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sigher
Apr 22, 2008

Down the Rabbit Hole.


God the Class 4 strikes are so loving anime I love it.

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jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




I donít know the math but it appears that Angelaís heart-kiss thing (the class strike) is so much more powerful than Duranís class strikes.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

The plan here is to reinvent Rin Tin Tin as a modern action star, the John Wick of dogs.


Duran's class 2 dark Cs send capable of taking down any group of mobs in the game

MH Knights
Aug 4, 2007



Glint Slash (LL-Paladin) was my go to for clearing trash packs. Most mobs died to the first hit and nothing lived past the second. The animation was also a couple seconds shorter than Kevin's DD CS.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Kevinís light CS2 is basically the same as Duranís dark CS2 and is part of what makes Divine Fist so good. Unfortunately Divine Fistís C3 is pretty bad, since it takes forever to fire, doesnít track and can miss.

Iíve heard several people say Paladinís CS3 is really good and Iím going for a CS spam team with Paladin, Divine Fist and Rogue now, so hopefully that will be fun. Knightís damage output with Counter 1 and 2 has been surprisingly good, actually.

John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

The plan here is to reinvent Rin Tin Tin as a modern action star, the John Wick of dogs.


Finally finished my third run and did Hawkeyes class 4 item quest, the only one I have done yet.

My first run was Riesz and I didn't use Hawkeye, so he never got to be a character in the party on his own story path. Is there anything interesting I'm missing in that case?

Crystalgate
Dec 26, 2012


jokes posted:

I donít know the math but it appears that Angelaís heart-kiss thing (the class strike) is so much more powerful than Duranís class strikes.
While I don't know the math either, class strikes are based on the sum of attack and magic attack, so it's not that strange if Angela's exceeds Duran's.

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



I'm going kinda slow and just got to the sanctuary of Mana. I've had the Class 3 tutorial pop up literally 3 times telling me to find ??? seeds and I have no idea where it wants me to look or what drops them. Am I supposed to have a stack by now because it really wants me to know I can class change now

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!


ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Am I supposed to have a stack by now because it really wants me to know I can class change now

Nope. They are first accessible only after the sanctuary, as a really rare drop from enemies. In addition, 6 of the seven new dungeons (not in Gusthall since you've already been there) have a ??? seed in a chest.

If you want to rush, explore each dungeon (fleeing from enemies if you want to keep your level down) until you have al 6 chest seeds and grow them. There should be some RNG protection giving you all 6 possible items with no dupes from the six seeds, but apparently sometimes it doesn't work.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

^^ The seeds roll for their item when you pick them up, not when you plant them. If you have an item or the unsprouted seed for that item in your inventory then you won't get a dupe for any of those items during the seed drop roll. However, if you go into NG+ with some unsprouted seeds then they get re-rolled for your new party with no dupe protection and all bets are off. Also, following on from those anti-dupe mechanics, if you consume an item to perform a class change then you may get another instance of that item when you pick up another seed, so don't class change anybody until you have all the items you need.

nah the next part of the game is where you start getting them, I don't think there's any way to obtain additional seeds before you do the Sanctuary stuff and then the dungeon after that.

Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 17, 2020

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend



Fair enough, also reading about builds people are going for has me nervous

Went Hawk Dark, Charlotte Light and Angela Dark and I haven't put any thought in anything outside that so vv

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012



You really don't have to put much if any thought into it. I think all the seed posting is people trying to get onto class 3 as soon as they possibly can without progressing too far in the Benevodon part of the game so they can play with that aspect of the game sooner.

I ended up pretty much just picking the first classes that were available via the seeds I found and ended up doing fine.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes




Or changing classes. Changing classes is a bitch.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!


ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

Fair enough, also reading about builds people are going for has me nervous

Went Hawk Dark, Charlotte Light and Angela Dark and I haven't put any thought in anything outside that so vv

All caster team. I'd go Sage on Charlotte for better light elemental magic access than what Dark Angela has. The AoE sabers would be a bit wasted but High Cleric gets saint saber instead so whatever.

Either upgrade for Angela and Hawke should be interchangeable, but I'd go Nightblade with him for the passive mag-def down.

Buy Walnuts and Sahaugin Scales in bulk, make sure everyone is maxed on INT training and you're good.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

https://trialsofmana.seiyria.com/

Somebody made a nice character planner here to enable you to experiment with building your ultimate Kevin or Angela carry squad or whatever.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


I feel sad that I didn't do Light with Angela because Ancient Curse definitely wasn't very good on very many boss fights. It's too easy to interrupt and MOST bosses just loving move out of the way anyway.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


If I'm not going to NG+ for my third playthrough, is there any achievement-related reason to go through Anise's dungeon for a second time after obtaining class 4?

Edit: oh right, the level 99 stuff. I should do that while I have Faerie's CS.

Sacrificial Toast
Nov 5, 2009



Taear posted:

I feel sad that I didn't do Light with Angela because Ancient Curse definitely wasn't very good on very many boss fights. It's too easy to interrupt and MOST bosses just loving move out of the way anyway.

Worked great for me. You've just gotta time it for some of them. Biggest problem was the crimson wizard just teleporting all over the drat place.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

This is gonna be fun!
Or else!


What is a "trap" when it comes to Hawkeye's abilities? Like he has an ability that increases trap damage by 25% and another that gives a boost to the CS gauge when a trap is successful, but I don't see what a trap actually is. Is that just his name for spells?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

A lady after my own Soul-Heart.

Poque posted:

What is a "trap" when it comes to Hawkeye's abilities? Like he has an ability that increases trap damage by 25% and another that gives a boost to the CS gauge when a trap is successful, but I don't see what a trap actually is. Is that just his name for spells?

Specifically Arrow Rain and Spike are traps, maybe Shuriken is too but I don't think he gets that spell and that ability at the same time.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010


Poque posted:

What is a "trap" when it comes to Hawkeye's abilities? Like he has an ability that increases trap damage by 25% and another that gives a boost to the CS gauge when a trap is successful, but I don't see what a trap actually is. Is that just his name for spells?

It's just Light Hawkeye's name for his (attack) spells, just like Dark Hawkeye's spells are Ninjitsu. All of Rogue Hawkeye's spells as well as all of Nomad Hawkeye's attack spells (IE, not the buffs or utility magic) count.

Blackbelt Bobman
Jul 17, 2004

I don't need friends! I've been
manipulatin' you since the start!
All so I can something,
something X-Blade!




Poque posted:

What is a "trap" when it comes to Hawkeye's abilities? Like he has an ability that increases trap damage by 25% and another that gives a boost to the CS gauge when a trap is successful, but I don't see what a trap actually is. Is that just his name for spells?

His Ranger/Rogue spells are traps. The ones where he throws items, basically. Spikes, arrow rain, silver dart, grumpkin, all of those. They use Luck to determine damage and hit against defense.

The spells Nomad gets are spells and go off INT. And by spells I mean poison bubble.

yook
Mar 11, 2001



Finished NG+ with everyone at level 99, killing Anise in about a minute each time with a record of 52 seconds.

One shot each of the crystals with their weakness from Angelaís tier 2 spells while Charlotte sets up black curse on anise and uses a magic buff item on Angela. Angela spams dark force while anise teleports all over the drat place since itís one of the few things that will actually hit her consistently. Once anise changes, spam ancient curse until anise dies and Charlotte spams heals at the same time so Angela can tank sitting in crap to keep casting. Angela had the skill to avoid knock back while casting, but I donít know it it mattered. Oh, and Duran was there too, I guess

Taear posted:

I feel sad that I didn't do Light with Angela because Ancient Curse definitely wasn't very good on very many boss fights. It's too easy to interrupt and MOST bosses just loving move out of the way anyway.
Most bosses seemed bulky enough to work for me. She gets higher tier spells to hit elemental weaknesses for everything except moon and wood if you need something faster and itís not a bad idea to hot key both to use based on what the boss is doing.

Most annoying thing was grinding through regular enemies since they could spread out and some of them either didnít have an element weakness to exploit and/or had armor that was annoying to knock off. Angela probably averaged faster, but I think nightblade Hawkeye had fewer annoyances. gently caress the crawlers in anises stockade.

Son of a Vondruke!
Aug 3, 2012

More than Star Citizen will ever be.



ThisIsACoolGuy posted:

I'm going kinda slow and just got to the sanctuary of Mana. I've had the Class 3 tutorial pop up literally 3 times telling me to find ??? seeds and I have no idea where it wants me to look or what drops them. Am I supposed to have a stack by now because it really wants me to know I can class change now

I got all my seeds right after rescuing fairy. There's an enemy in the Woods of Wandara that drops them. Queeneebs, they're these flying bee women. I just ground those until I had all the seeds I needed. It was honestly kinda boring, but it didn't take that long.

Nephrite
Aug 18, 2006
[img]https://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/newbie.gif[/img]



Lipstick Apathy

Son of a Vondruke! posted:

I got all my seeds right after rescuing fairy. There's an enemy in the Woods of Wandara that drops them. Queeneebs, they're these flying bee women. I just ground those until I had all the seeds I needed. It was honestly kinda boring, but it didn't take that long.

Note if you plan on doing this: You need to have your Seed Box to level 4 or they won't drop any ??? seeds.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


Nephrite posted:

Note if you plan on doing this: You need to have your Seed Box to level 4 or they won't drop any ??? seeds.

This is absolutely not true. You get a higher drop chance but I've never had a seed box at 4 and I've got seeds from them in two different games.

The only issue with grinding the seeds off them is that you end up levelling quite a lot, like I was level 47 or so by the time I had six.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION





Toilet Rascal

Nephrite posted:

Note if you plan on doing this: You need to have your Seed Box to level 4 or they won't drop any ??? seeds.

This isn't true. They'll drop them at a lower level, just at a less rate. I did mine while my box was at level 3.

Nephrite
Aug 18, 2006
[img]https://forumimages.somethingawful.com/images/newbie.gif[/img]



Lipstick Apathy

I didn't get a single one until mine was level 4 from the Queeneebs.

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



I think it's also a function of your level. Also you can try to get lucky and just comb the dungeons for the guaranteed ??? seeds. I've never really felt the need to grind for them though since you don't lose anything by waiting to change, except perhaps your combat effectiveness.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

This is gonna be fun!
Or else!


I couldn't get any from Queenebs, I got my six from 5 chests and one dragon drop in the Gemstone Valley (which I will not call Daria)

SettingSun
Aug 10, 2013



I still call a lot of the places by their fan translation names. Gemstone Valley Dorian rolls off the tongue really well.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

This is gonna be fun!
Or else!


SettingSun posted:

I still call a lot of the places by their fan translation names. Gemstone Valley Dorian rolls off the tongue really well.

Ha, I legit don't even remember it being called Dorian. I just thought it was Gemstone Valley and the new one just threw in an extra word for funsies.

Having finished up at the Dragon's Maw, I'm nearly done with this playthrough. Trying to decide if I want to New Game + for my second playthrough or just go through normally again. Duran is the only repeat character I expect to have - if I did NG+, does this mean I'd have two level 1 chars and Duran at like level 70?

Poque fucked around with this message at 14:00 on May 18, 2020

LGD
Sep 25, 2004




SettingSun posted:

I think it's also a function of your level. Also you can try to get lucky and just comb the dungeons for the guaranteed ??? seeds. I've never really felt the need to grind for them though since you don't lose anything by waiting to change, except perhaps your combat effectiveness.

yeah, just make sure you save before opening chests and once you've identified the chest with the ??? seed in a given dungeon it's typically pretty easy to grab it, magic rope out, and then summon flammie and go check it at the entrance to the mana holy land

if you get a seed that you don't want/need just keep reloading until you do

this is kind of obnoxious but imo is generally going to be faster than grinding and lets you fully class change your team before you fight the third benevodon

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


I walked between the group of four and the mushrooms in the forest for about an hour and got four, I'd already got one from a chest and then got another from another chest in my second game.
They don't drop often but promoting is super important and makes a huge difference.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

LGD posted:

if you get a seed that you don't want/need just keep reloading until you do

From what I've heard, that one's a bust. What the ???-seed grows into is determined upon opening the chest, not growing the seed.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008




Buglord

SettingSun posted:

I think it's also a function of your level. Also you can try to get lucky and just comb the dungeons for the guaranteed ??? seeds. I've never really felt the need to grind for them though since you don't lose anything by waiting to change, except perhaps your combat effectiveness.

It's probably a function of enemy levels actually, and those are a function of how many benevedons you've beaten. Character levels wouldn't make sense since those can be wildly uneven, like in a NG+ run with a level 99 character and low level everyone else).

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005



Nap Ghost

Taear posted:

I walked between the group of four and the mushrooms in the forest for about an hour and got four, I'd already got one from a chest and then got another from another chest in my second game.
They don't drop often but promoting is super important and makes a huge difference.

I saved at the Dolan statue, jumped down to the downstairs exit, ran into the group of three silver wolves, oneshot them with a level 2 CS, then if they didn't drop a ??? seed I immediately reloaded from the statue. I did this for something like an hour and got a single seed in the process.

Peoples' mileage seems to extremely vary.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!


Sapozhnik posted:

I saved at the Dolan statue, jumped down to the downstairs exit, ran into the group of three silver wolves, oneshot them with a level 2 CS, then if they didn't drop a ??? seed I immediately reloaded from the statue. I did this for something like an hour and got a single seed in the process.

Peoples' mileage seems to extremely vary.

Uh, silver wolves? Dolan statue?

We're talking about the bees in the Woods of Wandara. They're the ones who drop the seeds (or at least appear to have the highest drop rates)

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


I haven't bothered grinding for ??? seeds, even on my third NG+ playthrough. The chest ones have given me what I needed for people who haven't class changed yet and it's hard to get RNG screwed when you're bringing in 21 from the last playthrough.

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orcane
Jun 13, 2012



Fun Shoe

Silver wolverines in the tower were mentioned as a good source of farmable ??? seeds when the game came out and I had great success doing just that, but I would never savescum a single spawn - you can run circles and switch levels in the tower to kill a ton of them, especially with the more encounters ability.

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