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Phlegmish posted:Larian are not great story writers, I just hope they do a little better in an established setting. The writing in OS2 was fun
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Sep 18, 2019 13:06
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Phlegmish posted:They did well with the characters and dialogues that time around, I liked them in OS2. Once again, though, the main story managed to be both heavy-handed and forgettable. In my opinion. I never thought the main story in BG was that memorable either. Aside from mask of the betrayer I don't think any of the classic WRPG main stories had much pull for me
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Sep 18, 2019 13:11
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Core dnd 5e is boring as gently caress so I hope larian uses it as little as possible or at least adds a shitton of new stuff
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Oct 3, 2019 12:29
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For this game Larian should just ignore the D&D ruleset and iterate on Original Sin 2 combat while giving it a D&D skin
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Oct 3, 2019 13:10
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Having not played DOS2 could you elaborate as to why? I want a D&D 5e computer game to play, not some random developer's own personal (read: usually bad) vision of a good system. I want a game where I am already familiar with the classes/leveling up/development aspect so I dont have to do hours and hours and hours of reading and testing before I pick a class to play for a game that I hope is at least a couple dozen hours worth of playtime. Therefore when people are saying 5e is bad I want to why they think its bad and thus why Larian should go a different direction for a game based on D&D. I'm not trying to be lovely - I am genuinely curious. Because Original Sin 2 has amazing combat while 5e combat is average at best if I'm being generous. Also Original Sin 2 lets you respec at any time so there's no stress of picking a "bad" class because that would be absolutely awful design. If you're going to have the player make big character build choices without having any information about the systems or a way to correct their build, you should make absolutely sure that your design is top notch so that there are no trap options (so not 5e). Andrast fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 13:23
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I understand you are saying that D:OS2 has amazing combat compared to 5e, I am asking why you are saying that. Please elaborate. OS2 has great turn-based combat that gives every character a really large toolset with a shitton of available skills/spells, interactions between said skills and environmental effects. You can mix and match all of this poo poo freely and there are very few restrictions on what you can do. There is so much fun poo poo you can do with OS2 combat and the developers also know that you can do shitton of really powerful poo poo so encounter design is adjusted appropriately. Original Sin 2 has a very sandboxy design philosophy when it comes to character building and combat, it wants you to do dumb stuff and try poo poo out. This contrasts very much with 5e that's most just a shallower version of 3.5e combat which wasn't very good either but had more hilariously broken poo poo. Half the classes are boring as hell whose combat abilities mostly consists of "I hit you" and "I hit you slightly harder". Casters have more going on but most of their combat abilities don't result in very interesting tactical decisions either since the abilities of separate classes don't really interact with each other in any meaningful way. The balance is nonexistent, which is a problem when players are expected to make long-term character decisions at the very beginning (but tbf there is no reason why they couldn't make a full respec available at all times using a D&D ruleset either). The bad balance also has an effect on encounter design since it's really difficult to do interesting encounters when character power varies between hitting you with a sword and effectively ending combats with a single spell. Original Sin 2 combat isn't very balanced either but it's still pretty difficult to accidentally make a character that isn't at least solid. It's also a system made around trying weird poo poo and adjusting your builds when the dumb you try poo poo doesn't work so it's not a big deal. Classes and combat in D&D is generally much more rigid than in OS2, which I feel like is just worse for a video game. Andrast fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 13:40
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exquisite tea posted:What I like most about D:OS2's combat is that it feels weighty and substantial from Level 1. Even when your dudes are covered in rags and wearing buckets for helmets, their abilities still do some chunky damage with powerful environmental effects and tasteful amounts of screenshake. Compare this to just about any other CRPG out there where you're stuck with piddly spells for the first 20 hours that glance off enemies for no damage, because ~the rulebook~ says so. Being turn-based makes you feel the impact of each individual decision for good and for ill, and one pivotal choice can sometimes lead to hilarious reversals of fortune in either direction. Larian doesn't hold back on making your party feel powerful from the start, which is something I hope they can carry over into BG3. What I like most about OS2's combat: teleport just teleport
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Oct 3, 2019 14:05
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Chairchucker posted:TBH I got sick of D:OS2's combat. Or maybe other things like the loot and levelling systems. I really disliked the loot system too. I installed a mod that reduced the scaling a ton (way more than the enhanced edition too) and had way more fun with it.
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Oct 3, 2019 14:09
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chaosapiant posted:I've always been of the belief that any rules set can be good and fun if there is either a good DM, or a good and fun interpretation of the rules in whatever computer game it is. That said I haven't played 5E, so I could be talking out of my rear end. Of course any ruleset can be fun with a good DM since they can just ignore most of the boring rules. Anyway 5e combat isn't like horrible, it's just mediocrity personified. Andrast fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Oct 3, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 14:50
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Nobody should ever care what is canon in an rpg setting
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Oct 3, 2019 20:02
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Mordaedil posted:I feel like I'd be horribly gyped if I bought a D&D game and it didn't feature the rules at all. I assume you dislike Baldur's gate 1 and 2 then because the game being RTWP instead of normal turn-based means that the gameplay doesn't really play like tabletop D&D at all. Why would you even get Larian to make BG3 if you didn't want them to iterate on their awesome battle system since that is the one thing that sets game apart
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Oct 4, 2019 11:23
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Mordaedil posted:Magic missile has always dealt 1d4+1 damage, what is this brainworm? Not in 4e where it wasn't even an automatic hit like it traditionally has been (before errata at least)
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Oct 4, 2019 11:31
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Mordaedil posted:I've said as much before, yes. I don't think 5e is a very good fit for a D&D video game The strengths of 5e in general (or what people seem to like about the edition) are very much things that would make it worse as a video game. If BG3 combat would be faithful to 5e it would be most boring thing in the world. Anyway, I would prefer if Larian did OS3 instead of BG but since I can't have that yet, I definitely want BG3 to resemble divinity as much as possible, Andrast fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 11:38
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Calico Heart posted:The thing that makes 5e so fun to play is it's maybe the most innovation/creative-thinking-friendly iteration of the game to date. It's the version of the game where you can summon two tonnes of food behind you when you're running away from guards, or create eight swarms of rats and then turn into a swarm of rats, or turn someone's hand to stone and then use shape stone to turn their hand into a key you need. The entire design philosophy of 5e is "Rulings over Rules" which is why I would always rather play it that say, 3.5, where you need to check off a list of six modifiers and conditions to fire an arrow when the end result is the same; it hits or it doesn't. tbf those are things you can do with literally any tabletop rpg in existence
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Oct 4, 2019 11:56
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Calico Heart posted:3.5 and pathfinder have way more stipulations about how abilities can be used though, along with having to do way more bullshit rolls that don't actually enrich the experience/tactical element of the game. Sure. There just isn't much in actual rules text of 5e that supports doing whatever you want (over the other editions at least) but 5e is definitely more light-weight which makes that stuff simpler and more natural to do. 3.5/PF (and 4e for that matter) definitely do get really bogged down at higher levels too when fights just have a billion effects and rolls going off all the time. I prefer combat in combat heavy tabletop games (like D&D) to have a solid foundation of balanced rules with a variety of viable options. I don't need to have a ton of flavor options since if a character concept isn't well supported you can always just reskin the stuff to be whatever you want in character without changing it mechanically. Andrast fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 12:15
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Zephro posted:I'm legit in two minds about this. You're definitely right and it does feel satisfying. On the other hand getting better at fighting things is one of the best ways to give a player the sense that their power is growing, particularly in RPGs without monster-scaling mechanics. When you get to the stage in ToB when you're chunking Vampires and Fire Giants left and right it really emphasises how strong the party has become. You can do both. Just don't have the players being shitfarmers fighting big rats at the beginning. There's a lot more threat scaling available even if you don't start with the players looking like weaklings.
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Oct 4, 2019 12:32
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Mordaedil posted:Jesus Christ, just play D:OS2 again instead of whining about not getting another game made right away. They will definitely make D:OS3 down the road, you don't have to be this stupidly selfish. That's no more selfish than you wanting BG3 to be what you prefer either Andrast fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 14:31
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frajaq posted:again, there's no reason to think Larian will be 100% faithful regarding 5E systems/rules Yeah we don't know anything yet and I hope they take a shitton of liberties.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:33
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Calico Heart posted:... I'm just hoping there's at least an option to make it turn based. Really not a fan of RTWP If it's RTWP I'm straight up not buying the game
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Oct 4, 2019 14:45
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Mordaedil posted:Man, I already expect the game to not be exactly what I want, since what I want is kinda out of their wheelhouse. I also expect the game to not be exactly what I want since it's a D&D game after all. All I hope for is that they make something that plays to their strengths instead of making the combat bad just because that's how it's always been in D&D crpgs Andrast fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 14:53
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Slashrat posted:Larian has already all but outright said they will. They’ve brought up in multiple interviews that d&d rules don’t necessarily work well when faithfully replicated in a video game, and got Mike Mearls to admit as much as well, which is pretty much all the groundwork they need to tweak the rules however they want Sounds great!
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Oct 4, 2019 15:17
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boo
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Oct 15, 2019 20:44
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Goa Tse-tung posted:oh my loving god if this is Stadia exclusive im gonna throw my loving monitor out the window It's not going to be
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Feb 15, 2020 19:36
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jarlywarly posted:Least we know there's going to be gameplay. gross
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Feb 18, 2020 17:14
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cuntman.net posted:if its rtwp i recommend you check out this thread for dumb baby tears, from me we can cry dumb baby tears together
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Feb 18, 2020 17:40
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CottonWolf posted:I am 99% sure it'll be turn-based, otherwise how are you going to put it on consoles? The same way you put Dragon age, pillars of eternity, etc. on consoles Hell, Baldur's gate is on consoles
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Feb 18, 2020 17:50
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Phlegmish posted:No matter how good it ends up being, it will never be good enough for some people because it doesn't make them feel the way they did when they played BG2 for the first time at age 14 This is me but replace BG2 with Original Sin 2 and 14 with 28
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Feb 18, 2020 17:56
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bike tory posted:Do people really have support strong preferences on gameplay type? There are great examples of rtwp, tb and also that KOTOR one-character-at-a-time style, it's not like that is going to determine whether the game is good or not I don't think a single RTWP combat system has ever been good, merely tolerable at best. It also matters a lot since these games are always full of combat.
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Feb 18, 2020 20:04
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Nemo2342 posted:The new Pathfinder game is going to have both RTWP and Turn Based options (after seeing how popular the turn based mod for Kingmaker was), so there's no reason BG3 couldn't do both. It's really difficult to make a system that works well with two entirely separate combat systems. It's hard enough to design a single good battle system, let alone two. Like, PoE2 does the transition ok and it's really obvious that the TB-system wasn't how it was originally designed.
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Feb 18, 2020 20:29
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Mzbundifund posted:That's not a RTWP problem, that's an information presentation problem. If pausing the game enabled say, little progress circles over each character showing when their current action would resolve with hover-over tooltips that would say exactly what the ability was and where it was targeted, then you wouldn't have that issue. In the old Baldur's Gate games enemies would start spellcasting and literally the only way to know spell they are doing is to wait until it goes off, or to have comprehensive metagame knowledge of their spell lists. Likewise Dragon's Age tried to have a UI that was functional with either a controller or mouse and keyboard, and since controller's can't do tooltips easily, it failed at being good at either. Having a billion trash fights is an awful design crutch and I wish RPGs would stop doing that. Having some easy fights is good to let you clown on some enemies once in a while but devs almost always just use them as godawful padding.
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Feb 18, 2020 20:38
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Chairchucker posted:Trash fights are good, actually. Crushing enemies is fun. I literally said in the post that having some easy fights is good
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Feb 18, 2020 21:25
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mitochondritom posted:No, absolutely not. It's one of the worst things about the Original Sin games. In two they tried to add more hand placed unique items, but they are still outclassed by randomly generated stuff you find in a box etc. There is, or was (patched out?) A huge problem with gear gating and if you were having trouble with an encounter re-equipping your team in 1 or 2 level higher gear was a great way to fix it. Yeah the insane stat scaling on items was awful. At least it was easily fixable with a mod.
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Feb 20, 2020 10:01
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I think 5e is boring as hell so the less faithful the game is to it the better imo
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Feb 20, 2020 14:10
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Oh god I feel the urge to do dumb edition warring coming over me, why did I even bring it up
Andrast fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 14:18
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Jesustheastronaut! posted:Man for something so incredibly flawed, on multiple levels, there seems to be very few actual examples. I played it more than once and thought it was great. I get you guys are invested in your other systems on an emotional level, but relax. I think it's more that there are more than 1000 pages of people arguing about this in Traditional Games so going into it in this thread is probably pretty pointless, especially since video games do not really resemble the tabletop environment that much even if the system might be based on a tabletop game. I just hope they give martial classes actually interesting abilities.
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Feb 20, 2020 14:53
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I don't think there is an RPG system that my friend group wouldn't have fun with
Andrast fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Feb 20, 2020 |
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Feb 20, 2020 15:13
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I'd play a Fiasco video game
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Feb 20, 2020 16:10
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bike tory posted:That definitely seems true of a tabletop experience, but also seems like it could lend itself well to video games. Video games are way more limited than tabletop in terms of flavour and flexibility, so making one that starts with a fairly well standardised system means that devs have a lot more ability to add their own flavour and systems without breaking the game. The risk I guess is that they don't adapt it much and you end up with a really generic game, kinda like what happened with NWN1. lmao at the 2nd edition ever being balanced
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Feb 20, 2020 20:25
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rope kid posted:Preparing for any 2nd Ed. fight when you're higher than 8th level: seems a bit underbuffed tbh
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Feb 20, 2020 21:28
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5e martials are just so boring to play, there's like nothing interesting you can do in combat with them
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Feb 21, 2020 16:39
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