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Jazerus
May 24, 2011



i guess i should say that it IS possible to back yourself into a corner mechanically with some party comps, though, depending on your class selections. you can beat the game with literally any combination but it's definitely true that some have more synergy than others. an all-light duran/kevin/charlotte party is functionally immortal but you're really going to be wishing for better damage, for example.

essentially you want healing, buffs, debuffs, sabers, physical attacks, and magic attacks, but no party can supply all of the above effectively so you try to cover as many bases as you can

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




Spring Break My Heart posted:

Using Angela was irritating because spells took forever and were hard capped at 999 damage for enemies with tens of thousands of HP.

Did they also trigger auto-counters like specials eventually did? I want to say "yes," but it's been forever since I played.

Jazerus posted:

i guess i should say that it IS possible to back yourself into a corner mechanically with some party comps, though, depending on your class selections. you can beat the game with literally any combination but it's definitely true that some have more synergy than others. an all-light duran/kevin/charlotte party is functionally immortal but you're really going to be wishing for better damage, for example.

essentially you want healing, buffs, debuffs, sabers, physical attacks, and magic attacks, but no party can supply all of the above effectively so you try to cover as many bases as you can

The developers had enough foresight to make key things like healing, sabers, and several buffs available through items, so it really is just about what cast of characters you'd like to drag along. Nothing's hard enough to necessitate min-maxing it out, unless they've upped the difficulty dramatically.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



Holy poo poo who gave Charlotte this hilariously bad toddler accent? Glad I didnít stick her on my team!

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Kevin doesn't talk like a caveman, but Charlotte talks exactly wike Ewmew Fudd.

So yeah, I went with the all-guys team to do something different from the caster-heavy setup I usually went with before. I'll see how that works out until I can class change and get healers.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Don't worry my friends. I will be your shield.

Fallen Rib

Jazerus posted:

for people new to SD3/Trials:

most of the game is similar no matter what your party is, but the very beginning and the last dungeon are determined by your main character. the difficulty of the last dungeon varies (slightly) depending on your path

hawk and lise share a story. it's about witches and demons. their final dungeon is considered the hardest but hawk and lise are characters that routinely break the game across their knee so you should be fine
angela and duran share a story. it's about knights, sorcerers, and dragons. this is the middle-difficulty path but any party with angela is extremely strong so you're probably fine
kevin and charlotte share a story. It's about werewolves and clowns. this is easy by default because you're not going to lose with kevin or charlotte in the party

i feel like I'm doing duran a disservice but he is kind of the odd man out since his shields don't function (unless that was fixed) and he's strictly outclassed by kevin otherwise. any party composition is fine though - just keep in mind that your main character is the one that really matters. it's kinda nice to pair the characters that share a story together because they will both get relevant dialogue sometimes, but it's nothing huge especially for kevin and charlotte who aren't the most articulate folks anyway

Is Duran that screwed? I played Hawk years ago and I wanted to play another character.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006




Unlucky7 posted:

Is Duran that screwed? I played Hawk years ago and I wanted to play another character.

His main problem was that shields didn't work, and his Dark transformation was consequently just a shittier Kevin with a couple of saber spells. If they fixed his shield, then he'll be a more defensive Kevin, which isn't terrible. Again, the game's not so hard that picking a suboptimal character is going to make you want to rip your hair out.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Unlucky7 posted:

Is Duran that screwed? I played Hawk years ago and I wanted to play another character.

not at all, just don't play his light classes because their gimmick is potentially still busted. his dark/light is a physical attacker with the widest variety of sabers of any class and dark/dark is the second-beefiest physical attacker in the game with somewhat fewer sabers

being bad at attacking when compared to kevin is still very good by any other standard

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


I mean, you could still use Light Duran as your healer, and he'll still hit like a truck.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



Even if the glitches still exist, any combo of classes is perfectly capable of beating the game. Even a combo with no magical healing can get by with items no problem, as they all just duplicate spells anyway.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



Spring Break My Heart posted:

Is Trials confirmed to be Switch exclusive?

The remake is coming out on PS4, PC, and Switch. The original is on the Collection of Mana which is Switch only.

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



Also is it just me, or does everyone else also always change the stereo option to wide?

timp
Sep 18, 2007

Everything is in my control


Lipstick Apathy

I mentioned this jokingly before but there is a LOT of exhaustively extensive research that's been done on this game that can be found in various GameFAQs guides. Some of the longest GameFAQs guides you've ever seen.

That is, unless they've tweaked things a bit for this game which, as others have mentioned, would be awesome because it's straight up broken in some regards.

Already noticed a few minor differences up to the first boss, but it's essentially the exact same game for all intents and purposes. Looking forward to playing along with everyone and comparing parties! I went Angela Kevin Charlotte for this playthrough because I anticipate using Duran and maybe Hawk and Lise (if that's still possible) for the remake.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

The guide I'm reading says they had extreme trouble with Jewel Eater until they hit level 15. I just beat him at level 9 very easily with a no-caster party.

I'm not sure if the guide writer was very bad or if they adjusted the difficulty.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



Iíve never had to grind in this game at all so that sounds like the FAQ writerís problem. Keep pace with the enemies and youíll do fine.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



Rand Brittain posted:

The guide I'm reading says they had extreme trouble with Jewel Eater until they hit level 15. I just beat him at level 9 very easily with a no-caster party.

I'm not sure if the guide writer was very bad or if they adjusted the difficulty.

a normal player will hit level 18 while going after their fifth or sixth mana spirit

grinding to 15 to fight jewel eater is insane. the most grinding i've ever done was to get to 18 in rolante to class change early for the cool toys but even that's pretty overboard

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)

Hot drat a Mana SA thread

Riesz is God Tier

Gyoru
Jul 13, 2004




Looks like someone has been able to dump the SD3 ROM from the new collection. None of the existing IPS patches (hardtype/bug fix patch etc) work on it.

also i don't care how op he is kevin owns bones

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


Shoenin posted:

Hot drat a Mana SA thread

Riesz is God Tier

We need a SaGa thread to match since they just got two games announced for the Switch along with SaGa with the name filed off Last Remnant.

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)

sure why not, SaGabros deserve some good times as well!








good times for all! These are joyous and wonderful occasions!

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument



Crap. I started a game with Reisse/Kevin/Charlotte but I don't know if I can put up with Charlotte's uWu bullshit.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Don't worry my friends. I will be your shield.

Fallen Rib

Played through a bit of each.

Good lord, I had forgotten how good Trials of Mana looked. And the localization is surprisingly good too! Started with Duran, Angela, and Kevin.

Question about SoM: Does that starting village get flattened at some point? Because they are all dicks.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


No they are dicks to the bitter end

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Don't worry my friends. I will be your shield.

Fallen Rib

Allarion posted:

No they are dicks to the bitter end

Well I can only hope they never appear again then.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


On a sidenote, I really need to resist making Carlie parties just cause I like having 3 people for the first boss.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Don't worry my friends. I will be your shield.

Fallen Rib

Also, FFA has some surprisingly good music. And actually plays pretty decently, like a poor mans Crystalis

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Gyoru posted:

Looks like someone has been able to dump the SD3 ROM from the new collection. None of the existing IPS patches (hardtype/bug fix patch etc) work on it.

also i don't care how op he is kevin owns bones

Apparently they extensively edited the rom to allow for longer names and to fit the translation in the game.

But the whole thing is still able to run on an original SNES.

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


Unlucky7 posted:

Also, FFA has some surprisingly good music. And actually plays pretty decently, like a poor mans Crystalis

I still love the final boss theme from the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTFclvgbHFc

And here the Sword of Man and Adventure of Mana version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4GAlUawgbw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Qqf6OzRvE

Melomane Mallet
Oct 11, 2012

I'm bad; I'm just not born that way.

Super hype for the PS4 version when it comes out (don't have a switch yet). Also, Star Lancer!Riesz/Swordmaster!Duran/Nightblade!Hawkeye party is best party.

Rirse
May 6, 2006

by R. Guyovich


Man I wish the Adventure of Mana release was ported off the Vita. I still got a Vita and it was fun there, but it a shame it just stuck there. Surprised they didn't put it out on the PS4/Steam with the Secret of Mana remake.

Also this Mana Collections mark the third time buying Secret of Mana...in a course of a week! I bought a used SNES copy from a goon since I am getting back into buying carts, then I had leftover PSN credits so I bought the on sale PS4 remake, and now this.

Beefstew
Oct 30, 2010

I told you that story so I could tell you this one...


Rirse posted:

I still love the final boss theme from the game.


Don't y'all be sleeping on Courage and Pride from the Heart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9nfoC5r6x0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONwQoD7geaU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRJEochqy6s

Gulping Again
Mar 10, 2007
It's ham, Jonathan! Do you understand? Ham!


you're not a real secret of mana fan unless you know the struggle that is getting every weapon to upgrade level nine and realizing that some of the level 8 versions were better

and then it didn't actually matter because if you did the glitch to refight the mantis ant you just straight up have the Mana Sword and it just does way too much damage to be legal

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)

Because were finally getting SD3 over Japan legally, I decided to finally finish something that forced me to play a lovely game, but it was worth it.
Cant wait to see what new info we get on the remake

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007


Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the mouth.



Alright! After the Secret of Mana remake I decided to pick up this collection to support localization of old games. I decided my party to be

Becky (Riesz)
Stacy (Angela)
Chad (Kevin)

I have no idea what all these classes and stuff are or how much they're going to matter in the long run, but i'm definitely going to turn into a valkyrie later on.

Shoenin
May 29, 2013

Everynight I wake up Screaming.
(and beating the dragon)

You have Kevin and Riesz, and are using Angela with Riesz. You got a solid team.

timp
Sep 18, 2007

Everything is in my control


Lipstick Apathy

I put a bit more effort into the OP, but if anybody wants to talk about any of the games released from 2000 or later, feel free and I can add descriptions.

Rand Brittain posted:

I cannot abide the disrespect in this thread for Legend of Mana, which is the best game in the series. Okay, it may be completely insane, and it may have some subsystems that make no sense (crafting is so in-depth that literally no sane human will ever figure out how to make anything useful), but it's just full of whimsical charm and I can't help but love it.

I know exactly what you mean. I didn't know anybody else who played Legend of Mana when I was a kid and, because I had so much love for Secret of Mana and SD3, I felt an intense ownership of the game and it definitely still holds a place in my heart. (As I said I think the soundtrack is incredible and I still go back and listen to some of those tracks even today)

But when it came time to summarize the game in two sentences or so, well...I stand by my writeup. Great audio and visuals, poor gameplay and story. Also how bullshit was it that you literally got locked out of a couple quests if you didn't know to plant one location next to another one?

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


Is the SoM one still the port of the mobile game like it was on the PC?

Genuinely floored by the insane cost though. Like I remember buying SoM new for £30 and that was a LONG time ago.

timp
Sep 18, 2007

Everything is in my control


Lipstick Apathy

Taear posted:

Is the SoM one still the port of the mobile game like it was on the PC?

Genuinely floored by the insane cost though. Like I remember buying SoM new for £30 and that was a LONG time ago.

Not exactly sure if I understand what you're asking but the Secret of Mana included in the Collection of Mana seems to be a direct port from the SNES version as far as I can tell

I agree with you on the price, $40 felt a little steep for three old games, two of which I've basically already beaten about 3 times each. But as another poster mentioned above, I eventually just chalked it up to supporting the release of good classic games. I played SD3 for free for many years and hopefully at least some part of my $40 will go to the original developers.

Raiad
Feb 1, 2005

Without the law, there wouldn't be lawyers.




remember when they rereleased chrono trigger for the ds at full price and used the lackluster sales as the reason they donít want to bother making a sequel

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



Rirse posted:

Man I wish the Adventure of Mana release was ported off the Vita. I still got a Vita and it was fun there, but it a shame it just stuck there. Surprised they didn't put it out on the PS4/Steam with the Secret of Mana remake.

I mean you can technically buy it on your phone if you want to see what hell is like. But it only barely got ported off of mobile because that team only then managed to have decent enough tools to port stuff to it from Unity.

Gulping Again posted:

and then it didn't actually matter because if you did the glitch to refight the mantis ant you just straight up have the Mana Sword and it just does way too much damage to be legal

You don't need any of that poo poo anyway, just because you can abuse the Lunar buff until you can casually crit 999s everywhere.

timp posted:

I put a bit more effort into the OP, but if anybody wants to talk about any of the games released from 2000 or later, feel free and I can add descriptions.

Here's the writeups I was doing on them...

Sword of Mana
A remake of the first game with some sprite designs similar to Trials/SD3. While I liked it at the time the main thing I think it screws up over the original is how bloated it is, thereís a ton of pointless dialog that doesnít make the original gameís story any more interesting or complete, it just wastes your time. Itís also really really easy.

Children of Mana
The first in SquareísÖ well, failed World of Mana project, itís almost like they were going for something closer to a diablo game with getting loot from enemies and the repetitive nature of dungeons, except thereís not really a lot of loot or a fun gameplay loop going on. Also pretends to have the physics engine of itís console counterpart, which ends up being really annoying when youíre getting comboed byÖ barrels in the environment.

Dawn of Mana
This is a game where you have to scare monsters to attack them by flinging physics objects their way, where itís split into discrete areas you canít go back to, and where your level resets every time you go to the next stage. It uses the havok physics engine judiciously, and has a stage where you fight a wizard in a crumbling tower. Most people didnít like it because it plays like a slower and janky version of Kingdom Hearts, but it looked so good that Koichi Ishii named it Seiken Densetsu 4.

Heroes of Mana
An RTS of all things that Iíve never mustered up the interest to play past the tutorial, itís just not what I come to this series for. Maybe itís a good game, but I donít hear anybody talk about the FFXII spinoff that plays similarly and came out around the same time, either.

Phone Games
Friend, Circle, Rise
Heck if I know, they never came out over here and never will thanks to the realities of the phone market.

quote:

But when it came time to summarize the game in two sentences or so, well...I stand by my writeup. Great audio and visuals, poor gameplay and story. Also how bullshit was it that you literally got locked out of a couple quests if you didn't know to plant one location next to another one?

I'd just say it's one of the most open-ended JRPGs that have been made thanks to it's loose quest design, and think its weird beat-em-up MMO battle system is loving cool even if a little undercooked.

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Cipher Pol 9
Oct 9, 2006




Legend of Mana is batshit but completely beautiful and endlessly charming. I played it so many times and probably never saw half of what it had to offer.

Also I heard the Secret of Mana remake was kind of bad? Did anyone play it?

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