the thought of Cleopatra haunting Tolomeo reminded Hannibal of how much he enjoys Miriam Lass' ghost haunting Jack, and the thought made Hannibal so happy that he cried.

BTW, Brain Reitzell does a fantastic rearrangement of the song, which was originally short and fast and heavy on the strings. The version used in the show is slower, longer and lets several sections of the orchestra have moments to step forward and shine, including an added harpsichord.

16:37 As much as Tobias is a loser who desperately wants friends, Bedelia is pointing out that Hannibal doesn't have any real friends that he shows his true self to. Bedelia rebuffs Hannibal's claim that they are friends, which must sting right after he rebuffed Tobias. WHO WILL BE HANNIBAL'S FRIEND!

22:40 Hannibal is using these knives designed by Porsche

24:17 This episode is when Brian Reitzell starts getting brave about the classical music selection and starts picking out uncommon classical music. Usually when movies or TV use classical music they usually pick from the same pool of 100 songs all the time, the kind of music that most people have already heard before. I have no idea if this is the intent, but I get the feeling that it communicates that Hannibal has very extensive cultural knowledge. When the show uses classical music for other people, it tends to be the kind of classical music that everyone has already heard, to suggest that they are dull and not as worldly. This moment cooking with Alana uses Chopin's Predule in F# Major Op 28 No 13

Janice Poon's blog about the food in this episode

The fact that Alana prefers beer over wine and can still pick out that the beer was brewed in Cabernet barrels is pretty amazing. Also there's a mystery ingredient in the beer! What can it be!?

I'm impressed with Alana detecting Hannibal's attempt to change the subject with flirtation.

27:45 Music from Gounod's Faust, The Golden Calf. I love that Hannibal keeps a rolodex of everyone he hates. A customer service agent at a tailor! A rare book store manager! An IT consultant! BTW, lung is illegal for service to humans in the US (something about too many pathogens collecting in lungs), so the only way to get it is if you have access to cattle yourself. Hannibal is squeezing all the air out of the tiny alveoli, otherwise it will be too spongy.

30:14 Tobias attempts to show he has things in common with Hannibal by talking about cheese. He talks about Josť's being the best place for cheese in Baltimore, which probably makes Hannibal want to roll his eyes because he'll probably know a better place with a French name. Tobias also touches Hannibal's knee, which bothers him a lot. Hannibal is so annoyed with Tobias that I think he starts asking questions to hurt him, like hey guess what Tobias doesn't like you as much as you like him.

31:55 Hannibal waits for Will, who doesn't show up. They play the Mozart's Lacrimosa which you might have heard in Amadeus. In Amadeus, Salieri murders Mozart by overworking him to death, but then realizes afterwards that he misses Mozart. Here, Hannibal is missing Will way more than he should and starts thinking maybe he wants to be more than Will's psychiatrist. The way the music in this episode refers to other shows' themes is magical.

33:00 Will is imagining what it was like to be Abigal's dad, the man he killed. Why is unclear now.

34:24 Hannibal is the Chesapeake Ripper, so he attempts to misdirect Will from understanding the killer's motives. He suggests several wrong interpretations of the crime scenes, but Will, being the magical profiler that he is, swats these wrong interpretations away. Hannibal then suggests a correct motive for the killer, which Will agrees with. Will is the only person who "understands" Hannibal, and Hannibal must be excited by the idea of somebody being smart enough to know the true him, a potential friend.

37:36 Verdi's "Patria Opressa" from Macbeth. If anyone has any idea if there's a connecting theme between Macbeth and this moment, I'm all ears. Maybe there's no deeper meaning. It's a fantasically moody song for the moment though.

38:40 There's a supreme shame in being a struggling med student who steals organs, being caught and then having an actual surgeon show up and tell you that you were doing a bad job of stealing kidneys

39:14 Subconsciously, Will suspects something weird is going on about Hannibal, but he can't put 2 and 2 together. He stares at Hannibal hard. Hannibal notices that he is in Will's gaze. He's playing a dangeous game allowing himself to want to be closer friends with Will when Will is probably the person most likely to find him out.

39:30 You may have already heard Vivaldi's Winter from many other shows including its absolute best use in Oldboy's NSFW mouth torture scene, but Reitzell uses the second half of the song for this cooking scene, which most people haven't heard, which is pretty cool.

40:00 Hannibal claims to centrifugate pig blood, but he is using a freakin food processor which is not cetrifugation. I'm 100% sure Jose Andres suggested centrifugating blood to get serum or plasma for culinary use, but at the time centrifuges were $20,000 and as big as college minifridges and the show is already on a shoestring budget so we got a food processor as a stand-in. Jose Andres has all this interesting knowledge about cooking with blood and has even done a couple seminars about it but doesn't have a single recipe in any of his cookbooks about using blood so I am annoyed that he's keeping all this interesting stuff from being published where I can easily get it. This is one of very few "modernist" recipes in the entire show. BTW, my friend is a phlebotomist and says offhand that serum is actually sweet to the taste which is some creepy knowledge.

42:00 Final song is an instrumental encore of Piangero.

BTW, another thing to note about the music selection: usually the classical music you hear in most other movies and tv shows is from the later "classical" and "romantic" periods, but the music in this show mostly leans on the earlier "Baroque" period. Baroque classical music is more uptight and formal and has more of a luxury connotation to it since it was usually reserved for royalty. Later classical musics were still luxuries, but enjoyed by much more ordinary classes. Also, baroque music leans heavily on organs, which bring associations with church and God and religion, and also leans heavily on the harpsichord, which at least for me makes me think of Dracula.

Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 16, 2019

DC Murderverse
Nov 10, 2016

"Tell that to Zod's snapped neck!"



everyone should buy the Hannibal cookbook because you can just stare at pictures of the amazing food work done for this show and also occasionally pretend like you might actually make one of the recipes even though you won't because ew gross liver

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



Franklin is the worst. I canít blame Hannibal for that one at all.

EDIT: episode 8 is where this this show goes mega bonkers for me. Holy moly that loving fight at the end.

I AM GRANDO fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jun 19, 2019

vseslav.botkin
Feb 18, 2007
Professor

Jerusalem posted:

It feels like half of that plot is missing, with the dynamic between the "lost boys" never really being explained or elaborated on.

The skipping and staccato of the show bothered me more the first time I watched it, but on the rewatch I really appreciate how it 1. helps us to get past boring stuff and 2.mirrors Will's breakdown.

Hannibal the character and Hannibal the show both wear a disguise (eccentric but harmless psychiatrist; beautiful but episodic procedural) that gradually falls away until the end of Season 2 where the obsession becomes totalizing.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



I'm catching up, just watched Episodes 5 - 7 and thought I'd concentrate on one of the things I really appreciated about this adaptation. Silence of the Lambs was a phenomenon, and I think clearly stands head and shoulders over all the other film adaptations of the Lecter books, the only adaptation that has ever eclipsed it to my mind is this tv series, which had the benefit of long-form storytelling as opposed to the movie's limited timeframe. But Silence being such a huge hit and the subsequent sequels (and of course, Manhunter, which preceded it) meant that there was a ton of material/storybeats/character moments that viewers were already aware of, negating somewhat the ability for any adaptation to surprise or making it feel like they were "stuck" with things having to go a certain way.

Partly due to the rights to Clarice Starling and the Silence of the Lambs novel being wrapped up in legal hell, the TV show was given a challenge: How do you build to what everybody KNOWS is coming? Lecter in an institute being approached by young FBI trainee Clarice Starling for help on a case? What the show did with this was a sheer delight, as it took all the expectations viewers had and turned them on their head. Miriam Lass is clearly a proto-Clarice, but she serves a function that was held in the books by Will Graham: she is the one who makes the intuitive leap that connects Hannibal to the Chesapeake Ripper, the one Hannibal then attacks. In the books, Will gets the upper hand and Hannibal is taken into custody. Here, Miriam is captured and silenced, which immediately throws into question everything the viewer might have assumed they knew going in: maybe Hannibal ISN'T going to be caught? The adaptation of that moment has come and gone in a flashback set before the events of the TV series, we're in seemingly new material now. Throw in Doctor Gideon, played by Eddie Izzard basically aping Anthony Hopkins in a very knowing way (it's an actor successfully failing to be as good as Hopkin's portrayal of Lecter) and his amused contempt for "nemesis" Dr. Chilton and suddenly the questions start arising as to how far off-book the show is going to go. Will Hannibal be captured? Will he and Graham have their cell visits to discuss new cases or does that go by the wayside/change into Will's therapy sessions? With Will's condition deteriorating and Hannibal's talk of psychic driving with Chilton, it even raises questions about one of the more controversial aspects of the books/film sequels: Is Hannibal going to empty out Will's mind and make him a puppet to replace his dead sister, as he does to Starling?

For a show that is adapting material so well known in so many film adaptations, it keeps things fresh in a really delightful way. There's so much more to say about episodes 5 - 7, not least of which is the beautiful irony of Hannibal accompanying the FBI on the manhunt for the Chesapeake Ripper (i.e, himself) and using the same surgical skills he uses for his kills to save the life of somebody mistaken for a new Ripper victim. But then there is Hannibal's distaste for Franklin trying to shoehorn into his life while Hannibal is doing the same with Will (his little pout when Will doesn't show up for his appointment is :kiss:); or the sudden appearance of Gillian Anderson being, as usual, stunningly beautiful; or the revelation of how Hannibal picks his victims/plans his meals. The show is finding its footing, and it has deftly managed to maintain the network's desire for a "crime of the week" while avoiding making each episode an island unto itself, wrapping everything so clearly into the main narrative. Plus the food... oh God the food. And the music!

Steve Yun posted:

I love this episode so so much. The food is on point. The music is on point. There are some amazing character study moments.

Please keep up these write-ups on the music and food, it is seriously utterly fascinating.

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

I never reall thought about Abigail being dressed in clothes bought by Bloom before, but now it makes me grin whenever I see them together.

Steve Yun
Aug 7, 2003

I
ANALYZE
CARTOONS


Soiled Meat

Hadn't thought about that before... does she wear Alana clothes for the entire season?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

I'm catching up and I'm so glad I did because we got Chilton up in this motherfucker, aw drat, best worst character

evil_cheese
Sep 11, 2002
I AM A LIAR


I can't believe i missed this thread, i JUST started rewatching hannibal on my own last week. I can see why episode 4 got cut looking back, it was missing something compared to the other episodes. It felt like it was supposed to tie into other parts of the story, but they just sort of dropped everything from it without another word. I wonder what they had planned for it?

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






It was cut due to Sandy Hook.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



Was Franklin not being gay a mandated network S&P thing? There was no reason for him to say it and also he and his ďfriendĒ violin strings guy are obviously dating. Hannibal comes off as pretty gay too, in that so far his only female kills have been work-related and he goes after men for his hobby kills.

Itís actually a little weird that arguably only the first killer in the pilot had a sexual component to his murders, whereas thatís the foundational component for every actual serial killer.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Hannibal eats rude people.

e: it's also a trauma from his past thing, not a sexual thing

Chilton not being gay in the show idk. He isn't in the books but if Fuller wanted him gay in the show I imagine he would be.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Chilton really is incredible and the episode where his life falls apart is one of the greatest things I have ever seen.

evil_cheese
Sep 11, 2002
I AM A LIAR


Jerusalem posted:

Chilton really is incredible and the episode where his life falls apart is one of the greatest things I have ever seen.

Agreed. I love how he is portrayed in this show.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



esperterra posted:

Hannibal eats rude people.

e: it's also a trauma from his past thing, not a sexual thing

Chilton not being gay in the show idk. He isn't in the books but if Fuller wanted him gay in the show I imagine he would be.

You have to admit that heís extremely gay for Will. I think part of why he hates Wonder Falls Lady is that she keeps getting between him and Will being gay dads for Abigail.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






Antifa Turkeesian posted:

You have to admit that heís extremely gay for Will. I think part of why he hates Wonder Falls Lady is that she keeps getting between him and Will being gay dads for Abigail.

I never denied how gay Bryan Fuller made Hannibal and Will, though. tbh it's one of my only complaints about an otherwise near flawless adaptation, though it fits the story told really well so it's not something that detracts from the show for me.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






also Raul Esparza as Chilton is the tops

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



So I really like episode 8 for a lot of reasons but also what the gently caress episode 8? There are two graceful, elegant, educated, sophisticated serial killers not only operating in secret in Baltimore, but they're both happen to know the exact same dude which is how they meet? I have to assume Tobias is there to demonstrate Lecter's "uniqueness" in that Tobias is on the surface everything Hannibal is, but he lacks restraint and his superiority complex makes him misjudge the abilities of those around him. Hannibal is also completely secure in his superiority, but he demonstrates this by taking the abilities of law enforcement seriously: he keeps Jack Crawford off-balance, he keeps Will close, he treats Bloom as a complete equal and "values" and encourages her disputing his analysis so they feel like colleagues. Meanwhile Tobias treats the idea of the police coming after him as an opportunity to kill them too and the disappear and recreate a new life somewhere else. He says that without hesitation or any sense that things could go any other way, he simply assumes his success while Hannibal always assures his own.

Hannibal and Tobias fighting feels network mandated, which might just be my bias assuming anything that seems silly on the show was there because the Network wanted it as opposed to Fuller thinking it would be kicking rad for Hannibal and another serial killer to have a kung-fu fight. I do however like that Hannibal is really pushed hard and doesn't just automatically wipe the floor with Tobias, he takes a lot of pain and comes close to death several times, but the moment he has the upper hand you see how he shifts from survival mode to IMMEDIATELY planning: how do I kill this man in self-defense while ALSO making it look like an accident. It's quite something seeing the switch flip as Hannibal goes from desperate struggle for life to calm, smooth setup of the "accident" like he was preparing a meal.

Graham falling apart is really well-handled, especially the fireplace scene and his later admitting to Hannibal that he only kissed Bloom to distract her from the fact that she suspects what HE suspects: that he's going loving crazy. My favorite part of the episode though has to be when Hannibal is sitting in the aftermath of the Tobias fight and sees Will walk through the door, and the sheer relief that crosses his face that his "friend" is still alive. He straight up tells Bedelia that he wants Will to be a friend, and I really like how open he is about his reasons why: he and Will have very little in common, but he appreciates that Will is capable of seeing things from Hannibal's POV, even if Will doesn't understand that it is Hannibal whose POV he is seeing. Hannibal's reasons are selfish, narcissistic and essentially an intellectual exercise: I have decided to make a friend, now I shall go about doing so. But it marks the first time that Will goes from interesting subject/pet to somebody Hannibal supposedly values as a person. He'd earlier told Will that he considered him the mongoose he wanted under his house to catch any snakes that came by, and it is in this function that he "reluctantly" passes on Franklin's suspicions about Tobias, but when Tobias comes after Hannibal his concern for Will is real, even if it is founded on his own narcissism. The show going forward goes really interesting places with this, because Will is falling apart and Hannibal is his friend... but he's also the serial killer who is fascinated in seeing just how far he can take advantage of his "friend" and his malady to further his own ends.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Jerusalem posted:

So I really like episode 8 for a lot of reasons but also what the gently caress episode 8? There are two graceful, elegant, educated, sophisticated serial killers not only operating in secret in Baltimore, but they're both happen to know the exact same dude which is how they meet?

Honestly, given how much the FBI is assuring everyone right now that there totally isn't a serial killer in the Ohio Valley who has killed 40+ women who all look the same...seems plausible. :shrug:

Jerusalem posted:

Hannibal and Tobias fighting feels network mandated, which might just be my bias assuming anything that seems silly on the show was there because the Network wanted it as opposed to Fuller thinking it would be kicking rad for Hannibal and another serial killer to have a kung-fu fight.

Spoilers for season 3 but lol did you see the finale? :allears:

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Spoilers for season 3 but lol did you see the finale? :allears:

Pretend I just wrote a lot of gushing words about the thematic importance and the bridging function of the Red Dragon between Hannibal and Will, so I can excuse my own hypocrisy for absolutely LOVING that particular kicking rad kung-fu fight :sweatdrop:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?




Oven Wrangler

Making the poll for the next month, vote for any and all you approve of. We'll have the first option generally be to continue the current show we're watching. Also, we added an ~anime~ to the list at esperterra's behest. If you want to suggest an option, write it in under "Other."

https://forms.gle/CzXuobt6qtZ6K96C9

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply