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ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument



Some may argue that going 1-20 would create horrible pacing problems. On my end? This reeks of BG 1. Actually start at level 3 or something. Level 1 is bulldonk and everybody knows it.

ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 17, 2020

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AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

deedee megadoodoo posted:

You can look them up on the bottom right side of the screen. There's a little node you can click on that will pop out a text box containing dice rolls. My only complaint is that it doesn't scroll as the game goes on so you need to manually scroll it down to see the latest rolls.

Oh huh I looked at that and thought it didnít show numbers. Guess I will look again thanks.

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion



Blooming Brilliant posted:

That's the Pact of the Chain Level 3 Warlock option, they can all take it. Currently the other two Pacts (Blade and Tome) aren't in game.

The Quasit is a really nice companion to have to help Rogues with Sneak Attacks.

Unrelated, I really hope Larian makes the final level (before expansions) at least 12.

Apparently they've already stated in some stream the level cap is gonna be somewhere above 10. 12 seems likely and also a good place to stop since it gives you your third ability score increase. (I unironically believe they're not gonna stop at 11 or 13 because the numbers don't look nice, for lack of a better word.)

deedee megadoodoo
Sep 28, 2000
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one to Flavortown, and that has made all the difference.




Oven Wrangler

AlternateAccount posted:

Oh huh I looked at that and thought it didnít show numbers. Guess I will look again thanks.

Hover over the text and it will show the numbers. It doesn't show both rolls if advantage/disadvantage is rolled though.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

Of course!



Nurse, removing breathing tube: "You're going to be a little hoarse."

Me: "Could I be a big horse?"

Blooming Brilliant posted:

That's the Pact of the Chain Level 3 Warlock option, they can all take it. Currently the other two Pacts (Blade and Tome) aren't in game.

The Quasit is a really nice companion to have to help Rogues with Sneak Attacks.

Unrelated, I really hope Larian makes the final level (before expansions) at least 12.

Yeah I eventually figured that out. It's not shown on the character sheet anywhere.

Khanstant
Apr 5, 2007



queeb posted:

I'm like 3 hours into Pathfinder and my main tank lady has like AC 33. It's weird coming from 5e to the huge numbers in kingmaker.

Pathfinder and 5E are like yin-and-yang. Pathfinder you have a lot of numbers and stats to consider, building and leveling up your character is something complicated and has an large impact on how your character plays or is effective and ya gotta know the rules. BG3, pick which hottie to be, pick a theme for your abilities, poke your numbers if you wanna get crazy and then you're basically set for the rest of the game, just remember to click level up sometimes.

One thing I think is cool about 5E in general is that neat is even level 1 babies can wreck things with the right lucky rolls and the reduced power levels all around. The Mindflayer you can heal and fight early on would probably be an impossible fight with 2 party members barely geared at level 2 but with 5E rules + larian house rules you can take him out manageably.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3 days!


TheGreatEvilKing posted:

hideous laughter,

I just cast that on someone so it's there.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




ChrisBTY posted:

Some may argue that going 1-20 would create horrible pacing problems. On my end? This reeks of BG 1. Actually start at level 3 or something. Level 1 is bulldonk and everybody knows it.

Yeah I kind of hope it covers the full spectrum of levels/power, too.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Level 1-3 are always nonsense levels in DnD and in DOS2.

treizebee
Dec 29, 2011

Stage 3 oil injection


I've liked level 2 starts in 5e because of how class molding level 3 is. It's a good place to begin especially in milestone leveling campaigns. Games that do similar, where the first level-up determines your class basics, is good too.

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


Started playing DOS2 again, I didn't remember why exactly I got tired of the game to the point I stopped playing it other than it constantly throwing elemental hazards at you, but then I got to act II and it all came flooding back. The dev just love making every other fight into an annoying drag by either throwing dozen and dozens of enemies at you or nuking the entire party to near death before you even get to move. Blackpit in particular is bad, especially that loving vault fight with Aetera and her bullshit.

I dread they're going to do the same stuff in this game, it's beyond annoying, makes it so they only way to succeed at the game is to either min/max to the extreme or meta-game the game.

deedee megadoodoo
Sep 28, 2000
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one to Flavortown, and that has made all the difference.




Oven Wrangler

Don't get me wrong, I love DOS2. But everyone says "it's a strategy game" when in fact the actual strategy is savescumming to figure out the tricks for every combat. It's still fun to pull off cool combos and eventually win a tough battle, but it's not truly a strategy game.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




The trick from beginning to end is "nuke their physical OR magical armor then spam crowd control effects forever". You should never be hit after round one if you know what you're doing a little bit. The problem, of course, is that they kinda balance fights around this system so you get heavy nuked the first round. The key is surviving that first round nuke, then doing whatever.

Teleportation is also the best spell, not because it's fun or cool (it is) but because you can teleport dudes so far away they lose a turn or two.

Xerophyte
Mar 17, 2008

This space intentionally left blank


blizzardvizard posted:

We have the first act of the game; it's roughly about 20 hours worth of gameplay. That said some of the content (quests, dialogues, companions, etc) are still unfinished and you're also not expected to be able to just continue with your save all the way through the development process. Many people are reporting performance issues as well, although these things are of course partly dependent on your PC's specs.

I just want to strongly second this. I've enjoyed beta testing BG3 well enough, but I have plenty of free time and I was well aware that I was going to get a janky and partly broken mess, containing only Act 1 that I'd need to redo when the game hits 1.0. I would absolutely not recommend BG3's early access to anyone who hasn't followed the development at least somewhat and wants a complete game.

If you want to spend some time off getting cozy with a nice long RPG: play one that's finished, balanced and doesn't randomly freeze, crash or otherwise glitch out quite so much. Original Sin 2 will give you a taste for what BG3 will be like since it's the same developer, and they're keeping a toned-down version of all the environmental stuff from the Original Sins. Otherwise try Pillars of Eternity if you want something very much like BG1 and BG2; Pillars 2 if you want a better game than Pillars 1 and don't care so much about hopping on the story in medias res; Pathfinder: Kingmaker if you want a long Mony Haul-style power gaming campaign.

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010

Later!


deedee megadoodoo posted:

Don't get me wrong, I love DOS2. But everyone says "it's a strategy game" when in fact the actual strategy is savescumming to figure out the tricks for every combat. It's still fun to pull off cool combos and eventually win a tough battle, but it's not truly a strategy game.

I don't get it, how is that different than savescumming in say xcom? I mean I would call it a tactical rpg personally, but why would being able to save scum exclude it?

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


Ideally a difficult strategy (or tactics I suppose) game lets you figure out the challenge ahead of time, or while you're facing it, and adapt without needing to reload. Reloading a save is usually a loss state, like trying to win a chess game by resetting the board every time you gently caress up isn't really "winning".

I love xcom to bits but the fact that it leans so heavily into alpha striking every enemy group is only counteracted by the fact that you have pretty much always certainty of what you're approaching and how to approach it while managing your resources for the mission. D:OS2, for all its virtues, is too random or janky to really allow for that without savescumming. You don't know what the encounter will be like until it's too late. That's okay for a few difficult or gimmick fights (mostly blackpits come to mind...) but gets old fast.

I didn't quite have the same issues in BG3 (yet?) but the randomness of the dice is what kills me most often. But that's on DND 5e, not Larian

Funky See Funky Do
Aug 20, 2013
STILL TRYING HARD

Is there a hit chance bug? Anything under 90% is almost a guaranteed miss. It's maybe a 20% chance.

E: Also I just started combat with everyone at camp by throwing the ball at the dog.

Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Oct 17, 2020

Touchdown Boy
Apr 1, 2007

I saw my friend there out on the field today, I asked him where he's going, he said "All the way."

Phlegmish posted:

Don't lie to yourself you'll get it by next week at the latest

I also said I was going to hold off on the EA, yet here it is sitting in my game library

Well maybe I will buy it now... but I defintely wont play it...

chaosapiant posted:

Iíd suggest letting this game sit in the oven a while longer and, if you havenít already, play Pathfinder Kingmaker and the Pillars of Eternity games.

I actually have not, and I noticed they (PoEs) were on offer on steam a while back and didnt buy them. Any thoughts one which of those games by these devs I should try?

Edit: Read more

Xerophyte posted:


If you want to spend some time off getting cozy with a nice long RPG: play one that's finished, balanced and doesn't randomly freeze, crash or otherwise glitch out quite so much. Original Sin 2 will give you a taste for what BG3 will be like since it's the same developer, and they're keeping a toned-down version of all the environmental stuff from the Original Sins. Otherwise try Pillars of Eternity if you want something very much like BG1 and BG2; Pillars 2 if you want a better game than Pillars 1 and don't care so much about hopping on the story in medias res; Pathfinder: Kingmaker if you want a long Mony Haul-style power gaming campaign.

Thanks for all the replies people.

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time


Funky See Funky Do posted:

Is there a hit chance bug? Anything under 90% is almost a guaranteed miss. It's maybe a 20% chance.

E: Also I just started combat with everyone at camp by throwing the ball at the dog.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience


Should Lae'Zel be in my party from very early in the act? Like...she was trapped in a cage, and I freed her, but she vanished or something and I haven't seen her in a long time I think. Not sure where she ran off to...a bug?

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



French Canadian posted:

Should Lae'Zel be in my party from very early in the act? Like...she was trapped in a cage, and I freed her, but she vanished or something and I haven't seen her in a long time I think. Not sure where she ran off to...a bug?

Is she not at camp?

Related, just give me a party loadout screen Larian this having to talk to people to take them out then talk to who I want to out in stuff is for the birds.

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time


French Canadian posted:

Should Lae'Zel be in my party from very early in the act? Like...she was trapped in a cage, and I freed her, but she vanished or something and I haven't seen her in a long time I think. Not sure where she ran off to...a bug?

Push the button that lets you long rest in the top right next to the minimap, she'll be there for you to recruit. If she isn't, it's bugged.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience


Frida Call Me posted:

Push the button that lets you long rest in the top right next to the minimap, she'll be there for you to recruit. If she isn't, it's bugged.

Nah...she's not there. That's loving stupid and now I'm pissed. I have like 30 hours in this so far.

edit: Apparently according to my quest log I left her to her fate in the cage. So she's like dead forever?

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time


French Canadian posted:

Nah...she's not there. That's loving stupid and now I'm pissed. I have like 30 hours in this so far.

edit: Apparently according to my quest log I left her to her fate in the cage. So she's like dead forever?

If she's not at the cage then I could only assume so. When I killed Shadowheart on my Life Cleric playthrough, the quest log indicated on it that I wouldn't be able to save her (since I hadn't recruited her to the party, I couldn't revifiy her).

deedee megadoodoo
Sep 28, 2000
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one to Flavortown, and that has made all the difference.




Oven Wrangler

French Canadian posted:

Nah...she's not there. That's loving stupid and now I'm pissed. I have like 30 hours in this so far.

edit: Apparently according to my quest log I left her to her fate in the cage. So she's like dead forever?

She might show up later if you leave her in the cage. Keep in mind that the EA is just a tiny portion of what the game will be. And itís early access and theyíre still working through bugs.

Related - I killed her in most of my games because I hate her bossy attitude.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006



Man if I can leave Laeízel in the cage to make her even pissier later that would be great. I donít hate her but I was disappointed sheís not at least a little friendlier to another Githyanki.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience


deedee megadoodoo posted:

She might show up later if you leave her in the cage. Keep in mind that the EA is just a tiny portion of what the game will be. And itís early access and theyíre still working through bugs.

Related - I killed her in most of my games because I hate her bossy attitude.

I just now returned to where she was hanging in a cage but the cage is gone and just the rope remains. I recall that I actually got the two red horned folk to gently caress off (saying I'd "take care" of her) but when I did that I think she glitched out of existence maybe?

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


She glitched right out of the cage for me, so I was simultaneously having her snarl at me about going to the camp and negotiating her release.

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time


French Canadian posted:

I just now returned to where she was hanging in a cage but the cage is gone and just the rope remains. I recall that I actually got the two red horned folk to gently caress off (saying I'd "take care" of her) but when I did that I think she glitched out of existence maybe?

Yeah if you pass the persuasion check you can send the Tieflings back to town for you to deal with her. If you pass the deception check, they let her down so that all of you can "finish her off", then you get the option to side with Tieflings or Lae'zel. It sounds like you succeeded on the persuasion check, you just didn't talk to her in camp afterwards and it broke at some point after that.

Phlegmish
Jul 2, 2011




Touchdown Boy posted:

Well maybe I will buy it now... but I defintely wont play it...

I'm at that stage right now but I'll probably cave by next week

TheGreatEvilKing
Mar 28, 2016



MonsterEnvy posted:

I just cast that on someone so it's there.

It's a GOO warlock only spell for...reasons I cannot fathom.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

Of course!



Nurse, removing breathing tube: "You're going to be a little hoarse."

Me: "Could I be a big horse?"

This might be a dumb 5e question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer but,

You can only have one Concentration spell/ability active at once, right? If you try to use another spell/ability that requires Concentration it will break and replace any other Concentration spell/ability?

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Fritz the Horse posted:

This might be a dumb 5e question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer but,

You can only have one Concentration spell/ability active at once, right? If you try to use another spell/ability that requires Concentration it will break and replace any other Concentration spell/ability?

Correct.

Concentration spells are very bad in BG 3 though at the moment, because there is a ton of unresistable damage from surfaces and explosions, and concentration fails on any total roll below 10 or half the damage.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




TheGreatEvilKing posted:

It's a GOO warlock only spell for...reasons I cannot fathom.

Cthulhu has a horrible, horrible sense of humor.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009




Some thoughts on classes

Warlock: at these early levels seems the strongest. Good damage every single turn with plenty of per rest special abilities too. Seems like a prime candidate for the PC with its CHA focus.

Cleric: very useful and if it's your PC you can dump the most annoying companion. The guidance spell is of course OP so taking Persuasion skill and only 12 CHA I still passed most checks. Recommend you go Elf/DEX so you get the longbow proficiency. You can stay back and hit with your bow after your spells run out instead of being at risk as a bad melee fighter. The lovely At-Will range damage already struggles to hit so getting any bonuses at range helps. Light seems the best domain and gives you more damage spells. STR based would seem pretty spread out on stats, but if I was gonna do it I would pick a race with good freebie weapon profs (Gith or Dwarf prolly).

Ranger: as someone said they feel unsatisfying but I can't say whether its actually weak. You don't get much in the way of active abilities beyond the summons. No fancy bow shots or anything. Maybe I'm just missing my 4e/D:OS more interesting martials. Doesn't help that archery is currently one of the most underwhelming as far as FX goes. Spells have fantastic oomph but it's always plink plink with bows.

Wizard: Feels pretty good at both damage and control. You lose a bit on DD compared to a Warlock but it feels fitting you gain a lot of flexibility. Use find familiar because even for a couple of HP critters they can be very useful. The little cat has killed a couple goblins even. Evocation isn't amazing at this level but the other one seemed more underwhelming.

Fighter: haven't tried EK, but Battle Master seems solid. With your STR you can do more shoving and jumping on the battlefield so it actually felt more interesting than the Ranger and melee hits have plenty of crunch FX. It still feels simple but I probably just need to accept its better for martials in comparison to 2e D&D and not compare to 4e/D:OS/Kingmaker/etc.

Rogue: haven't played around enough, but seems solid enough with the edge going to dual wield melee vs ranged. It also feels like you can get by fine without one so they aren't required which is good with our tiny party.

The ship tutorial isn't bad once you get used to it. I don't even try to make that Jump glitch work and was still zipping through in minutes. If I could turn off tutorial messages it'd be faster.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


With my Ranger/Beastmaster, I have been summoning the bear, which has an AoE taunt with a very large radius, and casting Mage Armor on it. It does a pretty good job of absorbing damage and if it dies I can just summon another after the fight.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

Of course!



Nurse, removing breathing tube: "You're going to be a little hoarse."

Me: "Could I be a big horse?"

FuzzySlippers posted:

Some thoughts on classes

Warlock: at these early levels seems the strongest. Good damage every single turn with plenty of per rest special abilities too. Seems like a prime candidate for the PC with its CHA focus.

Cleric: very useful and if it's your PC you can dump the most annoying companion. The guidance spell is of course OP so taking Persuasion skill and only 12 CHA I still passed most checks. Recommend you go Elf/DEX so you get the longbow proficiency. You can stay back and hit with your bow after your spells run out instead of being at risk as a bad melee fighter. The lovely At-Will range damage already struggles to hit so getting any bonuses at range helps. Light seems the best domain and gives you more damage spells. STR based would seem pretty spread out on stats, but if I was gonna do it I would pick a race with good freebie weapon profs (Gith or Dwarf prolly).

Ranger: as someone said they feel unsatisfying but I can't say whether its actually weak. You don't get much in the way of active abilities beyond the summons. No fancy bow shots or anything. Maybe I'm just missing my 4e/D:OS more interesting martials. Doesn't help that archery is currently one of the most underwhelming as far as FX goes. Spells have fantastic oomph but it's always plink plink with bows.

Wizard: Feels pretty good at both damage and control. You lose a bit on DD compared to a Warlock but it feels fitting you gain a lot of flexibility. Use find familiar because even for a couple of HP critters they can be very useful. The little cat has killed a couple goblins even. Evocation isn't amazing at this level but the other one seemed more underwhelming.

Fighter: haven't tried EK, but Battle Master seems solid. With your STR you can do more shoving and jumping on the battlefield so it actually felt more interesting than the Ranger and melee hits have plenty of crunch FX. It still feels simple but I probably just need to accept its better for martials in comparison to 2e D&D and not compare to 4e/D:OS/Kingmaker/etc.

Rogue: haven't played around enough, but seems solid enough with the edge going to dual wield melee vs ranged. It also feels like you can get by fine without one so they aren't required which is good with our tiny party.

The ship tutorial isn't bad once you get used to it. I don't even try to make that Jump glitch work and was still zipping through in minutes. If I could turn off tutorial messages it'd be faster.

I can only comment on the two classes I've played with a bit as PC, but I largely agree with your opinions.

Ranger: compliments the existing story companions very well. Has great utility spells (talk with animals seems pretty useful). There doesn't seem to be much point in Wisdom for their spells, since they have a limited selection of combat spells and why would you even bother? Wisdom is still fine for some utility/skill checks, just not as a casting stat. Hunter's Mark is amazing, it basically gives you sneak attack on everything. High damage, pretty tanky, great utility.
Beastmaster animal companion is... mediocre. Apparently it doesn't scale with your level so it's only alright.

Cleric: Light domain owns. I went with a Wood Elf Dex build, 16 Dex and 16 Wis. Light domain lets you use reaction to roll one incoming attack per turn at a disadvantage plus you get nukes as domain spells. You can cover buffs/debuffs and healing plus you get decent nukes and you're fairly tanky. Also you don't have to put up with Shadowheart as your (rather mandatory) party cleric. I agree she's annoying as a character and also kinda lovely since the enemy AI seems to focus target her and she gets knocked out right away every. goddamn. combat. There are hints that she plays a really important role in the plot but a PC cleric is much better than her.

Light Domain Cleric is pretty great all-around. Heals, nukes, buffs/debuffs, pretty tanky.



Wisdom-related skills seem a bit overrepresented so far. Insight and Perception are suuuuper important.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Oct 18, 2020

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion



In the TT version the Arcane Ward from Abjuration will give you 2 x level + INT mod worth of temp HP (7 HP with Gale's 16 INT at level 2), while here it seems to only take your INT modifier and doesn't scale. It should be better once it's fixed.

Internet Explorer posted:

With my Ranger/Beastmaster, I have been summoning the bear, which has an AoE taunt with a very large radius, and casting Mage Armor on it. It does a pretty good job of absorbing damage and if it dies I can just summon another after the fight.

Yeah people rave about the spider companion because of it's wildly high HP pool (which, honestly, is probably a mistake?) but I think the Bear is quite a bit better because it draws ranged attacks as well, while the spider's Web only incapacitates melee (and affects friendly allies). It's like the Mimic Beacon from XCOM2 that lasts between turns.

ChickenHeart
Nov 28, 2007

Take me at your own risk.



Kiss From a Hog

I can safely declare that barrels are the new 5e meta:

Enemy hidden behind cover? The humble barrel's generous throwing arc can let you strike back!

Goblins charging through a chokepoint? A one-two punch of oil and fire barrels will sort them out with extreme prejudice.

Teammates on fire due to a miscalculated oil barrel toss? No problem! Just chuck a barrel of water into the inferno.

Treasure chest on a ledge that you can't leap to? Just stack a few crates (the cuboid cousin of the barrel) for that extra reach!

Sleeping ally too far away? A barrel makes for the perfect 40-pound wakeup call!

Trapped chest? Let that mindflayer disarm it for you! Lethally.

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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




I think one of the methods to easily beat DOS2 was to fill a barrel up with the heaviest poo poo imaginable and drop it on people. Barrels are very much a big aspect of Larian games.

Gotta say that the death effects for fire/radiant spells are my favorite. Very cathartic.

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