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It took my by surprise for sure, but it 100% makes sense that a former hot-poo poo soldier with half a brain in his head would end up as a secret police attached to a family that's fallen under scrutiny. It's a relatively simple, somewhat cushy job that still has a lot of importance - perfect for "we want this soldier to keep working for us but we can't keep sending him to the front non-stop" Also I don't see Lydia switching sides anytime soon. She's starting to crack, sure, but she's a true believer, and the reason she loses it over the mouth rings thing isn't because she thinks they've gone too far, but because she believes she can make the handmaidens perfect for Gilead without resorting to that kind of thing. The show has repeatedly demonstrated how quickly her sympathy for June dissipates. It's not like giving Emily a clitorectomy or cutting out Janine's eye caused her to even raise an eyebrow. The mouth rings are not too barbaric for her, they just don't gel with her particular brand of discipline. "No dear, I don't think all handmaids should be silenced" bullshit, anytime Janine opens her mouth out comes Mr. Cattle Prod. Also, the Swiss diplomat specifically mentions nobody has hosed with Gilead because they have a ton of military power. Imagine the current US military, except all the psycho fundamentalist militias have joined up with them now too. Even in today's world I think Canada would back down from an actual military conflict with the US.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:10
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Lum_ posted:The fact that Nick is being dispatched to oversee street fighting in Chicago (along with maps showing the entire West Coast and much of the southeast under rebel control) rather diminishes the narrative of a militarily powerful Gilead. I disagree, especially since they showed a lot of stuff immediately pre-Gilead last season. If they seized power in DC/the northeast and pushed outward from there, it makes sense that the west and south aren't under their control yet, but it also makes sense that they must have a hell of a military if whatever factions remained loyal to the US didn't immediately crush their coup attempt. I also don't see what reason a diplomat would have to lie to a nobody when confronted over why the rest of the world doesn't just storm in and restore normalcy. Gilead has to have at least a world-stage-level military force, plus I'd have to assume they control at least some of the old US' nuclear arsenal as an additional deterrent.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:29
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I got curious and googled the map they show: It's hard to tell but the light red areas are "Districts under conflict" and only the dark red is "Rebel-occupied areas." OTOH, Chicago is firmly within a blue zone, so there's obviously a disconnect there. Overall I think the conflicting sources is interesting, but I still think that they've got a strong enough military to be putting pressure on Canada, with Europe watching on from afar. Also part of New England is considered a rebel-occupied area, but if you look close it's marked as New Gilead so 
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Jun 27, 2019 23:33
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The hate is mostly because the main character is taking and getting away with some insane risks. June yelling at Serena in a public place like that would have been absolutely unthinkable in the first 2 seasons. The book ended where the first season ended, and the writers just aren't Margaret Atwood-level writers and their original plots are having trouble keeping the unique tone they had from the first season.
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Jun 29, 2019 03:04
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She's involved in some way, but I don't think it's very heavily. Yes, it definitely is still scary. But it's also a lot more...bombastic? Like the last episode - the mouth rings was just entirely over-the-top, because it just plain doesn't make sense. The fact that June is pretty much openly berating and arguing with Serena. Commander Lawrence and his godawful "is he good or is he bad" thing. It just feels like it's slowly turning into a pretty generic Hunger Games-style "fight the dystopian power" show as opposed to what the original novel and first season were. As much as I love post-apocalyptic world-building and such, that's not really what this show is supposed to be about.
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Jun 29, 2019 04:25
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:you are literally the audience they're writing for and continuing to get your viewership by reinforcing your unrealized fears. Because the thing Could happen, maybe, in some incredibly tiny fraction of a chance, and here's the video of what it would be like. post/av combo
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Jun 30, 2019 20:52
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It was white, and I don't think he was demoted considering he was just offered a position in DC.
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Jul 2, 2019 15:27
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Also can we loving stop with the moral ambiguity for Lawrence? There's no tragic backstory heartbreaking enough to justify the fact that he's "the architect of Gilead's economy." The show seems to keep trying to push him as being super-mysterious and having a hidden agenda (which at this point can pretty much only be something along the lines of "oh god I am so remorseful for my actions let me sneak individual women across the border in penance" which is some bullshit. The only "good" reveal with him would be that he's a double-agent and is actually gathering info on the resistance for Gilead, by letting it foment in his home. It would suck rear end and probably drag the show into a whole season of June openly operating in some sort of freedom fighter cell. Either way I hate his character and I hope they hurry up and reveal him as either another dead Resistance member or the Big Bad whose downfall will topple Gilead. e: I mean poo poo, look at the choice he made June make. The show plays it off as this whole lightbulb moment "ohhhh I get it now! You made me Sophie's Choice 5 women out of 1000 because you're letting me pick good Resistance candidates!" It tries so hard to make that hosed-up scene show Lawrence in a positive light. Just what the show needed - another blatant example of a man being smarter than a woman. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jul 2, 2019 |
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Jul 2, 2019 17:30
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Saucy_Rodent posted:Anyone else think it was weird that during that Commander meeting at Lawrence’s house Lawrence specifically requested a book by Charles Darwin in front of everyone? Wouldn’t Darwin’s bibliography be in the first batch of a true Gilead bonfire? It was another example of him being a total rear end in a top hat for no reason other than to establish a "is he good? is he bad?" situation. He's flaunting power by openly owning a banned book, he's mocking the fact that he's asking a woman to find a book even though she's not allowed to read, and they're trying to shoehorn in a nod/wink situation where it's like "oh hmmmmm if he's got so many banned books openly displayed maybe there's something deeper going on???" He just sucks so much.
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Jul 2, 2019 17:51
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Zane posted:there needs to be moment to moment drama within an episodic television framework. human existence in a real totalitarian society is just as crushing but a lot more banal. There's plenty going on that they don't need him chewing the scenery with his little witticisms all the time. Plus this show has done incredibly interesting things simply exploring the terrifying banality of their society.
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Jul 2, 2019 23:36
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God this episode was awful. I'm glad we're in the cycle of "the Waterford love each other again but a dark looming secret will surely tear them apart...again" Also very cool of June to be so oblivious that she blames the black handmaid for that Martha's hanging instead of, y'know, herself, for unsuccessfully roping the Martha into her plot armor bubble e: I did think it was neat how the others formed a screen around June and the other handmaid (ofmatthew?) when they were fighting but jesus gently caress, there was a cop car right there, that was infinitely more stupid than the shouting match at the Lincoln Memorial. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jul 5, 2019 |
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Jul 5, 2019 15:10
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IIRC the book doesn't explicitly tell you she survives after she gets taken away by the Eyes (aka the end of S1); it just says that they found the story up til she gets in the van recorded on cassette tapes. It's implied that Gilead falls, but not necessarily that she survives.
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Jul 10, 2019 19:10
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So we're supposed to feel bad for Lydia because...she couldn't handle rejection? (It wasn't even a full rejection, he seemed sincere when he said he wanted to see her again). I'll admit, with the uneven characterization of basically every character in Gilead by now, I thought they would go hardcore into the "was a good person who underwent severe trauma/tragedy" route, but jesus. Christ, this show is going off the rails. The Ninth Layer posted:This show is shot and directed like a stage play, the character acting is the focus. I don't think the directors want us constantly worrying about who could be watching or listening at any given moment, or how much the guards are overhearing or whatever. It's a good thing they didn't spend the first 2 seasons emphasizing just how heavily-surveilled and monitored everyone, up to and including Commanders and Eyes are! That would be super-awkward. It's already been flat-out stated that June survives, which is dumb as hell and goes against the original novel. But IMO if they wanted to turn this show from what it was in S1/2 to just a straight-up revolution, they should have planned for June to die, but her death being the spark that sets off something bigger. Like, I dunno. They've already shown that Lydia is unstable and has no problem beating a Handmaid unconscious in front of everyone - have the season be June antagonizing Lydia like she is now, but culminating in, say, June saying something so egregious during another Nichole broadcast that Lydia ends up beating her to death on live TV or something. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 20:58
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The Ninth Layer posted:Janine was physically threatening the life of a baby. And in that instance the handmaids refused to stone her. congrats on having by far the weirdest takes in this thread
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Jul 11, 2019 03:48
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Uh I don't think anyone in the thread wants her dead as much as they are lamenting the increasingly distracting lack of consequences for the increasingly bonkers and out-in-the-open things she's doing. The show is completely losing its original message. e: it's not like "shows that get real bad real fast once they run out of the source material" is a new and shocking thing, either.
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Jul 11, 2019 03:58
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That trump card would be pretty easily trumped itself by "we can nail your mouth shut and nobody will know bc you've already appeared on TV with your mouth covered" What was this week's "graphic shock value for no reason," the extended shot of the dead baby?
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Jul 11, 2019 15:07
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Lum_ posted:Ofmatthew's half-dead body being dragged out of Gilead's one and only store Nah see that tracks, stark violence against women has been part of the show since the start. It's only recently they've cranked up the shock value. If Serena had lost her finger in S3 instead of S2 they absolutely would have shown a long, dramatic shot of her severed finger lying on a table. Same with the suicide bombing - if it was this season they would have lingered on the gory aftermath.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:27
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Also I'm having trouble figuring out why they had her flip out on the one person who had been consistently sympathetic to her. I get the whole "she snapped and probably wasn't thinking straight" but it just seems like a weird writing decision.
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Jul 11, 2019 15:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmtzUGhjZjI uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugghhh at least someone's finally loving calling June out on her bullshit.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:13
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I said come in! posted:Okay last nights episode was maybe the first good episode of the season? It still had its problems, but like, the Lydia flashback was incredibly good and well done in my opinion. I enjoyed that part a lot. I thought it was awful. Are we supposed to sympathize with her for even a second? Or is it just adding more fuel to the "yes, Lydia is an awful person under it all" fire, because we already knew she's the loving worst.
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Jul 11, 2019 16:14
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The sole bright point is the fact that based on the preview the other handmaids are starting to get tired of June's bullshit
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Jul 12, 2019 17:00
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It was good when compared to the trainwreck of the rest of this season. Literally nothing happens, and of all the gross-out shots so far this episode seems like the most forced one.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:11
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The AV Club review reminded me of the fact that we're 9 episodes in and this week's big revelation is that June is in exactly the same situation she was at the start of the season except she's already alienated virtually every source of aid and assistance (Serena, Lawrence, the Marthas now that they know she's willing to put them in harm's way for her own ends, even the other Handmaids are starting to lose patience with her bullshit)
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Jul 17, 2019 22:59
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How do we empower the woman main character? By parading every other main woman character through her room but leaving the real game-changing  insight to the random dude doctor, of course!e:  : you're being selfish and also insaneJoon:   : "how will you honor your children"Joon: 
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Jul 18, 2019 01:21
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mcmagic posted:What are the chances they wouldn't have a camera in that room to see her slash Serena? This applies to virtually every one of June's outbursts though
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Jul 18, 2019 18:44
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Pththya-lyi posted:The first scene was especially effective - they did a good job of showing how isolation is getting to June. But the best thing about the whole arc is that it seems to be over now! nah, based on the preview we get 1 more episode where June's plot armor gets everyone around her killed, this time it looks like it's Lawrence
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Jul 18, 2019 18:56
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In the season finale it is unfortunately revealed that they installed microphones in the supermarket fridges
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Jul 26, 2019 12:22
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So the Veil and the Ring that they're rolling out across the country both refer to the mouth rings, right? I kind of hate that they threw that line in there so casually. The rings thing is one of the most pointless shock-value concepts introduced on the show (not to mention dumb and unrealistic)
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Jul 26, 2019 14:02
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Oh drat I didn't know she had written a sequel! Hopefully it's entirely unlike S2/3. e: whew: quote:The Testaments will be set 15 years after Offred’s final scene in The Handmaid’s Tale and narrated by three female characters. It will not be connected to the television version, which has extended beyond Atwood’s 1985 novel to continue Offred’s story.
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Jul 30, 2019 20:35
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They already specifically stated June survives til the end.
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Jul 31, 2019 19:41
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Escobarbarian posted:Still watching the episode but it seems so weird that the SDH subtitles always call June “Ofjoseph” I could swear the subtitles shift her name depending on her situation (when she's talking to Lydia the subtitles call her Ofjoseph, but when she was talking to the Swiss diplomats they called her June)
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Aug 1, 2019 15:32
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Wait, Nick is dead? When did that happen?
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Aug 1, 2019 17:56
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Ah, ok. This episode didn't have any pointless grossness, but I'll admit that Meloni trying to speak through lungs with like a dozen holes in them was extremely disturbing to me.
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Aug 1, 2019 18:39
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yeah, what the gently caress was that
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Aug 7, 2019 16:29
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RIP Liz Lemon's new best friend  
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Aug 7, 2019 21:49
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I mean the showrunners seem to be doing their best to portray June as increasingly unhinged, and the Waterfords and even Lawrence as nuanced, somewhat sympathy-inducing characters.
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Aug 8, 2019 16:39
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I didn't say they're sympathetic, I said the showrunners are trying their damnedest to make them seem sympathetic. There's a difference.
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Aug 8, 2019 16:52
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screamin and creamin posted:Eleanor was a huge liability for June's plan to save 52 kids. It was mentioned on the show that she couldn't get decent treatment. Do we know that she could have and would have been saved in Gilead? Maybe they would have performed some "thoughts and prayers" voodoo on her. Sorry but there's a multitude of different ways that problem could have been dealt with and "standing and watching as a mentally ill person ODs and dies" was probably the most hosed-up, short of June poisoning her herself.
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Aug 8, 2019 21:43
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screamin and creamin posted:Okay, so how should she have dealt with it without jeopardizing everything. I was of course arguing in terms of that world, not ours. I mean, I think that after June flipped out on her, she would have gotten the point. She was unstable, but not completely gone. Lawrence could have had an additional word with her too. Like, I know it kind of reeks of "well if I was a writer I would have made her do this" and it wouldn't make for good TV, but a sit-down conversation between the 3 of them bottom-lining "this is extremely dangerous and the slightest mention will get us all executed" would have done the trick. Alternatively, Lawrence making an excuse to everyone that she's sick and can't see company; wouldn't be that tough since all the other wives seem to know that she's not well.
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Aug 9, 2019 06:41
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D-Pad posted:This reads as if you've never experienced what it is like to try and reason with an actual crazy person off their meds. If reasoning could do it she wouldn't have almost gave it away in the first place. I mean I am not trying to justify June's actions at all, but "they could have just reasoned with her" is incredibly naive. I appreciate the sentiment but "an actual crazy person off their meds"would lead me to assume that you, also, have no experience with mental illness, so let's go with the old standby about assuming things about strangers 
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Aug 12, 2019 04:52
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