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Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







okay I made a mistake, that was supposed to be D2/D3

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Yeah no I didn't bring up a serial killer on day 2 either. Your post doesn't make any sense.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







here let me fix the pertinent parts

Epsilon Plus posted:

I don't think you're scum because you're a topic of discussion, I think you're scum because you kept bringing it up D2 instead of dropping it. D3 you start talking about SKs and even after it's said that the OP states there are two scum kills per night you keep speculating about who could be the SK?

if you want to claim you didn't bring up SKs today, here's a post

The Ninth Layer posted:

I'm vanilla but yeah that's what I think, EP/IP scum and maybe Hal SK.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







also this is the dumbest gotcha anyone's ever tried to pull on me. I'm heading into work, I can post in a few hours if anyone wants to start up some other form of discussion to change my mind on TNL

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Again I didn't mention anythinh about a serial killer on day 2. What is the "it" I kept bringing up.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



It's not a dumb gotcha. At best it's you doing a really poor job of communicating.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

if its not E+ or TNL it's Hal/IP, gross

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Hal has been really quiet this game and he's basically a wild card for me.

Anomalous Amalgam
Feb 13, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


Doctor Rope

The Ninth Layer posted:

Hal has been really quiet this game and he's basically a wild card for me.

usually I say, that makes Hal scum, but... he hasn't been overtly scummy.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







The Ninth Layer posted:

What is the "it" I kept bringing up.

is anyone else confused about what I meant with this statement (with the D1/D2 mistake fixed, sorry, sorry):

Epsilon Plus posted:

I don't think you're scum because you're a topic of discussion, I think you're scum because you kept bringing it up D2 instead of dropping it.

like I think my thesis here is pretty clearly "TNL kept bringing up jokephase and the results of it, leading to a majority of discussion being about TNL, meaning nothing else was discussed as in-depth" and I can't decide if TNL is being obtuse in an effort to paint me as some wackjob or if I'm actually communicating poorly

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







The Ninth Layer posted:

Hal has been really quiet this game and he's basically a wild card for me.

also I just looked at the post count and you're right; hal has all of 15 posts and even after recruit and jokephase none of them are longer than two lines

hal do you have any solid reads or casing you want to present?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Epsilon Plus posted:

is anyone else confused about what I meant with this statement (with the D1/D2 mistake fixed, sorry, sorry):


like I think my thesis here is pretty clearly "TNL kept bringing up jokephase and the results of it, leading to a majority of discussion being about TNL, meaning nothing else was discussed as in-depth" and I can't decide if TNL is being obtuse in an effort to paint me as some wackjob or if I'm actually communicating poorly

Yeah I'm obtuse for not reading a sentence into a two letter word

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



And as far as your revision goes, you're basically accusing me of defending myself instead of shutting up and letting bad votes sit on me.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







The Ninth Layer posted:

And as far as your revision goes, you're basically accusing me of defending myself instead of shutting up and letting bad votes sit on me.

I think it's a valid tactic to stop discussion you think is unproductive by no longer replying to it instead of constantly drawing it out, so that other discussions can be had instead, yes. No defense can be a valid defense - either the discussion moves on, or you get lunched and the remaining players have data from that based on the voting pattern that emerged. Especially if you're just a vanilla townie - you win regardless of if you're dead or alive, right?

The Ninth Layer posted:

Yeah I'm obtuse for not reading a sentence into a two letter word

yeah sorry for not retyping an argument that we were all deeply familiar with from D2? I'm going to chalk it up to us having a radically different idea of how to communicate, or how to play mafia in general, and move on.

is there anything else to discuss today, or are TNL and I just going to slapfight until someone impulse-votes and scum jump on it?

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

if its not E+ or TNL it's Hal/IP, gross

Lol yeah if its not E+ or TNL its AA/IP, gross

AA are you secretly the bad person?

Sorry for my inactivity, I have been spending most of the last few days driving, I will try and say something productive before I go to sleep

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Epsilon Plus posted:

is there anything else to discuss today, or are TNL and I just going to slapfight until someone impulse-votes and scum jump on it?

We could always compromise and vote IP!

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



IcePhoenix posted:

All this sk discussion feels like an attempt to create confusion. The OP is pretty clear about two scum kills and I think it's pretty unlikely an sk would double tap both nights.

IcePhoenix's only post today so far. If you squint at it you can almost see an opinion expressed here.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



quote:

I think it's a valid tactic to stop discussion you think is unproductive by no longer replying to it instead of constantly drawing it out, so that other discussions can be had instead, yes. No defense can be a valid defense - either the discussion moves on, or you get lunched and the remaining players have data from that based on the voting pattern that emerged. Especially if you're just a vanilla townie - you win regardless of if you're dead or alive, right?

By the way I completely disagree with this, it's never good tactics to let the town vote someone you know 100% for a fact is town (yourself). But anyway you're not even talking about alignment anymore, you just don't like that I defended myself for so long.

Maybe concede that you don't really have a case here, and I'll concede that while I think you are scummy for going after me for reasons unrelated to alignment at least you're putting in work to go after -somebody.-

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



New power rankings:

IP >>> Hal > EP > AA

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Gulag voted IP yesterday. Where is he now? Dead.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







The Ninth Layer posted:

By the way I completely disagree with this, it's never good tactics to let the town vote someone you know 100% for a fact is town (yourself). But anyway you're not even talking about alignment anymore, you just don't like that I defended myself for so long.

Maybe concede that you don't really have a case here, and I'll concede that while I think you are scummy for going after me for reasons unrelated to alignment at least you're putting in work to go after -somebody.-

I am absolutely talking about alignment, why would I bother debating tactics with you unless it's to convince someone else that you're scum? I'm not going to slapfight about it here anymore, you can ping me in #mafiachat later if you want to have a spirited discussion about it.

Relatedly, I absolutely think I have a case based on your aggression and resistance to let it go even after I said I wanted to move on so we could hopefully have some actual discussion. Just because you don't like my methods doesn't mean that I'm not following some kind of consistent internal logic.

I can agree that IP doesn't look great, but I have counterarguments:

The Ninth Layer posted:

IcePhoenix's only post today so far. If you squint at it you can almost see an opinion expressed here.

It's true that this is IP's only post today, but I disagree with your read of it: there's absolutely an opinion. The opinion is that SK discussion is pointless and distracting; IP is stating that they believe that the SK discussion is one (or maybe both) scum trying to distract the town. You should consider things more in-depth. It is very possible that IP is lurking scum; it's also possible that IP has been busy, like Hal. It's also also possible that Hal is a lying scumlord. Lots of things are possible in a low-postcount game like this.

The Ninth Layer posted:

Gulag voted IP yesterday. Where is he now? Dead.

This again comes down to style of play: many scum will leave town who voted for them or argued with them alive because they feel it would be suspicious if that person died. This is Gulag's vote on IP:

GulagDolls posted:

##vote ip PREDATORY

There's not a whole lot of context to this vote, or to any of Gulag's posts really. If IP is scum, how likely are they to feel threatened by Gulag's vote? There's an odor of scumminess to IP, but I think you smell worse. I would vote IP if I could not get enough traction from other players to vote you today. I believe that voting IP is the wrong play given the other options, but think IP is more likely to be scum than AA, who is more likely to be scum than Hal. This is starting to read like a weird low-power bus attempt from you, though.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



You kill people who are likely to vote for you. This is a basic strategy.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Your case on me is that you don't like my posting style. I'm still engaging you in conversation because I've yet to determine if that'd a genuine suspicion or if you're just trying to come up with whatever because you're scum and already pot committed.

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006







Hal, AA, IP: thoughts?

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





The Ninth Layer posted:

You kill people who are likely to vote for you. This is a basic strategy.

This seems like a pretty bad strategy when they're the only one who considered voting for you. Seems to me like the basic strategy is to kill people who voted for other townies so you have an easier time casting shade on them.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 3



Not Voting (5): Anomalous Amalgam, Epsilon Plus, Hal Incandenza, IcePhoenix, The Ninth Layer

With 5 alive, it's 3 votes to execute. The current deadline is June 06th, 2019 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 12 hours, 1 minute.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



IcePhoenix posted:

This seems like a pretty bad strategy when they're the only one who considered voting for you. Seems to me like the basic strategy is to kill people who voted for other townies so you have an easier time casting shade on them.

The bad strategy is letting a bunch of people live til endgame who think you're scummy and are likely to vote for you.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



New rankings:
IP >>>>>>> EP > Hal > AA

Deadline is today and I will likely be voting for IcePhoenix. I think he's got the best chance of flipping scum. He's said very little this game, his only posts of significance have all been shade throwing against me. He's never directly said he thinks anyone is scum. He is playing like scum who wants to stir up suspicion without actually getting his hands dirty. This is lylo and IP hasn't weighed in on who we should vote for.

I think Epsillon's defense of IP's very sparse content is scummy and I also think him framing my push on IP as a bus is damage control for a potential IP flip. He's positioning himself like I imagine IP's scumbuddy would. I think he's been pushing me for scummy reasons that amount to he doesn't like my aggressive posting style. I said earlier that it feels like he's pot committed and just hoping a townie feels I look worse in exchanges than he does.

I really want to see Hal post something, anything. I keep waffling between EP and Hal as the second scum because while I think EP is actively scummy at least he is active and doing something. I understand Hal's on the road and busy but this is lylo, I don't want to lose to lurking scum in lylo so his silence makes me nervous.

I feel like I'm basically wedded to my read of AA as town right now, I don't think scum AA would unvote me yesterday to go after someone else. AA has been one of the few players to consistently put out suspicions and cases and overall I get a strong sense her opinions are real and reflect what's actually going on in the game.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





The Ninth Layer posted:

The bad strategy is letting a bunch of people live til endgame who think you're scummy and are likely to vote for you.

One person isn't a bunch though

As far as your other post, I thought it was pretty obvious that I think you're scum even if I didn't directly say it. And we're lylo of course I haven't voted for you yet, one wrong vote costs us the game, there's no reason to vote until closer to deadline.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Who's my scumbuddy.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004



The Ninth Layer posted:

Who's my scumbuddy.

Asiina

Epsilon Plus
Dec 30, 2006








god I hope this a prelude to some content

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





The Ninth Layer posted:

Who's my scumbuddy.

Hal or E+ I think. The late "joke vote" on Hal is a classic jokephase bus and then you had to backpedal all of day 2 when people called it out because you got too cute with it near the end of the day. Hal hasn't really posted much otherwise, though notably he jumped in to push the vote away from you and onto GK, which you shortly followed suit on, near the end of d2.

As far as E+, you guys have been slapfighting and tying up the discussion for the last two days.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



What do you think of AA? You haven't mentioned her at all this game.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





I don't get any scum vibes from AA

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004



It's probably IP and TNL tbh hth

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



That's fair enough, but I think it's very telling that your rationale for both of your runner up suspicions depend on me busing, even though it'd be impossible for me to be busing both players.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



Hal Incandenza posted:

It's probably IP and TNL tbh hth

I'm fine with you thinking this as long as you vote him out first.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida





The Ninth Layer posted:

That's fair enough, but I think it's very telling that your rationale for both of your runner up suspicions depend on me busing, even though it'd be impossible for me to be busing both players.

Well obviously. Scum are allowed to vote for other players too, and voting for someone to make it look like a bus isn't exactly unheard of either.


The Ninth Layer posted:

I'm fine with you thinking this as long as you vote him out first.

same but vote tnl first thx

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 19, 2007



IcePhoenix posted:

Well obviously. Scum are allowed to vote for other players too, and voting for someone to make it look like a bus isn't exactly unheard of either.
Town players build their opinions from the ground up:
Player X did something -> I think that something looks scummy -> I think Player X looks scummy.

Scum players don't have opinions and work backwards to justify their stances.
I'm going to call Player X scummy -> busing is scummy -> Player X is busing.

IcePhoenix is working backward to make his opinions. He can't think I was busing both Hal and EP, so instead he just says that whichever one is scum must be the one I'm busing. It's fake reasoning.

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