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xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

habeasdorkus posted:

I'm a huge fan of Europe being backwards as gently caress in EUIV.

Crushed backwater Europe is cool as hell and I'm incredibly down for it.

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Tulip
Jun 3, 2008

yeah thats pretty good


Would the Flamboyant Schemers Europe also qualify as 'backwards Europe' or was it just pure hell world?

Kangxi posted:

Bonestantism

Would the Pro-Bonists be protestants or like counter-reformation?

E: Bonapartism is obviously something like the Pilgrims.

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

So how are the Khazars doing?

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."

SirPhoebos posted:

So how are the Khazars doing?

Pretty well! They're in three tags in 1444:

1) Khazaria, near the Dnieper river, with majority Rabbinic Judaism,
2) Another group had converted to Monothelites and are centered around the middle-sized town of Kyiv
3) Kazan is mostly Karaite.

Xelkelvos posted:

So now that things are starting to get into gear, what did all of the voting mean?

A lot of the results are partially visible in the Intermission posts and the Prelude, although a few things will still be revealed in the first gameplay posts for EU4.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
I'm mostly curious what the alternatives would have been.

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015
I'm sorry, is that some Lands of Red and Gold in Australia?

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."

Fivemarks posted:

I'm sorry, is that some Lands of Red and Gold in Australia?

Yes!!


Xelkelvos posted:

I'm mostly curious what the alternatives would have been.

Sure, I will label what we didn't vote for.

Kangxi posted:

1 - MONGOLIA
A(21) - The Dried-Up Tree - associated with essencelessness and being without result.
B(20) - The Ground of Gold - where staying put yields good results. (Trade bonus/development boost, institutional bonus)
C(10) - The Treasury of Jewels - with perfect prosperity. (Lucky nation, expansion to the Urals)

2 - LATER JIN CHINA
A(11) - The Jeweled-Banner of Victory - the jeweled banner of victory is hoisted. (lucky nation/discipline bonus; expansion into Korea, Mongolia, and Manchus)
B(16)- The White Umbrella of Good Fortune - where the flower garden ripens on time, where journeys are successful and one arrives safely. (Greatly expanded Buddhist missionary bonus; specific flavor event chain)
C(24) - Adding Butter to Burning Flames - adding butter again and again to the burning flames of desire, increasing the demonstration of joy; though activities of earth and water are harmed.

3 - FURTHER EAST
A(17) - The House of Gold Tidings - the gatekeeper of the east.
B(17) - The Golden Wheel - the amazement of achieving treasure without effort
C(17) - The Demon of Death - killing, death, and destruction.


4 - THE SOUTHEAST
A(11) - The Bright Star - The non-dispersion of the beautiful accumulation which has been gathered. (defense bonus, trade bonus, Ayutthaya, Champa, Dai Viet bonuses)
B(12)- The Golden Mountain - the unchanging auspicious symbol. (multiple lucky nations in the Shan States and Malay peninsula; development bonus)
C(28) - The Great Fiery Weapon - the subduing of all others with endowed bravery.

5 - THE SOUTH
A(34) - The King of Power - the roar of brave tigers and lions.
B(6) - The Jeweled Banner of Victory - the jeweled banner of victory is hoisted. (reduced risk of revolts in Tibet)
C(11) - The Nectar-Like Medicine - arriving at the happy stream in the golden south. (greatly increased development/trade/colonization)

6 - THE SOUTHWEST
A(5) - The Overflowing Jeweled Vessel - the concurrence of golden vase and ingredient of nectar. (Abyssinia expands to the south, competing with states on the Kenyan coast)
B(22) - The Vase of Nectar - to drink nectar and gain immortality. (Hindu Ethiopia in protracted warfare with Somalis, Beta Israel, one-province minors)
C(24) - The Mara Demon of Aggregates - being pressed down by a large hill.

7 - THE NEAR WEST
A(16) - The Mara Demon of Aggregates - No matters are positive, as a dead tree is sliced in half. (Total Timurid collapse, Jerusalem Raj expands into Tibetan Iraq; Buddhist Egypt prosperous)
B(24) - Pool without a Source of Water - assembly of demons from the southwest.
C(11) - The King of Power - the roar of brave tigers and lions. (detente between Timurids and Jerusalem; Tibetan Iraq caught in the middle)

8 - THE FAR WEST
A(29) -The Demon of the Heavenly Son - Ill augurs, as a house burns.
B(8) -The Vase of Nectar - the activities of peace are accomplished. (Scandanavian development boost, they raid more and earlier; naval bonus)
C(14) -The Mara Demon of the Aggregate - Words from the great slaughterer. (3/4ths depopulation of western Europe)

9 - THE OTHER WORLD - NORTH
A(19) -The Overflowing Jeweled Vessel - the good field of increased happiness.
B(17) - Adding Butter to Burning Flames - enemies destroyed in the east or the center. (Triple Alliance retains a foothold in the region; local polities smaller and weaker)
C(15) - The White Conch - more good news and fame. (Prestige/trade bonus)

10 - THE OTHER WORLD - THE CENTER
A(15) -The Vase of Nectar - Turbulence among relatives. (Rebellion of local city-states)
B(6) -The Demon of Afflictions - Activity that accompanies destruction. (Comanche khanate greatly expanded/Tarascan state rebels)
C(30) -The Demon of the Heavenly Son - If the fires of desire blaze, oneself is burnt.

11 - THE OTHER WORLD - SOUTH
A(17) -The Dried-Up Tree - proclaimed by the messenger of the demon Mara. (Near-total Incan collapse/multiple successor states)
B(19) -The White Conch - thoughts renowned like a pleasing tune.
C(15) -The Jeweled-Banner of Victory - the jeweled banner of victory is hoisted. (Single Inca state on the continent; lucky nation)

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

I hate to do this, but I'm interested in the summary descriptions of what we'll be getting, though I'd expect you'd want to wait till everything's ready to show off.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
I'd also like to say thanks to everybody who helped with the conversion process so far, either with flags, localization, ideas, mechanics, trade routes, or just talking about ideas and more. This would have taken a lot longer and the mod would be a lot worse without your advice and contributions.

After the EU4 part of the LP is done I will put all this on Steam if that is all right.

QuoProQuid - flags
megane - flags
Chatrapati - flags
Tulip - flags
MaxieSatan - flags/localization/map
Ikasuhito - flags
tunapirate - trade routes/localization
xthetenth - writing/trade routes/playtesting
zanni - ideas/writing
sheepdodger - trade nodes/discussion
Pachito - ideas/writing/South America/playtesting
Ofaloaf - ideas/mechanics
Mr.Morgenstern - playtesting/ideas
Empress Theonora - ideas/writing

xthetenth posted:

I hate to do this, but I'm interested in the summary descriptions of what we'll be getting, though I'd expect you'd want to wait till everything's ready to show off.

1 - MONGOLIA
A(21) - The Dried-Up Tree - associated with essencelessness and being without result.
The great Mongol khanate, already in a long decline after centuries of stagnation, was weakened further after the Pyrrhic victory against the Demon Empress Lasya. Much of the west has broken away up to the Urals, as well as a separate Oirat Khanate has migrated to the east, and it will be likely although not certain that the entire great khanate collapses.

2 - LATER JIN CHINA
C(24) - Adding Butter to Burning Flames - adding butter again and again to the burning flames of desire, increasing the demonstration of joy; though activities of earth and water are harmed.
The Buddhist Purgyals have taken quite well in China for the first few decades of their rule, and they are supported by a large part of the population in the north. However, they are surrounded by opponents who do not necessarily offer tribute to them, and even some pirate republics to the east. The Bai people have broken away in the southwest. The remnants of the Han Dynasty cling desperately to Taiwan and even the coasts of Fujian and may not be easily destroyed.

3 - FURTHER EAST
A(17) - The House of Gold Tidings - the gatekeeper of the east.
B(17) - The Golden Wheel - the amazement of achieving treasure without effort
C(17) - The Demon of Death - killing, death, and destruction.

In Kyushu, pirates set out and ply the routes across the East China Sea. To their east, Vajrayana Buddhist monks tear up the roads and temples of the old order and seek to totally remake society. In the further east, the remnants of an ancient clan cling to the shogunate in Chiba.

4 - THE SOUTHEAST
C(28) - The Great Fiery Weapon - the subduing of all others with endowed bravery.
The Bamarized Shan kingdoms of Ava, and Thai kingdom of Ayutthaya are fierce competitors for regional influence, after a process of subjugating their smaller neighbors. Perhaps the only thing they have in common is their acceptance of similar Buddhist lineages and traditions. They are both well-armed and will be difficult to invade, and should not only withstand any foreign incursions from the Later Jin Dynasty or the Tibetans but may play a larger role in expansion to the southeast.

5 - THE SOUTH
A(34) - The King of Power - the roar of brave tigers and lions.
The southern vassal kings which are part of the Tibetan Empire, many of which have their roots in the most powerful of the kings that rebelled after the death of Lasya, retain much of their old power and sovereignty. The greatest of these is Tamilakam, which will most likely field a large army and navy of its own and set out to establish its reach through trade or colonization. Other potential competitors include the kings of Rajputana, Andhra and Punjab.

6 - THE SOUTHWEST
C(24) - The Mara Demon of Aggregates - being pressed down by a large hill.
Hindu Ethiopia is still a regional power, but is troubled by multiple waves of rebellions, inhospitable neighbors, and a war from the Somali Ajuran Sultanate

7 - THE NEAR WEST
B(24) - Pool without a Source of Water - assembly of demons from the southwest.
The successes of Timur II were ephemeral; while the empire has retained much of Persia, the entire Arab Peninsula has broken away into a series of smaller successor states; and as for the Jerusalem Raj, a Buddhist court faction has seized control.

8 - THE FAR WEST
A(29) -The Demon of the Heavenly Son - Ill augurs, as a house burns.
Any kind of organized authority is still rarely found in what was once called Christendom; a few kingdoms, largely of Norse or Nahua establishment or perhaps both, are the predominant powers west of the Rhine. Many of the coasts are in a state beyond any local lord's control, having been attacked repeatedly by pirate republics in the north and south. The continent has recovered slightly from its nadir, and there could be a kind of peace established by a single hegemon later, but that is long in coming.

9 - THE OTHER WORLD - NORTH
A(19) -The Overflowing Jeweled Vessel - the good field of increased happiness.
Many polities in what is called Ixachitlān Mictlāmpa have done very well for themselves. The Tsalagi, under a military theocracy, have taken a substantial part of the coastline and many of the great natural harbors in the region, while in the north, the Haudenosaunee and the Lenape are in competition for the northern straits and trade routes. In the furthest north, a great military and political alliance contemplates its next move.

10 - THE OTHER WORLD - THE CENTER
C(30) -The Demon of the Heavenly Son - If the fires of desire blaze, oneself is burnt.
The great Triple Alliance, having forcibly withdrawn from its European adventure centuries ago, faces turmoil at home. The nomadic Numunuu people strike across the rivers which once marked provincial borders, and the soldiers of the empire cling to their exclaves in the north. To the south, they face revolts from the Mayan city-states, organized around the princes of Kaan Peech, Tutul-Xiu, Cocom, and the K'iche'.

11 - THE OTHER WORLD - SOUTH
B(19) -The White Conch - thoughts renowned like a pleasing tune.
Tawantinsuyu, as it still calls itself, remains a regional hegemon. They have fought the mighty northern invaders to a standstill; contact with Malian explorers has spurred a flurry of interest among the country's military, religious, and political elites. It is readily apparent to all that the kingdom may approach a flourishing outgrowth of art, literature, science, and politics.

Kangxi fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Mar 24, 2020

Fivemarks
Feb 21, 2015
What next? Space rear end in a top hat Nazis send a cyborg back in time to help the Purgyals regain control of the world to crush meritocracy and implement a massive eugenics program on all of humanity?

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple
If you need any help with ideas about the Haudenosaunee or other NA tribes, I'd be happy to help. I'm a member of the Kanienkehaka (Mohawk) Nation and have been working on my own tribal overhaul mod so I have quite a bit of knowledge about the history of the area.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
I do apologize for the wait; you'd think we'd have had more free time with the current situation, but the truth is I haven't had nearly as much I'd like and more external pressure. But we're nearly done with the last few ideas and idea sets, and I promise you I can start regular or semi-regular posting before the end of the month.

HereticMIND
Nov 4, 2012

Kangxi posted:

I do apologize for the wait; you'd think we'd have had more free time with the current situation, but the truth is I haven't had nearly as much I'd like and more external pressure. But we're nearly done with the last few ideas and idea sets, and I promise you I can start regular or semi-regular posting before the end of the month.

No worries! You take care of yourself! We can wait.

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

Kangxi posted:

I do apologize for the wait; you'd think we'd have had more free time with the current situation, but the truth is I haven't had nearly as much I'd like and more external pressure. But we're nearly done with the last few ideas and idea sets, and I promise you I can start regular or semi-regular posting before the end of the month.

Don't worry! Take care of yourself first! We'll be here when you get back :)

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




The extra wait has given me time to start and catch up with everything, so I don't mind too much :)

Viola the Mad
Feb 13, 2010

Gravity Cant Apple posted:

If you need any help with ideas about the Haudenosaunee or other NA tribes, I'd be happy to help. I'm a member of the Kanienkehaka (Mohawk) Nation and have been working on my own tribal overhaul mod so I have quite a bit of knowledge about the history of the area.

I'd be down to hear more about this mod and/or any tidbits you'd care to share about NA history. :)

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
Chapter 58: 1444 to 1448 - Heirs Presumptive

From the personal correspondence of Lady Töregene. A distant relative of the Otgonbayar clan and a close friend of the favorite consort of the Emperor Timur II, she lived in Lhasa for decades and often served as an informal intermediary between the Timurid Empire and the Tibetan Empire. Her correspondence, which was often presented with frequent historical allusions, is a valuable source for the courtly life in Lhasa in the mid-15th century.



To the private secretary of His Majesty Timur II, the Imperial Son-In-Law of the Purgyals and Son of the Borijins:


Lhasa is the capital of an empire that has fallen but never burned. A traveler, upon entering it, has the sense of a great empire, but only slightly fallen into decay; some monuments are neglected, others are worn from the years of harsh winds and the circular stamping of pilgrims, and still, others are completely undone - the base of a pyramid, never finished after the death of the Empress Lasya, squats outside of the city.

I, a foreigner in this city, speak often with the other foreigners and we are hospitable to each other. The Chinese visitors are quick to debate the causes of the empire's sudden weakness; they speak of the cyclical nature of dynasties and that the Purgyals have lost its divine backing from Lasya's violent and irresponsible rule and neglecting its duty to the people, and that natural disasters had signified the need for a new dynasty to restore order. I demurred, wondering what divinity would let this ruler rampage for so long before bringing the empire to a halt. Instead, I offered an argument that I had read in Ibn Khaldun, who advised our emperor's great ancestor Timur - the Tibetan elite and aristocracy were strong militarily due to their upbringing in the hostile environment of the Tibetan Plateau, and they held together for centuries first through a religious authority, and then through the promise of spoils in pillaging the south. This upbringing, I should add, is a course for the success of the dynasty of Timur in their conquests. But by contrast, Lasya, in her violent conquests, had exhausted most of the loyal aristocracy, and her crackdown on spoils meant that the surviving aristocracy felt no need to stay with the government in Lhasa. Furthermore, the Purgyal dynasty had grown so vast that each branch had its own claims for rulership and that they would continue to fight for land and treasure.


Without this social cohesion, the empire disintegrated into dozens of component parts, with many of the city-states now ignoring the authority in Lhasa, and still others flaunting the authority of the one institution that survived - the Sacred Hierarchy.


This dissolution did not bring total poverty or ruin - yet - and these lands are still among the most prosperous on earth, and the skills and techniques of the ordinary people, skilled tradespeople, and merchants in transporting these goods, all add value in what they produce.


The Empress Yondagmo, an illegitimate niece of Lasya the Evil, has reigned for almost 30 years. It is due to her considerable ability that the empire has not disintegrated entirely, and her judicious rulership has restored a degree of order to the Tibetan Plateau itself, as well as part of the lower Ganges. Illegitimate children, it is often said, have no need to imitate their mothers or fathers; Yondagmo has avowed there is nothing of Lasya in her. Though the rumors persist.


However, it must be said that she is not so discreet with her indulgences. A less competent ruler would be called decadent.





Many of the vassal princes are independent in their decisions in foreign policy and in forming alliances - yet three are still under her direct control. Nepal, still ruled by another branch of the Purgyals, Kamarupa, held by a loyal duke she had enfeoffed, and Kashmir, held by a Mongol-Tibetan dynasty.


Her court is well-advised and staffed - mostly by Tibetans near Lhasa, but with an occasional Tibetan from Kham, Guge, or a Mongolian.


The extent of her ambitions was practical; one would assume she had moved from preventing any further losses to acquiring new lands and improving those already held.


But that was not the case. In the last days of 1444, she set the general Pude Sadnalegs in charge of an army of nearly 15,000 troops and ordered him to invade the tribal chiefdom of Manipur.


She prepared an alliance with one of the greatest of the southern states, the Purgyals of Rajputana.


And from then on, perhaps it could be said this marks the beginning of a more active - and potentially more dangerous time. As an empire's capabilities grow, its neighbors will take even the most modest or inconspicuous of its actions to be a threat.


The armies marched east, to cut off the enemy forces near the lands of the Nagas.


Not the brilliant victory of decades past, but it was a victory. The siege of Manipur started soon after.


Around this time, I had found a new source of information, the Empress' new consort, Löntsen.


I would prefer to think my abilities at finding information and secrets are well-practiced, but this young man had no problems revealing his innermost secrets to the world.


From there, I learned that the Empress was lavishing gifts on the vassal kings of Kamarupa,


And in advance of the death of the Sacred Hierarch, Tsen II, well before the mourning was announced.

In the last days of September, around the conclusion of the siege of Manipur, I found the young man crying, inconsolably. I asked him what was the matter, even near the end of the first successful military campaign Tibet had in years, and he confessed to me - the old empress was dead.


Her daughter, the rather severe Kyi, would soon ascend the throne, and claim rights and privileges over the rest of the empire. From that point, it looked as if the rather haphazard arrangement established by Yondamgo might continue, at least for some time.


The invasion was concluded, and Tibet now saw itself in possession of vital mountain passes between the Arakan Mountains, and the Naga Hills.


With the death of the old guard, we to Tibet's west...


As well as Later Jin in the east began to observe Tibet and see what measures it would take, and what conspiracies it might resume.


The empress concluded a strategic marriage with a distant branch of the family for reasons of diplomacy and alliance...


Yet the problem remained that she was a 54-year-old woman with no children.


Her first projects were clearing up Lhasa - tearing down old houses and allowing farmers to grow barley; fixing the roofs of temples that had fallen in. No money for Lasya's pyramid, of course.


But the empire to her south soon slipped into violence and fighting for land. In particular, the lord of the Malwa plateau - still another Purgyal - Ngawang I, cruel, prone to petty control and insults - invaded and conquered the city of Baroda by the summer of 1446.


The Empress Kyi had ordered them to return the territory they had invaded, and Ngawang of Malwa refused. The agreement meant nothing to him.



So it was war.


The Tibetans had marched an army of almost 20,000 down to Malwa itself, and met little resistance,


As Malwa, and its allies in the city of Surat invaded the Tibetan ally of Kashmir. They did not, or could not, risk the climb up to Ladakh, so they instead pillaged the Kashmiri countryside.


Tibetan reinforcements had arrived from the east, but by then it was too late.


The two-sided war continued, with Tibet taking every town in Malwa,


And an army sent to push back an advance guard force was quickly overrun and surrounded. It was an uncommon mistake; and one which does not presage well for Tibetan abilities.


Yet the lands were still prosperous, Tibet can afford to make some mistakes.


But as the last cities fell and Tibet was able to marshal all of its armies towards Kashmir to relieve its ally and prevent any invasions into the Tibetan plateau.


But by then, the empress and her generals noted how illusory much of the empire's authority was; how so many still retained their faiths and customs, and how the authority of the Sacred Hierarchy was discarded. She had no tolerance for such behaviors and ordered the correct gods to be worshipped in the right order instead of integrating them into the local pantheon.


At Kangra, the Tibetans forced a rebel surrender.


So the primacy of the old empress was maintained; at an excessive cost, and one that did not presage well for if a more powerful or competent vassal rebelled, such as Tamilakam or Rajputana.


My assistant, Khalid, a patient and perceptive young man, who had been visiting friends in Kamarupa, noted that the Empress was negotiating with the vassal duke of Kamarupa, and making vast claims over the land which had been once the personal possessions of the empress.


After a short series of negotiations, and indeed persuaded by the claims of the Empress over the safety of vassals in another war, the Empress assumed direct control over the land held by the Glo duchy, and some distant king well before that. With that, Tibet controls a valuable mountain pass north of the Naga Hills and up to the Hengduan mountains. I do not think such a move can happen so swiftly again, not at least for another decade, as Kamarupa was unique in its proximity to Lhasa, the history of Purgyal claims upon it, and its vulnerability.


This diplomatic coup had insulted and shocked the other constituents of the Sacred Tibetan Empire, as they did not wish to be reminded of their own vulnerability. They conspired to form their own alliances against the old hegemon, even as the treasure made a great boon for the nobility in Lhasa.


I am tempted to suggest that the Emperors of Tibet still retain their old ambitions of expansion and conquest, even if they do not possess the same riches and armies as they once had. It would likely be to the east in some capacity or further south.

I write to you in full honesty, and if I have made some errors in these evaluations of Tibet, they are mine and mine alone.

With infinite respect and gratitude:
Lady Töregene, in Lhasa


The World's Great Powers: 1448

Kangxi fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Apr 13, 2020

Pacho
Jun 9, 2010
Yess. It has begun

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.
Hell yeah.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN
Woohoo!!

Viola the Mad
Feb 13, 2010
It's...it's beautiful. :allears:

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

Lady Töregene, in Lhasa posted:



Her first projects were clearing up Lhasa - tearing down old houses and allowing farmers to grow barley; fixing the roofs of temples that had fallen in. No money for Lasya's pyramid, of course.


Whyever not? How better than to show the might of the revitalized Empire than by completing the Great and Holy Lasya's pyramid? We may fill the peasant's belly with bread all we want, but if we do not feed their spirit how can we expect them to conquer all of those who looked on our downfall with glee?

Lady Töregene, in Lhasa posted:



[B]y then, the empress and her generals noted how illusory much of the empire's authority was; how so many still retained their faiths and customs, and how the authority of the Sacred Hierarchy was discarded. She had no tolerance for such behaviors and ordered the correct gods to be worshipped in the right order instead of integrating them into the local pantheon.

Quite right. None of this worship of the Archdemoness Tse the Twice Born. It's absurd that such superstitions last to this day and age.

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple

Viola the Mad posted:

I'd be down to hear more about this mod and/or any tidbits you'd care to share about NA history. :)

Sorry for not responding sooner. As to not derail Kangxi's thread, I'll link to the post I just made in the EUIV thread.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3840754&pagenumber=269#post504106225

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
Chapter 58: 1448 to 1462 - Cardinal Directions

Selections from the diary of Zhang Dorje, an official within the Sacred Hierarchy. His extensive tenure carried him from Lhasa as a student to the external provinces and then back to Lhasa.


1448
A good deal of activity around the Potala Palace. Her Majesty the Empress has sent out multiple delegations out to the provinces, which have been sent off with great fanfare. Doubtless to shore up her position with the southern kings and to assure them of her intentions.


Saw some of the army drills near the palace - a sorry lot. They couldn't even hold their pikes straight and the officer was yelling her head off at them to no effect. I hope they were ceremonial or not at least veterans of the last war. May the gods help us!


I spoke with a clerk, S, in the Ministry of Works today over butter tea and bread - a series of fortifications is to be built near Sadiya, on the Patkai hills, to guard the Pangsau mountain pass, with the reason being to prevent further incursions by Buddhists. Construction will begin as soon as astrologers have determined the appropriate date and will consecrate the site.

I do admit freely that one of the reasons I joined the church was a fascination with ritual and pomp; seeing the priests in their uniforms, moving as precisely as dancers, was what first drew my attention. This was well before I'd developed knowledge of ritual law and appreciation for natural behavior.


In the evening, I attended a recitation of the deeds and life of Her Majesty the Departed Empress Yondagmo. Her reputation has only risen in the years since her death - when I speak to the people in Lhasa, they say many things about her wise leadership and ability to serve in the time of great difficulties.

They do not say anything about Lasya.


1449
Received word that Her Majesty had signed a kind of agreement with the Purgyals in Andhra. I am deeply reassured by the news of allies and friends.


The Empress also agreed to marry a distant cousin off to the Andhra-Purgyals to avoid land passing out of the family.


The monastic heads near Bhagalpur have also been sent to the head of the Sacred Hierarchy in Markam. They had brought many bolts of silk and shawls as gifts for the upper leadership.


June 1449
Attended the imperial wedding ceremony today. A magnificent occasion! The Empress herself, wishing to cultivate further alliances, married the oldest son of a major noble family near Lhasa. Khjyunpo Gyal was a striking figure, perhaps divinely blessed in countenance, and he wears the silk and costume of his seat handsomely. I understand immediately one of the reasons why he specifically was chosen.

Also welcome was the news that the Empress' younger sister, Her Majesty Princess Dechen, has given birth to a daughter. The family line in Lhasa continues.


The positive mood of the inhabitants of the palace and their attendants did not last. A servant has told me that evening, after I pressed them, that the new Prince-Consort has been indiscreet in his use of funds and his taking of bribes beyond any acceptable amount. All rumors, but I have a hunch that this one is not lying. This will put him at odds with Her Majesty the Empress, who is known to pay strict attention to the account books.

When I pray tonight, I will ask for the gods for generosity in their blessings.


I saw fewer members of the nobility that I had come to expect from reading the old histories; so the priesthood was drafted to fill the seats. A handful of the heads of the wealthier trading guilds had filled out the seats in the back, in addition to the distant cheering crowds behind.


Her Majesty the Empress has been attentive to the needs of the laypeople, and she is often seen reading petitions. She has ordered the construction of new buildings to replace some ruins in the port of Chittagong, to great rejoicing.


1450
I, of all people, have been ordered to go to Andhra. At least, general Dringma has, and she's brought me along with her staff. There has been a rather violent dispute between one of our priests and the locals over some sacrilege she has inadvertently committed; this after my colleague had to deliver some news to M. in Shigatse. He was always a bit impulsive...


It seems the locals have sacked some temples along the coast, near the islands of Konaseema. I do wish I'd paid more attention to these lessons in school, which of the gods do they place at the top, what ethical traditions do they follow. I feel great anxiety as I pack my things and make ready for the journey down. It will be months. There may be some turmoil there, but I haven't seen as much of it in Lhasa apart from a few thieves in the night. What to do...


June 1450
We gave them hell. The fools tried a pitched battle on an open field, as disorganized as they were, and it was still a close-run thing.

August 1450

I hear other news about the hill tribes incorporated into Tibet near the eastern mountains from my friend L., and I am feeling better. I needed these letters from home.


I am now engaged in the long business of talking to the locals and seeing what else can be done. They had many complaints about the Purgyals in Andhara, the taxation, the church, and so on. But they were only kind and worshipful about the empress. "Why?" I asked. A local merchant answered: "Well if she knew all this was happening, she'd put a stop to it!" I agreed. But later, when I went out to a market stall, A local farmer took me aside and said that this Lasya must have been a great emperor, to have killed so many local tyrants. I said nothing, perhaps too amazed to speak.

April 1451

A massive bundle of letters, showing how much I missed. The old Sacred Hierarch is deceased. I don't even recognize the new candidate.


The Jin have launched a punitive expedition against the Manchus - not necessarily for their 'barbarian' habits and cultures, but also arising from a difference in the lineages of their Buddhism - the Jin emperor is apparently upset that the Manchus have begun the practice of more esoteric and dangerous magical practices without proper supervision. At least, that is one of the reasons given.


To the far west, the Timurids are heading south to the cities along the coast of the Red Sea. The Pashtun tribes and nobles are caught up in some other interminable mess.


But home - at least I hear more good news from home. More marketplaces spring up along the Ganges delta, the harvests are more plentiful.


M, who is now in the army, reports the officers are better trained, and some kind of training is resuming - I'd hope that is a little better than the masses of conscripts thrown together after the first collapse.


More diplomats and messengers go to and fro.


1453
Surprising news from all quarters. The Jin have won decisive victories against the horse lords in the north and demanded the cession of some of their most fertile lands.


While the empress is in the process of rebuilding and restoring vacant temples,


I see more noble families fleeing Lhasa and heading south. I had the chance to talk with the son of R., who said there were no opportunities for advancement in high office or profit or glory from conquest. It would be better if he headed south, he said. I made a brief and flagging effort to make him consider the priesthood, but he was due to inherit land anyway and didn't intend to give it up.


My mood was darkened after hearing about the Jerusalem Raj. The church's holdings along the two great rivers, as distant as they were, seem to be crumbling apart at the foundations. Baghdad has fallen to the Buddhists.


What remains of the one great western holdings is a cluster of towns in the mountains. Timur II and his son, Timur III, are active in their campaigns across the Red Sea, but they are independently minded and their opinions and plans cannot be immediately divined.


But Tibet, it seems, has at least recovered a measure of internal stability. In my offices in the Hierarchy, I have heard that the Empress has secured the prince-electors support for her daughter, ensuring the continuity of rule from Lhasa.


But still, the world moves around us without our knowledge or our deciding. To our north, the khan has quietly declared they are incapable of paying off their debts, and they are selling off or ceding land and horses.


To the east, there are some peasant rebellions in the Jin, but they seem like nothing too extraordinary. Given a few months' time, they will likely be suppressed.


Same for the successor states in the south. More rebels. Some peasants, some upset about the perceived overreach of the church.


August 1453
Great catastrophe in the south. Series of cyclones that have completely ruined towns. I've been sent over there to organize food and materials deliveries from our stores.

We are in no way masters of the earth, of every invisible creature and unknowable force...


And it infuriates me to hear of corruption and negligence at the very top. I pray for the Empress to have a long and prosperous life, so that that man does not ruin us all.


A system of loans and repayments is already established for rebuilding. Every day I am either shocked or horrified, or I am amazed at the ingenuity and charity of those who work to rebuild.


February 1456
The empress has ascended to the afterlife. The family line of the Lhasa-Purgyals would pass to her niece, whereas her husband, the Prince-Consort, would rule until she reached a sufficient age to make decisions on her own.


The prince-consort-regent(?) has brought in new people - I have some cause for optimism for their abilities at least from having spoken to them briefly.


And the late empress' nieces and nephews are forming new alliances.


1458
My optimism was misplaced. Forcing the merchants to sell food at lower prices would have hurt them, or repurchasing and redistributing them would also have been expensive, but I, no great mathematician, could have told you there was simply not enough food after all those rice paddies were destroyed. Now the peasants are revolting, tearing apart the local offices, and hanging the nobles from the watchtowers.


The army at this time was so caught by surprise, that the peasants were able to force a retreat.


Not just in Bengal, but in the lands of Sikkim and the Punakha district, which reacted badly to panic buying.

They are sending the army in with pikes and sword.


Everywhere.


I'm heading south myself to help clean this up. It's my responsibility. I have to do something about all this.


August 1459

It would seem that I have been offered a position in Her Majesty the Empress' court, at the behest of the Prince-Regent. He has tried to flatter me by saying that I could teach many things to our great Empress.

I accepted, after a few seconds' thought.


I have no skill with the army, or in making troops fight,


Nor in the intricacies of trade and production.


But it would seem I can help in talking to people and organizing them, and that is what I will do. At least, I can do act in such a way to improve the standing of the Hierarchy itself - and how it provided refuge for me once, who was once a lonesome child and adored the stories of the two founding mothers of Tibet.


We must be further organized and ready for what trials we may face...


And to make ourselves ready for the wonders and questions the world beyond may bring.

Kangxi fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Apr 20, 2020

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
First Session of the All-Imperial Kashag of the Sacred Tibetan Empire

The Sacred Tibetan Empire, as designed by the late Yondagmo I in a series of negotiations with the vassal kings and the Sacred Hierarchy, contained a deliberative and consultative body for discussing major affairs. While the collective decisions of the empire's constituent parts did not necessarily have any legal binding, they nevertheless held a considerable degree of influence in appointing officials, and district commissioners, and in cases where the emperor was weak -- that is to say, right now -- the Kashag held more influence than originally intended.



Hello! As you may have noticed, the thread has had more interactive voting options when the authority of the emperor was weak or their powers were limited, and this seems like the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the opportunity for the thread to make decisions.

But let's keep this simple now.


Please vote for one of the following options, as an option for where the empire should focus its efforts for reform:


Please bold your voting option so I can count it.

Kangxi fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Apr 16, 2020

Soup du Jour
Sep 8, 2011

I always knew I'd die with a headache.

Economic

It is only with gold that the Empire can be restored to its rightful glory!

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Diplomatic

We must maintain control of the Holy Tibetan Empire and that requires appeasing its many subjects.

Eleven Eleven
Nov 12, 2016

Nay, it is the Quality of our arms and the soldiers that carry them that shall return our past glory.

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

The sorry state of Tibet's army requires rejuvenated leadership! Aristocratic!

idhrendur
Aug 20, 2016

Aristocratic!

TheFlyingLlama
Jan 2, 2013

You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and be a llama?



Innovative

Mirdini
Jan 14, 2012

Innovative - wherever this so-called Renaissance appeared, we cannot let its originators outpace us in the investigation of progress and the future. If Tibet is to rise again, we must seize the day, every day!

Technowolf
Nov 4, 2009




Innovative

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?


Innovative

The times they are a'changing...

megane
Jun 20, 2008



Aristocratic!

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.
I'll put my vote towards whoever agrees to back the building of Lasya's pyramid.

zanni
Apr 28, 2018

Diplomatic

Diplomacy is the key to controlling our hold on the Empire!

plaintiff
May 15, 2015

Innovative

We must seize the future, no matter which way it comes.

Albino Squirrel
Apr 25, 2003

Miosis more like meiosis
Expansion. This is no time for retrenchment!

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Coward
Sep 10, 2009

I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure



.
Religious! Defend us from Buddhists that lurk everywhere.

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