Elon Musk: bad at cars, bad at tunnels, good at ruining astronomy

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Elon Musk: bad at cars, bad at tunnels, good at ruining astronomy

«‹›7 »

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/science/starlink-spacex-astronomers.html

quote:

Last month, SpaceX successfully launched 60 500-pound satellites into space. Soon amateur skywatchers started sharing images of those satellites in night skies, igniting an uproar among astronomers who fear that the planned orbiting cluster will wreak havoc on scientific research and trash our view of the cosmos.

The main issue is that those 60 satellites are merely a drop in the bucket. SpaceX anticipates launching thousands of satellites � creating a mega-constellation of false stars collectively called Starlink that will connect the entire planet to the internet, and introduce a new line of business for the private spaceflight company.

While astronomers agree that global internet service is a worthy goal, the satellites are bright � too bright.

�This has the potential to change what a natural sky looks like,� said Tyler Nordgren, an astronomer who is now working full-time to promote night skies.

And SpaceX is not alone. Other companies, such as Amazon, Telesat and OneWeb, want to get into the space internet business. Their ambitions to make satellites nearly as plentiful as cellphone towers highlight conflicting debates as old as the space age about the proper use of the final frontier.

While private companies see major business opportunities in low-Earth orbit and beyond, many skygazers fear that space will no longer be �the province of all mankind,� as stated in the Outer Space Treaty of 1967.

The Starlink launch was one of SpaceX�s most ambitious missions to orbit.

Each of the satellites carries a solar panel that not only gathers sunlight but also reflects it back to Earth. Elon Musk, SpaceX�s founder and chief executive, has offered assurances that the satellites will only be visible in the hours after sunset and before sunrise, and then just barely.

But the early images led many scientists to question his assertions.

The first captured images, for example, revealed a train of spacecraft as bright as Polaris, the North Star. And while a press officer at SpaceX said the satellites will grow fainter as they move to higher orbits, some astronomers estimate that they will be visible to the naked eye throughout summer nights.

The satellites can even �flare,� briefly boosting their brightness to rival that of Sirius, the brightest star in the sky, when their solar panels are oriented just right.

Astronomers fear that these reflections will threaten stargazing and their research.

@Alex_Parker
For no reason at all, here's what it looks like when a satellite goes through Hubble's field of view whilst you are trying to image something in the distant solar system.

Whenever a satellite passes through a long-exposure picture of the sky, it causes a long bright streak � typically ruining the image and forcing astronomers to take another one. While telescope operators have dealt with these headaches for years, Starlink alone could triple the number of satellites currently in orbit, with the number growing larger if other companies get to space.

One estimate suggests that the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope � an 8.4-meter telescope under construction on a Chilean mountaintop that will soon scan the entire sky � might have to deal with one Starlink satellite in every couple of images it takes during the first few hours of twilight.

And astronomers don�t yet know how they will adjust. �We�re really at that point where we have to assess what we�re going to do,� said Ronald Drimmel, an astronomer at the Turin Astrophysical Observatory in Italy.

Not only do these satellites reflect light, they also emit radio frequencies � which a number of astronomers find troubling. Dishes used in radio astronomy are often built in remote locations far from cell towers and radio stations. But if Starlink is launched in full � with the ability to beam reception toward any location on the planet � those so-called radio quiet zones might become a thing of the past.

Moreover, some are worried that Starlink plans to operate on two frequency ranges that astronomers use to map the gas throughout the universe � allowing them to see how planets as large as Jupiter assemble, and how galaxies formed immediately after the Big Bang.

�If those frequency channels become inaccessible, it�s extremely limiting to what we can learn about the early universe,� said Caitlin Casey, an astronomer at the University of Texas at Austin.

Similar concerns emerged in the 1990s when Iridium launched dozens of satellites � which made their own flashes in night skies � to provide global satellite phone coverage. The Iridium constellation�s impact was ultimately minimal as technologies changed, and because it never grew larger than 66 satellites. The most reflective of its satellites are now gradually falling from orbit.

The National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a federally funded research center that operates facilities across the world, said on Friday in a statement that it has been working directly with SpaceX to minimize potential impacts. The group is discussing what it called exclusion zones around some radio astronomy facilities, where SpaceX�s satellites would power down when traveling overhead.

Dr. Casey worries that this could still restrict where radio astronomers can work.

This week on Twitter, Mr. Musk said that Starlink will avoid using one of those two frequency ranges. But Dr. Casey said it�s possible that the adjacent frequencies the satellites will use might spill into areas astronomers study � even if they�re technically blocked.

Despite the outcry, Dr. Drimmel said he wasn�t calling for Starlink to be brought to a halt.

�I don�t presume that astronomy should be held more important than everything else,� he said. �So there may be some give and take, and compromises that need to be made.�

But he does worry about the irrevocable impact on human culture should internet satellites forever alter the face of the night sky.

�What I find astounding is that whatever we do will affect everyone on the planet,� Dr. Drimmel said.

Alex Parker, a planetary astronomer at the Southwest Research Institute, noted on Twitter that if nearly 12,000 of these satellites orbit, they could soon outnumber all of the stars visible to the naked eye. And even if just 500 are observable at any given time, Dr. Drimmel warns that it will be difficult to pick out constellations among those moving lights.

�It sounds dystopian,� Dr. Casey said.

Most of the frustration stems from the fact that discussions about the impact of this project did not take place before launch. And it may only be the beginning.

�It truly is the tip of the iceberg, especially as we get into a world where you have multibillionaires with the ability and the desire to do things like this,� Dr. Nordgren said.

So astronomers are hopeful that today�s conversation might shape the future. �I think it�s good that we�re making noise about this problem,� Dr. Drimmel said. �If we�re not aware of the threat, so to speak, this will all happen as planned and then it will be too late.�

Already, Mr. Musk has asked SpaceX to work on lowering future satellites� brightness.

And other companies seem to be taking note. A press officer at Amazon said that it will be years before Project Kuiper � the company�s plan to place more than 3,000 internet satellites into orbit � is available. But Amazon will assess space safety and concerns about light pollution as they design their satellites, the press officer said.

Another entrant, Telesat, said its smaller constellation would operate at higher orbits than some companies� satellites, making their satellites fainter.

Mr. Musk also upset some astronomers when he said on Twitter that Starlink was for the �greater good.�

The night sky has the power to make people feel awe, he said.

�A star-filled night sky reminds us that we are part of a much larger whole, that we are one person in a world of people surrounded by the vast depths of the visible universe,� Dr. Nordgren said.

While they may see Starlink�s goal as worthy, scientists question whether it is truly the greater good.

�I�m sure there will be positive impact in terms of bringing the internet to the world, but just blatantly saying as one person or one company that this takes precedence over our knowledge of our own universe is scary,� Dr. Casey said.

Ultimately, many agree that the risks are far too great for this decision to be made by one company. And Dr. Casey is hopeful that SpaceX will take a cooperative approach with major astronomy organizations.

�The idea that one or two people somewhere in some country in some boardroom can make the decision that the constellations hereafter will suddenly be fluid, and move from night to night and hour to hour � well, I don�t think that�s their decision to make,� Dr. Nordgren said.

Don't worry everyone, Elon has assured us that the satellites will only be visible during the hours between sunset and sunrise

# ? Jun 1, 2019 21:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 19, 2024 14:55

Big Beef City: Aug 15, 2013

"I want Dyson Spheres and Moon Bases and Self Replicating Androids and FTL travel and vacations on Mars NOW!", Goons.

Also Goons: "Mother there's too much faintly blinking light in the sky"

# ? Jun 1, 2019 21:57

Gaunab: Feb 13, 2012; LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL

Internet nerds think Elon Musk is a real life Tony Stark instead of a rich guy who throws his money around.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:02

Sophy Wackles: Dec 17, 2000; > access main security grid
access: PERMISSION DENIED.

Here's a good article on all the space satellites and junk in orbit:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06170-1

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:06

WatermelonGun: May 7, 2009

reliable internet all over the planet would be cool but this is more musk meister trying to get corporations and governments to pay him to blast his rockets off and i�m sure there are no sinister reasons those two entities would want to blanket the sky with satellites

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:23

Trumps Baby Hands: Mar 27, 2016; Silent white light filled the world. And the righteous and unrighteous alike were consumed in that holy fire.

Pawn 17 posted:

Here's a good article on all the space satellites and junk in orbit:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06170-1

Can�t wait for a Gravity type situation to gently caress up everything in orbit and plunge the world into darkness

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:23

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

Pawn 17 posted:

Here's a good article on all the space satellites and junk in orbit:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06170-1

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1130060332200747008

Checkmate. :v:

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:25

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

remember that time that Elon musk's company decapitated someone?

No wait, that happened three times

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:27

poverty goat: Feb 15, 2004

It's sad that iridium flares are going away imo

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:28

Ritznit: Dec 19, 2012; I'm crackers for cheese.; Ultra Carp

What would have to happen for Redditors to stop sucking Elon's dick?

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:30

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

also remember the time Elon's company was 75% of all work place accidents in the auto industry

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:31

Ritznit: Dec 19, 2012; I'm crackers for cheese.; Ultra Carp

Remember that being better at something than Elon means he will call you a pedophile.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:32

Three Olives: Apr 10, 2005; What if Hitler invented the BMW i3 Subcompact Electric car?

We spend way too much time and money trying to figure out how people in lovely rural "towns" can get broadband internet instead of telling them to just loving move to a city if you want 4K HDR pornography.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:33

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

Ritznit posted:

Remember that being better at something than Elon means he will call you a pedophile.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:34

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Big Beef City posted:

"I want Dyson Spheres and Moon Bases and Self Replicating Androids and FTL travel and vacations on Mars NOW!", Goons.

Also Goons: "Mother there's too much faintly blinking light in the sky"

shut the gently caress up

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:34

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

Three Olives posted:

We spend way too much time and money trying to figure out how people in lovely rural "towns" can get broadband internet instead of telling them to just loving move to a city if you want 4K HDR pornography.

those people don't deserve things like water

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:35

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

shut the gently caress up

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:36

WatermelonGun: May 7, 2009

Big Beef City posted:

"I want Dyson Spheres and Moon Bases and Self Replicating Androids and FTL travel and vacations on Mars NOW!", Goons.

Also Goons: "Mother there's too much faintly blinking light in the sky"

Three Olives posted:

We spend way too much time and money trying to figure out how people in lovely rural "towns" can get broadband internet instead of telling them to just loving move to a city if you want 4K HDR pornography.

look at these two morons lol

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:36

Ritznit: Dec 19, 2012; I'm crackers for cheese.; Ultra Carp

If you don't have Three Olives on Ignore I don't know what to tell you.

But I will not call you a pedophile, so I'm at least not as much of a pile of dung as Elon Musk.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:37

Brute Hole Force: Dec 25, 2005; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Ritznit posted:

What would have to happen for Redditors to stop sucking Elon's dick?

Calling a rescue worker an ephebophile as an insult would probably work.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:40

Trumps Baby Hands: Mar 27, 2016; Silent white light filled the world. And the righteous and unrighteous alike were consumed in that holy fire.

Ritznit posted:

Remember that being better at something than Elon means he will call you a pedophile.

Ritznit posted:

What would have to happen for Redditors to stop sucking Elon's dick?

Elon: �Theres no difference between an �ephebophile� and a pedophile.�

Edit: goddamnit

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:41

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

Ritznit posted:

If you don't have Three Olives on Ignore I don't know what to tell you.

But I will not call you a pedophile, so I'm at least not as much of a pile of dung as Elon Musk.

You shouldn't have anyone on ignore.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:42

QuarkJets: Sep 8, 2008

Mumpy Puffinz posted:

You shouldn't have anyone on ignore.

Seriously, what kind of whiny pissbaby actually uses the ignore list

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:47

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

QuarkJets posted:

Seriously, what kind of whiny pissbaby actually uses the ignore list

for real. it's real easy to just scroll past it

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:52

Rod Hoofhearted: Jun 18, 2000; I am a ghost

Ritznit posted:

What would have to happen for Redditors to stop sucking Elon's dick?

He'd have to back unions, and support higher marginal tax rates on the super-rich.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:54

Kuato: Feb 25, 2005; "I CAN'T BELIEVE I ATE THE WHOLE THING"; Buglord

Lol if you don�t automatically ignore all other posters and just post w/o reading thread or title

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:54

Mumpy Puffinz: Aug 11, 2008; Nap Ghost

LabyaMynora posted:

He'd have to back unions, and support higher marginal tax rates on the super-rich.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:56

WatermelonGun: May 7, 2009

Kuato posted:

Lol if you don�t automatically ignore all other posters and just post w/o reading thread or title

then how would you know to post this. you are a LIAR and a CHEAT kuato

# ? Jun 1, 2019 22:57

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

Ritznit posted:

What would have to happen for Redditors to stop sucking Elon's dick?

If he lost all his money

# ? Jun 1, 2019 23:00

Brother Tadger: Feb 15, 2012; I'm accidentally a suicide bomber!

Looking forward to being crushed by one of these satellites when it falls from orbit.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 23:02

Skeleton Ape: Dec 21, 2008

Whenever I see a 3 olives post I go OH poo poo and quickly cover my eyes and plug my ears and scroll past while going lalalalalalala

I just can't handle it

# ? Jun 1, 2019 23:02

Cephalectomy: Jun 8, 2007

Wouldn't having that much poo poo in orbit make it dangerous to launch more stuff into space???

# ? Jun 1, 2019 23:03

Rod Hoofhearted: Jun 18, 2000; I am a ghost

Milo and POTUS posted:

If he lost all his money

Or if he used his wealth to back practical, incremental solutions to global problems that actually worked instead of impulsively "disrupting" poo poo and failing.

I can't wait until the first person dies in a fire in his stupid car tunnel. At least it will probably be a rich tech bro.

# ? Jun 1, 2019 23:04