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WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.

Pun inside a pun.

Kojima.

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drkeiscool
Aug 1, 2014


Soiled Meat

aaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA kojima and his puns

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


Also, if Fragile's "I'm Fragile, but not that Fragile" thing sounds weirdly translated, it's because it is. What she's actually meant to be saying is "I'm Fragile; I deliver damaged goods*" or rather "though I bring damaged goods*, I am still Fragile". She's basically saying "my past doesn't define me". This makes their conversation (endgame spoilers) just after Sam returns from the Beach make a lot more sense: In both languages Sam says "you never did like breaking things" which prompts her to say the phrase, but it fits with the Japanese version because the phrase is about broken things.

*"Damaged goods" is represented by the furigana for her name, it's another wordplay pun that does not translate to English in the slightest.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 22, 2020

drkeiscool
Aug 1, 2014


Soiled Meat

CJacobs posted:

Also, if Fragile's "I'm Fragile, but not that Fragile" thing sounds weirdly translated, it's because it is. What she's actually meant to be saying is "I'm Fragile; I deliver damaged goods*" or rather "though I bring damaged goods*, I am still Fragile". She's basically saying "my past doesn't define me". This makes their conversation (late game spoilers) just after Sam confronts Amelie on the Beach[ make a lot more sense: In both languages Sam says "you never did like breaking things" which prompts her to say the phrase, but it fits with the Japanese version because it's about broken things.

*"Damaged goods" is represented by the furigana for her name, it's another wordplay pun that does not translate to English in the slightest.

i actually thought the line was almost fine. it probably should have been "Just because my name is Fragile, doesn't mean I am fragile."

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


Yeah, I think it was a case where they had no choice but to fudge it because there's really no way to keep the pun AND write it in proper English. There's tons of that with Fragile, actually, they use the literal word "fragile" or words that also mean "fragile" to make word puns all the time. Two examples which are still in the English dialogue are "I won't break" and "I fix what's broken and reconnect" (which is the line she says just before the catchphrase in the spoiler above). It's not a 'ha ha' funny pun, more like a word association thing. We don't really have that in English so all of that had to be either fudged or written out literally.

Jeremy Blaustein has a really interesting article about the localization of MGS1 that explains some of the difficulties with making dialogue sound 'natural' without losing meaning. It's a fun read because he dumps on the re-translation done for Twin Snakes and how unrealistic and and literal it is.

edit: For example, "Keep on keeping on" imo adds a ton of personality to the game, but in Japanese they just say the standard "ganbatte" instead. It's not always worth discarding the original line and writing something with a different meaning or intent, but imo sometimes it is the right choice.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Oct 22, 2020

Shinmera
Mar 25, 2013


Keep on keeping on is such an integral phrase for the game to me I'm shocked it's just ganbatte in Japanese.

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!


Fragile's catchphrase is perfect and it rules, get real losers

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


I like that she pronounces Fragile a different way every time she says it. Variety is the spice of life for my cool teleporting friend Fra-jee-lay.

dantheman650
Jun 2, 2009



Can someone explain roads and cooperation? I built the first road segment in chapter 3 with no help - I supplied all the materials. A day later it was extended into some crazy super highway stretching all the way to the next district center and my name isnít on the original auto-paver. How does the game determine any of this? Did I just get lucky with some helpful folks supplying tons of materials? Why isnít my name on the original paver?

night slime
May 14, 2014


dantheman650 posted:

Can someone explain roads and cooperation? I built the first road segment in chapter 3 with no help - I supplied all the materials. A day later it was extended into some crazy super highway stretching all the way to the next district center and my name isnít on the original auto-paver. How does the game determine any of this? Did I just get lucky with some helpful folks supplying tons of materials? Why isnít my name on the original paver?

Whoever's in your Bridge Links (accessible through one of the menus, don't remember offhand how to get there) supplied materials. I think your name isn't there because they donated first unfortunately, or donated the most, it's not explained how it works.

CJacobs posted:

Also, if Fragile's "I'm Fragile, but not that Fragile" thing sounds weirdly translated, it's because it is. What she's actually meant to be saying is "I'm Fragile; I deliver damaged goods*" or rather "though I bring damaged goods*, I am still Fragile". She's basically saying "my past doesn't define me". This makes their conversation (endgame spoilers) just after Sam returns from the Beach make a lot more sense: In both languages Sam says "you never did like breaking things" which prompts her to say the phrase, but it fits with the Japanese version because the phrase is about broken things.

*"Damaged goods" is represented by the furigana for her name, it's another wordplay pun that does not translate to English in the slightest.

I was wondering if the translation was different than I originally thought. When she says "I'm fragile, not but that fragile" I thought she might have been talking like "yes I'm her, but not the her from before.

It must be unpleasant to translate a Kojima script like it's a politician's speech that you need to adhere to. Literature translators seem to like the option for their own creativity.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


The game will sometimes sneakily swap out structures you built with ones another player built in the same spot, freeing up some of your chiral network bandwidth so you can build more stuff in your world. I think roads are different though, and it pulls the name from whoever donated most recently to repair them or something like that.

Nobody's really sure how the road material contribution pool works, but generally the accepted theory is that there's a "master" pool of road materials, and everyone contributes to it when they donate mats to build any road. When you connect a new area to the network the game grabs some of other peoples' supplies from that pool to build roads near the area. You get popups sometimes that say "XxGokuWeedlord420xX contributed to an Auto-Paver near Y" and I assume that's the game pulling from the pool to add to or complete a road for you. Which roads are eligible for being auto-built by the game depends on how far west your network connection reaches for sure though.

Zazz Razzamatazz
Apr 19, 2016

No hunks allowed, ya dangus

night slime posted:

Whoever's in your Bridge Links (accessible through one of the menus, don't remember offhand how to get there) supplied materials. I think your name isn't there because they donated first unfortunately, or donated the most, it's not explained how it works.


I was wondering if the translation was different than I originally thought. When she says "I'm fragile, not but that fragile" I thought she might have been talking like "yes I'm her, but not the her from before.

It must be unpleasant to translate a Kojima script like it's a politician's speech that you need to adhere to. Literature translators seem to like the option for their own creativity.

I feel like translating it more like "I'm Fragile, but I'm not that easily broken" would have been better. I always took it to be referencing her rising above all the bad stuff that's happened to her lately. That city getting nuked, the timefall ect.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


Speaking of broken things and damaged goods, the catchphrase translation fudge is why Higgs keeps calling her that, and why she says "You're damaged goods" after punching his lights out. All of the references to kowaremono or I guess kowareta mono were changed to some variant of "broken" or "damaged" in the localization except for directly referring to her name. This resulted in completely losing the nuance in their few interactions: He's making fun of her in a clever way instead of just an insulting way, and she's embracing her new identity without letting it define her. He says "but you can't win, you're broken!" And her response is not just "No u", it's meant to be taken as "drat right. And so are you." All of this is lost in English because "fragile" to us doesn't mean "broken" or " damaged", it means "damageable", something you have to protect.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Oct 22, 2020

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007




CJacobs posted:

Ameri. As in, America.

As in, Ameri Ka. Because she's a soul (Ka) on the Beach, and not a body (Ha).


God DAMNIT Kojima

Malcolm Turnbeug posted:

Yeah I tried to zipline chilled deliveries and it barely ever works, you need to use a truck, which are apparently refrigerated, I never got any cargo degradation messages that way

Except driving in a truck is like hammering nails into your dick with a jackhammer

GreenBuckanneer fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 22, 2020

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


CJacobs posted:

Speaking of broken things and damaged goods, the catchphrase translation fudge is why Higgs keeps calling her that, and why she says "You're damaged goods" after punching his lights out. All of the references to kowaremono or I guess kowareta mono were changed to some variant of "broken" or "damaged" in the localization except for directly referring to her name. This resulted in completely losing the nuance in their few interactions: He's making fun of her in a clever way instead of just an insulting way, and she's embracing her new identity without letting it define her. He says "but you can't win, you're broken!" And her response is not just "No u", it's meant to be taken as "drat right. And so are you." All of this is lost in English because "fragile" to us doesn't mean "broken" or " damaged", it means "damageable", something you have to protect.

bad localizations always get me irate and this is making me especially so!

elf help book
Aug 5, 2004

It's not a dream, or a lie.
I know my sister is alive out there.


CJacobs posted:

Speaking of which, for those that have beaten the game, did you know that in Japanese the 'pun' behind Amelie's name is different? Both are plot spoilers though so here goes:

Amelie's name even in Japanese is specifically "Amelie", not "Ameri". The Harry Potter Chamber of Secrets "Soul that's a lie" scene still happens in the Japanese version, but there's a second separate pun based on the pronunciation as it's still pronounced "Ameri" when said aloud.

Ameri. As in, America.

As in, Ameri Ka. Because she's a soul (Ka) on the Beach, and not a body (Ha).

awesome

i love this game

CaptainSkinny
Apr 22, 2011

You get it?
No.



GreenBuckanneer posted:


Except driving in a truck is like hammering nails into your dick with a jackhammer

Trucks don't flip over while turning on roads, even on 2 wheels. Drive faster.

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!


Krazyface posted:

I sort of stopped noticing the stupid name stuff after the first five hours, but Cliff explaining that he's like a cliff killed me

100% the funniest thing Kojima has ever written

NoEyedSquareGuy
Mar 16, 2009

Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."


Is there a localization thing that explains the "Princess Beach" line? Because that's the worst poo poo I've ever heard in a video game. People who hate the game and think it's boring should power through it anyway just so they can experience that terrible line and have proper context for it.

drkeiscool
Aug 1, 2014


Soiled Meat

NoEyedSquareGuy posted:

Is there a localization thing that explains the "Princess Beach" line? Because that's the worst poo poo I've ever heard in a video game. People who hate the game and think it's boring should power through it anyway just so they can experience that terrible line and have proper context for it.

that's the best line in the whole loving game

dantheman650
Jun 2, 2009



How can you tell how much cargo a truck can carry? I was able to finally steal a mule truck, and I loaded it up only to have it tell me I couldnít get in. So I had to take cargo out one by one until I could drive it. Please tell me I just missed the weight limit display somewhere.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007





dantheman650 posted:

How can you tell how much cargo a truck can carry? I was able to finally steal a mule truck, and I loaded it up only to have it tell me I couldnít get in. So I had to take cargo out one by one until I could drive it. Please tell me I just missed the weight limit display somewhere.

Itís on the tailgate for both MULE and BRIDGES trucks though the MULE trucks canít carry nearly as much. If you had cargo on your back it automatically unloads when you get in, but if the truck is already at capacity then nope.

Kazzah
Jul 15, 2011

Formerly known as
Krazyface


Hair Elf

There's no way to see the weight limit in your menus for some reason, but you can see how full the truck is based on the lights on the back end, visible when you're driving. Note that MULE trucks have kinda lovely capacity. Bridges trucks have a volume limit, but no weight limit.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 2 hours!


CJacobs posted:

Also, if Fragile's "I'm Fragile, but not that Fragile" thing sounds weirdly translated, it's because it is. What she's actually meant to be saying is "I'm Fragile; I deliver damaged goods*" or rather "though I bring damaged goods*, I am still Fragile". She's basically saying "my past doesn't define me". This makes their conversation (endgame spoilers) just after Sam returns from the Beach make a lot more sense: In both languages Sam says "you never did like breaking things" which prompts her to say the phrase, but it fits with the Japanese version because the phrase is about broken things.

*"Damaged goods" is represented by the furigana for her name, it's another wordplay pun that does not translate to English in the slightest.

comedy option her teleportation works like The Prestige and she's literally not the fragile she was earlier

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Death Defied.


Pro tip in case you ever need to really cram stuff into a truck: There's a limited space for storing small boxes in the passenger seat next to Sam, but it only puts stuff there if it's on your back/arms/legs when you climb in. If you really wanna jam pack it, take off all the L/XL containers from Sam's back and replace them with any S/M sized ones you have when you hop in.

night slime
May 14, 2014


I like how it puts a corpse in the passenger seat next to you and also indicates the corpses in the back are upright as well

madeintaipei
Jul 13, 2012



night slime posted:

I like how it puts a corpse in the passenger seat next to you and also indicates the corpses in the back are upright as well

The tie-downs in the back of the truck probably require the corpses be upright.

That was way more thinking about how I, as a delivery driver, would strap dead folks down than is healthy.

I'm fine with the trucks not being fun to drive. Delivery trucks aren't usually good at anything but hauling stuff and (hopefully) not breaking too often. I think they should all be just a bit broken. Every truck has quirks, little squeaks and rattles, and perpetually broken bits unique to it.

A door handle breaks off in Sam's hand, "Typical Bridges bullshit!"

"Oh God, it makes really bad sounds during left turns and I have half the country to go. Creeeeeeeak, creak, creak, creak."

PunkBoy
Aug 22, 2008

You wanna get through this?


Now I'm thinking of Desert Bus, but it's a drive across the Death Stranding world.

punishedkissinger
Sep 20, 2017



I probably did like three hours of deliveries exclusively with the truck. i also have a broken brain and lile a hundred hours in American Truck Simulator so

dantheman650
Jun 2, 2009



I am enjoying this game but itís so annoyingly obtuse. I couldnít figure out how to use the floating platform and had to look it up - why doesnít it work like the rest of the equipment? The game says it consumes crystals while active but as far as I can tell does not show you anywhere how quickly itís consuming them.

Also, what does eating a cryptobite in the private room do? As far as I can tell it does nothing.

Also annoying is that if I see a structure that needs more materials, I need to do subtraction to figure out how much (3 times for the three different materials) then remember that number, go to the district center, then figure out what sizes of materials to claim. Itís easy math but there should just be some map at the Claim screen that shows structures that can be upgraded and how much they need.

I am really having a lot of fun but I also feel like so many of the mechanics are purposely obtuse and anti-player.

Zonko_T.M.
Jul 1, 2007
Nah. Offhand, I'd say I haven't learned a damned thing.

Floating carriers consume crystals pretty slowly. I'm not sure of the exact rate but even when I was low on crystals I never ran out from using one. Did you figure out how to ride it like a skateboard?

Cryptobiotes in the room don't do anything afaik except help make it so Sam can produce poop grenades. Gotta eat solids to make solids. Eating regular cryptobiotes in the field will also do this so it's not something special to the ones in the room.

night slime
May 14, 2014


dantheman650 posted:

I am enjoying this game but itís so annoyingly obtuse. I couldnít figure out how to use the floating platform and had to look it up - why doesnít it work like the rest of the equipment? The game says it consumes crystals while active but as far as I can tell does not show you anywhere how quickly itís consuming them.

Also, what does eating a cryptobite in the private room do? As far as I can tell it does nothing.

Also annoying is that if I see a structure that needs more materials, I need to do subtraction to figure out how much (3 times for the three different materials) then remember that number, go to the district center, then figure out what sizes of materials to claim. Itís easy math but there should just be some map at the Claim screen that shows structures that can be upgraded and how much they need.

I am really having a lot of fun but I also feel like so many of the mechanics are purposely obtuse and anti-player.

I think you might be able to view how much a structure needs if you go to the map and look at the generator structure icon? I don't know what the menu looks like prior to rebuilding the roads though. I'm pretty sure you can see how a zipline is doing and you can infer from there how much you might need.

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008






night slime posted:

I think you might be able to view how much a structure needs if you go to the map and look at the generator structure icon?

You absolutely can

dantheman650
Jun 2, 2009



Johnny Truant posted:

You absolutely can

Thatís great! Thereís a lot of overwhelming visual information in virtually every screen so I must have overlooked that possibility. That should make road plans a little easier.

Johnny Truant
Jul 22, 2008






dantheman650 posted:

Thatís great! Thereís a lot of overwhelming visual information in virtually every screen so I must have overlooked that possibility. That should make road plans a little easier.



I think I was something like 15-20 hours into the game before I realized the right portion of your map screen isn't just like, a hosed up format of your deliveries, but that you can press a button and have it slide over to properly fit. I for real thought it was just some weird background/graphical kind of scenery

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.


CJacobs posted:

God no, how in the world are you supposed to S-Rank that timed delivery where you have to cart more than one truck's worth of beer across the entire Eastern Region in like 8 minutes. The only Great Deliverer here is Sam Porter Bridges, that guy who ports stuff for Bridges.

That's the only delivery I didn't care to S. There's too many forced BT encounters in the way. That mountain pass after Port Knot is some Afghanistan poo poo, narrow mountain road with all kinds of poo poo waiting to kill you.

I was just carpeting the road with rockets but they still got the truck stuck in the tar, and there's a boss battle halfway through. gently caress all that. Luckily I still got enough points from it to get the achievement.

Zonko_T.M.
Jul 1, 2007
Nah. Offhand, I'd say I haven't learned a damned thing.

I did find it annoying that the Eastern region has that pass with no alternate path around it. You can get to the windfarm or from Capital Knot to the first waystation without encountering BTs if you're willing to do some mountain climbing but you have absolutely no way of getting through that pass without having to wade through the BTs there. Getting a zipline set up there was a pain but made leveling up that region so much easier.

Snowy
Oct 6, 2010

A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense





punishedkissinger posted:

I probably did like three hours of deliveries exclusively with the truck. i also have a broken brain and lile a hundred hours in American Truck Simulator so

I used the truck plenty and never made any roads besides the one a quest made me do

Iím probably not smart but collecting all those materials was boring as hell

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006



I loved climbing mountains with the bike. It was more of a pain in the rear end than going on foot but it wasn't as amusing.

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dantheman650
Jun 2, 2009



Is a high or low projected post-delivery condition for bot orders good? I thought for sure high (as in this will be the packageís condition after delivery) but it seems like the opposite when I actually see the results screen.

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