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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Spring Break My Heart posted:

Using Angela was irritating because spells took forever and were hard capped at 999 damage for enemies with tens of thousands of HP.

Did they also trigger auto-counters like specials eventually did? I want to say "yes," but it's been forever since I played.

Jazerus posted:

i guess i should say that it IS possible to back yourself into a corner mechanically with some party comps, though, depending on your class selections. you can beat the game with literally any combination but it's definitely true that some have more synergy than others. an all-light duran/kevin/charlotte party is functionally immortal but you're really going to be wishing for better damage, for example.

essentially you want healing, buffs, debuffs, sabers, physical attacks, and magic attacks, but no party can supply all of the above effectively so you try to cover as many bases as you can

The developers had enough foresight to make key things like healing, sabers, and several buffs available through items, so it really is just about what cast of characters you'd like to drag along. Nothing's hard enough to necessitate min-maxing it out, unless they've upped the difficulty dramatically.

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Unlucky7 posted:

Is Duran that screwed? I played Hawk years ago and I wanted to play another character.

His main problem was that shields didn't work, and his Dark transformation was consequently just a shittier Kevin with a couple of saber spells. If they fixed his shield, then he'll be a more defensive Kevin, which isn't terrible. Again, the game's not so hard that picking a suboptimal character is going to make you want to rip your hair out.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



timp posted:

Thanks for the heads up! I found this rip of what I assume is just the Trials of Mana part of that presentation, get it while it's still hot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmnp-apjTjk

Really cool how they decided to expand the combat system to be more action oriented. I'll probably pick this up whenever it comes out on PC.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



timp posted:

But yeah man, this soundtrack...

I actually think SoE's soundtrack is one of Soule's best works. He got pigeonholed over time into doing fairly generic-sounding orchestral high fantasy music, but I vastly prefer the moodier/atmospheric tone that SoE strikes.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Item Getter posted:

I'm disappointed that the remake won't have multiplayer, especially since they have hopefully changed the really long spell animations that pause the game and are the one annoying thing about multiplayer if your partner is playing Angela.

It's a genuine shame, especially since the reworked mechanics make it vastly more favorable for a multiplayer environment. Still, I can't blame them: it's likely only something a niche part of the audience would play, and it adds in a bunch of development complications and additional testing on a product that's already seeing very significant changes from the original.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Airspace posted:

Started with Duran and Angela, and I have to say, the voice acting is amazing.

I appreciate that they showed basically zero restraint and played everyone's personalities as straight and stock as possible. Angela yelling out poo poo like, "It's too gross and dark in this cave!" or, "I love shopping!" adds enormously to the game's charm; it's anime as hell and takes pride in that.

The demo feels like a love letter to the original game without necessarily worrying about breaking hearts. They've paid attention to the main details that elderly gamers like myself will remember fondly - the sound, the music, the level design - but updated all the core gameplay for the modern, post-Dark Souls ARPG era. Simple things like aerial attacks, a dodge, and telegraph markers make the combat feel far more intricate and enjoyable than the original (although I wonder if the animation canceling on the dodge might be a bit too generous). I sunk a huge number of childhood hours into SD3, and this is probably the best remake I could've hoped for. Very much looking forwards to the full release.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Arkeus posted:

Regardless, I think that buying the steam version means there will be difficulty mods coming in soon.

Most of the infrastructure for a genuinely difficult game is already there, too, given that you're strictly limited to whatever you can fit in your item ring while in combat. A mod that did nothing more than up the damage and decrease the individual amount of each item you can hold in the item ring would probably be more than enough.

Wyvernil posted:

Not sure if they changed the level balancing for the remake, but in the SNES version, I'd usually be in the low level 30s range when going into the God Beast/Benevodon rush. The second class change usually came about midway or 2/3 of the way through fighting them.

Level 45 is a bit high for that point, with that in mind. I'd usually be at the final boss around Level 50-51.

Judging by the boss levels, it seems like they've shifted around the curve somewhat, probably to accommodate the greater customization inherent with stat ups and the additional class. Zable Fahr is 46 in the original game, but they're 56 in the trailer.

Vermain fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 19, 2020

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



I think the one model that hasn't quite translated to my expectations is the werewolf model. They look like a loving Shiba Inus with a muscular wolfman body.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



timp posted:

I know nothing about making video games and even less about netplay. Is co-op the sort of thing that could theoretically get added as DLC or some other update in the future? Or would that be virtually impossible?

There's the slim possibility for local co-op, but online multiplayer is something that you need to have as a basic assumption when you're building your code base if you want to have it work properly.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Zenithe posted:

I think the ability was called underground?

Do you mean Shadow Menace? That was something they could always do, but it was just a targeted attack back in SD3.

Managed to make it through the Sanctuary and I've been having a blast. Elementalist Angela is loving bonkers after you get Explode; I'm nailing even non-vulnerable enemies for something like 450-500 per cast if I'm at max mana. I've personally enjoyed the battle system and revised boss battles a lot, although I can see some people getting turned off by it. On Hard, it's largely a game of micromanagement: you need to quickly shove Chocolate down peoples' throats using characters that aren't being targeted by telegraphs, as well as occasionally swapping to characters to manually handle dodging or repositioning (especially for tracking AoEs). Funnily enough, I think a more isometric view like in the first game would actually help out with this a lot, since it's sometimes easy to lose sight of your other party members and therefore can't see what they're being targeted by.

In a way, it's actually managed to keep the spirit of the original, where there was constant damage coming out that was impossible to avoid, but added in a dimension of player skill with the telegraphs and boss mechanics that keeps combat from being a purely binary stat check. This is in tune with the rest of the game, which is a well-done homage more than a fully faithful recreation, something which elevates it above being a mere graphical upgrade. I'm honestly pretty flabbergasted how good this remake is for being done on what feels like a pauper's budget.

Vermain fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Apr 25, 2020

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Sapozhnik posted:

I hope it posts decent sales figures at least. The original has a special place in my heart.

I'd be surprised if it didn't make its budget back. It feels like an ambitious and well-executed Kickstarter game, honestly; I can't imagine more than, like, $5-6 million went into it.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



ASenileAnimal posted:

angela is so much more fun to play as in this. the skill that lets you leech mp from strong attacks and the shortcuts let you spam spells like crazy

She has a slow start until you get both MP regain abilities and at least one of your second tier spells, at which point she starts rocketing off like crazy. Grand Sage has a flat +25% magic damage ability that makes max MP casts hit for insane numbers. I was getting 1.1k Saint Beams on Zombies in Gusthall.

Inflammatory posted:

having the worst possible luck with ??? seed drops; i'm 4 beasts in and haven't had a single one drop.

Best guess is either that ??? Seeds have a level-proportionate drop rate, or that there's specific enemies with a higher chance to drop them in certain Benevodon areas. I got a shitload doing Gem Valley, which also happened to be my fourth Benevodon.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Arkeus posted:

Am I missing something obvious with the Wind Benevodon? I'm basically unable to really fight against him and he just slowly grinds me to death. I don't have anyone in 3rd class yet though (second benevodon).

Get Molebear Claws and Drake Scales onto everyone and pummel him to death. He was actually the easiest of the Benevodons for me, since there's no movement and no super damaging telegraphs to try and dodge around during the main phase.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Liege gets an ability that boosts the attack of everyone in the party by 7% and can do some truly bonkers healing on its own. It's great into a physical-heavy party.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Poque posted:

I couldn't even understand how Charlotte described herself since there were no subtitles there.

She's the wesident beauwty of Wendew, of course.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



gandlethorpe posted:

The dwarf that opens up the way to Watts sounds like Charlie Day.

All the dwarves sound like old timey prospectors. The voice direction for the English version is a marvel to behold.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Fister Roboto posted:

Also speaking of Chrono Trigger, this remake gives me hope that we'll one day see a CT remake on this level.

Gimme a Chrono Trigger remake and a Bahamut Lagoon remake and I'll die a happy man.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



jokes posted:

This game absolutely rules and I wish there was a harder part to it, since it all seems relatively trivial even on the hardest difficulty if you have Angela in your party.

FF7R's developers realized that they'd need to do something to put a clamp on characters that were previously only gated by time when they switched to a more action-based system, and the ATB Gauge mechanic is a nice compromise that serves that purpose well. ToM's developers either didn't have the same insight, or didn't want to mess with the formula too much (which is always a danger in remakes like this), and the consequence is that anyone with multi-target magic just absolutely dumpsters every single fight in the game. I killed the Dragon Lord in about a minute by hammering my Lucent Beam+ button and having Kevin punch down the break bar when it appeared.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Angela usually gets a fairly solid amount of Spirit, and Light Riesz gets a chain skill that increases the healing done from items by 20%. Slap that on Angela and have her use Poto Oils and you'll never want for healing.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Mr. Neutron posted:

That's disappointing, why would they not make them usable on any difficutly?

The 1 HP ability is there specifically to deal with the item limitation in No Future, since it both restricts Angel's Grail uses and restricts healing item usage, both of which are otherwise necessary to compensate for the occasionally idiotic AI ramming their heads into telegraphs.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Phantasium posted:

https://twitter.com/Seiken_PR/status/1360091890863931393

Remake sold over a million copies worldwide now between all versions.

Not bad for a mid budget remake of a game that never saw an official Western release. That success gives me hope that more of the Japanese-only gems of the SNES era - like Bahamut Lagoon and Live A Live - will get the Trials of Mana treatment in the future.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Blackbelt Bobman posted:

Luna is such a weird elemental. What even is she? She’s like a weird baby angel in a moon pod spaceship with wings. What the hell?

There might be a Japanese tradition I'm unaware of, but depictions of the sun and the moon in medieval European art - especially Byzantine and, later on, Roman Catholic art - often featured them as anthropomorphized figures with visible faces in what appear to be containers or vehicles, so it's probably drawing from that tradition.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Harrow posted:

I was mostly drawn to Light Hawkeye/Dark Riesz because Rogue looked fun and interests me more than either of Hawkeye's Dark classes, though having even more consumables to need to buy seems like potentially a bad idea for a first playthrough? I don't know how tight money is, though. I'd be concerned that needing to buy Poto Oils, sabre items, and buff items would be a real pain, so maybe I'll go Dark Hawk/Light Riesz instead.

Money can be a bit tight if you're constantly updating equipment, but keep in mind that you'll only really need non-Poto Oils for bosses, so it's the only consistent expense. You can also largely get through regular battles and dungeons by just chowing down on Chocolate and saving Poto Oils for when you need group healing during bosses.

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Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



Harrow posted:

Y'know I really don't like this Trials of Mana ??? Seed system for getting class change items and I feel like perhaps that could have been done away with in the remake without losing anything.

I know there are guaranteed ??? Seeds in the Benevodon dungeons but unless I get really lucky, I'm pretty sure I'll be basically done with the story by the time I get the ones I actually want.

What to keep and what to throw away when it comes to remakes like this is always an interesting question, especially since it's not a full-on fresh take on the game like, say, FF7R was. I personally don't have much nostalgia for randomized drops, but I can see an argument to preserve that old school style of grinding to get something you want in the same way that, say, Draque has kept its hosed up NES-style split inventory because that's what people expect from Draque.

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