Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Willie Tomg posted:

5e does away with that poo poo. They instakill with no death save if they bring you down to 0hp but most of their threat is wrapped up in stuns, mind control, and sniffing out the sneaky rogue with psionics. 5e ain't perfect, but it cuts out a ton of misery baked into previous editions.

Stuns are the misery. Nothing kills fun more than telling a player they can't play.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Pillars 2 is best in turn based.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Sombrerotron posted:

You can't rest everywhere in the BG series, and even if you do, you run the risk of being ambushed if you do it out in the wilds or in a dungeon.

It's still crap design. If you're beaten up enough that you want to rest, you're going to take a 20% chance of being ambushed over the 100% chance of going into a fight beaten up.

And "You can't rest here" just means "OK, I'll go outside and rest there then".

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Chomp8645 posted:

Honestly I don't think using the Baldur's Gate property in this instance is designed to reel in fans of the old games. Anyone who played Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 can instantly tell that any tie-in here is superficial at best and basically pointless. The real value is probably that there a lots of people who never played the old games but know vaguely of Baldur's Gate as an old-school RPG with lots of gamer cred.


Like if 20 years from now some rando developer announced "coming soon: Dark Souls 4!" with none of the characters, none of mechanics, and none the original creators, but at some point you visit Anor Londo. Nobody from today would give a poo poo, but lots of people who never played a minute of the games out today but heard of Dark Souls as some kind of ~crazy~ hardcore action-RPG game would be intrigued.

Thing is, fans of the old games are easy to hook. Even if you end up offending some of them - which is perfectly possible - they're going to buy the thing anyway so they can discuss it, if only to talk about how it doesn't compare to how they remember playing the originals when they were ten.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

CottonWolf posted:

Yep. This is the issue with turn-based in PoE 100%. Though I would say that's it's more of a general issue with turn-based combat in videogames when the combat doesn't take place in an instanced area.

There's an extra issue in PoE because the game wasn't designed to be turn-based, so you get to have minute-long combats with three beetles, or a single imp, which in RTwP would be over in seconds.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
If you were tweaking poo poo like arrow stacking to 999 why didn't you just make the obvious leap and make mundane ammo infinite

"Gosh, I ran out of arrows! How fun!" said nobody ever

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

wide stance posted:

Of course there's the classic not being able to leave an area without everyone holding hands.

I'm guessing that's there so you can't just leave a guy by the map edge, sneak another guy into the map and steal a bunch of stuff, then teleport the sneaking guy to safety by leaving the map with the first guy. Or maybe they want to lock you in sometimes. Stuff like that.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I don't like the way the dialogue is written. It feels much better to me to just have options like, "Hello, what are you doing here?" than "I greeted him and asked him what he was doing here".

It's jarring because the NPCs are speaking directly to you, but you don't speak directly back, you have this past-tense narrator thing going on.

I will say though, it didn't bug me that much in DOS 2, but I never felt that the main character's dialogue in any game where the main character had no set character (EG: Something like Neverwinter Nights where you make your own character as opposed to something like the Witcher where the main character is set in stone to some degree) has ever been much cop, because it has to be so generic.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Kinda wish it wasn't gonna be Early Access because that way I'll need to exercise a modicum of restraint to not snap it up and play the buggy, unfinished version early.

-----

I'll play an origin because that way my character won't be the most boring, characterless person in the room like they were in Dragon Age.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Nephthys posted:

Custom characters didn't get their own personal quests like the Origin guys, did they? If they got their own unique story in this game I think that's a big thing that could make them stand out or at least stand up to the Origin pc's.

I mean, the big problem with a character who can be any age, race and class is that you can't really do anything "personal" for them, because they can be literally any person.

With no defined character, any "unique story" a character can have will be utterly generic - it certainly won't stand up to stuff like, "You used to be a vampire's slave and you can eat your party members".

-----

I think in general my preference for main characters is how Mass Effect or Cyberpunk do it. You've got a job, a general age-range, a voice, and a name set in stone. Appearance and gender are negotiable. Also good for me is the Witcher way where you have a specific character to play, but I get how people can be turned off by having to play a character of a specific race and/or gender.

I'd even chuck out being able to choose a D&D class for your character - make them a custom one based on their Special Main Character Thing That Nobody Else Has, and then give the player something like three trees they can specialise or mix-and-match in, preferably with an eye to them acquiring all the abilities by the end of the game, but getting to pick which ones they get first. That way you don't get Pillar of Eternity Main Character Syndrome, where they're this special thing called a Watcher, but that only really comes up in dialogue and three crappy extra abilities that pale into insignificance next to your class powers. You also don't have to give the player a pet fighter to keep them alive because the player might have picked the class that's terrible at fighting alone.

Gort fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Feb 28, 2020

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Taear posted:

I feel like the best way around this is give you some pre-defined stories. Enough that'd cover MOST people and let them pick it.
I'd at least prefer that to the method they did in Divinity.

Resources, though. The more stories you put in your game, the worse each individual story will be. Most players probably won't see ONE of the stories all the way through, so why are we writing ten badly instead of one well?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Taear posted:

Being a Watcher felt like a really good way to do it. It comes up loads, it lets you do special stuff and people understand and potentially even fear it.
I guess I don't care much about what it does in combat.

Well, I guess take it from me that what it does in combat is underwhelming and could have been handled a lot better.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Taear posted:

Yes this is true. But they're already writing 6 badly (was that how many there were?) so why not let those 6 be less one specific character and more one specific arc?

That's certainly something you could do, but again, any story you write that could star literally anybody is going to be worse than a story that stars a specific person.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Taear posted:

Just have it not do anything in combat, the way it affects the story is what matters.

I disagree. The way it affects the story matters, but it should be the primary effect on that character in combat as well.

Geralt's a Witcher, so he fights like a Witcher, and the story treats him like a Witcher. The game would be worse if the story keeps telling you Geralt's a Witcher, but he fights exactly the same as any other fighter he meets.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Taear posted:

I thought they'd picked that for him, rather than he was set as it because as Megazver said it still seemed to say "pick race" on him.

Presumably if you press "Pick race" it takes you out of Astarion and into a custom character. Seem to recall DOS2 working that way.

-----

Some major buffs to mage hand in this compared to pen-and-paper.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Ither posted:

It's this.

If PoE2 had allowed Eder or Pallegina to romanceable. It would have been sold many times better.

They didn't have the budget for 3D boning animations though

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Lambert posted:

Default Shep looked way better than any of those uncanny custom creations.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Nephthys posted:

It was really easy to mess up your custom Sheps face in the first Mass Effect (I can't remember ME2). I restarted multiple times because I kept ending up with lips that stuck out a bit too much or a wonky chin or something which you wouldn't be able to notice until you can see them from the side or talking.

This was exactly my experience, and why I just use the default faces in most games instead of mucking with sliders.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

multijoe posted:

Yeah, the irony in DA2's button-awesome gimmick is for the vast majority of time you're not pushing buttons, you're watching auto-attacks whittle down health bars, which turns out is still pretty lame no matter how extra you make the animations

My main memory of DA2 is pressing a button and watching the fully-armoured enemy I was fighting turn into a bald naked man whose limbs have all come off

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Avalerion posted:

This train of thoughts could apply to anything though. Do you also expect a dumb fighter to charge in blindly instead of making sound tactical decisions? Or roll int to figure out the villain's plot instead of expecting the players to do it themselves?

It's a bit of a double standard if fighting is completely governed by your characters stats and rules but the rules for talking and thinking are handwaved away.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
I crunched my way through PoE1 and bounced off 2.

Both games are okay, nothing I'd recommend people rush out and play.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
My big criticism of Tyranny is that while it has a number of major plot branches you can go down, it's quite strict about locking you into one, and out of the others. In my case:

I wanted to go with the resistance, but in one of the early chapters I was asked if I wanted to side with Elite Racist Evil Faction or Serial Killer Evil Faction and I figured I'd keep the elitists on side for now until I was given the option to go with the resistance. Little did I know this meant I was Elite Racist Evil for the rest of the game and if I wanted to go with the resistance there were specific dialogue choices or side quests I'd missed earlier on, and by the point I realised I was locked in I was so far into the game I didn't want to go back for them.

Still an excellent game though.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
When I played the Baldur's Gate games I'd just save regularly in case someone got killed. It was usually less effort to quick load than to use raise dead or whatever.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Kill the door

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Yeah, I didn't like the magic armour/physical armour split in DOS2 - it lead to weird poo poo where my physical-damage-focused party would set the ground on fire beneath the enemies by blowing up a barrel of oil, but none of the damage mattered because fire damage hits magic armour.

I get the point of the "you can't crowd control an enemy until you've removed their armour" mechanic, but I never saw the point in giving characters separate magic and physical armour pools. Feels like you could get the same, "Target this guy with magic, not physical" benefits by just giving the enemy magic vulnerability.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Arrrthritis posted:

I liked the physical/magical split in armor. I played the game as 2-person co-op, with my characters being physical and focused on scoundrel with my partner handling more of the caster-y types of characters, and it worked out pretty well. There were certain encounters where my characters shined and other encounters where their characters shined - it made for a pretty good experience overall, and better than D:OS1 where a good majority of encounters boiled down to casting rain and then thunder.

You can get that experience by just giving some enemies magic or physical resistance, though, like pretty much every RPG does.

I notice Larian are not doing it in this game, so I don't think we'll see the mechanic again.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Yeah, Alpha Protocol was brilliant. I want more good spy games.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Mailer posted:

I never played in a group that used the adversarial model Gygax was so fond of. It was always an unspoken agreement that you wouldn't run this campaign off the rails and the DM wouldn't craft situations that required an in-house copier to constantly print more character sheets. Playing strictly by the rules, especially in the case of everything up to and including 2e, is a really bad way to have fun with five friends on a Wednesday night.

Yeah, that old model was very much based on, "The dungeon was written by someone else, the DM is merely here to referee it and the dice fall as they may and what happens happens" rather than the, "DM's written a story for the players to experience and the dice are there to provide twists and tension" that I'm used to.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
My issue with it is that I know I'm only going to play the game through once, so it might as well be the version that's had the roughest edges filed off instead of one that's full of bugs.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Miftan posted:

If you do play early access, will your save files transfer to the full game?

I wouldn't expect them to - patches often break savegames.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Sarevok killed his fair share of dudes, but his "create an iron shortage to start a political crisis" plan was kinda clever at least

The "leave a letter with each of my subordinates explaining who the next guy up the ladder to kill is" part of the plan was not so good however

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

BrianWilly posted:

I heard there was something horny happening in this game

brain vore

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Xerophyte posted:

You don't even need to leave the safe confines of Baldur's Gate games, since this happens if you romance Aerie in BG2:


Doesn't give useful bonuses though, so clearly not worth it.

DONE

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
If anything the success of the Early Access launch shows the power that the Baldur's Gate brand still holds.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Resting for eight hours every five steps is very Baldur's Gate, admittedly.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
is there something specific Drow did that makes everyone hate them or is it just the ongoing slave raids thing

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
How's the combat in this compare to Divinity Original Sin 2?

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

change my name posted:

I got my friend hooked on the EA this weekend and she was surprised that any of the characters are supposed to be evil. They've toned down the rear end in a top hat-ishness a lot since the first launch

Huh. That's not the kind of thing that usually gets patched in games.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
The thing that bugs me about Larian's approach to Early Access is the way they only give their testers access to the first chunk of the game. It's generally agreed that the first bit of Divinity Original Sin 2 is much better put-together than the other two-thirds of the game, and I'm worried the same thing will happen here.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Miftan posted:

I have the same sort of worry, but Larian has acknowledged all the stuff I think made the later parts of the game bad and are very good at listening to feedback and learning from their mistakes. If the later part of BG3 isn't as good, at least it will be in new and innovative ways! Plus Divinity Original Sin 2 was still a 9/10 game at the end of the day.

D'you have a link to that? I'm interested to see if their list lines up with mine.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply