Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




She's involved in some way, but I don't think it's very heavily.

Yes, it definitely is still scary. But it's also a lot more...bombastic? Like the last episode - the mouth rings was just entirely over-the-top, because it just plain doesn't make sense. The fact that June is pretty much openly berating and arguing with Serena. Commander Lawrence and his godawful "is he good or is he bad" thing.

It just feels like it's slowly turning into a pretty generic Hunger Games-style "fight the dystopian power" show as opposed to what the original novel and first season were. As much as I love post-apocalyptic world-building and such, that's not really what this show is supposed to be about.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

I said come in!
Jun 22, 2004



Miranda posted:

I don’t get the hate. I love this show. I started watching it just after I had my daughter and Trump was elected. It scared the shitballs out of me and still does.

The first two seasons are great, but the ending of season 2 was a glimpse at things to come with regards to the massive drop in quality and season 3 so far has been really bad.

Normy
Jul 1, 2004

Do I Krushchev?




I definitely think the characters have become far too casual with one another compared to the first season but I'm still into it.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005



So is the chief executive of Gilead gay(/bi)? I may be reading into it, but a) I think we and Fred are supposed to be left to read into it at this point, and b) of course I am since this is a direction I want it to go. (I also love the idea that Lawrence and all the other top commanders already know, but mainly as a joke, not a theory I actually hold.)

Also, I could have sworn I read somewhere the creator and showrunner was aiming for 10 (10!) seasons, but not indefinite run. I still think that's way too long for this, but it's definite so you could build up to a planned conclusion.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



He wants to bang Fred, it wasn’t subtle

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy


Snow Cone Capone posted:

The hate is mostly because the main character is taking and getting away with some insane risks. June yelling at Serena in a public place like that would have been absolutely unthinkable in the first 2 seasons.

I'm okay with the loud discussions, it's like stage whisper.

My problem is that the plot is like an awful version of Groundhog Day. Everything is inconsequential and amounts to nothing after at most a few episodes. Lawrence, the alliance with Serena, the great revolt of the handmaids, bombing the commanders last season, all bullshit. At least Fred Waterford should have died in that. That in particular felt like that one early South Park episode (I know, I know) where the mayor shot herself in the head and then appeared with a bandage around it.

Fragmented
Oct 7, 2003

I'm not ready =(



If they keep making episodes like the last one i really don't care. That was a work of art.

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

I mean it had some excellent shots but I gotta agree with all the people itt who think the plot was terrible. The mouth ring thing is just fuckin stupid, and clearly only done for cheap shock value.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



Miranda posted:

I don’t get the hate. I love this show. I started watching it just after I had my daughter and Trump was elected. It scared the shitballs out of me and still does.

you are literally the audience they're writing for and continuing to get your viewership by reinforcing your unrealized fears. Because the thing Could happen, maybe, in some incredibly tiny fraction of a chance, and here's the video of what it would be like.

So of course you like it, man. And that's cool. I'm glad you have a show that you love.

But I want season 1 where rules were laid out and followed and actions had consequences. Not these stupid rear end internal monologues with June that should end with an 80's metal guitar riff. Her character isn't a vicious rebel. Her character is a survivalist. And the writers don't seem to know the difference as they once did. And that makes me sad.

Escobarbarian posted:

I mean it had some excellent shots but I gotta agree with all the people itt who think the plot was terrible. The mouth ring thing is just fuckin stupid, and clearly only done for cheap shock value.

it's also supposed to be a very ~smooth~ jive at how the current administration! silences! women! you see! because of the bullshit in my state and other states around me that will, hopefully, be utterly destroyed long before it's actually written into law (reproductive rights in the south east is stupid right now). And that's what I mean by a thin veneer. There's no reason, no rhyme. suddenly june's just in a dog muzzle for no reason. The "we treat handmaids with dignity! they're one of our most important things!" stuff that Gilead is supposed to be putting out there is totally ruined just so we get this "women!!!!" moment to suck up to me, the far left. But I'm here to watch a show. A once-great show that did have good messages that weren't so painfully blunt and punching you in the face that it ruined the rest of it and made characters break rules recklessly for no gain with no consequence and ruined the writing of the story itself.

I like it when shows represent my political arguments. I don't like it when that's all they become and they forget everything else that they once were. Boo.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003







Fluffy Bunnies posted:

you are literally the audience they're writing for and continuing to get your viewership by reinforcing your unrealized fears. Because the thing Could happen, maybe, in some incredibly tiny fraction of a chance, and here's the video of what it would be like.

So of course you like it, man. And that's cool. I'm glad you have a show that you love.

But I want season 1 where rules were laid out and followed and actions had consequences. Not these stupid rear end internal monologues with June that should end with an 80's metal guitar riff. Her character isn't a vicious rebel. Her character is a survivalist. And the writers don't seem to know the difference as they once did. And that makes me sad.


it's also supposed to be a very ~smooth~ jive at how the current administration! silences! women! you see! because of the bullshit in my state and other states around me that will, hopefully, be utterly destroyed long before it's actually written into law (reproductive rights in the south east is stupid right now). And that's what I mean by a thin veneer. There's no reason, no rhyme. suddenly june's just in a dog muzzle for no reason. The "we treat handmaids with dignity! they're one of our most important things!" stuff that Gilead is supposed to be putting out there is totally ruined just so we get this "women!!!!" moment to suck up to me, the far left. But I'm here to watch a show. A once-great show that did have good messages that weren't so painfully blunt and punching you in the face that it ruined the rest of it and made characters break rules recklessly for no gain with no consequence and ruined the writing of the story itself.

I like it when shows represent my political arguments. I don't like it when that's all they become and they forget everything else that they once were. Boo.

The staples are a bit much but there is very real religious history behind not allowing women to speak.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Fluffy Bunnies posted:

you are literally the audience they're writing for and continuing to get your viewership by reinforcing your unrealized fears. Because the thing Could happen, maybe, in some incredibly tiny fraction of a chance, and here's the video of what it would be like.

So of course you like it, man. And that's cool. I'm glad you have a show that you love.

But I want season 1 where rules were laid out and followed and actions had consequences. Not these stupid rear end internal monologues with June that should end with an 80's metal guitar riff. Her character isn't a vicious rebel. Her character is a survivalist. And the writers don't seem to know the difference as they once did. And that makes me sad.


it's also supposed to be a very ~smooth~ jive at how the current administration! silences! women! you see! because of the bullshit in my state and other states around me that will, hopefully, be utterly destroyed long before it's actually written into law (reproductive rights in the south east is stupid right now). And that's what I mean by a thin veneer. There's no reason, no rhyme. suddenly june's just in a dog muzzle for no reason. The "we treat handmaids with dignity! they're one of our most important things!" stuff that Gilead is supposed to be putting out there is totally ruined just so we get this "women!!!!" moment to suck up to me, the far left. But I'm here to watch a show. A once-great show that did have good messages that weren't so painfully blunt and punching you in the face that it ruined the rest of it and made characters break rules recklessly for no gain with no consequence and ruined the writing of the story itself.

I like it when shows represent my political arguments. I don't like it when that's all they become and they forget everything else that they once were. Boo.

post/av combo

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



socialsecurity posted:

The staples are a bit much but there is very real religious history behind not allowing women to speak.

Sure, within some of them, but I don't want them to use my politics as a sales point, I guess, is what I'm saying. If there were more to it than just that, I can deal with it. But now that's all it is.



I still love my av because it makes everyone think I'm an angry trump supporter and no, I'm over here in harris and bernie camp donating to poo poo to get kids out of cages :lol:

Dimebag
Jul 12, 2004


As soon as Meloni appeared on screen I let out an Audible Oh no. All I could think we don't need a Meloni Oz level evil rear end in a top hat on the show. Then again if he's evil and loving with Fred then eh that might be his just desserts.

Also the Swiss are totally leveraging this Nicole thing into selling arms to Gilead.

Looten Plunder
Jul 11, 2006


Grimey Drawer

The logic of this is so dumb. Gilead wants their PR machine to work wonders by appearing to be totally loving and friendly and respectful of woman and a really good trade partner/international friend.

And Canada are scared because Gilead has big guns and they don't want those guns pointed at them? gently caress off, Gilead aren't going to do poo poo. When it's The World vs Gilead, you really thing they are going to start something with Canada of all places? Over a child?

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:


Hell Gem

I really thought we were going to see Fred get sexually assaulted and I had extremely mixed feelings about that.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy


Looten Plunder posted:

The logic of this is so dumb. Gilead wants their PR machine to work wonders by appearing to be totally loving and friendly and respectful of woman and a really good trade partner/international friend.

And Canada are scared because Gilead has big guns and they don't want those guns pointed at them? gently caress off, Gilead aren't going to do poo poo. When it's The World vs Gilead, you really thing they are going to start something with Canada of all places? Over a child?

How would Canada even be an independent separate entity anymore (or not at least a satellite) if Gilead is supposedly so powerful? One of the first things totalitarian regimes is to colonize weaker neighbors, see Nazi Germany - Austria, Soviet Union - Poland, Japan - Korea etc. etc.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



screamin and creamin posted:

How would Canada even be an independent separate entity anymore (or not at least a satellite) if Gilead is supposedly so powerful? One of the first things totalitarian regimes is to colonize weaker neighbors, see Nazi Germany - Austria, Soviet Union - Poland, Japan - Korea etc. etc.

Gilead's power rises and falls with the convenience of the writers, now, and it blows.

Looten Plunder
Jul 11, 2006


Grimey Drawer

I always got the impression they were't strong at all. Kind of like a Soviet Russia or North Korea. They have poo poo technology, no food and a bunch of oppressed people but they have something key that everyone is scared of/wants (Nukes/Children).

A GIANT PARSNIP
Apr 13, 2010

Too much fuckin' eggnog




screamin and creamin posted:

How would Canada even be an independent separate entity anymore (or not at least a satellite) if Gilead is supposedly so powerful? One of the first things totalitarian regimes is to colonize weaker neighbors, see Nazi Germany - Austria, Soviet Union - Poland, Japan - Korea etc. etc.

A democratic Canada would likely find itself in an alliance with either the EU or with the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. On the other side Gilead may have inherited the US Military's toys, but things like the F-22 require a very demanding maintenance schedule and likely aren't functioning anymore, and we haven't seen proof of Gilead commanding anything more powerful than militias in SUV's.

Gilead is also still exerting control over the continental United States, and based on the maps posted in this thread there are large areas of rebel control along the border of Canada, the Pacific, and the Gulf of Mexico which are likely dumping grounds for foreign military volunteers and material.

My guess is Gilead's military consists mostly of the militia we see in SUV's with a few Abrams or Apaches in support, along with about 5,000 nuclear weapons pointed at the rest of the world.

wolfs
Jul 17, 2001

posted by squid gang



The radiation signs on that map before are places that have been nuked, right? So Gilead is a nuclear state that uses nukes and is run like North Korea.

X13Fen
Oct 18, 2006

"Is that an accurate quote? It should be.
I think about it often enough."


Dimebag posted:

As soon as Meloni appeared on screen I let out an Audible Oh no. All I could think we don't need a Meloni Oz level evil rear end in a top hat on the show. Then again if he's evil and loving with Fred then eh that might be his just desserts.

Also the Swiss are totally leveraging this Nicole thing into selling arms to Gilead.

See, I can't see Meloni as anything other than the pediatrician who likes dolls from Scrubs. Totally ruins any character he plays after that...

Also, y'all are forgetting the best part of the season so far: June's random ASMR message to Luke. I get why it happened in the plot, but going all-in on the ASMR just seemed... unnecessary

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

You should start to watch Happy! then, that'll mindfuck you some more when watching Meloni in serious roles afterwards.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Other than the nuclear threat idk why everyone is so scared of Gilead's military when they're fighting an insurgency/war on multiple home fronts. No matter how powerful they are on paper they're in no position to be going on the offensive against a foreign state. If they had the capacity to seriously threaten Canada, they'd be taking a much more aggressive diplomatic stance with them about the refugees and the fact that there is in an insurgency along almost the entirety of their mutual border, which is obviously being supplied via Canadian territory. If the Canadian government isn't actively supporting the rebels themselves, it is at the very least turning a blind eye to people using its territory to do so, and openly welcoming refugees and allowing them to share their stories with the world. It doesn't make sense for Canada to suddenly be so scared of Gilead over one baby.

That said, we're all analysing the details of a map that was on-screen for like one or two seconds on the show, and it's entirely possible that we're putting a lot more thought into it than they did themselves or intended us to.

I still like this show quite a lot, but I do think a lot of the criticisms have some validity, even if I find it kinda weird how much some people seem to hate it. It's nowhere near late-GoT level. It's still well acted, well shot, and... mostly well-written imo. The "June stares" scenes are definitely way overused. I think they were effective when the show was new, because you'd be processing a lot of how horrible Gilead is at the same time as her and watching her struggle with something awful that just happened, but after three seasons of constant use they lose their impact. I love most of the show's cinematography but it gets a bit self-indulgent sometimes, like that last lingering super-closeup of June's eye reflecting the giant cross felt really heavy-handed and "look how artsy we are! (so artsy)" and I'm even a fan of artsy shots for the sake of artsy shots. I do agree that the stapled lips thing also felt way over-the-top. It's just a whole different level of brutality. Like yeah they execute people and stuff but that's textbook stuff for an authoritarian state cracking down on insurgency. Nobody staples people's lips together. We've only just seen them though, so maybe the next episodes will give us some sort of justification for it, but right now it feels like an almost farcical level of villainy.

The other thing I was wondering (and maybe I missed something) is how is Nick not only still alive but promoted after threatening to pull a gun on Fred and detaining him in a room while June ran away with Nicole last season? Is his status as a war hero/Eye enough to trump an OG Commander? Or is sending him to the Chicago just a quiet way to get rid of him? I thought he'd be executed for his part in allowing Nicole to be "kidnapped".

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



Dude.

Wafflecopper posted:



I still like this show quite a lot, but I do think a lot of the criticisms have some validity, even if I find it kinda weird how much some people seem to hate it.

quote:

The other thing I was wondering (and maybe I missed something) is how is Nick not only still alive but promoted after threatening to pull a gun on Fred and detaining him in a room while June ran away with Nicole last season? Is his status as a war hero/Eye enough to trump an OG Commander? Or is sending him to the Chicago just a quiet way to get rid of him? I thought he'd be executed for his part in allowing Nicole to be "kidnapped".

maybe fred just kinda forgot about it.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005



Wafflecopper posted:

The other thing I was wondering (and maybe I missed something) is how is Nick not only still alive but promoted after threatening to pull a gun on Fred and detaining him in a room while June ran away with Nicole last season? Is his status as a war hero/Eye enough to trump an OG Commander? Or is sending him to the Chicago just a quiet way to get rid of him? I thought he'd be executed for his part in allowing Nicole to be "kidnapped".

Fred deliberately refused to tell anyone official about any of that or what happened because it would get his wife executed and possibly himself to boot.

Evernoob
Jun 21, 2012


It was also mentioned Fred was demoted in some way wasn't it?
At the church most other commanders had some white rope on their shoulder, Fred's was black. Is that any indication of "rank"?

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009



Evernoob posted:

It was also mentioned Fred was demoted in some way wasn't it?
At the church most other commanders had some white rope on their shoulder, Fred's was black. Is that any indication of "rank"?

Wasn't it white again during the last scene of the last episode last week? Maybe these dudes just like to accessorize with their mood.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




It was white, and I don't think he was demoted considering he was just offered a position in DC.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005



Wafflecopper posted:

He wants to bang Fred, it wasn’t subtle

I wonder if (read: hope) he will make him wear turquoise during.

Evernoob posted:

It was also mentioned Fred was demoted in some way wasn't it?
At the church most other commanders had some white rope on their shoulder, Fred's was black. Is that any indication of "rank"?

OK the rope thing I'm sure of. It has nothing to do with rank and, yes, his was eventually back to white after the child/baby celebration service. His was black then for a time because he was in "mourning" of a sort over his missing child. It's supposed to be like a black armband or wearing black for mourning.

Oh, about the demotion people mentioned, I think it might have been a ding in status rather than something formal, and going to DC is definitely a recovery from it. It's a bit oblique what caused his demotion since Lawrence blamed June, but I think it was just his wife's public reading that lost her the finger. Theoretically he should be getting a reputation as a man who can't control the women of his hosehold--June's known for...lack of servility we'll say and Eden went literally fatally out-of-line--but I actually don't think anyone but Serena was relevant to it. (Of course they don't know about his Martha being in the resistance, and that's probably not uncommon anyway.)

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Also can we loving stop with the moral ambiguity for Lawrence? There's no tragic backstory heartbreaking enough to justify the fact that he's "the architect of Gilead's economy." The show seems to keep trying to push him as being super-mysterious and having a hidden agenda (which at this point can pretty much only be something along the lines of "oh god I am so remorseful for my actions let me sneak individual women across the border in penance" which is some bullshit.

The only "good" reveal with him would be that he's a double-agent and is actually gathering info on the resistance for Gilead, by letting it foment in his home. It would suck rear end and probably drag the show into a whole season of June openly operating in some sort of freedom fighter cell.

Either way I hate his character and I hope they hurry up and reveal him as either another dead Resistance member or the Big Bad whose downfall will topple Gilead.

e: I mean poo poo, look at the choice he made June make. The show plays it off as this whole lightbulb moment "ohhhh I get it now! You made me Sophie's Choice 5 women out of 1000 because you're letting me pick good Resistance candidates!" It tries so hard to make that hosed-up scene show Lawrence in a positive light. Just what the show needed - another blatant example of a man being smarter than a woman.

Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 2, 2019

Saucy_Rodent
Oct 24, 2018

by Pragmatica


Anyone else think it was weird that during that Commander meeting at Lawrence’s house Lawrence specifically requested a book by Charles Darwin in front of everyone? Wouldn’t Darwin’s bibliography be in the first batch of a true Gilead bonfire?

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Saucy_Rodent posted:

Anyone else think it was weird that during that Commander meeting at Lawrence’s house Lawrence specifically requested a book by Charles Darwin in front of everyone? Wouldn’t Darwin’s bibliography be in the first batch of a true Gilead bonfire?

It was another example of him being a total rear end in a top hat for no reason other than to establish a "is he good? is he bad?" situation.

He's flaunting power by openly owning a banned book, he's mocking the fact that he's asking a woman to find a book even though she's not allowed to read, and they're trying to shoehorn in a nod/wink situation where it's like "oh hmmmmm if he's got so many banned books openly displayed maybe there's something deeper going on???"

He just sucks so much.

Saucy_Rodent
Oct 24, 2018

by Pragmatica


Snow Cone Capone posted:

It was another example of him being a total rear end in a top hat for no reason other than to establish a "is he good? is he bad?" situation.

He's flaunting power by openly owning a banned book, he's mocking the fact that he's asking a woman to find a book even though she's not allowed to read, and they're trying to shoehorn in a nod/wink situation where it's like "oh hmmmmm if he's got so many banned books openly displayed maybe there's something deeper going on???"

He just sucks so much.

Did they mention the book was banned? I saw it as an oversight on the part of the writers.

Lum_
Jun 5, 2006

Ask me about nerfing your paladin!

Saucy_Rodent posted:

Did they mention the book was banned? I saw it as an oversight on the part of the writers.

It's actually a pretty savvy callout, it's not "The Origin of Species" but "The Descent of Man", which is very pro-Gilead.

https://theweek.com/articles/845444/charles-darwin-makes-chilling-cameo-handmaids-tales-third-season

Commander Lawrence in general would very comfortably fit on the Intellectual Dark Web expounding at length on how a reactionary response to the fertility crisis (the subject of Lawrence's two books seen in the same shot) is really a rational thing to do, you see (furrows brow meaningfully while stroking beard)

Lum_ fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 2, 2019

Collateral
Feb 17, 2010


I stopped watching this show after the lady from mad men banged the playwrights son in a super sexy scene that was so tonally out of place I just threw my hands up and said enough. Torture porn, psychological torture, loving side eyes for 5 minutes yet again, out of place credit music was OK once not every episode come on, loving side eyes (you would think Dexter's wife would just fit her with horse blinkers), Shakespeare being a dick and getting into the sex torture sessions made some sense at least he is a bastard and considering how dudes are normally i don't see why he wouldn't shag every woman under his control, it's not like he loves his wife. Has it got any better or is still verb-porn to the max?

Nick Sax had a career change I see.

e:phone posting autocorrect.

Collateral fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 2, 2019

Zane
Nov 14, 2007


Snow Cone Capone posted:

Also can we loving stop with the moral ambiguity for Lawrence?
there needs to be moment to moment drama within an episodic television framework. human existence in a real totalitarian society is just as crushing but a lot more banal.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 30, 2003




Zane posted:

there needs to be moment to moment drama within an episodic television framework. human existence in a real totalitarian society is just as crushing but a lot more banal.

There's plenty going on that they don't need him chewing the scenery with his little witticisms all the time.

Plus this show has done incredibly interesting things simply exploring the terrifying banality of their society.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES


I feel like we shifted genres from Thriller to Adventure/Horror.

Also, Lawrence the Fickle Psychopath is an hilarious Mastermind-type character. He's easily bored, highly manipulative, understands relationships in terms of power and control and has an irrepressible penchant for the grandiose. God speed, you ridiculous lunatic!

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream



Collateral posted:

I stopped watching this show after the lady from mad men banged the playwrights son in a super sexy scene that was so tonally out of place I just threw my hands up and said enough. Torture porn, psychological torture, loving side eyes for 5 minutes yet again, out of place credit music was OK once not every episode come on, loving side eyes (you would think Dexter's wife would just fit her with horse blinkers), Shakespeare being a dick and getting into the sex torture sessions made some sense at least he is a bastard and considering how dudes are normally i don't see why he wouldn't shag every woman under his control, it's not like he loves his wife. Has it got any better or is still verb-porn to the max?

Nick Sax had a career change I see.

e:phone posting autocorrect.

I too have watched other tv shows

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy


Nothing of any consequence happened this week.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply