Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«2 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I always felt like the night market items were almost like cheating since using them invalidates a major dimension of the class choices. If you donít have a healer, you can make up for it with moon saber or single target healing items. Of course anyone can play the game however they want ó for me, ready access to those items makes my choices unimportant and therefore makes the game less fun. Iíd be fine using them as rare consumables, though.

My last play through was with wanderer Hawk, vanadys Lise and necromancer Carly. That made for a really slow, painful mid game, but they stomped the last couple dungeons hilariously quickly. At the start of every fight, Hawk instantly charged Liseís level 3 special, while Lise buffed her strength, then wiped the screen before the enemies could even move. Bosses were a little slower, but even wanderer does competent damage with buffs and debuffs and has access to lunatic to shave 20% HP off the boss right at the start, while Carly makes it impossible to die and can deal solid damage with ghost. Vanadys is no slouch as a physical attacker, either ó easily stronger than wanderer before buffs and debuffs. If crits werenít broken, the party would be even more powerful because of wandererís energy ball. Wanderer is definitely my favorite class. No overwhelming strengths, just this huge bag of weird tricks that can be applied to any situation. The one thing I really hope for from the remake is that they accelerate class changes so you play around 40% of the game in your final classes.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Hawk and Kevin are definitely the most fun characters, Kevin for the huge damage output and Hawk for the amazing versatility. You could probably make something decently synergistic with the boring, Duran, Angela, Charlotte party, but if you play it straight as a swordsman, offensive caster and healer, where everyone is just doing their own thing and not supporting each other, it will be hard to get the delicious, screen-wiping, boss-melting power of other combinations.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Item Getter posted:

You can only store 9 items of a kind in the ring menu but up to 99 of anything in the storage.
If you're not using a healer character you should absolutely stock up on lots of candy, chocolate, faerie walnuts etc. and then take them out of storage when you are running low in the middle of a dungeon. There are a couple of times where you will go through multiple dungeons and bosses without convenient access to a shop in between and it will be a big help.

Especially Poto Oils from the Night Market in Beiser as they are pretty cheap and let you do a full-party heal that scales up depending on the Spirit stat of the character using the item.
In general a lot of the items from the night market are extremely useful though their purpose is not explained very well in the game. Outside of the poto oils, the scales function as buffs and the claws function as saber spells. The specter's eye is useful for removing buffs from a few bosses that cast them.

Playing Secret of Mana after Trials I was kind of shocked that you can only carry 4 of anything and valuable items like faerie walnuts dropped from enemies will disappear if you are already carrying 4.

I actually really preferred the strict item limitations in Secret of Mana. When I played the game as a kid I hated it, but now that I care about difficulty and want some challenge from games, I think itís much better. Trials of Mana (feels really weird to write that, since Iíve only ever played the ROM, but I guess thatís its name now) gives some classes cool tools to generate MP, but theyíre meaningless unless you impose restrictions on yourself because itís impossible to run out of fairy walnuts after a certain point. Effectively unlimited healing removes any tension from easy fights, when otherwise you would have to play more carefully or consider whether you want to spend limited MP to avoid damage. Attrition is a key component of the old school RPG formula, but being able to carry effectively unlimited items in storage completely removes it from the equation.

I suspect, like with the night market items, the developers were worried that some players would create weak class combos that would get screwed, so they left some ways to brute force through the game.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



cirus posted:

Wow I was afraid they would just upgrade the graphics but the music and new gameplay elements look amazing! One of the big problems with the original is that some classes are just way better than others. Looks like they're fixing that!

This was from a few days ago, but I thought class balance was actually very good, overall. Which classes did you think suffered? I certainly haven't played every class, but even the bad ones, like Duran's paladin, still have a lot to contribute (healing and a tier 3 full screen tech) to a well built team. For example, taken individually, vanadis looks bad and wanderer looks bad, but vanadis and wanderer together instantly kill every enemy except for bosses almost before they can even move. There are certainly balance problems in the game, like Kevin's tier-1 tech being far more powerful than it has any right to be, but I think every final class can do really well if it's used in the right team. Some of the tier 2 classes are clearly worse, though. Wanderer, for example, is one of my favorite designs, thematically and practically, in any class based system, but ranger is just miserable compared to ninja.

Actually, the bugs in the original mostly helped game balance. Duran's light classes got screwed, but Hawk and Kevin were already on the edge of overpowered, and if things like critical hits, dex and energy ball worked, they would be insane.

Magitek posted:

Man, you can say that again. Playing with Angela was seriously tedious IIRC. Do we know if the nuke/summon spell animations are becoming less disruptive in the remake?

I seriously hope so, magic was so much more of a pain to use than attacking that my casters always performed way below their potential.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Folt The Bolt posted:

Wanderer I believe also has a spell that deals about the same damage as Angela's Lv. 3 spells for practically no MP cost. (Just so long as you, you know, don't cast it on undead creatures.)

Generally, I feel Hawkeye's Light class, and Carlie's Dark class straight up trades midgame power in exchange for lategame power (AKA when you class change to your final class).

I think that must be rogue, which is attack spell oriented class for Hawkeye. I've never actually played that one, though, so I can't say how good the spells are. Wanderer has very limited damage options, though lunatic is great against bosses. The main draw is aura wave, lunatic, effectively unlimited MP, and a big bag of fun, if not extremely effective tricks. I guess there's half vanish, too, for damage, but it doesn't work on bosses and sleep flower or aura wave seem like better tools against regular enemies.

I would agree light Hawkeye and dark Carlie trade midgame for lategame power, but it's a lovely trade. Their final light and dark classes respectively are also no jokes. In fact, even though it's worlds better than ranger except in a few team compositions, wanderer is still also almost certainly Hawkeye's weakest class. And the final class change comes so late that the trade really doesn't seem worth it at all.

I wonder how important healing will be in the remake. It would be kind of fun to go for an all out offensive party if you could manage without healing.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Mega64 posted:

I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder.

She was solidly average at everything in the original but managed to be a powerful support character who could still take a hit and contribute damage in the original. Until class change, though, she was just a crappier Duran. In this one she feels even worse off because her attack animations seem much less useful than Duranís. Hawk is weaker than Kevin, but at least feels more agile by comparison.

After playing through the demo three times, here are my thoughts:

-I donít feel the controls are clunky at all except for the camera, which does suck, but not more so than in a lot of action games.

-Kevin, Hawkeye and Duran are all fun to play and feel quite distinct. Iíll probably play through again to get a better sense of Duranís gameplay, since he was the first character I played. Riesz feels a fair bit weaker than the guys and like her spear should have more reach. Itís pretty weird that the dagger character is best at keeping his distance and attacking with with long reach, but the gameplay and animations sell it. Kevin is just disgustingly strong, but that was true in the original as well, and he overall gets the least from class change. He and Hawkeye are both really fast and fluid, but in different ways. Itís very good.

-The voice acting is hilariously terrible. I donít know whether to laugh or cry. New Yorker Charlotte perfectly encapsulates this. The writing in the original game was already pretty bad, and this makes it much worse.

-Itís way, way too easy, even on hard. Itís trivial to avoid all damage against the boss just by staying behind it. Some of the enemy compositions have the potential to be tough, if damage were much higher, though. Hopefully this is just an issue with the demo.

-I dislike changing the techniques from a per-battle resource to a strategic, slow filling resource. I understand why they did that, but itís less satisfying.

-I really appreciate how closely the graphics and sound stick to the original.

-Some of the character designs are really embarrassing. I wish the women would put on some more clothes.

-Overall the game is not perfect, but the demo feels like as good a remake as anyone could hope for. Itís extremely faithful to the original (including faithfully recreating many of the original gameís weaknesses), but translates it beautifully to modern gameplay while adding depth where the original gameís play was shallow.

-All in all, I love it.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Sapozhnik posted:

I noticed a few goblins in the demo had some hexagon barrier that give them unbreakable poise until the barrier is broken.

In general enemies in Trials don't stagger easily, so you have to unlearn some ARPG habits to get into the swing of things. Since you can't really stunlock enemies unless your AI partners happen to be focusing their attacks, a good approach ime is to hit them with light attacks until they go to counter, jump over their counter, then hit strong attack to do a diving attack, which will usually knock them down. If an enemy's back is turned to you then you can also do a weak-into-strong combo to knock down everything in the immediate vicinity.

Hawkeyeís strong attack is fast enough and has enough reach that you can reliably use it without being hit. Itís great charged up, too. Kevinís light attack out of running is a slide with amazing reach, and his strong attack combo out of it is quite fast, so he can combo and knock down most of the demo enemies without letting them react. Otherwise jabbing with light attacks and baiting counters seems to be the best strategy. Most of the enemies seem to pause for a bit after attacking, so if you dodge an attack, you can counter it with a combo. The zombies seemed much harder to stagger than other enemies, and there were some shielded enemies too, so itís not unreasonable to expect more diversity to combat later, even not taking magic into account.

Is it confirmed that class changing will change attack chains? That could really add a lot of diversity beyond what the class system already adds.

I have faith that the game has the potential to be sufficiently challenging if the enemies do enough damage. The fight with the four goblins in the cavern can be pretty hectic if youíre trying to avoid getting hit, and could be tough if those axes were actually threatening. Of course consumables will almost certainly break the difficulty curve no matter what, but thatís par for the course.

That starlancer skill tree is a little worrying, though without knowing how many training points weíll be getting itís impossible to know how limiting that will be. Itís possible that weíll be able to max out all stats and get all the skills pretty naturally by the end of the game. Still, my initial reaction is that the design team thought Kevin wasnít overpowered enough in the original. Since his dark classes only get one spell, they go pick that up then spend the rest of the time strictly building strength and stamina (or luck, if crits are a solid way of increasing damage). I think the biggest takeaway from that tree, though, is that weíre likely going to be able to max out all stats in one class by the end of the game. In fact, we might be expected to use respec to level up in multiple different classes for more stat boosts and chain abilities.

I really want to bring Charlotte for necromancer, but I donít know if I can do it. I think Iíll just have to mute the voices or set the audio to Japanese no matter what, though.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Folt The Bolt posted:

Some speculations (and some confirmed things)

Atk: Strength + Weapon bonus (Likely determines most of your physical attacks like normal attacks, power attacks, charge attacks, and class strikes)
Def: Stamina + Equipment bonus (Defends against anything that is physical attacks)
Mgc Atk: Intellect + Weapon bonus (Determines the power of offensive spells)
Mgc Def: Spirit + Equipment bonus (Determines your defense against offensive spells)
Luck (Determines how often you crit + Possibly item drops + the power of Trap/Projectile spells AKA most of Hawkeye's spells)

In addition, Spirit also determines how strong magical healing is.


You have about 60 points at Lv. 45. I'd say we should be able to get enough points to comfortably max out at least three of your stat trees (totaling about 99 points) and dip a fair amount into one other at Lv. 99, but I don't think Star Lancer Riesz can be everything at once without a fair amount of sacrifices: The Star Lancer spells and upgrades to those spells lie on the Intellect and Spirit paths, but the stat upgrades she can get pushes her towards attacking physically since Star Lancer gives the most bonuses to her physical stats and Riesz's Intellect is her worst ranked stat coupled with unimpressive boosts to that stat as a Star Lancer should you decide to fully invest in training her Intellect.

I think most Star Lancer players will invest heavily into the Spirit tree to nab the Stat boost spells and the upgrades and about as much into Intellect as they can to get Seraph for the silence, then finally pump as many points as they can into Strength so that she'll be able to maximize her physical damage, or into Stamina to keep her durable. At this point, Riesz will have to sacrifice physical attack or her physical defense if she wants to max her potential in either of them (and to get the passive abilities present in those trees), or cut her potential in both to gain as much as she can from both trees.

And unless her chain abilities on the Luck tree are really good (or you're running certain teams that benefit more from those abilities enough to make the STR or STA tree a lower priority), she should put as few ability points as possible into the Luck tree.

And yes, class changing will expand upon your characters' combos. This has a lot to say for Riesz since her normal attacks are... probably the worst of the entire cast right now.

Thanks for the detailed answer. Did spirit determine the power of summons and holy damage spells in the original or was that a mistake in some of the guides? Also are there some articles or text resources on spoiled mechanics so far, or another forum somewhere with good information? I want to know more, but I have no patience for videos.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I think most dark classes had slightly stronger weapons, but the main thing distinguishing classes damage was their strength score. Some characters ended up with more damage in their light classes, most notably Riesz, whose strongest attacker was Vanadis, the light/light class.

I broke down and watched a video and the stat system seems pretty bad. Kevin probably has it easy, but it looks like a nightmare for Angela. Either she respecs after every dungeon to pick up the next ďcorrectĒ element, or she spreads her stats all over everywhere and never gets to boost int to see more damage from her spells.

The playerís team composition in the video annoyed me. Either Kevin should have been warrior monk to support Angela with leaf saber, or Riesz should have been vanadis to get benefit from Kevinís aura wave. Of course thatís based on the original, but the player seemed to go with the thinking ďa fighter, a mage and a support caster is a balanced teamĒ without actually taking into consideration what the classes are specifically doing to support each other.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Torrannor posted:

We'll see how this shakes out, but this complexity/difficulty in skilling looks like another welcome change from the total brainlessness of allocating SD3's stat points on level up.

Agreed that weíll have to see how it plays out. Complexity is only good if it actually increases the number of viable, interesting choices. Starlancer seems fairly okay. You pump spirit to pick up your buffs, then go for either your summon, damage or defense. But Angela looks like she encourages constant respeccing for the elementally themed dungeons, which is really annoying.

gandlethorpe posted:

I hope the spells get rebalanced so that nothing is completely worthless. I'm already a little regretful about my decision to go light with Hawkeye in my pre-remake-release run

Ranger is way weaker than ninja, but rogue is very strong on a magic focused team. Wanderer is amazing if you have someone who can benefit from aura wave. Otherwise itís a lot of fun, but not strong enough at any one thing to be really good. If energy ball worked, it would be a much stronger and more interesting class. I think ranger was supposed to be balanced against ninja by having access to a full screen tech, but the tech balance was completely broken and the tier 1 was always better no matter what.

Depending on how the abilities are spread out, ranger looks like it has the potential to be much better this time, since luck scales the damage of both your spells and melee, while the dark classes are unlikely to be able to be good at both (but will get debuffs to compensate).

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Detective No. 27 posted:

Now I want Chrono Trigger to get this treatment.

Since Chrono Trigger is the perfect embodiment of 90ís snes rpg charm, I would absolutely love that, but I think it could never happen.

Part of what I think is so charming about the Trials demo is how unpretentious it is. The game was 90ís anime schlock with, for its time, good combat, an impressively deep strategic layer and great class design, and the remake is trying to reproduce exactly that, nothing more and nothing less. And it works because the original was a niche game with a lot of bold ideas that were ahead of its time. Because the original audience was small, the scope of the remake can be relatively small. On the other hand, because the original game tried bold ideas that translate to modern games well, the remake can expand on those ideas fairly organically without betraying the original design.

A full remake of Chrono Trigger would attract a lot of press and a lot of high expectations. At the same time, the original game was extremely simple, so a lot of systems would have to be updated for the modern era. I doubt Square Enix could escape making a Chrono Trigger remake that changes the spirit and charm of the original.

Still, I hope Trials of Mana does really well and inspires more similar efforts to update the graphics and gameplay of 90s jrpgs to the modern era without all the pretense and spectacle of their modern descendants.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Probably going for Hawkeye, Riesz and Carlie, even though Carlie is going to drive me nuts. In the original this had stat ups, stat downs, solid magic damage through necromancer, an on-demand screen wipe from wanderer and vanadys, great utility from wanderer and decent melee damage. I tried to build a team to maximize wanderer's strengths without Byzel items and in the original I think this is as well as you can do.

Kevin and Duran seem fun enough to play to be worth their own playthroughs as a main character, but I am a little tempted to bring Duran as support instead of Carlie, since provoke and enigma together should make it pretty easy to keep Hawkeye behind enemies so he can get crits. Duran brings nothing to support Hawkeye's magic, though, and either brings healing or melee support, but not both, while Carlie does everything.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...




Three new spirits are being added to the spirit board in Smash Ultimate to commemorate the launch of the remake of SD3? My Japanese sucks, but thatís what I make out of that.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Yeah, golden road up to the second boss still felt quite easy (on hard) but not sleepwalking easy like the demo. The golems hit like trucks, but their attacks were easy to avoid and I was nowhere close to running out of healing for the AI. I thought it was at least enough to be engaging.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I find Riesz to be really, really awful in Japanese. The actress voices her lines with this horribly exaggerated breathless earnestness that I canít stand. Charlotte is pretty bad in Japanese too, but more tolerable than in English (and maybe better than Japanese Riesz).

What is the state of datamined information so far? I saw a complete list of abilities, but do we know what passives are available for each specific class?

Consumables seem really strong. I threw a handaxe at a random enemy on the golden road (lvl. 13 hawkeye, +10 str, +10 luck) and did 360 or so damage when my normal attacks hit for around 40.

Also, you seem to level up really fast in this, especially if you donít avoid fights and explore thoroughly.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Erpy posted:

That was honestly the one thing I had been hoping they'd rebalance a bit.

Vanadys was absurdly, brokenly good in the original paired with Godhand or Wanderer. You could get a similar effect with Starlancer, but youíd have to give up multitarget healing for another class with a full screen tier 3 technique.

For most parties Vanadys was much weaker, though. I donít know if we really have enough information yet to determine whether thatís changed.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I forgot to ask if anyone has noticed: are combo finishers normalized across different classes or do they do they have different total multipliers? Hawkeyeís light-light-heavy combo seems really strong, but I donít know if thatís just because it makes a bunch of numbers pop up.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Fister Roboto posted:

Serious protip: Enigma is a really good passive for casters. It makes enemies just flat out ignore them most of the time, so you can just sit back and nuke. Plus it makes it easier to get the 10% extra XP for not taking damage.

Itís very good for Hawkeye too, even in melee. Ranger also gets a passive for extra damage against enemies that are targeting another character. Duran as a light class with provoke and two characters with enigma might be a really good strategy.

Ranger looks so much worse than Ninja on paper, again true to the original. His spells are way weaker and donít have debuffs and are split between luck and int. He does get melee damage passives that Ninja lacks, but, on paper they seem pretty situational.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Arkeus posted:

Is there any reason to pick Light Hawk?

In the original, dark hawk was a lot more versatile and provided debuffs to boost his own damage with both spells and attacks, so he fit easily into more teams. Light hawk (after Ranger, which just sucked) was very good too, but harder to use. Rogue had a good range of top-tier spells, effectively infinite MP and excellent melee. But he didnít offer support and needed a party built around his strengths to reach maximum potential. Wanderer was similar, though support focused in weird ways that typically didnít directly increase your damage, but could still be completely amazing in the right situations or on the right team.

I donít think anyone knows perfectly how they compare in the remake. Ranger seems more melee focused, while ninja is more casting focused, but I donít really know how either play in practice.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



sudonim posted:

I can't believe this game has only been out a day and people are already in their 2nd class change. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for some kind soul from the internet to provide a skills breakdown.

For those of you grinding this game, are you finding the remake classes have the same general utility as in the original? Like light Charlotte has sabres while dark Charlotte has summons & stat downs, things like that. Any notable changes or surprises?

Iím still only a little ways in after the first class change, but it seems like techniques and spells are mostly the same (e.g. rangers level 2 technique is AoE while ninjaís is single target and they both do about the same amount of damage). But the power, function and utility of some spells are different, the stat differences between classes has changed and skill trees are much more complex and have a lot of pretty important, game-changing passives.

For example, in the original, Rieszís light classes had better attack than dark while Hawkeyeís Dark classes had better attack than light. Thatís now exactly the opposite (at least after the first class change). Rune maiden gets slightly higher strength than valkyrie while ranger gets a decent chunk more than ninja. Rangers traps were completely worthless in the original, but do solid damage now, at least right after unlocking them.

So far, I would suspect that most classes will be fairly similar, but itís possible one class could be built in more than one direction now, and I wouldnít be surprised if certain classes, and especially certain team compositions, ended up playing radically differently.

On another topic, I just beat Zehnoa (sp? the big furnace) and it was a complete motherfucker. I barely scraped by on hard and ended up using all of my cups of wishes and quite a few fairy walnuts. So far the first legitimately hard fight, though I certainly wasnít able to sleep through the next one.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



ultrachrist posted:

When you can choose to go to fire or ice land, ice actually comes first. I did fire first and the ice land enemies were lower level than the guys in the desert.

I'm lv 30ish and not sure where to put valkyrie Reisz' (or even Hawkeye's) points. I have the buffs and none of the other trees seem particular good. Just passives I probably wouldn't equip. This might be because I don't know what the base stats even do.

Riesz gets some surprisingly good skills in luck. If you have Hawkeye on the same team, giving him magic smash means heís almost guaranteed to land the debuff quickly because of his high luck and multiple quick hits on the light, light strong combo, especially with pinpoint. Iím at level 23 or so with 9 spirit for spell access, 9 luck for magic smash and the rest in str(stamina would probably be better, since sheís controlled by the AI, but I want the attack up aura).

Hawkeye, light or dark, wants to go all in on luck and int right away (or maybe stop at 12, +5 int does nothing for light hawk that I can see), then, again, pick up cheap stat-ups in whatever you feel you need the most.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I havenít had much time to play, so Iím still a good ways away from the third class, but people are saying that a seedís result is determined at the time itís spawned. So you have to save, pick up a seed, sprout it, then reload and go get it again if you donít like the result.

What Iíve read about the seeds seems quite disappointing, honestly, since it seems like even with a faster leveling curve, youíre still stuck waiting forever for the classes you want unless youíre really lucky.

How have peopleís experiences been with getting class change items? Iíve seen people recommend the queen bees in the forest area, but Iíve also seen others say the drop rate is extremely low. Iíve also seen a recommendation for the slimes in earth area, and another person follow up saying they have a good drop rate even done as the first benevedon dungeon and without a fully upgraded pot.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



How likely is this kind of low-mid budget jrpg to get balance changes or extra features in patches post-release? It would be great if we could choose what carries over into new game plus or got (a couple) higher difficulty modes.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Is anyone playing Riesz as a Vanadys? Iím wondering if Freya is actually worth it compared to CS spam. The spell power is huge, but so is the MP cost, and with nature aura from Hawkeye and all the CS gauge passives, I wonder if Iíd be better off just constantly attacking.

Does any other class have access to Oracle? That poo poo is completely bonkers ó every stat up + lunar radiance (HP boost) on the whole team any time you use any class strike with that character, and itís a chain ability. What sucks is that it makes Nomadís special passive, which otherwise would be really good, seem completely pointless. I picked Hawkeye as my main character and Iíve switched to controlling Riesz to better manage her CS gauge.

Does anyone know exactly what extra potent and random buff do? They also seem completely pointless when I can apply all of Rieszís status buffs at once to the whole team at any point. Do they work with more than just Rieszís status buffs (I.E can I give Hawkeye Extra Potent?)

Edit: Oracle is weird. It seems to only work for the whole team the first time itís used, then only applies to the user. I donít know whether or not thatís a bug.

Also, lightgazer is such a pain. Not even that hard, but just a big slog.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 13:22 on May 2, 2020

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Considering how trivial it is to heal between fights, Rieszí healing is mostly pointless. I havenít tried Vanadysí regen passive, but 1% hp per 10 seconds seems useless. But I think youíll be fine without a healer. Inventory management and keeping topped up between fights is trivial compared to the original game and with a strong team itís very unlikely youíll run out of healing items during fights.

For people wanting to get into the 3rd class ASAP, the trick I used was to scum the ??? seed chests near a save point, then magic rope out and sprout the seed. Reset if itís not what you want and go get the seed from the chest again. There are chests near save points in the snowfields, the shimmering ruins and chartmoon tower, though you have to run through the whole dungeon to get to them in the case of the ruins and the tower. Thereís a video on YouTube showing the exact locations of the chests.

Am I missing some way to see what buffs are on a character other than the icons over their portrait? Itís frustrating that I have six buffs that all occupy the same space and I can never tell what I need to reapply.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



jokes posted:

I can't imagine a bad party comp to be quite honest.

I finally got into the post game with my favorite team from the original game, Nomad, Vanadys and Necromancer. The last boss went down fast, but overall itís not very good.

Nomad and Vanadys both have strong points, and some synergy, but are also pretty awkward. Vanadys has the amazing Oracle chain ability, that applies all stat ups + an hp boost to the whole team the first time a user uses a class strike, then applies them only to the user on every subsequent use. Riesz has strong class strikes all around and is good at building the CS gauge quickly, but extra potent and/or random buff mean she actually really prefers to put Oracle on someone else, the AI is terrible at managing the CS gauge and she doesnít really have the ability to do amazing damage herself even with CS spam. She probably has a lot of potential with Kevinís Light/Light and a strong melee support class like Edelfrei or Sage, though.

Nomad is really a mixed bag. His defensive spells, already quite situational in the original game, are now almost completely useless. Lunatique is still good, presumably, though you canít see the effect. Nature aura is very strong on Vanadys, but Vanadys canít use it to great effect by herself. Poison Bubble is quite strong. The mechanics of some fights seem to really reward casting and Poison Bubble is cheap, has good AoE and deals decent damage. Critical Damage, Pinpoint 2 and Moon Energy also provide solid support to both spells and melee (which, contrary to the original, is pretty decent). He has a moderately good basis for both melee and spell damage, but can only get halfway there with either on his own. His selling point is support, but thatís largely nonfunctional.

The class I really regret bringing, though, now that I know what all the skill trees look like, is Necromancer. The healing is very nice, but her summons are awkward to manage in combat and decent, but not great. Poison Bubble does more damage (because of crits) is cheaper and has better AoE). She has pretty decent strength, but nothing else really to support good melee damage. And black curse is nowhere near as good as it is in the original because stat downs are much easier to come by. Edelfrei would dramatically improve my melee damage and would make casting smoother too, while Warrior Monk would keep the healing while also providing better support for both casting and melee.

Maybe if I had gone with Edelfrei it would be a good team, but as it is, nobody does amazing damage by themselves and nobody supports anyone elseís damage to a really appreciable extent.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Mr. Locke posted:

Also, it's an awful shame how after this game has done a lot to rehabilitate SD3's 'bad' classes like Light Duran and Dark Angela, Light and Light/Light Hawkeye are still hot garbage. At least Rogue's good now!

Nomad is definitely not top-tier, but I donít think he deserves the bad rap that he gets either. Sure, a lot of his skill set is useless, but the parts that work actually work pretty well. Judging by skills, since I donít know the raw stat values of all the classes, heís the best set up to deal melee damage of any of Hawkeyeís classes because of Pinpoint 2, Moon Energy and Critical Damage. Hawkeye will never be able to compete with Duran or Kevin in melee, but Nomad supports those classes with Attack Up All 2 and does solid damage himself.

Itís easy to look at Poison Bubble and think it sucks compared to Grumpkin and the Rogue kit, but it has some solid advantages. Since itís a spell, rather than a trap, it can be boosted with stat manipulation spells. It has reasonable AoE, is pretty cheap, benefits from Nomadís crit bonuses and triggers Special Effect on itís own damage. As long as normal enemies arenít shielded or immune, Nomad can simply tear them to pieces with spell spam.

If Lunatique works like in the original, Nomad also accounts for 20% of your teamís damage against bosses automatically.

The problem is that while he has versatile options against bosses and normal encounters, heís not overwhelmingly strong at any one thing and requires support from other characters to shine while only contributing niche support himself. I still think Nomad could be very good on the right team, though, particularly depending on Nature Auraís interaction with certain passives.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Oo Koo posted:

Also, crystalline is actually pretty cool if you bind it to a hotkey, and have some way to generate enough mp to spam it. It has a short enough cast time that you can use it as an active parry with a practically infinite timing window.

It's basically "masterful kill" from dragon's dogma, that allows you to move and fight while waiting for the enemy attack to land, but doesn't deal damage on it's own. Wall is probably even better with it's damage reflection when used like this, but I don't have enough system mastery regarding enemy attacks to be able to reliably identify which enemies/attacks outside of the literal wizard enemies it would effective to use against.

Though my first team with hawkeye in it was on my new game+ playthrough, so I was feeding my crystalline spam fueled invulnerability with obsidian power. As such, I don't know how viable that is with just the less op mana recovery tools the game gives you.

Yeah, I was actually just thinking that Wall and Crystalline are probably better than Iím giving them credit for being if youíre good at using them. I did find I had trouble with MP on Nomad on a regular playthrough, though, even just mostly using Nature Aura, Moon Energy and Poison Bubble. Even with MP Move Saver, he needs some other kind of MP support to be able to go nuts with his spells. I think Nomad, Warrior Monk or Edelfrei (especially Edelfrei) and any Riesz could make a really good team and Iíll probably try that out at some point. Now Iím doing Kevin, Duran and Riesz, aiming for Divine Fist, Edelfrei and Vanadys and am really enjoying how disgustingly strong Kevin is.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Folt The Bolt posted:

I don't think the HP percent Lunar spells work against bosses given my own testing, but yes; Nomad's Crit buff spell, ability to easily set up crits (even for itself) and very good ability synergy, probably makes it the third best class among Hawkeye's classes this time around (the best being Ninja Master and Rogue for AoE/debuff and pure DPS).

Yeah, I actually bothered to use lunatique against a normal enemy and it applies a debuff icon, which it doesnít against bosses. That just canít be intentional. Half Vanish (I canít remember the new English name) is already incredibly niche and is more than twice as strong. Even if it allows you to trigger status effect related abilities, it would basically never be worth it.

Edit: I can confirm that Crystalline and Wall are quite nice on shortcuts. Theyíre quick to apply and help you ignore a lot of bullshit. MP is not an issue with the MP regen chain abilities the game hands out to you going into the post game.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 14:51 on May 4, 2020

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Mr. Locke posted:

To be fair, all of that is largely a NG+ problem. In a normal game, the system works out pretty good and adds a real element to team building, trying to figure out the best ways to earn and stack abilities across characters. NG+ ability stacking gets silly but I'm not gonna hold the fact that by the time you get to your final playthrough you only have so many arms to hold ALL THESE GUNS that just exist to go even further beyond. You're not going to have MP 0 or 200% CS at fight start for any significant part of Playthrough 1 to be fretting space for them in the middle of an 6 DPS modifier pileup.

Thatís my opinion as well. The systems completely break down in NG+ on more than one level, but thatís the fault of NG+ not being designed to accommodate them.

Mr. Locke posted:

If there's any post-release support for Trials (like, any at all) maybe they'll add a new difficulty intended to be played through with NG+ abilities, but even then it'd be pretty hard to balance that with any kind of reasonable success since poo poo like Unlimited Tier 3 Elemental Spells regardless of party and 300% Experience exist and would break any curve not built specifically around them.

I think they could just block inheritance of the silliest chain abilities and prevent weak enemies from giving experience (ideally on a curve). Balancing the game to be harder in general without turning it into a slog for most parties or making the AI a horrible liability wonít be trivial, though, even before NG+.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Yeah, they really shouldnít have locked the 3rd tier classes behind an item. Just gating it to level and making it so you can only do it at the sanctuary is enough. Of course, that wouldnít really be in the spirit of the remake.

I loved the original and have been looking forward to this game a lot and itís exceeded pretty much all my expectations. Reviews were pretty average, but I hope it is selling very well. Buzz in the community, at least, seems pretty positive.

I bought the game on Switch, but Iím probably going to buy it again on Steam at some point for mods. Iíve even thought about getting it now to see if I could take a crack at modding it myself, but Iím broke and am not super technically proficient, so that might be too tedious before other people have figured out how to get into the gameís files and change things.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



jokes posted:

I built Duran to be tankier but it just ended up where the other two died to aoe damage and heíd Rez them. Then I built him to be a healer but heíd still Rez the other two. Then I built everyone to be 100% damage all the time, and everyone stopped dying because there was nothing left to stop them.

The best defense is an absurd offense, and bringing a healer is to get a buffer for if you run out of healing items. Theyíre cheap as hell! If you build your dudes right theyíll probably kill the boss before you run out of cups of wishes to spam.

Iím on my second play through, just reached the sanctuary (no NG+) with a much more offense focused team (Monk, Gladiator, Valkyrie, good, but not an optimal mid-game melee team) and I feel way stronger. I never bother with Monkís Heal Light and I never even come close to running out of healing items. I only heal with items, but I have more money because I never need to buy walnuts. Charlotteís lack of offense and support (I had her in her dark class) meant I actually took more damage than I would without a healer. The gap between offensive and defensive classes is way too big.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Just want to point out that debuffs arenít nearly as rare in this game as the original, since a lot of characters have passives with on-crit procs that trigger debuffs. Light Duran has attack down, dark Duran and all of Kevinís classes get defense down, Valkyrie gets magic down and Starlancer gets both attack down and magic down. If youíre not using the (game balance destroying) consumables, buffs are actually harder to find, though Light Kevin and all of Duranís classes can buff their own attack. Otherwise you need light Riesz for reliable access to buffs.

The crit skills arenít reliable against normal enemies, but combined with Rieszí pinpoint chain ability, they proc quickly against bosses, which is where theyíre really valuable. So dark Riesz almost always brings less utility than light Riesz. On the other hand, I suspect Dragon Master, at least, could actually be a pretty serious damage dealer, which Rieszí light classes struggle to do.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Blackbelt Bobman posted:

I got my guys to lv 99 and Black Rabite was still a pain in the rear end, great boss would fight again.

Iím excited to start my second playthrough my Iím gonna take a break.

By the way, what would the worst possible team be? Iím thinking:

Vandais Reisz
Nomad Hawkeye
Duelist Duran

Those seem like the worst classes, from what I can gather.

That wouldnít be that bad, I donít think. Nomad and Vanadys arenít nearly as bad as some people say. Duelist is completely inferior to Edelfrei on paper (rage and wound might be better in practice than Iím giving them credit for) but will still be able to hit 5 different elemental weaknesses with very high melee damage.

I agree with the person who said a team that stacks a bunch of redundant healers would probably be the worst.

Mr. Locke posted:

Almost certainly it'd be Team No DPS- Light/Dark Duran, Light/Dark Rieze, and Light/Light Charlotte. At least Nomad Hawkeye and Duelist Duran can hit stuff ok, and Vandis Rieze's summon is a fair shot better then Star Lancer's. (I am... less and less enarmored with Star Lancer as it proves to be pretty drat useless outside being buff spells on a stick. Certainty wouldn't find it worth taking to enhance Liege Duran and High Cleric Charlotte.)

What is the power on Seraph? Star Lancer gets mor int, but Iíve only taken Vanadys, so I donít know the differences.

I scoff at the tier list or commentary that put Star Lancer as Rieszí best class and Vanadys as by far the worst. Star Lancer is the better buffer, but thatís pretty much all she has. If you set Vanadys up properly sheís not that much worse at buffing, but gets better defense and a very solid CS3 with good CS gauge generation.

Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 7, 2020

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Mr. Locke posted:

Both Freya and Seraph are base 458, but I'd much rather get small then silence as a secondary effect. As far as I can tell, the only stronger one is Jorm on Dark/Light at 525. (Though further backed by Dark classes getting CS for summons.)

Does small still stop enemies from giving experience? I just assumed it still does without checking.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Mr. Locke posted:

That I honestly don't know.


Yeah. Rieze was REALLY important in original SD3 because she was a massive boost to your survivability in a game that could just unavoidably truck your entire party out of nowhere in even random fights. In Trials Remake, her better utility is her damage boosting effects, and while it's nice most characters still get a lot from equipping damage-enhancing or CS-generating skills, and even hard-to-avoid attacks rarely hit you the same way they did in original SD3 barring failing the mechanics-generating attacks on later bosses.

It would probably be better if Light Rieze had ANY personal offensive utility besides her summons, but Star Lancer is limited entirely to Victory CS Boost I, a lousy 5% on enemy kill, while Vandis only adds in her own version of Damage CS Boost III... on a much frailer character then Paladin Duran with no mechanic to exploit it like Guard for Duran. Albut at least she can give herself a full stack of buffs for free when performing any CS, so that's something? (Although Oracle is much better gifted to another character who actually generates CS. Like aaaanyone else. Anyone at all. Except maybe Angela.)

Valkyrie gets Army of One as itís locked ability (or whatever the name for the innate class passives is), which gives 1% CS gauge every time you damage an enemy. It stacks up pretty fast if you control Riesz, especially if you have someone with Nature Aura. Her strength is pretty high also, higher than Duranís if she fills out her strength tree. She lacks damage skills herself in her light classes, but can contribute pretty decently if you pair her with someone with sabers.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Melomane Mallet posted:

Tell me more about this D/L/D party: is there a better 3rd class for each or is it a six of one, half dozen of the other choice? In the snes game, I used Kevin all of once and Charlotte never, so I have little/no idea of what to expect from them.


My interest in playing support has been mainly making sure Riesz casts Strength+ and Duran has the appropriate saber up (Hawkeye's AI has been pretty good in terms of debuffs). How much would I (comparably) need to do in terms of support for L!Kevin?

I played a game with D/L Charlotte and didnít like her at all. Her damage with summons was decent, but not great, healing was mostly irrelevant and her support was minimal. She gets good strength, but no good way to use it. I would play D/D Kevin, L/L Charlotte and any Angela. The team doesnít support Angela really, but sheíll probably be fine anyway. Kevin benefits a lot from sabers and Attack Saber 2.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



I think Warrior Monk could be a really good hybrid support character on a team with MP hungry characters with good melee, like Nomad or Rogue. And Kevin is still Kevin, so heís going to be doing a lot of damage regardless. Unfortunately healing just doesnít really seem very important compared to just doing more damage.

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



Sacrificial Toast posted:

All magic-ish things are Int, including Jutsus, Summons, and Nomad spells. All traps and thrown items are Luck. Normal attacks are strength. Class Strikes are your combined Attack and Magic Attack.

I have so many questions regarding stats.

What about Nightbladeís abilities? I assume they scale with luck, since theyíre on the luck tree, but particularly black rain seems more magic-ish.

I noticed Class Strikes scale with int, are they also affected by Magic Up buffs? What defense do they target?

What defense do traps target? I didnít notice their damage increasing substantially with either defense down or magic down on a target.

I wonder if all buffs and debuffs of the same type are created equal. Obviously Riesz can upgrade her buffs and debuffs, but I wonder if the defense down from Broken Lines is the same as from Black Curse.

Eventually Iím just going to buy the PC version and try to figure things out.

One weird thing Iíve noticed ó In my first play through, Vanadysí Oracle buffed the whole team, but only on the first use. In my second play through it doesnít. Is that an interaction with Nomad (random buff on the whole team at the start of battle) and if so, is it a bug? Has anyone else had this happen?

I regret taking Vanadys instead of Dragon Master on my Kevin, Duran, Riesz game. I didnít realize she could buff herself as well, that pressure point is just a generic attack up buff now that works in wolf form or that Duran would get access to his own attack up buff from an NPC chain ability. Divine Fist kills everything so fast that the only point of the allies seems to be to buff Kevin, but Duran is really, really good at that, while Vanadys is just sort of there for the show.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 27, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...



EponymousMrYar posted:

A stat tweak isn't exactly the most inspired Hard Mode, although 2x health is a good baseline to start normal enemies on.

Itís not even a targeted stat tweak, just increasing the stats of all monsters in the game by the same amounts. Early game enemies donít need nearly as much of a boost as enemies after getting access to class 3, and for those 2x health and more defense might still not be enough for the strongest party compositions.

Of course, itís probably just a proof of concept at this point. Hopefully people will be able to do more in the future.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«2 »