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Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


Wild T posted:

I maintain that it should be a by-the-numbers Rom Com where two awkward strangers meet and develop a relationship until the third act where the partner turns into an unstoppable robot murderer once it confirms its target.

Call it Cloverfield: Audition.

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jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.
An 80s style romantic comedy, "So I married a Terminator".

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!

jojoinnit posted:

An 80s style romantic comedy, "So I married a Terminator".
Isn't that Dark Fate?

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Payndz posted:

Isn't that Dark Fate?

Please, I can only dream we got 120 minutes of Carl the Drapist and his sexless but trusting and meaningful matrimonial situation.

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!
On a sidenote, I'm playing Ghost Recon: Breakpoint, a game about killer drones and AIs gaining sentience, and one of the optional storylines involves... Terminators. Once you start it, even the music changes to become more Brad Fiedel-esque.

It's good fun, but I can't help thinking how much more awesome it would have been to have NPCs start talking about some crazy woman who says she came from the future, build up to talk about killer cyborgs so you can go "oh, it's a Terminator reference, ha ha!" - and then BAM, actual T-800 out of nowhere. Rather than there being a literal "Terminator" box on the mission select screen.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Payndz posted:

On a sidenote, I'm playing Ghost Recon: Breakpoint, a game about killer drones and AIs gaining sentience, and one of the optional storylines involves... Terminators. Once you start it, even the music changes to become more Brad Fiedel-esque.

It's good fun, but I can't help thinking how much more awesome it would have been to have NPCs start talking about some crazy woman who says she came from the future, build up to talk about killer cyborgs so you can go "oh, it's a Terminator reference, ha ha!" - and then BAM, actual T-800 out of nowhere. Rather than there being a literal "Terminator" box on the mission select screen.

It's a consequence of the Terminator stuff being promo for Dark Fate, iirc. Wildlands did similar stuff with Predator; the Sam Fisher cameo, which wasn't tied to anything, was handled more organically iirc.

e: essentially, with promo content, they usually make it as obvious and inorganic as possible so that nobody can miss the ad, even if it makes it a worse ad.

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.
Everything I hated about Genisys summed up in a tweet:

https://twitter.com/Coelasquid/status/1296207440866717697?s=20

They cast Jai Courtney, a block headed piece of muscle to play the resistance soldier who's never found time to meet a girl and eat a meal. I also hated the equally blockheaded guy they cast as John Connor.

Yes I know the comic is about Arnold. It just reminded me I can buy him as the infiltration robot more than I could buy any of those characters from being from the skull island future.

A lot of what they did in that annoyed me for the lack of appropriate detail. Like, they recreated the 1984 scenes right down to having Nike reproduce the exact kind of sneakers Michael Biehn wore, but they didn't give Sarah Connor the 1984 hair, instead giving her a sleek ponytail that would have stood out like a sore thumb back then.

My feeling between the last two is that Dark Fate was dragged down by needing to fit in Arnold but Genisys is only saved by including him halfway through. I wanted to like it so bad but all the casting felt wrong, right down to Matt Smith as nu-Skynet. So many weird choices in that one.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

If Matt Smith survives the 'destruction' of Skynet and Conner doesn't actually win the war, why does he bother sending Terminator-Connor back in time to build Genysis? Also why is Terminator-Connor building a time machine? (I can think of reasons, but the film never actually touches on this). If you have a time machine then by definition it doesn't matter when you have a time machine.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


jojoinnit posted:

They cast Jai Courtney, a block headed piece of muscle to play the resistance soldier who's never found time to meet a girl and eat a meal.

He had plenty of time because the future he came from is a different one than in the original The Terminator.

The Skynet Jai Courtney Reese is fighting in the future is just a puppet run by Matt Smith / Genisys. Genisys has learned that it can't completely end the time loop from the first movie, so instead it's carefully recreating it. In particular, it recreates the war as unfolding the way John has been told it will go because that means John can just walk through the paces, not ask too many questions, and keep winning. And because John effectively has precognition, the resistance has a much easier time than it did in the future Michael Biehn Reese came from, so Kyle Reese is well-fed, not suffering from PTSD, etc.

Similarly, Sarah Connor is now anachronistically dressing up and doing her hair like Terminator 2 Sarah Connor, while also being played by babyfaced Emilia Clarke, because a future robot has been caring for her—saving her a lot of the struggle she had in the original timeline—but also explicitly molding her into T2 Sarah.

I'm not saying I particularly care for their actual performances in the movie, but the casting for different physical types is appropriate for a story about various AIs creating and caring for people in order to slot them into pre-existing spots in a time loop.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
They were probably going to go into multiple timelines/realities duking it out as the next step. We never learned who sent Pops so it was probably going to go there.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

by VideoGames

Gatts posted:

They were probably going to go into multiple timelines/realities duking it out as the next step. We never learned who sent Pops so it was probably going to go there.
I feel like the next movie, if there is one, needs to go in that direction. One line that always stood out to me from T1 is when Reese said he was from "one possible future". So I was thinking about how many futures we've seen and where they split:

T1 is the original timeline that shows a post-Judgement Day war full of T-800s and HKs. (1)
T2 postpones Judgment Day, so that's a different future with T-1000s. (2)
T2's futures then branch out a few ways:
-T3 & Salvation are (I think) in the same post-T2 continuity, where Sarah dies of leukemia and John grows up without her. (3)
-TSCC is its own post T2-continuity, where Sarah and John jump to the future and catch her diagnosis early. (4)
-Dark Fate is another post-T2 continuity, where Skynet is gone but Legion rises up. Sarah's cancer is never mentioned. (5)
Genisys was set in the original T1 future in the opening scene, but the timeline changed when a Terminator attacked future John as he sent Reese back. (6)

I don't know that we'd see any of those specific futures clashing, like Legion vs Skynet, due to licensing and multiple producers. But having multiple Skynets fighting each other would be pretty badass, especially if one was a "good" Skynet.

jojoinnit
Dec 13, 2010

Strength and speed, that's why you're a special agent.

Sir Kodiak posted:

He had plenty of time because the future he came from is a different one than in the original The Terminator.

The Skynet Jai Courtney Reese is fighting in the future is just a puppet run by Matt Smith / Genisys. Genisys has learned that it can't completely end the time loop from the first movie, so instead it's carefully recreating it. In particular, it recreates the war as unfolding the way John has been told it will go because that means John can just walk through the paces, not ask too many questions, and keep winning. And because John effectively has precognition, the resistance has a much easier time than it did in the future Michael Biehn Reese came from, so Kyle Reese is well-fed, not suffering from PTSD, etc.

Similarly, Sarah Connor is now anachronistically dressing up and doing her hair like Terminator 2 Sarah Connor, while also being played by babyfaced Emilia Clarke, because a future robot has been caring for her—saving her a lot of the struggle she had in the original timeline—but also explicitly molding her into T2 Sarah.

I'm not saying I particularly care for their actual performances in the movie, but the casting for different physical types is appropriate for a story about various AIs creating and caring for people in order to slot them into pre-existing spots in a time loop.

This makes sense, thanks, but I shouldn't need to have it explained to me when I watched the movie twice. I feel like that was supposed to be made obvious in the sequels that never happened but was not very visible on a casual watch. The script felt like kind of a mess so that didn't help my comprehension.

I seem to catch movies at much more of a surface level than you guys. Like the guy who responded earlier when we were talking about Dark Fate who said the Rev-9 is a named that as a biblical allusion...

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


That Christian assassinating Jesus movie was more inventive with time traveling shenanigans than the latter Terminator films are.

Qualia
Dec 14, 2006

jojoinnit posted:

[...]I shouldn't need to have it explained to me when I watched the movie twice. I feel like that was supposed to be made obvious in the sequels that never happened but was not very visible on a casual watch. The script felt like kind of a mess so that didn't help my comprehension.

I seem to catch movies at much more of a surface level than you guys. Like the guy who responded earlier when we were talking about Dark Fate who said the Rev-9 is a named that as a biblical allusion...
everything is always surface, just depends if you're treading water at sea level or at the bottom of the marianas. rev-9 is a biblical call-back; there is no fault in not catching that if you were never exposed to judeo-christian lit to dat degree. it's an a priori v. a posteriori situation -- nothing wrong c watching a movie three times!

Qualia fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 21, 2020

Violator
May 15, 2003


Groovelord Neato posted:

That Christian assassinating Jesus movie was more inventive with time traveling shenanigans than the latter Terminator films are.

What the?

FistEnergy
Nov 3, 2000

DAY CREW: WORKING HARD

Fun Shoe

Violator posted:

What the?

Assassin 33AD lmao

just listen to Chapo episode 413

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBlGup9uCwU

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014



When I first saw the movie posted about in one of threads here that I immediately came to mind.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

jojoinnit posted:

This makes sense, thanks, but I shouldn't need to have it explained to me when I watched the movie twice. I feel like that was supposed to be made obvious in the sequels that never happened but was not very visible on a casual watch. The script felt like kind of a mess so that didn't help my comprehension.

It’s actually a matter of looking more closely at the surface, instead of looking for an explanation ‘beneath’ the images.

For example, it’s very superficially obvious that Jai Courtney looks nothing like Michael Beihn. Everyone noticed it - including you. But, instead of getting caught up speculating about the secret behind-the-scenes reasons (was it a mistake by the casting director? Did a producer have a personal grudge against Biehn? Etc....), we can just accept the obvious fact that this Kyle Reese is a different character from the other Kyle Reese(s).

And then, you can note the other details that support this interpretation: Kyle’s backstory in the opening flashback is totally different from his backstory in T4, John Connor has more info about the future than Sarah could possibly have known in T2, the entire scene is triumphant rather than scary as it is in T1... and, y’know, the basic causal loop from the previous films is totally erased when Kyle witnesses John getting stabbed.

All those things add up to say that the events at the start of the film are the result of countless tiny variations in the loop, compounding over n iterations. We have a Kyle Reese, but he’s lived a healthier life.

The biblical references are there to help explicate things, but are not super ‘deep’ either. Calling the robot a “Book of Revelation, Chapter 9” is basically just calling it a “Locust”.

Arthur Bowlsworth
Dec 5, 2003

Wot wot, old boy. Might one have a toke?
I must have missed that, I assumed it meant revision 9

Agent Rush
Aug 30, 2008

You looked, Junker!

Arthur Bowlsworth posted:

I must have missed that, I assumed it meant revision 9

It can be, but there's a reason it's called the Rev 9 and not Revision or Revelation.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 11 years!
Melman v2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3TRIZte94w

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

Holy poo poo, this is brilliant!

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(

The first 25 minutes of Dark Fate are some of the best action put on film fight me. Like seriously just watch it again.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Fragmented posted:

The first 25 minutes of Dark Fate are some of the best action put on film fight me. Like seriously just watch it again.

It's pretty good but I dunno if it's that good.

The fight scenes between Grace and the Rev-9 are all good poo poo though, definitely an improvement over similar scenes in the last few movies.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Dark Fate would’ve been better if it was just two hours of the Terminator slaughtering all those ICE agents.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

ruddiger posted:

Dark Fate would’ve been better if it was just two hours of the Terminator slaughtering all those ICE agents.

Heroic robot sent back to beat ICE - not to stop Judgment Day, but simply to prevent humanity’s 1000-year reich - is the first good sequel idea I’ve heard.

SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Nov 5, 2020

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

I was feeling pretty good watching this scene



Agent Rush
Aug 30, 2008

You looked, Junker!

ruddiger posted:

I was feeling pretty good watching this scene





Yeah, it's a real "This is supposed to be the bad guy?" moment.


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Heroic robot sent back to beat ICE - not to stop Judgment Day, but to simply to prevent humanity’s 1000-year reich - is the first good sequel idea I’ve heard.

Sounds like a good time to me!

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Pretty much the only thing I liked about Dark Fate was the new Terminator.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Agent Rush posted:

Yeah, it's a real "This is supposed to be the bad guy?" moment.

That's the problem with it.

James Cameron talks about the choice of the T-1000 being a cop, not just in the practical sense of how the robot could make use of the disguise, but also how it characterizes him. As he says on the commentary track, "cops think of all non-cops as less than they are: stupid, weak, and evil." And that's the T-1000: condescending, brutal, and assured of its superiority. As such, he fits into the LA police department perfectly. The only police officer he kills, and even this is off-screen and we have to assume, is the one whose identity he steals at the very beginning.

Whereas you don't get that with the Border Patrol stuff. He has to kill the people in the drone-control room to be able to surveil the target he wants. His efforts to take charge of his targets result in another fight. The implication is that the Border Patrol system is resistant to his efforts rather than him slotting in naturally.

Similarly, I don't see how it informs his personality. If we think of how this iteration of the shapeshifting robot is different, he's friendlier than the T-1000; got an easy smile when he wants to charm someone. But what does that say about the Border Patrol as compared to the LA police?

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.



Fragmented posted:

The first 25 minutes of Dark Fate are some of the best action put on film fight me. Like seriously just watch it again.

I've gone back and rewatched it a few times, all the action sequences are great the parts in between are just very middling.

ruddiger posted:

I was feeling pretty good watching this scene





TBH I was surprised there was no chud outrage over this, he murks like a dozen CBP/ICE guys in that sequence alone and probably another 15-20 military or law enforcement people on top of that throughout the movie? Definitely the most anti-establishment death count I can think of in recent years.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Heroic robot sent back to beat ICE - not to stop Judgment Day, but to simply to prevent humanity’s 1000-year reich - is the first good sequel idea I’ve heard.

:hmmyes:

Sir Kodiak posted:

That's the problem with it.

James Cameron talks about the choice of the T-1000 being a cop, not just in the practical sense of how the robot could make use of the disguise, but also how it characterizes him. As he says on the commentary track, "cops think of all non-cops as less than they are: stupid, weak, and evil." And that's the T-1000: condescending, brutal, and assured of its superiority. As such, he fits into the LA police department perfectly. The only police officer he kills, and even this is off-screen and we have to assume, is the one whose identity he steals at the very beginning.

Whereas you don't get that with the Border Patrol stuff. He has to kill the people in the drone-control room to be able to surveil the target he wants. His efforts to take charge of his targets result in another fight. The implication is that the Border Patrol system is resistant to his efforts rather than him slotting in naturally.

Similarly, I don't see how it informs his personality. If we think of how this iteration of the shapeshifting robot is different, he's friendlier than the T-1000; got an easy smile when he wants to charm someone. But what does that say about the Border Patrol as compared to the LA police?

Feels like this is the result of them trying to show him as bad and ruthless, but yeah your point is correct. He's effective enough as an infiltrator that he doesn't need to kill any of the security or law enforcement people, he can just talk his way in or find a workaround. Comes down to not having a coherent vision beyond "robots bad" I guess.

Violator
May 15, 2003


Didn’t the director say that there was a lot more anti-ICE and pro-immigration stuff that either the studio or Cameron forced him to take out? I know he was surprising outspoken about Cameron’s involvement being overbearing.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Heroic robot sent back to beat ICE - not to stop Judgment Day, but simply to prevent humanity’s 1000-year reich - is the first good sequel idea I’ve heard.

A benevolent AI trying to uplift humanity's timeline is the implied backstory to Genisys and it is indeed a shame we never got more with it, though that's the standard problem with saving something for the sequel.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Violator posted:

Didn’t the director say that there was a lot more anti-ICE and pro-immigration stuff that either the studio or Cameron forced him to take out? I know he was surprising outspoken about Cameron’s involvement being overbearing.

Release the Icing ICErs Cut.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Chuds didn’t watch it because the fact it was starring WOMEN was too feminist so they boycotted it.

I think. I talked to someone irl who said they won’t see it and I said yeah me neither, they said it was because it had women in it and it was pushing an agenda.

Lol. I’m just tired of terminator movies dude

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
T-1000 also probably killed the motorcycle cop and helicopter pilot (not sure if he was technically police)

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

He politely asked the helicopter pilot to get out.

Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012


CelticPredator posted:

Chuds didn’t watch it because the fact it was starring WOMEN was too feminist so they boycotted it.

I think. I talked to someone irl who said they won’t see it and I said yeah me neither, they said it was because it had women in it and it was pushing an agenda.

Lol. I’m just tired of terminator movies dude

Everytime I hear or read "agenda" now I imagine Holloway from Prometheus saying it with squinting, suspicious eyes.

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Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


david_a posted:

T-1000 also probably killed the motorcycle cop and helicopter pilot (not sure if he was technically police)

Yeah, you can quibble about the exact police body count, but not one of them is shown or made explicit. Like, the helicopter pilot jumps out. Plausibly, that might be fatal, but, frankly, so is shooting dozens of cops knees off with a minigun; it's a movie. Whereas Dark Fate shows the Rev-9 murdering Border Patrol agents on-screen, with them specifically acting in opposition to one of their own attempting to kill a young woman who crossed the border illegally. It reads totally differently.

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